Powers & Abilities Debunking Literally Every Argument Against Ryokugyu’s Black Blade UPDATE: Remembering The Fallen
- Thread starter Elder Lee Hung
- Start date
So by your logic zoro never use advanced coc on king . That what root beer argue for it.
‘’Second of all ,Oda never mentioned coc must have thicker lines, Yamato did before .
And we see luffy coc lighting from his feet which it is AcoC thing like garp have coc light in his hand .
Luffy already sky split before and is coc user .
‘’Second of all ,Oda never mentioned coc must have thicker lines, Yamato did before .
And we see luffy coc lighting from his feet which it is AcoC thing like garp have coc light in his hand .
Luffy already sky split before and is coc user .
I’m going to add this argument to the OP as an argument that I strongly believe strengthens the case for Ryokugyu having a black blade and forging it himself.
Post Chapter 1091 Update
After the events of Beehive, as well as the current events of Egghead, it’s looking more and more likely that Oda intends to make all Admirals absolute world-class Haki users. This heavily reinforces the idea that not only does Ryokugyu have a black blade, but he did in fact forge it himself as the other Admirals also seemed to attain world-class Haki levels by their own strength and not by stealing them.
Kuzan
Kuzan explicitly attained prime Garp level punching power:
Kuzan also matched old Garp in a punching contest:
I feel like this fact by itself almost singlehandedly debunks every single argument for Ryokugyu not being able to achieve a black blade, as Kuzan attained prime Garp level fists with all of the same restrictions/caveats that Ryokugyu has. Kuzan is primarily a Devil Fruit based fighter and yet still attained the punching strength of the strongest puncher in the history of the series. Similarly, Ryokugyu is primarily a Devil Fruit based fighter (from what we’ve seen) but he could have easily forged a black blade for the exact same reasons that Kuzan became tied for the best puncher in the series.
Kizaru
This might be a bit premature as Kizaru’s Egghead showing isn’t concluded yet, so he could show even more than this, but let’s do this anyway.
Kizaru trained Sentomaru:
Who has explicitly claimed to have the “strongest defense in the world” multiple times. And Sentomaru is not some ignorant island hermit who has no idea how strong the rest of the world is, Sentomaru was Vegapunk’s own personal bodyguard as well as a member of the Navy, even if his defense isn’t the literal world’s strongest, he is credible enough for us to assume his defense is world class.
Not only did Kizaru train him, Kizaru also shows a similar level of defensive prowess:
Now take this quote as you will but it seems to me like Kizaru is directly comparing his own defense to Sentomaru’s here, stating that he can’t let his defense be beaten.
Kizaru also, with one arm, blocks what appears to be an AdCoC blow from Luffy:
As the lightning patterns and “touching” appear identical to other AdCoC moments like this one:
It’s also not even clear if Kizaru is using Haki to block this blow, which hypes his defense even further (though, he is probably using Haki, I think).
So again, same argument. Kizaru is primarily a fruit based fighter but was still able to attain a “world’s strongest defense” level of Haki. Again, we can directly state that Ryokugyu could have forged a black blade for the exact same reasons.
Now, we don’t have explicit confirmation for the Haki of Akainu and Fujitora here, and while I could post a giant explanation for why these two likely have world class Haki levels as well, I want to keep the supporting evidence sections of this thread as factual as I can. I will edit this post and the OP in the future once Akainu and Fujitora get more Haki hype.
So all and all, it is really looking more and more likely that Oda is coming through on Admiral level Haki after all, and this is all just adding fuel to the fire of Ryokugyu’s black blade.
@SakazOuki @MarineHQ @Kurozumi Wiwi @The White Crane @Wuuuke @silverfire @scoobie3 @AkainuTheGrimReaper @Apollo @Admiral Mou Bu @ZenZu @Extravlad @kurwa @haxxor @EmperorKinyagi @Blackbeard @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @God Buggy @Sentinel @Playa4321 @Veku @Cinera @HA001 OF THE RAIN @Uncle Van @TheAncientCenturion @Bogard @comrade @ConquistadoR
Post Chapter 1091 Update
After the events of Beehive, as well as the current events of Egghead, it’s looking more and more likely that Oda intends to make all Admirals absolute world-class Haki users. This heavily reinforces the idea that not only does Ryokugyu have a black blade, but he did in fact forge it himself as the other Admirals also seemed to attain world-class Haki levels by their own strength and not by stealing them.
Kuzan
Kuzan explicitly attained prime Garp level punching power:
Kuzan also matched old Garp in a punching contest:
I feel like this fact by itself almost singlehandedly debunks every single argument for Ryokugyu not being able to achieve a black blade, as Kuzan attained prime Garp level fists with all of the same restrictions/caveats that Ryokugyu has. Kuzan is primarily a Devil Fruit based fighter and yet still attained the punching strength of the strongest puncher in the history of the series. Similarly, Ryokugyu is primarily a Devil Fruit based fighter (from what we’ve seen) but he could have easily forged a black blade for the exact same reasons that Kuzan became tied for the best puncher in the series.
