Character Discussion Better portrayal: Marco vs Katakuri

[Elder Lee Hung]

It means he's perceived to be much better than Doffy and Cracker by whoever found it impossible to believe which doesn't make it a fact.

I wonder why he is perceived that way


But real talk, if we’re about to debate which perception each of us decides to arbitrarily believe and discard, I’m not interested in that lol.

Regardless, Being far above Doffy/Cracker =/= No one is able to beat/hurt him.

I just told you yesterday that Katakuri wasn’t literally invincible lol. He’s only invincible to the high tiers/anyone else who doesn’t have any counter to FS, when he’s using FS lol.

Luffy barely awakened FS at WCI and only demonstrated perfect control of it at Wano. If he's able to edge beat him when he barely knows FS then it's only logical he'd beat him when he has perfect control of it.

Luffy didn’t beat Katakuri in the traditional sense lol. Not in the way the Yeti Cool Brothers defeated Zoro for a example. Katakuri threw the fight because it completed his character arc and development throughout the fight. Katakuri was never once weaker than Luffy lol.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Different but similar and almost all of them enraged Luffy but he never lose control. Luffy gets angry when his friends are hurt but he also understands people get hurt and lose lives in fights. Although he wasn't sure of it, Luffy was confident his friends escaped Kaido's attack. He was enraged mostly because of Tama and it's pretty hard to imagine Luffy losing control of his senses because a friend is hurt. Something similar happened with Bellamy, he didn't lose control. Even in chapter 1000 where he saw his teammates get beaten to death with one of them losing their limb, Luffy didn't lose control even though it's pretty obvious he is enraged.

That was Luffy at the end of the fight vs Lucci, in which he gave it his all immediately due to the rage and completely lost himself.

You are right though, just checked, he basically assumed they were alright after the first Elephant Gun.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

I just told you yesterday that Katakuri wasn’t literally invincible lol. He’s only invincible to the high tiers/anyone else who doesn’t have any counter to FS, when he’s using FS lol.

Who else can beat him when you're trying to tell me the literal strongest guy in the verse can't tag him?

Luffy didn’t beat Katakuri in the traditional sense lol. Not in the way the Yeti Cool Brothers defeated Zoro for a example. Katakuri threw the fight because it completed his character arc and development throughout the fight. Katakuri was never once weaker than Luffy lol.

Not sure what losing in traditional sense means but Luffy was weaker than Kuri only when he didn't have FS. Kuri himself declared Luffy as his equal when he awakened FS so it's only natural he'd be superior when he mastered it.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Who else can beat him when you're trying to tell me the literal strongest guy in the verse can't tag him?

Kaido isn’t the strongest lol. But that’s a whole separate discussion.

Not sure what losing in traditional sense means but Luffy was weaker than Kuri only when he didn't have FS. Kuri himself declared Luffy as his equal when he awakened FS so it's only natural he'd be superior when he mastered it.

Katakuri said he no longer viewed Luffy has his inferior. He never said Luffy was actually his equal lol, just that he was going to treat Luffy as an equal. Katakuri was still much stronger than him.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Kaido isn’t the strongest lol. But that’s a whole separate discussion.

I know you'd say this lmao

Katakuri said he no longer viewed Luffy has his inferior. He never said Luffy was actually his equal lol, just that he was going to treat Luffy as an equal. Katakuri was still much stronger than him.

What's the point of treating someone as an equal when you're far stronger?

 

[comrade]

Big Mom retreated from Marco because it would take time to wear his regeneration down. But she only cared about getting to the roof to Kaido, hence she told the fodders not to be afraid, since she doesn't have time for them anyways.

It would be the same for Katakuri. Do you think Big Mom would waste hours of her time trying to bybass his future sight? No, she would retreat as well. Especially since she said she lacked the tools for Marco to finish it more quickly. Now that prometheus and zeus are fully charged, it's nother story.

