General & Others Diable Jambe/Ifrit Jambe Apreciation and Discussion thread
- Thread starter Chrono
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Zoro and Luffy (and probably Yamato) only has fighting skills. Sanji and all other nakama are half-[insert role] and half-combatant.
Like Sanji, he gets cooking skills, smart brain, stealth, flight, invisibility, and many other life or utility abilities, as opposed to Luffy and Zoro who can only fight.
Wano volumes' Character Introduction Page reflects this more. L & Z are Ronin.
Reread the characters and the comparison attribute I chose. The characters are chosen because the topic is about AdCoC, and they're the ones who potentially have it. Then the attribute (among those CoC users) would be Blunt and Cut, Fire and Water.
I can put Brook Ice and Nami Lightning, but I don't think they have CoC (the discussed topic).
Like Sanji, he gets cooking skills, smart brain, stealth, flight, invisibility, and many other life or utility abilities, as opposed to Luffy and Zoro who can only fight.
Wano volumes' Character Introduction Page reflects this more. L & Z are Ronin.
Reread the characters and the comparison attribute I chose. The characters are chosen because the topic is about AdCoC, and they're the ones who potentially have it. Then the attribute (among those CoC users) would be Blunt and Cut, Fire and Water.
I can put Brook Ice and Nami Lightning, but I don't think they have CoC (the discussed topic).
By that logic doesn’t Luffy have leadership as well as his fighting ability? As his leadership and his ability to win over others is said to be his most dangerous weapon after all.
And weren’t they Ronin because they had no other role in Wano? Like how Nami was a ninja which is also a combat class but she’s not a combative straw hat?
And nah I think Usopp has a higher chance than Jinbe. Honestly Nami too
And weren’t they Ronin because they had no other role in Wano? Like how Nami was a ninja which is also a combat class but she’s not a combative straw hat?
And nah I think Usopp has a higher chance than Jinbe. Honestly Nami too
So you're saying Sanji is less focussed on combat just because he uses his free time to cook instead of just to drink sake?
I'm quite sure Sanji's fighting style is related to his cooking skills, considering the names of his attacks, so I don't really think by becoming a better cook Sanji is losing skill points that could be used to become a better fighter; One ability is related to the other.
I do appreciate the idea that Sanji is so strong despite fighting not being his supposedly main function in the crew though.
I'm quite sure Sanji's fighting style is related to his cooking skills, considering the names of his attacks, so I don't really think by becoming a better cook Sanji is losing skill points that could be used to become a better fighter; One ability is related to the other.
I do appreciate the idea that Sanji is so strong despite fighting not being his supposedly main function in the crew though.
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That's different thing. Nami can cook properly, but that's clearly not her skill Oda emphasize. Chopper can steer the ship, but again, that's not his skillset Oda shows. Everyone for sure have "other skills", like your Luffy's leadership, or Zoro's lookout job.
However in discussion, only their apparent/clear skills are significant. You can see it the way Oda draws panel and outline the story:
When Sanji cooks, Zoro exercises.
When Sanji saves/defends the weaker crew, Zoro does nothing/fight.
When Sanji on stealth, Zoro fights.
When Sanji do tactical actions, Zoro fights.
When Sanji fights, Zoro fights.
After the battle, when Sanji cooks, Zoro does nothing.
These things happened often, like Enies Lobby or Punk Hazard. Oda puts different emphasize based on their skillset. This is why we differentiate on Luffy Zoro as combat only.
Even if your Luffy leadership example, how often does he command others to do stuff aside from story purposes? In the ship, Nami does the managerial work. In WCI/Wano, Jinbe or Law plan stuff, etc.
Precisely. The two have no other role, besides combat. Exactly my point.
Also, Ninja is hybrid class, a huge part of their skills are for utility, which is recon and stealth, not just combat. Whereas Ronin or Samurai do nothing else except fights.
Yes, you can believe that, because they have their own reasoning/base such as Usopp's lies and Nami status as Original trio.
See, I even believe them as potential CoC users. However I used Jinbe as a nice poetic opposite of Sanji (fire and water).
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Assuming Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji has equal talent, there are things that will still differentiate their "skill points", which is time.
As we know, Luffy and Zoro stays at the same place in their early years. During that time, Luffy is practicing his Devil Fruit while Zoro is studying swordsmanship at his dojo.
