Questions & Mysteries Being specialist on one particular haki = strongest on that one particular haki?

[Fn Lucci]

Knowing what he's talking about would lead him to instantly recreate a recipe. In order to know what he's talking about, he has to be informed. How would he recognize something he's never experienced, and why haven't you found your pre timeskip example of the same yet?

You ask for proof of him learning or spending his time, but we didn't see much of any Straw Hat across the two year gap. They go right into the reunion from the start, so all we have are results. Not like we sat there and watched Zoro learn CoO or Chopper learn Kung Fu. Sanji was surrounded by cooking martial artists, pretty easy math. It must take a lot of work to go so far around the simplest idea and suggest that he went there and didn't get help with fighting while also not spending his time cooking.

 

[OEKaneki]

If they are "close enough" in level (more comparing him to G2/G3/base because Gear 4 is "harmonized" Haki not stronger), yes. I believe Zoro's CoA > Luffy's CoA, and Sanji's CoO > Luffy's CoO. That is until Luffy got FS and advanced CoA.


Luffy complimented both Katakuri's CoA and Cracker's CoA. Oda never complimented Luffy's Haki. In fact he did the opposite.

Gear 4's "strength" came from harmonizing Haki and DF. It's like Enel. Enel's CoO wasn't great NATURALLY, but when he harmonized with his DF, it became deadly.

Luffy's "leap" over Zoro and Sanji was because of his harmonization to achieve symbiosis of Gear 4, not his Haki.

This is actual nonsense. Luffy is only able to utilize Gear 4 because of his proficiency in CoA. His skill with it allows him to manipulate his body to be able to use Gear 4. He was far more proficient with CoA than Zoro was, and far more proficient at CoO than Sanji. His proficiency with it didn’t change from one gear to the next, and nor did its power. Only the power of the form.

Again, it is dumb to suggest that Luffy would have weaker haki at any point given the level of Luffy’s opponents far exceeds that or the opponents of Zoro and Sanji, and he needs to adequately be able to attack and defend.

Zoros coa has shit over luffys post skip. Luffys coa has been broken or stated to be weaker than all his opponents post timeskip bar cesar.

Lmao.

Your main point checks out but those examples don't. There are a lot of other variables in Haki to account for too, but first and foremost the charlottes aren't anything like the Straw Hats.

What we basically know is:

- Luffy's Haki was recognized repeatedly pre timeskip. That may tie into his prodigious level, which we can say according to Rayleigh going home early. He possibly didn't train his four areas equally (three types of Haki plus his DF) but it may be due to his aptitude and experience that he came out above average across the board.

- Zoro has average CoO. We haven't seen any CoC and we know that his two years were virtually just filled with combat training. So CoA would have to be way ahead for him in a disproportion. Better than Luffy? We don't know. Pretty possible. Didn't look worse than Fujitora from the very little we saw.

- without debate, Sanji's specialty is cooking. So he might have spent half his time training on Haki. His CoA is average, CoO pretty good. Right now Luffy is definitely ahead there, but again it's not his main talent. If his cooking skills were his fighting skills he'd be Roger.

I wasn’t drawing a comparison between the two, I was drawing a comparison between the two Charlottes. Katakuri was first and foremost a CoO specialist, Cracker was clearly more adept at CoA (hell, I can’t remember if he had used CoO at all during that fight). Between the two, the CoO specialist had far superior CoA than the CoA specialist. I used those two to illustrate the inherent wrong in the idea that specialists are better at that specialty than people other than themselves, which it doesn’t necessitate. That is the only reason I brought them up. We had two specialists in the same arc, both of whom Luffy fought, and a direct comparison of one of those traits to each other through Luffy.

And yes, regarding Zoro, we do know that Luffy has better CoA and it’s not possible for Zoro to have better CoA than Luffy. To say so is to suggest that Luffy is less adequately than Zoro able to attack and defend against people significantly stronger than the enemies Zoro will face. It makes no sense.

 

[Fn Lucci]

And yes, regarding Zoro, we do know that Luffy has better CoA and it’s not possible for Zoro to have better CoA than Luffy. To say so is to suggest that Luffy is less adequately than Zoro able to attack and defend against people significantly stronger than the enemies Zoro will face. It makes no sense.

Victory =/= Superior CoA. Did you forget that even at the end of the fight Katakuri was able to hurt Luffy by clashing fists? Determining who has better CoA when they don't fight the same people is what makes no sense.

 

[HA001]

Victory =/= Superior CoA. Did you forget that even at the end of the fight Katakuri was able to hurt Luffy by clashing fists? Determining who has better CoA when they don't fight the same people is what makes no sense.

Hody bellamy doffy and cracker all broke through his haki. Kata himself said his was superior. Luffys hardening is shit.

 

[OEKaneki]

Determining who has better CoA when they don't fight the same people is what makes no sense.

Them fighting different people is the exact reason it makes sense. In any given arc, Luffy always fights an opponent that is significantly stronger than Zoro. Therefore, he must also have a better capacity to attack and defend against the enemy than Zoro, as the person he is fighting is significantly stronger than Zoro himself and the person Zoro fights. Luffy has better CoA and CoO because he has to have better CoA and CoO because the problem he is fighting are far stronger than the people anyone else in his crew fights.

