Manga Discussion D.Gray Man
- Thread starter Cross_Marian
- Start date
He is as far as she knows, or...
Maybe it's being stuck in limbo
Maybe it's being stuck in limbo
Anyway, I'm curious is that is the final of arc that called: Farevell Allen Walker, or we will get it's continuation even in Mansion.
But it seems that Allen will be indeed forever gone.
You know my craziest theory is about Allen who will became Earl in the end, that was his goal from the very begining. Or maybe he will stay as Apocryphe puppet and fight for Heart? I'm really curious where this story will going from this point.
Also I feel like Akuma lvl 6 finally appeared, and If my theory is correct this Akuma will be even more humanish than lvl 5 was.
@Cross_Marian now speaking about yours question about what did expected from this chaptet, it's already surpassed any expectation that I have, and we learned where we will get Guide who will lead us forward in story to that Mansion. I hate to say that but I don't think that we will see Mansion in next year. But I'm fine with this...already got tired from flashbacks.
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Yes, we are not in the same boat as Hunter x Hunter, we have our precious chapter release every three month which is good I guess. And what is more important revelation of all truth finally incoming in that mansion.
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Yes the Mansion Arc got delayed
Next chapter will be about the hidden side of the Holy War
The bookstore could be related to the Bookman Clan
Kanda and Lena will be in a group now and Lavi will probably meet Allen
Maybe Krory and Chaozii will show up we’ll get Allen vs Chaozii
The owner of the bookstore will give us some final clues and challenge Allen
It makes sense that Nea has more "supporters"
There’s still this one guy who told Malcolm everything about Mana und Nea
Next chapter will be about the hidden side of the Holy War
The bookstore could be related to the Bookman Clan
Kanda and Lena will be in a group now and Lavi will probably meet Allen
Maybe Krory and Chaozii will show up we’ll get Allen vs Chaozii
The owner of the bookstore will give us some final clues and challenge Allen
It makes sense that Nea has more "supporters"
There’s still this one guy who told Malcolm everything about Mana und Nea
Now speaking about my theory and yours point about golem with human soul.
Golem with human soul is Akuma lvl 1
Now what makes Akuma stronger and why an evolution happening?
I already posted this theory of mine, but here are the main points of it. Soul suffering - > destruction of soul - > releasing enourmous energy(which also called as power of evolution by Past Allen).
Basically Bio Golem(case Akuma have blood) absorbs souls.
And what is more important each lvl up leads Akuma to way in obtaining own personality. Again Crory fall in love in Eliada, and Eliada loved Crory but she wasn't same soul as soul of human whose body she possessed. And we saw Eliada later in the series...so Eliada was real person, but she wasn't a human, so who was she?
Now if in Bible 6 means absolute incomplete number, or devil's number, 7 should be a human beign.
Which is more interesting thing Akuma's body threw the evolution looks more like a normal human.
So my theory is that Akuma lvl 7 is a human, whose body and soul became one thing.
So lvl 5 and 6 will be Akuma who will look even more humanish, so probably lvl 6 Akuma will look like normal human who possess crazy power, and still is Akuma.
it is best thing to read man.
Golem with human soul is Akuma lvl 1
Now what makes Akuma stronger and why an evolution happening?
I already posted this theory of mine, but here are the main points of it. Soul suffering - > destruction of soul - > releasing enourmous energy(which also called as power of evolution by Past Allen).
Basically Bio Golem(case Akuma have blood) absorbs souls.
And what is more important each lvl up leads Akuma to way in obtaining own personality. Again Crory fall in love in Eliada, and Eliada loved Crory but she wasn't same soul as soul of human whose body she possessed. And we saw Eliada later in the series...so Eliada was real person, but she wasn't a human, so who was she?
Now if in Bible 6 means absolute incomplete number, or devil's number, 7 should be a human beign.
Which is more interesting thing Akuma's body threw the evolution looks more like a normal human.
So my theory is that Akuma lvl 7 is a human, whose body and soul became one thing.
So lvl 5 and 6 will be Akuma who will look even more humanish, so probably lvl 6 Akuma will look like normal human who possess crazy power, and still is Akuma.