At the same time, we know what happened with Sanji and his time. He used his time for practicing with Germa, but he also learned to cook. Then he escaped from them, going to different places, eventually learned cooking with Zeff while also practicing his leg style combat.
Now assume his time allocation as skill points distribution. Imagine if Sanji didn't learn cooking at all and uses those time to exercise his legs/body instead.
[automerge]1647560502[/automerge]
Assuming Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji has equal talent, there are things that will still differentiate their "skill points", which is time.
As we know, Luffy and Zoro stays at the same place in their early years. During that time, Luffy is practicing his Devil Fruit while Zoro is studying swordsmanship at his dojo.
At the same time, we know what happened with Sanji and his time. He used his time for practicing with Germa, but he also learned to cook. Then he escaped from them, going to different places, eventually learned cooking with Zeff while also practicing his leg style combat.
Now assume his time allocation as skill points distribution. Imagine if Sanji didn't learn cooking at all and uses those time to exercise his legs/body instead.
The only relations would be the fire. As stated by Oda, Sanji is resistant to his fire/diable because he is a cook.
IF Sanji truly incorporate his cooking skills to his fighting style, he would be using knives all the time. Basically Wanze fights for all of his opponents.
He would be the PRECISION type swordsman instead of POWER type swordsman like Zoro or SPEED type swordsman like Brook.
It's not about Sanji being "so strong", but more about Sanji being "SO USEFUL".
There is a gap between his strength and Zoro, that's because Sanji is useful in so many other things: like him defending the crew, bails them out in many occasions, saving their ass, etc.
This is why they're the Wings of Pirate King, not because of equal pure strength, but because of equal usefulness/importance/contribution.
However in discussion, only their apparent/clear skills are significant. You can see it the way Oda draws panel and outline the story:
When Sanji cooks, Zoro exercises.
When Sanji saves/defends the weaker crew, Zoro does nothing/fight.
When Sanji on stealth, Zoro fights.
When Sanji do tactical actions, Zoro fights.
When Sanji fights, Zoro fights.
After the battle, when Sanji cooks, Zoro does nothing.
These things happened often, like Enies Lobby or Punk Hazard. Oda puts different emphasize based on their skillset. This is why we differentiate on Luffy Zoro as combat only.
Even if your Luffy leadership example, how often does he command others to do stuff aside from story purposes? In the ship, Nami does the managerial work. In WCI/Wano, Jinbe or Law plan stuff, etc.
Precisely. The two have no other role, besides combat. Exactly my point.
Also, Ninja is hybrid class, a huge part of their skills are for utility, which is recon and stealth, not just combat. Whereas Ronin or Samurai do nothing else except fights.
Yes, you can believe that, because they have their own reasoning/base such as Usopp's lies and Nami status as Original trio.
See, I even believe them as potential CoC users. However I used Jinbe as a nice poetic opposite of Sanji (fire and water).
[automerge]1647560399[/automerge]
Assuming Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji has equal talent, there are things that will still differentiate their "skill points", which is time.
As we know, Luffy and Zoro stays at the same place in their early years. During that time, Luffy is practicing his Devil Fruit while Zoro is studying swordsmanship at his dojo.
At the same time, we know what happened with Sanji and his time. He used his time for practicing with Germa, but he also learned to cook. Then he escaped from them, going to different places, eventually learned cooking with Zeff while also practicing his leg style combat.
Now assume his time allocation as skill points distribution. Imagine if Sanji didn't learn cooking at all and uses those time to exercise his legs/body instead.
[automerge]1647560502[/automerge]
Assuming Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji has equal talent, there are things that will still differentiate their "skill points", which is time.
As we know, Luffy and Zoro stays at the same place in their early years. During that time, Luffy is practicing his Devil Fruit while Zoro is studying swordsmanship at his dojo.
At the same time, we know what happened with Sanji and his time. He used his time for practicing with Germa, but he also learned to cook. Then he escaped from them, going to different places, eventually learned cooking with Zeff while also practicing his leg style combat.
Now assume his time allocation as skill points distribution. Imagine if Sanji didn't learn cooking at all and uses those time to exercise his legs/body instead.
The only relations would be the fire. As stated by Oda, Sanji is resistant to his fire/diable because he is a cook.