 

[Albino 👑]

Specializing in a specific haki just means that its the haki the individual is best in

 

[Fn Lucci]

Them fighting different people is the exact reason it makes sense. In any given arc, Luffy always fights an opponent that is significantly stronger than Zoro. Therefore, he must also have a better capacity to attack and defend against the enemy than Zoro, as the person he is fighting is significantly stronger than Zoro himself and the person Zoro fights. Luffy has better CoA and CoO because he has to have better CoA and CoO because the problem he is fighting are far stronger than the people anyone else in his crew fights.

I was being generous with your assumptions because it's easy enough to point out the problem with them. The idea that Luffy fights significantly stronger doesn't always hold true and generally Zoro's opponents would be similarly tough for Luffy (Zoro did beat Pica as a flawless victory as Luffy might, we don't know that he'd crush Ohm given the trouble with Satori, Monet caused slightly more trouble for Luffy than Zoro, Kaku would have given Luffy trouble, Mr. 1 would have been just as hard, Zoro's opponent at Baratie was damn Mihawk, the ES abusers at Fishman Island were in the same league of getting low diffed).

Luffy's answer to all that is to generally get better at the things he does and tailor some aspects to his opponent, not get better Haki than them and just bowl them over. Which is why I pointed out the CoA thing that just happened with Katakuri. That is Luffy's biggest and most recent accomplishment, what do you have to say about that?

 

[uyuu]

Specialist doesn't always equal strongest. Especially in the manga where the MC and main big players are highly competent in multiple powers. Furthermore, specialist in CoC is the one who must stand above the others, including in strength. So a CoC owner or specialist imo tend to be stronger in CoA and CoC as well, seeing Luffy and Kata (CoC owner) can have CoA harmonization (not seen on others) and FS (not seen on others)

 

[Lunaria]

It was obvious after WCI that it wasn’t the case and it became even more obvious after Udon. Luffy is way ahead of Zoro and Sanji in CoO and CoA mastery.

And I think what we saw of YCs showed the same logic applies to them (which is not a fact, just my assumption).

- King : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Queen : specializes in CoO, best CoO and weakest CoA
- Jack : specializes in CoA, second best CoA and second best CoO (so he’s literally a Jack of all trades but a master of none)

- Katakuri : obviously specializes in CoO, best CoO and third best CoA
- Smoothie : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Cracker : specializes in CoA, second best CoA and second best CoO
- Snack : specializes in CoA, weakest CoA and weakest CoO

- Benn Beckman : specializes in CoO, best CoO and weakest CoA
- Lucky Roo : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Yasopp : specializes in CoO, second best CoO and second best CoA

- Marco : specializes in CoO, best CoO and weakest CoA
- Jozu : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Vista : specializes in CoA, second best CoA and second best CoO

 

[Ichiro Miyata]

It was obvious after WCI that it wasn’t the case and it became even more obvious after Udon. Luffy is way ahead of Zoro and Sanji in CoO and CoA mastery.

And I think what we saw of YCs showed the same logic applies to them (which is not a fact, just my assumption).

- King : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Queen : specializes in CoO, best CoO and weakest CoA
- Jack : specializes in CoA, second best CoA and second best CoO (so he’s literally a Jack of all trades but a master of none)

- Katakuri : obviously specializes in CoO, best CoO and third best CoA
- Smoothie : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Cracker : specializes in CoA, second best CoA and second best CoO
- Snack : specializes in CoA, weakest CoA and weakest CoO

- Benn Beckman : specializes in CoO, best CoO and weakest CoA
- Lucky Roo : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Yasopp : specializes in CoO, second best CoO and second best CoA

- Marco : specializes in CoO, best CoO and weakest CoA
- Jozu : specializes in CoA, best CoA and weakest CoO
- Vista : specializes in CoA, second best CoA and second best CoO

Nope.Kata's coa stronger than Cracker coa and there is no way King has weakest coo.Jack has weakest coo and then Queen.

 

[Lunaria]

Nope.Kata's coa stronger than Cracker coa and there is no way King has weakest coo.Jack has weakest coo and then Queen.

That’s just your opinion.

 

[Ichiro Miyata]

That’s just your opinion.

Not my opinion

 

[D.Querna]

Mugi post ts...

Zoro with CoA+ ( luched slash with Haki )
Sanji with CoO+ ( evades Katakuri )

Now Luffy post Udon has CoA++ and post Mirror World gas CoO++

 

[Lunaria]

Not my opinion

It is your opinion. You’re just showing that Katakuri’s CoA was greater than Luffy’s, but Cracker’s was greater than Luffy’s as well.

 

[Zenos7]

Not by default. As some have mentioned already, the specialty is only relevant for the character and how the different aspects of haki compare to each other within that character, not how the characters haki compares to other characters haki.

 

[XGoldrogeRX]

the only way to climb mastery of coc is trains his coo and coa to next level along with df mastery (if one is df user) . since coc cannot be train like the other two.it just automatically follows user's inner and power.

to sum it up. luffy is in the right path to being coc specialist. he tamed the two first.

zoro and sanji are left way way behind. since they haven't fight in extreme diff. it's always luffy who always get all the hard work.

 

[Albino 👑]

When it comes to the strawhats this the way i see it
Luffy - the best at all 3 forms
Zoro - 2nd in coa 3rd/4th in coo
Sanji - 2nd in coo 3rd/4th in coa

With jinbei being just about equally good in both being 3rd or 4th

 

[sanjikun]

How can anyone in their right mind argue that DR Luffy had better CoO than Sanji.

Katakuri couldn't even SNEAK ATTACK Sanji

Same thing for Zoro. In Dressrosa, Zoro's CoA > Luffy's CoA and Sanji's CoO > Luffy's CoO.