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it is best thing to read man.
As I said, I don't think there will be any Akuma past Level 4.
You see, number 4 in Japan is associated with death. Even numbers which contain number 4 are generally unlucky-sounding. Much like number 13 in America, there are often no floors or hospitals with number 4 in Japan.
And what do the Akuma symbolize? Death.
Even in the Western Christian mythology, you have Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And what is the purpose of the Akuma? To bring fourth the Apocalypse.
Considering that D.Gray Man is a highly symbolic and mythological work*, I simply do not see Hoshino ignoring this symbolism.
Also, your Bible symbolism is wrong. Number 6 is not the Devil's Number, it is human number. Number 6 also represents imperfection and incompleteness, because humans bear the Original Sin and have thus fallen out of the divine. Man was created on the sixth day; on the seventh day was creation of the world completed.
Number 666 is the Number of the Beast because it represents rejection of the divine in favor of human under influence of the Devil. It is symbolic because number 7 represents the divinity and perfection, and because there are three divine persons (the Holy Trinity) and 3 is also divine number. So triple repetition of 6 (it is not 666 but 6 - 6 - 6) represents the "perfect rejection of perfection", or else the human quest for divine which is what got them thrown out of the Eden in the first place (the Original Sin is a consequence of Adam and Eve seeking to become akin to God, or even become Gods). And Devil himself had also rejected God while seeking divine. Three sixes also parody the trinity (three sevens).
* Examples:
The Noah family: Millenium Earl and 12 disciples. Literally the Antichrist and his 12 Apostles.
The Innocence: There are 109 pieces of Innocence. Miranda's Rewinding Town kept resetting to October 9 or 10/9. And if you exclude the Cube, this leaves 108 pieces of Innocence - which is an important symbol in Buddhism: 108 earthly temptations (Bonnō) a person must overcome to achieve nirvana.
Allen Walker's birthday is on 12/25. Or 25 December. I don't think I need to explain that one.
Anyway:
https://fantasyview.wordpress.com/2023/11/01/allen-walker-is-the-best-protagonist-in-manga/
You see, number 4 in Japan is associated with death. Even numbers which contain number 4 are generally unlucky-sounding. Much like number 13 in America, there are often no floors or hospitals with number 4 in Japan.
And what do the Akuma symbolize? Death.
Even in the Western Christian mythology, you have Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And what is the purpose of the Akuma? To bring fourth the Apocalypse.
Considering that D.Gray Man is a highly symbolic and mythological work*, I simply do not see Hoshino ignoring this symbolism.
Also, your Bible symbolism is wrong. Number 6 is not the Devil's Number, it is human number. Number 6 also represents imperfection and incompleteness, because humans bear the Original Sin and have thus fallen out of the divine. Man was created on the sixth day; on the seventh day was creation of the world completed.
Number 666 is the Number of the Beast because it represents rejection of the divine in favor of human under influence of the Devil. It is symbolic because number 7 represents the divinity and perfection, and because there are three divine persons (the Holy Trinity) and 3 is also divine number. So triple repetition of 6 (it is not 666 but 6 - 6 - 6) represents the "perfect rejection of perfection", or else the human quest for divine which is what got them thrown out of the Eden in the first place (the Original Sin is a consequence of Adam and Eve seeking to become akin to God, or even become Gods). And Devil himself had also rejected God while seeking divine. Three sixes also parody the trinity (three sevens).
* Examples:
The Noah family: Millenium Earl and 12 disciples. Literally the Antichrist and his 12 Apostles.
The Innocence: There are 109 pieces of Innocence. Miranda's Rewinding Town kept resetting to October 9 or 10/9. And if you exclude the Cube, this leaves 108 pieces of Innocence - which is an important symbol in Buddhism: 108 earthly temptations (Bonnō) a person must overcome to achieve nirvana.
Allen Walker's birthday is on 12/25. Or 25 December. I don't think I need to explain that one.
Anyway:
https://fantasyview.wordpress.com/2023/11/01/allen-walker-is-the-best-protagonist-in-manga/
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As I said, I don't think there will be any Akuma past Level 4.