IF Sanji truly incorporate his cooking skills to his fighting style, he would be using knives all the time. Basically Wanze fights for all of his opponents.
He would be the PRECISION type swordsman instead of POWER type swordsman like Zoro or SPEED type swordsman like Brook.
It's not about Sanji being "so strong", but more about Sanji being "SO USEFUL".
There is a gap between his strength and Zoro, that's because Sanji is useful in so many other things: like him defending the crew, bails them out in many occasions, saving their ass, etc.
This is why they're the Wings of Pirate King, not because of equal pure strength, but because of equal usefulness/importance/contribution.
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It's true there's a gap between Sanji's strength and Zoro's, and that's all the more reason not to think that he's losing strength just because he is also a cook.
The fact Sanji is stronger than Zoro despite being also a cook while Zoro is just a combatant is the proof that being a cook does not make Sanji less of a combatant.
Even if the only relation were fire that would already be enough reason to think there's a relation between his skill as a cook and as a fighter, and that's not even the case. Being a good cook means he knows more about anatomy so he knows better which places he has to hit to hurt as effectively as possible his opponents. Again, just think about the things he says while kicking people. And also think about the scenes in which Sanji was seen hunting animals to cook them. Having to hunt animals and beasts was part of his development both as a fighter and as a cook. What he said in Punk Hazard, while in Nami's body, that he's better than everyone else at swimming is another evidence of it; He had to swim a lot to hunt and find ingredients for cooking, strengthening his whole body in the process.
And even without considering all those things I still really do not see the fact Sanji is also a cook as a reason to think he is focusing less in fighting, because that's simply not how humans work. As you can plainly see in the series neither Luffy nor Zoro spend their free time just training their bodies while Sanji is cooking. Luffy just fools around and many times Zoro has been seen drinking sake as his way to spend time while Sanji cooks. Just a few times Zoro was seen working out in the ship, all before the time-skip if I remember correctly, which is not relevant in comparison to how much stronger they become as they fight people and acquire experience from island to island.
About their childhood, Luffy and Zoro didn't just train all the time either. Especially Luffy clearly also spent time playing around and having fun with Ace and Sabo.
I would even say that Sanji began in an even harder condition than Luffy and Zoro, since Sanji was expected to be a heartless soldier with monstrous strength from the time he was born, while Zoro was just competing with a talented girl. And even after Sanji went to Zeff's place it's clear that Zeff didn't give him an easy time. It's not that Sanji lost time of training his fighting skills in order to have time to learn cooking; Sanji made a better use of his time learning cooking during the time that he wouldn't use to strengthen his body anyway, while Luffy and Zoro just slept or fooled around when they weren't training.
I can make my point even more clear by mentioning what happened during the time-skip; Who do you think had a more arduous training, Zoro who could drink and have friendly conversations with Mihawk and flirt with Perona, or Sanji who spent those two years running away and fighting all those crossdressers who wanted to do Oda knows what with him? Sanji wasn't dividing his time between improving his cooking skills and training his body to get stronger; He was getting stronger in order to get the recipes so as to become a better cook.
Not to mention that all the recipes he got from the Okamas are to make food that have the effect of strengthening the body of the eater (most people forget this, but this is quite relevant), meaning that Sanji has been becoming directly stronger just by eating the food that he makes himself since during the time-skip. The other crew members have also been strengthened by it as they have eaten Sanji's food sometimes after the time-skip, but the amount of his food they have eaten is irrelevant in comparison to how much Sanji has eaten it himself.
And there's also the genetic modification in his body... All the time Zoro spent working out is irrelevant in comparison to how much stronger Sanji became just because of the awakening of his genetic modification. You can call it unfair that Sanji got a power-up in such a cheap way, but life is not always fair; It's not Sanji's fault that he became stronger without even trying.
So, yeah, there's really no reason to downplay Sanji's strength just because he is more useful than the others. It's really about Sanji being SO STRONG and SO USEFUL. Sanji is both stronger and more useful. And this was very well portrayed in the very moment that the monster trio was formed;
In Arlong Park Zoro fought the weaker officer, Hatchan (8000 Berries), while Sanji fought the stronger officer, Kuroobi (9000 Berries), while also having to carry the burden of having to save Luffy who had been stuck in a helpless state under water due to his own idiocy.