 

[HA001]

Big Mom retreated from Marco because it would take time to wear his regeneration down. But she only cared about getting to the roof to Kaido, hence she told the fodders not to be afraid, since she doesn't have time for them anyways.

It would be the same for Katakuri. Do you think Big Mom would waste hours of her time trying to bybass his future sight? No, she would retreat as well. Especially since she said she lacked the tools for Marco to finish it more quickly. Now that prometheus and zeus are fully charged, it's nother story.

she wouldnt need hours
one big ass Prometheus attack and hes done

 

[comrade]

one big ass Prometheus attack and hes done

Katakuri has a logia body though.

 

[HA001]

Katakuri has a logia body though.

no he doesnt
hes logia like cause of his fs lets him dodge in cqc but hes still a paramecia
and we already know his fs is useless to aoe

 

[comrade]

no he doesnt
hes logia like cause of his fs lets him dodge in cqc but hes still a paramecia
and we already know his fs is useless to aoe

He is shown blowing up his limbs and regrowing them. He is also shown splitting his body into pieces. He was even introduced as a logia. Oda merely changed it into "special" paramecia to grand the logia title to natural elements. Special paramecia means logia-like.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

Marco was lucky that BM didn't have Zeus powered up because of Brook

Judge treatment was gonna befall him too.

Plot saved Marco because Oda had to use him to stall the plague and throw Zoro up

 

[Jiihad]

I think people on this forum confuse “portrayal” with “circumstance” lol.

People are like “Marco has better portrayal than Katakuri because Marco circumstantially faced opponents who Katakuri has not had the opportunity to face,” but that’s not what portrayal is. Marco has also circumstantially faced stronger opponents than Mihawk has, but not many say Mihawk < Marco.

“Portrayal” is more about things like how Oda himself treats each character and how he has other characters perceive them in the story. Katakuri has Marco beat in both regards. Marco has really good portrayal in terms of the characters who respect him and how Oda treats him and such, but Katakuri’s portrayal is simply better.

Katakuri is viewed as a threat by his own captain, Katakuri has remained undefeated at the top of the New World power scale, Katakuri was praised by Rayleigh, people who know that Luffy defeated Doflamingo and Cracker still claimed that Luffy defeating Katakuri was “impossible” etc..

The best you can really say about Marco’s portrayal, is that he was named captain of the Whitebeard Pirates after Whitebeard died, but the story had made it explicitly clear that this would apply to Katakuri as well. Marco made Big Mom retreat, but Big Mom also has to abuse Katakuri into submission so he doesn’t realize that he is a more fitting captain than she is.

Again, Marco does not have bad portrayal, Katakuri’s is simply better.

I do agree to an extent that Kuri portrayal IS great, but while Kuri is hyped as this invincible terminator. When it was time to rock and roll, he was grouped with and not even named in tha WCI reports to tha world. While on tha other hand, Marco has ALWAYS been separated from tha other commanders and was singled out as tha last rampart to Teech becoming a bonefide Yonko
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Marco was lucky that BM didn't have Zeus powered up because of Brook

Judge treatment was gonna befall him too.

Plot saved Marco because Oda had to use him to stall the plague and throw Zoro up

Plot saved Linlin from getting drop kicked in tha head by Marco and turning into O-lin

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

What's the point of treating someone as an equal when you're far stronger?

Have you ever competed before? If so, you’ll know the difference between treating someone as an equal for the sake of not underestimating them, and them actually being your equals.

I do agree to an extent that Kuri portrayal IS great, but while Kuri is hyped as this invincible terminator. When it was time to rock and roll, he was grouped with and not even named in tha WCI reports to tha world.

Now we’re getting into the realm of notoriety/perception vs reality. Katakuri is someone who controls his own territory within Tottoland and probably doesn’t leave the territory all that often lol. Hell he didn’t even show up to Wano. He is probably less known than some other First Mates, I’ll be the first to admit that, but that doesn’t mean he is weaker than them lol. Coby is also more well known than Vergo is, but Vergo would break Coby into pieces if it came down to it lol.