You see, number 4 in Japan is associated with death. Even numbers which contain number 4 are generally unlucky-sounding. Much like number 13 in America, there are often no floors or hospitals with number 4 in Japan.
And what do the Akuma symbolize? Death.
Even in the Western Christian mythology, you have Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And what is the purpose of the Akuma? To bring fourth the Apocalypse.
Considering that D.Gray Man is a highly symbolic and mythological work*, I simply do not see Hoshino ignoring this symbolism.
Also, your Bible symbolism is wrong. Number 6 is not the Devil's Number, it is human number. Number 6 also represents imperfection and incompleteness, because humans bear the Original Sin and have thus fallen out of the divine. Man was created on the sixth day; on the seventh day was creation of the world completed.
Number 666 is the Number of the Beast because it represents rejection of the divine in favor of human under influence of the Devil. It is symbolic because number 7 represents the divinity and perfection, and because there are three divine persons (the Holy Trinity) and 3 is also divine number. So triple repetition of 6 (it is not 666 but 6 - 6 - 6) represents the "perfect rejection of perfection", or else the human quest for divine which is what got them thrown out of the Eden in the first place (the Original Sin is a consequence of Adam and Eve seeking to become akin to God, or even become Gods). And Devil himself had also rejected God while seeking divine. Three sixes also parody the trinity (three sevens).
* Examples:
The Noah family: Millenium Earl and 12 disciples. Literally the Antichrist and his 12 Apostles.
The Innocence: There are 109 pieces of Innocence. Miranda's Rewinding Town kept resetting to October 9 or 10/9. And if you exclude the Cube, this leaves 108 pieces of Innocence - which is an important symbol in Buddhism: 108 earthly temptations (Bonnō) a person must overcome to achieve nirvana.
Allen Walker's birthday is on 12/25. Or 25 December. I don't think I need to explain that one.
Anyway:
https://fantasyview.wordpress.com/2023/11/01/allen-walker-is-the-best-protagonist-in-manga/
You see, number 4 in Japan is associated with death. Even numbers which contain number 4 are generally unlucky-sounding. Much like number 13 in America, there are often no floors or hospitals with number 4 in Japan.
And what do the Akuma symbolize? Death.
Even in the Western Christian mythology, you have Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And what is the purpose of the Akuma? To bring fourth the Apocalypse.
Considering that D.Gray Man is a highly symbolic and mythological work*, I simply do not see Hoshino ignoring this symbolism.
Also, your Bible symbolism is wrong. Number 6 is not the Devil's Number, it is human number. Number 6 also represents imperfection and incompleteness, because humans bear the Original Sin and have thus fallen out of the divine. Man was created on the sixth day; on the seventh day was creation of the world completed.
Number 666 is the Number of the Beast because it represents rejection of the divine in favor of human under influence of the Devil. It is symbolic because number 7 represents the divinity and perfection, and because there are three divine persons (the Holy Trinity) and 3 is also divine number. So triple repetition of 6 (it is not 666 but 6 - 6 - 6) represents the "perfect rejection of perfection", or else the human quest for divine which is what got them thrown out of the Eden in the first place (the Original Sin is a consequence of Adam and Eve seeking to become akin to God, or even become Gods). And Devil himself had also rejected God while seeking divine. Three sixes also parody the trinity (three sevens).
* Examples:
The Noah family: Millenium Earl and 12 disciples. Literally the Antichrist and his 12 Apostles.
The Innocence: There are 109 pieces of Innocence. Miranda's Rewinding Town kept resetting to October 9 or 10/9. And if you exclude the Cube, this leaves 108 pieces of Innocence - which is an important symbol in Buddhism: 108 earthly temptations (Bonnō) a person must overcome to achieve nirvana.
Allen Walker's birthday is on 12/25. Or 25 December. I don't think I need to explain that one.
Anyway:
https://fantasyview.wordpress.com/2023/11/01/allen-walker-is-the-best-protagonist-in-manga/
You see what Earl is talking about is crucial for DGM and War, because there is hidden meaning of Akuma evolution, and this imply already that 4 lvl Akuma never wasn't planned as last one. This chapter happens after Black Order destruction accident, so 4 lvl Akuma already appeared that time.