The fact Sanji is stronger than Zoro despite being also a cook while Zoro is just a combatant is the proof that being a cook does not make Sanji less of a combatant.
Even if the only relation were fire that would already be enough reason to think there's a relation between his skill as a cook and as a fighter, and that's not even the case. Being a good cook means he knows more about anatomy so he knows better which places he has to hit to hurt as effectively as possible his opponents. Again, just think about the things he says while kicking people. And also think about the scenes in which Sanji was seen hunting animals to cook them. Having to hunt animals and beasts was part of his development both as a fighter and as a cook. What he said in Punk Hazard, while in Nami's body, that he's better than everyone else at swimming is another evidence of it; He had to swim a lot to hunt and find ingredients for cooking, strengthening his whole body in the process.
And even without considering all those things I still really do not see the fact Sanji is also a cook as a reason to think he is focusing less in fighting, because that's simply not how humans work. As you can plainly see in the series neither Luffy nor Zoro spend their free time just training their bodies while Sanji is cooking. Luffy just fools around and many times Zoro has been seen drinking sake as his way to spend time while Sanji cooks. Just a few times Zoro was seen working out in the ship, all before the time-skip if I remember correctly, which is not relevant in comparison to how much stronger they become as they fight people and acquire experience from island to island.
About their childhood, Luffy and Zoro didn't just train all the time either. Especially Luffy clearly also spent time playing around and having fun with Ace and Sabo.
I would even say that Sanji began in an even harder condition than Luffy and Zoro, since Sanji was expected to be a heartless soldier with monstrous strength from the time he was born, while Zoro was just competing with a talented girl. And even after Sanji went to Zeff's place it's clear that Zeff didn't give him an easy time. It's not that Sanji lost time of training his fighting skills in order to have time to learn cooking; Sanji made a better use of his time learning cooking during the time that he wouldn't use to strengthen his body anyway, while Luffy and Zoro just slept or fooled around when they weren't training.
I can make my point even more clear by mentioning what happened during the time-skip; Who do you think had a more arduous training, Zoro who could drink and have friendly conversations with Mihawk and flirt with Perona, or Sanji who spent those two years running away and fighting all those crossdressers who wanted to do Oda knows what with him? Sanji wasn't dividing his time between improving his cooking skills and training his body to get stronger; He was getting stronger in order to get the recipes so as to become a better cook.
Not to mention that all the recipes he got from the Okamas are to make food that have the effect of strengthening the body of the eater (most people forget this, but this is quite relevant), meaning that Sanji has been becoming directly stronger just by eating the food that he makes himself since during the time-skip. The other crew members have also been strengthened by it as they have eaten Sanji's food sometimes after the time-skip, but the amount of his food they have eaten is irrelevant in comparison to how much Sanji has eaten it himself.
And there's also the genetic modification in his body... All the time Zoro spent working out is irrelevant in comparison to how much stronger Sanji became just because of the awakening of his genetic modification. You can call it unfair that Sanji got a power-up in such a cheap way, but life is not always fair; It's not Sanji's fault that he became stronger without even trying.
So, yeah, there's really no reason to downplay Sanji's strength just because he is more useful than the others. It's really about Sanji being SO STRONG and SO USEFUL. Sanji is both stronger and more useful. And this was very well portrayed in the very moment that the monster trio was formed;
In Arlong Park Zoro fought the weaker officer, Hatchan (8000 Berries), while Sanji fought the stronger officer, Kuroobi (9000 Berries), while also having to carry the burden of having to save Luffy who had been stuck in a helpless state under water due to his own idiocy.
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I dunno what bootleg you're reading, but if his leg was said to be "white hot", it would have appeared in the official manga, and the summary from Redon.
This is Redon's summary.
Sanji appears covered in flames in front of Queen. Then he kicks Queen.
Sanji: "Hey I'm burning already, so don't you dare add any more fuel to the fire!!
“Hell Memories”!!! "
Queen: "Guwah~~~!!
TCB likes to add their own spice and pepper
This is Redon's summary.
Sanji appears covered in flames in front of Queen. Then he kicks Queen.
Sanji: "Hey I'm burning already, so don't you dare add any more fuel to the fire!!
“Hell Memories”!!! "
Queen: "Guwah~~~!!
TCB likes to add their own spice and pepper
explain yourself better.