While on tha other hand, Marco has ALWAYS been separated from tha other commanders and was singled out as tha last rampart to Teech becoming a bonefide Yonko

Not really. Marco was only ever separated from the Whitebeard Pirates when they named him captain lol. Other than that, he’s never been separated from his own crew. The exact same distinction has been made about Katakuri, that he would be the captain if it came down to it.

But I don’t want to talk too much trash about Marco, who I’ve always, always said was underrated lol.

 

[Jiihad]

Have you ever competed before? If so, you’ll know the difference between treating someone as an equal for the sake of not underestimating them, and them actually being your equals.



Now we’re getting into the realm of notoriety/perception vs reality. Katakuri is someone who controls his own territory within Tottoland and probably doesn’t leave the territory all that often lol. Hell he didn’t even show up to Wano. He is probably less known than some other First Mates, I’ll be the first to admit that, but that doesn’t mean he is weaker than them lol. Coby is also more well known than Vergo is, but Vergo would break Coby into pieces if it came disk to it lol.



Not really. Marco was only ever separated from the Whitebeard Pirates when they named him captain lol. Other than that, he’s never been separated from his own crew. The exact same distinction has been made about Katakuri, that he would be the captain if it came down to it.

But I don’t want to talk too much trash about Marco, who I’ve always, always said was underrated lol.

Notoriety/perception vs reality is a part of portrayal tho my dude, tha 11 supernova are tha most notorious pirates from their generation as such they’re portrayed as tha strongest of their generation as well

For tha most part you’d be right, but in OP(Imu withstanding) tha pirates with tha most notoriety as almost always portrayed as tha strongest.

• Yonko
• Supernova
• Warlords
• Yonko Commanders

This list isn’t in order at all, I’m jus saying these are tha most notorious pirate groups and also tha strongest

Ah I will agree with you there. When we first get introduced to tha SC’s they were all lumped together. But once we started getting actual info on em, Kuri was tha clear cut solo Gawd. Same for Marco tho, at first he was jus “another commander” but then MF happened and we saw him be tha only one that rushed to WB’s side and tango/fight with all 3 admirals. Then in tha Payback war and tha Wano alliance he was tha leading figure in tha payback war. And Neko only mentioned going to Marco for help and no one else

Nah I feel ya lmao, it’s like 5 of us real Marco fans on hea. Do ion really wanna go on a crazy ass debate war wit my nikka bout Marco vs Katakuri

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Marco = Katakuri. Both are low top tiers. Marco has regeneration and Kata has FS. Oh and both are stronger than King the Background for sure.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Notoriety/perception vs reality is a part of portrayal tho my dude, tha 11 supernova are tha most notorious pirates from their generation as such they’re portrayed as tha strongest of their generation as well

The 11 Supernova are also a great counter to the idea that notoriety = superiority.

Urouge, the literal least notorious Supernova, was also the first among them to defeat a Sweet Commander in combat when both Kidd and Capone also tried to fight the exact same Yonko crew and failed miserably.

Drake also had a much more successful time in the New World than Kidd did. Kidd was the most notorious Supernova of Luffy's generation, and his career in the New World has also been like, the least successful lol.

For tha most part you’d be right, but in OP(Imu withstanding) tha pirates with tha most notoriety as almost always portrayed as tha strongest.

• Yonko
• Supernova
• Warlords
• Yonko Commanders

This list isn’t in order at all, I’m jus saying these are tha most notorious pirate groups and also tha strongest

That's a really broad group of people you just named there though lol. A lot of Pirates in that group are notorious without being all that strong (Buggy, Luffy's entire generation, Cavendish, Barto, etc) while others are or have been strong without being notorious (Blackbeard).