Here I posted my theory so you can read it, if you want: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/d-gray-man.18213/page-3#post-2101036
I know what you are talking about, and yes, I agree that Level 4 Akuma never was an end goal. As I said: there likely will be something beyond Level 4 Akuma, but whatever it is, it will no longer be an Akuma. So discussing it in terms of levels is both pointless and misleading; humans give birth to the Akuma, but nobody calls humans themselves "Level 0 Akuma" (there are Level 0 Akuma, but they are Akuma skeletons wearing human skin, not humans themselves).
Akuma simply cannot evolve beyond Level 4 the way Akuma normally do. Not only is there all the symbolism I have discussed before, but also an issue of how Akuma evolve.
The Akuma evolves by degrading the human soul that powers it. But with Level 4, that process of degradation is implied to have reached its ultimate stage: we aren't even shown what the degraded soul looks like, merely that it is so degraded that Allen literally throws up.
It is almost certain we will not be getting Level 5 Akuma, let alone Level 6 or Level 7. State of the Akuma's soul at Level 4 should preclude any further evolution.
Rather, consider what exactly he said:
"They think the Akuma are nothing but killing machines. They don't know the meaning behind their evolution. (...) If they find out, so will the one with the "Heart". If that happens, our plans will be destroyed."
Rather than meaning that "4 lvl Akuma never wasn't planned as last one", I think correct interpretation would be that Akuma themselves are merely a transitionary stage towards something fundamentally different, something that cannot even be called an Akuma.
Maybe that something are new Noah's memories. Maybe it is something else entirely. Who knows?
Akuma simply cannot evolve beyond Level 4 the way Akuma normally do. Not only is there all the symbolism I have discussed before, but also an issue of how Akuma evolve.
The Akuma evolves by degrading the human soul that powers it. But with Level 4, that process of degradation is implied to have reached its ultimate stage: we aren't even shown what the degraded soul looks like, merely that it is so degraded that Allen literally throws up.
It is almost certain we will not be getting Level 5 Akuma, let alone Level 6 or Level 7. State of the Akuma's soul at Level 4 should preclude any further evolution.
Rather, consider what exactly he said:
"They think the Akuma are nothing but killing machines. They don't know the meaning behind their evolution. (...) If they find out, so will the one with the "Heart". If that happens, our plans will be destroyed."
Rather than meaning that "4 lvl Akuma never wasn't planned as last one", I think correct interpretation would be that Akuma themselves are merely a transitionary stage towards something fundamentally different, something that cannot even be called an Akuma.
Maybe that something are new Noah's memories. Maybe it is something else entirely. Who knows?
I know what you are talking about, and yes, I agree that Level 4 Akuma never was an end goal. As I said: there likely will be something beyond Level 4 Akuma, but whatever it is, it will no longer be an Akuma. So discussing it in terms of levels is both pointless and misleading; humans give birth to the Akuma, but nobody calls humans themselves "Level 0 Akuma" (there are Level 0 Akuma, but they are Akuma skeletons wearing human skin, not humans themselves).
Akuma simply cannot evolve beyond Level 4 the way Akuma normally do. Not only is there all the symbolism I have discussed before, but also an issue of how Akuma evolve.
The Akuma evolves by degrading the human soul that powers it. But with Level 4, that process of degradation is implied to have reached its ultimate stage: we aren't even shown what the degraded soul looks like, merely that it is so degraded that Allen literally throws up.
It is almost certain we will not be getting Level 5 Akuma, let alone Level 6 or Level 7. State of the Akuma's soul at Level 4 should preclude any further evolution.
Rather, consider what exactly he said:
"They think the Akuma are nothing but killing machines. They don't know the meaning behind their evolution. (...) If they find out, so will the one with the "Heart". If that happens, our plans will be destroyed."
Rather than meaning that "4 lvl Akuma never wasn't planned as last one", I think correct interpretation would be that Akuma themselves are merely a transitionary stage towards something fundamentally different, something that cannot even be called an Akuma.
