Powers & Abilities CoC has been badly handled by Oda

#61
Thread made after 1033 has nothing to do with Zoro getting AdCoC...okay. 2 things can both be true. :seriously:
Yeah, Its obviously related to the events of 1033

but my issue isn't that Zoro has ACoC. My issue is that Oda is handing out ACoC to both Luffy and Zoro without actually explaining what it does. My issue is that CoC was introduced as a distinctive power from CoA, and now it is basically CoA 2.0. Yeah obviously a thread about Oda's mishandling of CoC is tied to a chapter that deals with CoC, but this thread has nothing to do with zoro specifically.
 
#65
zoro getting advcoc out no where justified his claims, so it is reasonable for the op to make the thread after zoro got advcoc
And its not just zoro. I had literally the exact same gripes with Luffy doing it.

Advanced haki is a literal plot device to help the MCs beat the villain of the day. ACoC is supposedly the greatest power ever, yet its basically just CoA 2.0 and the fact that Luffy and Zoro unlocked it so easily makes you wonder why its even so rare to begin with. I mean if all you need to do is flow your CoC like CoA, why didn't rayleigh ever teach Luffy flow?

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/will-we-ever-see-a-villain-get-a-haki-bloom.17706/

and I made criticisms of haki pre-1033 many times. Haki blooms always happen for the MCs and never the heroes. Doffy never unlocked ACoC but Luffy and Zoro easily do.
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Aw a CoC user getting onto the next stage of CoC is not justified. Cope mate 😢
are you defending Oda's bad writing just because he gives Zoro power ups that make him look cool?
 
#66
Yeah, Its obviously related to the events of 1033

but my issue isn't that Zoro has ACoC. My issue is that Oda is handing out ACoC to both Luffy and Zoro without actually explaining what it does. My issue is that CoC was introduced as a distinctive power from CoA, and now it is basically CoA 2.0. Yeah obviously a thread about Oda's mishandling of CoC is tied to a chapter that deals with CoC, but this thread has nothing to do with zoro specifically.
It is pretty straightforward mate.

The first time CoC was introduced it was just a random burst that knocked out weak people.

Then we find out that it can be controlled and directed at whomever like an attack. Now we find those direct CoC attacks can be incorporated into physical attacks, pretty straightforward.

Just like with Devil fruits having levels (normal DF use and then awakening), Oda is now telling us that the different forms of Haki also has them
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A coc user getting advcoc the same day he knows he has coc
Courtesy of Enma, as explained in 1033...
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
#67
I think CoC is cool the way it is, it looks pretty functional and full of variety, but it would be useful if Oda answered some questions in the upcoming SBS.
 
#68
It is pretty straightforward mate.

The first time CoC was introduced it was just a random burst that knocked out weak people.

Then we find out that it can be controlled and directed at whomever like an attack. Now we find those direct CoC attacks can be incorporated into physical attacks, pretty straightforward.
my point is that this goes against the initial concept of CoC

CoC was introduced as the power to dominate the wills of others. So why are you coating your weapons with it? It makes attacks stronger, but how? Oda should at least give an explanation here.
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ex. CoA makes attacks stronger by making the fist harder or by destroying from the inside. What the fuck does ACoC actually do? God knows.
 

Don DaSlayer

The Peerless swordsman
#70
It was an excuse for Oda to later on explain some powers or asspulls by just saying "this was haki"
He cant truly ever define haki system


The biggest hypocrites who flip flop and act like they weren't wrong to downplay adcoc, fs & CoC

Just watch they'd hype fs when mihawk or zoro get it or shiryu has it
They will be hyping it crazily

These guys are to be ignored
Ooh this that zoro vs Orochi or Kyshiro headass guy.
:gokulaugh:
 
#71
When CoC was first introduced, it was hyped up to be this big important power. Yet it never had any plot relevancy. Oda kept its plot relevancy hidden for the sake of hype, or whatever. Then he just drops it on us all of a sudden in the climax of wano without even giving a solid explanation for it.


Oda could have, instead, made CoC relevant from the start and explained the full capabilities of this power, or at least have shanks or someone do that. But nope, we can't have that. We need to have mysteries to keep readers from dropping this series.
 
#72
It is pretty straightforward mate.

The first time CoC was introduced it was just a random burst that knocked out weak people.

Then we find out that it can be controlled and directed at whomever like an attack. Now we find those direct CoC attacks can be incorporated into physical attacks, pretty straightforward.