Kizaru
This might be a bit premature as Kizaru’s Egghead showing isn’t concluded yet, so he could show even more than this, but let’s do this anyway.
Kizaru trained Sentomaru:
Who has explicitly claimed to have the “strongest defense in the world” multiple times. And Sentomaru is not some ignorant island hermit who has no idea how strong the rest of the world is, Sentomaru was Vegapunk’s own personal bodyguard as well as a member of the Navy, even if his defense isn’t the literal world’s strongest, he is credible enough for us to assume his defense is world class.
Not only did Kizaru train him, Kizaru also shows a similar level of defensive prowess:
Now take this quote as you will but it seems to me like Kizaru is directly comparing his own defense to Sentomaru’s here, stating that he can’t let his defense be beaten.
Kizaru also, with one arm, blocks what appears to be an AdCoC blow from Luffy:
As the lightning patterns and “touching” appear identical to other AdCoC moments like this one:
It’s also not even clear if Kizaru is using Haki to block this blow, which hypes his defense even further (though, he is probably using Haki, I think).
So again, same argument. Kizaru is primarily a fruit based fighter but was still able to attain a “world’s strongest defense” level of Haki. Again, we can directly state that Ryokugyu could have forged a black blade for the exact same reasons.
Now, we don’t have explicit confirmation for the Haki of Akainu and Fujitora here, and while I could post a giant explanation for why these two likely have world class Haki levels as well, I want to keep the supporting evidence sections of this thread as factual as I can. I will edit this post and the OP in the future once Akainu and Fujitora get more Haki hype.
So all and all, it is really looking more and more likely that Oda is coming through on Admiral level Haki after all, and this is all just adding fuel to the fire of Ryokugyu’s black blade.
@SakazOuki @MarineHQ @Kurozumi Wiwi @The White Crane @Wuuuke @silverfire @scoobie3 @AkainuTheGrimReaper @Apollo @Admiral Mou Bu @ZenZu @Extravlad @kurwa @haxxor @EmperorKinyagi @Blackbeard @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @God Buggy @Sentinel @Playa4321 @Veku @Cinera @HA001 OF THE RAIN @Uncle Van @TheAncientCenturion @Bogard @comrade @ConquistadoR
I think it's Haoshoku coating. It looks different from Luffy's prior attacks against Lucci or the Seraphim and it fits with Luffy's statement that he's a 100x stronger.
It would be thematically appropriate to back up those words with his newfound power.
And how it is coc by lighting thicker scale by what? Root beer argue it is not coc user by zoro,and zoro didn’t have it.
Amd Yamato didn’t know ACoA which she couldn’t escape the cuffs. Literally oda told us Yamato is coc user before .
And please show black lighting from zoro vs rob lucci to prove it is CoA or ACoA.
Amd Yamato didn’t know ACoA which she couldn’t escape the cuffs. Literally oda told us Yamato is coc user before .
And please show black lighting from zoro vs rob lucci to prove it is CoA or ACoA.
I don't think I was ever on team Aramaki stole a Black Blade.
I just objected to it being a Black Blade.
Other than Shusui, or unless it's mentioned otherwise in the story, I'd assume that characters we see with Black Blades forged it themselves.
If Black Blades are a COA feat, then there was never a reason Aramaki couldn't attain it.
Most of my resistance was premised on Black Blades being a COC feat. But if they're just COA, then yeah, Aramaki can have one.
Black Blades just won't be all that special.
I just objected to it being a Black Blade.
Other than Shusui, or unless it's mentioned otherwise in the story, I'd assume that characters we see with Black Blades forged it themselves.
If Black Blades are a COA feat, then there was never a reason Aramaki couldn't attain it.
Most of my resistance was premised on Black Blades being a COC feat. But if they're just COA, then yeah, Aramaki can have one.
Black Blades just won't be all that special.
To be honest, before Wano there are cases of Luffy causing black lightning when using hardening but ever since Wano started Oda has been extremely consistent with how his MC’s COA outside direct head-on clashes (that have their own visual effect), be it basic or advanced is depicted visually, here a compilation of pretty much all the moments Luffy used COA since the start of Wano :
Limb simply turn black. This has been consistent for basically 200 chapters by now.
I understand COC/COA discussions for secondary characters that are unconfirmed COC users as Oda drew the likes of Ulti and Jinbe black lightning,
But Oda has been keeping it simple for his MC for the last 5 years. Luffy uses COA : blackened limb only
Luffy uses COC : black lightning.
i don’t see any reason to believe he suddenly broke this pattern when he was still following it when he drew Luffy fighting the seraphims 15 chapters ago.