Maybe that something are new Noah's memories. Maybe it is something else entirely. Who knows?
Akuma simply cannot evolve beyond Level 4 the way Akuma normally do. Not only is there all the symbolism I have discussed before, but also an issue of how Akuma evolve.
The Akuma evolves by degrading the human soul that powers it. But with Level 4, that process of degradation is implied to have reached its ultimate stage: we aren't even shown what the degraded soul looks like, merely that it is so degraded that Allen literally throws up.
It is almost certain we will not be getting Level 5 Akuma, let alone Level 6 or Level 7. State of the Akuma's soul at Level 4 should preclude any further evolution.
Rather, consider what exactly he said:
"They think the Akuma are nothing but killing machines. They don't know the meaning behind their evolution. (...) If they find out, so will the one with the "Heart". If that happens, our plans will be destroyed."
Rather than meaning that "4 lvl Akuma never wasn't planned as last one", I think correct interpretation would be that Akuma themselves are merely a transitionary stage towards something fundamentally different, something that cannot even be called an Akuma.
Maybe that something are new Noah's memories. Maybe it is something else entirely. Who knows?
Now speaking about Akuma lvl and comparison with human beign...remember how Road Camelot acted? She despite both humans and Akuma.
Cool, so because some blood type anyone can be changed to a monster? And what if I say that humans are actually Akuma who turned into human beign. Even when they stopped to be just Akuma, their body have some part of Dark Metter, which is a reason why anyone can became new Noah.
But yeah, I need more proves for this theory and lvl 5 Akuma would be perfect thing for that.
But yeah, I need more proves for this theory and lvl 5 Akuma would be perfect thing for that.
It is not "some blood type", it is the very origin of humans that allows them to act as hosts of Noah memories. Ever since the first Great Flood, all humans on Earth are the descendants of Noah and his family. The Original Sin may also play some role into that, but I'd rather wait for more information to be revealed by manga before theorizing on that.
As for humans being Akuma who turned into human beings... that is just headcanon with absolutely no support in the manga. We also see on multiple occasions that Dark Matter destroys human body if not counteracted by Innocence, so it is outright impossible for a human body to have "some part of Dark Matter".
As I said... even if we ever do see whatever it was that a Level 4 would evolve into, I don't think it will be an Akuma.
As for humans being Akuma who turned into human beings... that is just headcanon with absolutely no support in the manga. We also see on multiple occasions that Dark Matter destroys human body if not counteracted by Innocence, so it is outright impossible for a human body to have "some part of Dark Matter".
As I said... even if we ever do see whatever it was that a Level 4 would evolve into, I don't think it will be an Akuma.
I can't agree with you here. Ticky Mikk called Dark Metter part of this world, while Innocence is not. I remember how people interact with Akuma, like Crowley and some other that can touch Akuma without dying. While it's true that Dark Metter can be used as virus/poison, but Dark Metter itself is not dangerous for humans. While Innocence is actually more dangerous then Dark Metter, which was shown from example by any exorcist. So it's not headcanon.
Crowley can only touch Akuma blood without dying because he has innocence in him to neutralize the poison.
Meanwhile, normal humans get killed by the Akuma blood:
And what are you talking about "touching Akuma" "not touching Innocence"? Akuma is just a machine, of course normal humans can touch it without dying! Normal humans also can touch Innocence without dying, that is the Finders' entire job description.
Innocence also isn't dangerous to exorcists unless they make a pact with the enemy. Hell, Crown Clown saved Allen's life on multiple separate occasions despite Allen being a Noah.
So yeah, it is a headcanon.
Meanwhile, normal humans get killed by the Akuma blood:
And what are you talking about "touching Akuma" "not touching Innocence"? Akuma is just a machine, of course normal humans can touch it without dying! Normal humans also can touch Innocence without dying, that is the Finders' entire job description.
Innocence also isn't dangerous to exorcists unless they make a pact with the enemy. Hell, Crown Clown saved Allen's life on multiple separate occasions despite Allen being a Noah.
So yeah, it is a headcanon.