Just like with Devil fruits having levels (normal DF use and then awakening), Oda is now telling us that the different forms of Haki also has them
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Courtesy of Enma, as explained in 1033...
no dude its the hardest thing ever to understand and it makes no sense :gokulaugh::cheers: thank you for being sane tbh
 
#73
haki was in the series since the first chapter and youre reading two piece if you think it was made up later or added in. just because you're not getting Haki for Dummies and 40 pages of boring power explanation like in hunter x hunter doesnt mean it makes no sense. its like the easiest possible power system to understand but somehow its impossible for people without a big waste of time breakdown of every detail lol
Yeah, but it's clear that he hadn't figured out what it would look like in the story, tbf. I mentioned before how of many possible influences, Oda had originally used CoC in a way that resembled Gongoro of Shibaraku.

That initial burst from Shanks doesn't resemble the modern usage, and really it's a plot hole where you have to consider the length of time between the first chapter and the somewhat casual use after EL. And speaking of EL, there's the obvious gaffe of CP9 having Haki but not actually using arguably the most important application
 
#74
there's no such thing as "advanced conquerors haki". being able to do raw blasts and being able to actually use it in combination with armament or observation are just techniques. there is no hard delineation between "regular" and "advanced" haki and anyone you EVER see using these terms is pulling headcanon out of their ass. nothing in the story backs it up.

say im using my hands to fight. if i slap you thats not "base hands" and if i punch you it suddenly becomes "advanced hands", i block and its "barrier hands" and then if i grab you it's "advanced internal destruction hands". its all different applications of the same thing
 
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#76
my point is that this goes against the initial concept of CoC

CoC was introduced as the power to dominate the wills of others. So why are you coating your weapons with it? It makes attacks stronger, but how? Oda should at least give an explanation here.
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ex. CoA makes attacks stronger by making the fist harder or by destroying from the inside. What the fuck does ACoC actually do? God knows.
Nobody said it makes attacks stronger, CoC only gets stronger when the user does. It really doesn't, not a single panel has stated that CoC dominates the wills of an opponent only. It makes more sense that Haki has levels and only strong people can achieve it, just like devil fruits have levels

Dominates the CoC or just Haki of whoever they're fighting. And from what we've seen incorporating it into attacks makes them more lethal, a la Kaido scar for example

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no dude its the hardest thing ever to understand and it makes no sense :gokulaugh::cheers: thank you for being sane tbh
I am flabbergasted I tell ya :josad:
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there's no such thing as "advanced conquerors haki". being able to do raw blasts and being able to actually use it in combination with armament or observation are just techniques. there is no hard delineation between "regular" and "advanced" haki and anyone you EVER see using these terms is pulling headcanon out of their ass. nothing in the story backs it up.

say im using my hands to fight. if i slap you thats not "base hands" and if i punch you it suddenly becomes "advanced hands" and then if i grab you it's "advanced conquerors hands". its all different applications of the same thing
Exactly
 
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#77
I just don’t understand why we need to wait for an explanation hundreds of chapters after both Luffy and zoro get it
Cuz Haki & Devil Fruits Explanation holds Major Spoilers about Final Arc
That's why Vegapunk wasn't introduced yet even though he was mentioned decade ago

Oda could have made a Single Chapter explaining all Types & Flow of Haki if he wanted (Similar to Nen in Hunter x Hunter)
But as i said, it's not because it's hard to do, even a Kid can do that, it's because it would ruin the Ending
 
#78
And its not just zoro. I had literally the exact same gripes with Luffy doing it.

Advanced haki is a literal plot device to help the MCs beat the villain of the day. ACoC is supposedly the greatest power ever, yet its basically just CoA 2.0 and the fact that Luffy and Zoro unlocked it so easily makes you wonder why its even so rare to begin with. I mean if all you need to do is flow your CoC like CoA, why didn't rayleigh ever teach Luffy flow?

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/will-we-ever-see-a-villain-get-a-haki-bloom.17706/

and I made criticisms of haki pre-1033 many times. Haki blooms always happen for the MCs and never the heroes. Doffy never unlocked ACoC but Luffy and Zoro easily do.
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are you defending Oda's bad writing just because he gives Zoro power ups that make him look cool?
Is it bad writing if you don't understand what you're reading or don't have the patience to wait for an explanation?
 
#79
Well it should have had some other usagw besides KO fodder, why else the marines feared and saw Luffy as someonw with potential that needed to be erased when they saw his CoC.

KO fodders wont do it. If we take what it does on fodders - overpower their wills then CoC coating is the same.

I agree the explanation is poorly done however. Oda never bothered to explain what CoC coating does. One idea is it would amplify your advanced CoA or CoO, taking from above the basic use of it - overpowering fodders willpower, but taking that to your haki.

That would mean we might get adv CoC + CoO application at some point.

But these are all just wild guesses, find out in the next 5 years.
 
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