The explanation is likely that it is in Wano that Oda finalized how advCOC would look like and that Luffy would get it against Kaido. So when it comes to his protagonist whose abilities should be clear even for kids, Oda made the distinction between the moments he uses COA and the moment he uses COC clear.
I get why despite all of this one would be skeptical though, even as an admiral fan I never expected Kizaru to block an advCOC with one arm and not using visible hardening to defend himself.
But I’m confident, not because of agenda but because believing Luffy not using COA here is just believing Oda is following the pattern he has been consistent for several years by now.
Limb simply turn black. This has been consistent for basically 200 chapters by now.
I understand COC/COA discussions for secondary characters that are unconfirmed COC users as Oda drew the likes of Ulti and Jinbe black lightning,
But Oda has been keeping it simple for his MC for the last 5 years. Luffy uses COA : blackened limb only
Luffy uses COC : black lightning.
i don’t see any reason to believe he suddenly broke this pattern when he was still following it when he drew Luffy fighting the seraphims 15 chapters ago.
The explanation is likely that it is in Wano that Oda finalized how advCOC would look like and that Luffy would get it against Kaido. So when it comes to his protagonist whose abilities should be clear even for kids, Oda made the distinction between the moments he uses COA and the moment he uses COC clear.
I get why despite all of this one would be skeptical though, even as an admiral fan I never expected Kizaru to block an advCOC with one arm and not using visible hardening to defend himself.
But I’m confident, not because of agenda but because believing Luffy not using COA here is just believing Oda is following the pattern he has been consistent for several years by now.
CoC has more/thicker lightning.
Green Fraud doesn't have a black blade we already saw him against that fodder of RA , he didn't use it there while he was struggling and was needed to protect Mariegoise mf sweated his shit out and had his tree form getting cut around , and in the fight against Fujitora we got to see a panel of them fighting but again he didn't use the so called black blade Lmao .
If Black Blades are a COA feat they're less special than if they're a COC feat.
In the latter case, it's amazing that top tier swordsmen like Oden, Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger. couldn't forge a Black Blade.
In the former case, it doesn't matter.
COA is basically a poor man's COC at this point, so Top Tier COA doesn't mean much. See Garp needing COC for his best attacks.
In the latter case, it's amazing that top tier swordsmen like Oden, Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger. couldn't forge a Black Blade.
In the former case, it doesn't matter.
COA is basically a poor man's COC at this point, so Top Tier COA doesn't mean much. See Garp needing COC for his best attacks.
I think that was always the case my man. Mihawk explicitly trained Zoro to achieve black blades but Zoro had no clue he had CoC lol. Pretty hard to deny that black blades are CoA only.
And besides, didn’t Kizaru just easily block Luffy’s AdCoC this chapter with just CoA? Even @comrade is open to this interpretation. Luffy has never used black lightning trails unless CoC is involved or unless it is a two-way Haki clash which wasn’t the case here.
And besides, didn’t Kizaru just easily block Luffy’s AdCoC this chapter with just CoA? Even @comrade is open to this interpretation. Luffy has never used black lightning trails unless CoC is involved or unless it is a two-way Haki clash which wasn’t the case here.
Oda made COA not that special anymore with COC being a COA++.
So COA only feats just aren't important.
As for Mihawk and Zoro, Zoro still didn't know how to forge Black Blades in Wano, and he awakened his Haoshoku before he attains the feat, so it seemed plausible to me that COC was involved.
There's also COC being needed to tame Enma.
So COA only feats just aren't important.
As for Mihawk and Zoro, Zoro still didn't know how to forge Black Blades in Wano, and he awakened his Haoshoku before he attains the feat, so it seemed plausible to me that COC was involved.
There's also COC being needed to tame Enma.
Just because Luffy’s CoC > Luffy’s CoA doesn’t mean that’s true universally lol. Luffy has always been a CoC specialist.
Either Garp and Aokiji are using AdCoC here, or there CoA absolutely takes an exponential shit on Luffy’s CoA:
Meaning Luffy’s pathetic CoA is not the standard lol.
Because Enma is a cursed blade. Most blades are not cursed blades.
Either Garp and Aokiji are using AdCoC here, or there CoA absolutely takes an exponential shit on Luffy’s CoA:
Meaning Luffy’s pathetic CoA is not the standard lol.
Because Enma is a cursed blade. Most blades are not cursed blades.
In some way yes, it is and I understand, but having a legendary level of CoA is not a small thing because of that. Just like having an incredible CoO would.
If really to make a BB you need a very high level of CoA, so high that even Roger or WB did not achieve it, then it will be, and still is for Mihawk and Ryuma, an incredible demonstration.
If really to make a BB you need a very high level of CoA, so high that even Roger or WB did not achieve it, then it will be, and still is for Mihawk and Ryuma, an incredible demonstration.
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