I am not saying that there is no link between notoriety and strength. I am saying there is not a 1-1 correlation between strength and notoriety. Obviously strength plays into how notorious someone is, but if strength = notoriety, then we would just scale people via their bounty and call it a day, but we don't do that because we know there is much more to the story than just how much of a reputation someone has earned for themselves.

Nah I feel ya lmao, it’s like 5 of us real Marco fans on hea. Do ion really wanna go on a crazy ass debate war wit my nikka bout Marco vs Katakuri

That's fair, me neither lol. Most of my time in this thread is just debunking people who are trying to unfairly downplay Kuri lol.

 

[Adam 🍎]

Thing about Marco and Katakuri is that they are both beyond strong in their respective aspects.
Where Katakuri has a full mastery of his DF and CoO
Marco has insane physical power and regenerative abilities

If you would switch Marco with Katakuri in Wano, can you really say that Katakuri wouldn't do just as good Marco did?
And if you switch Katakuri with Marco in WCI can you really say that Marco wouldn't do just as good Katakuri did?

The difference they have is that Katakuri was only present in 1 arc and he was paired against MC, despite that he showed - at least to me - srsly top tier stuff out of characters we have seen. And while Katakuri might now have Mountain buster shit question is tho does he really need it? Luffy used every trick in the book he had against Katakuri and it still took Luffy magical shit to take him down.

To me both are equal, both are equally strong and it falls down to pairing. Katakuri would fair better against certain enemies same as Marco would fair better against others too

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

i would say marco is still better. I don't recall the manga confirming it, but i think he's second strongest of whitebeard pirate, a guy who should be able to match rayleigh.

 

[Jiihad]

The 11 Supernova are also a great counter to the idea that notoriety = superiority.

Urouge, the literal least notorious Supernova, was also the first among them to defeat a Sweet Commander in combat when both Kidd and Capone also tried to fight the exact same Yonko crew and failed miserably.

Drake also had a much more successful time in the New World than Kidd did. Kidd was the most notorious Supernova of Luffy's generation, and his career in the New World has also been like, the least successful lol.



That's a really broad group of people you just named there though lol. A lot of Pirates in that group are notorious without being all that strong (Buggy, Luffy's entire generation, Cavendish, Barto, etc) while others are or have been strong without being notorious (Blackbeard).

I am not saying that there is no link between notoriety and strength. I am saying there is not a 1-1 correlation between strength and notoriety. Obviously strength plays into how notorious someone is, but if strength = notoriety, then we would just scale people via their bounty and call it a day, but we don't do that because we know there is much more to the story than just how much of a reputation someone has earned for themselves.



That's fair, me neither lol. Most of my time in this thread is just debunking people who are trying to unfairly downplay Kuri lol.

That’s not a fair 1:1 comparison tho blood. Urouge attempt on WCI was very recent at that point in tha story. While Kidd was hinted at his being one of tha earliest. So they were at different points of their strength and growth at that time

And even then, Kidd didn’t fail lol, he said he was only there to get sum and he accomplished it and injured one of her commanders

Drake also joined tha strongest pirates alive lol, he was bound to have an easier time than a guy who’s fighting and challenging drakes boss

Not to mention Kidd is actually prolly tha most successful after Luffy lol. Man had his own home base and I think subordinate crews

Buggy is a known lucky SoB tho lmao. Let’s not include Odas running gag. Luffys generation IS strong and notorious tho. 5 of em are bout to beat tha WSC and possibly another emperor, Cavendish is somewhere around Sanji lvl he’s strong all trolling aside, Teech purposely hid himself. We have no indication that Katakuri did same

There isn’t a 1:1 correlation true, but EVERY strong pirate or individual is notorious

Yea lemme say that now, ion hate Kuri lol. I jus think Marco>Katakuri is all. Like how it looks now, Katakuri us clearly above King. I jus think Marco is stronger than people thought or want to admit

 

[Red Admiral]

I want to say Kata ... but Marco clearly got better hype as of now