Chapter Discussion Did Chapter 970 ruin your opinion on Kaido?
- Thread starter Lion of Olympus
- Start date
Thats the thing that confuses me. How does something we know happened to him change how strong he is? Thats like using luffy being naive and then saying he's weaker cuz a character tricked him and hurt him. No him being naive is already there so he can't be knocked for it. Kaido vs oden was already over before it started. We knew oden cut kaido but kaido beat oden. Oden cutting kaido should change nothing about his power since it was something that happened way in his past. Id understand if it was current kaido but its not and he got even stronger since oden. That's why i said you guys are retroactively grading kaido as he grew into the character he is now ,while yall are trying to act like he regressed from now into 20 years ago.
Kaidou won against Oden by cheap trick and cheap shot. Even if Kaidou grew stronger since Oden, if he won like that then hypothetically if Oden is still alive now, he should've grown too in terms of strength. hence making the current WSC title useless since it was achieved by cowardly means along the way. That kind of thing.
In that scenario; Kaido won't take Oden with his dragon form again, if he was alive, since now he knows he can cut him.
He would take him with his base form directly without wasting his time with the dragon form.
And without that cheap-shot, we don't know how longer Kaido could fight with that wound, he could still win considering his ''immortal should be'' stamina. WB make Akainu run from himself / or paralyzed him in two shots. And WB's condition was worse than Kaido's.
He would take him with his base form directly without wasting his time with the dragon form.
And without that cheap-shot, we don't know how longer Kaido could fight with that wound, he could still win considering his ''immortal should be'' stamina. WB make Akainu run from himself / or paralyzed him in two shots. And WB's condition was worse than Kaido's.
Hypocritical doesn't matter cuz he's not alive. Even if he was it doesn't mean they would grow = to each other. Luffy was weaker than enel back is skypiea and now he'd neg diff him in just 2 years. How is the current WSC useless when oden died? Like i told sadistic senpai you retroactively grading him now off something 20 years ago. Roger didn't fight bm but stole then ran from her. Cowardly right so he's not pk and pk means nothing following you.
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maybe he could've beaten Oden again, but we dont know that. All we know is Oda chose to make WSC hit strong people from the back of the head to actually beat them. Oda choosing to make that flashback match settled by cheapshot while giving Kaidou WSC is a real bad narrative and consistency imo. It implied that Oda is not brave enough to actually settle things powerlevel-wise even if he gave hype such as strongest title.
PK is a complex title which may involve strength, cunning, wealth, luck, and fate altogether. WSC is clear as a day, it's about individual physical strength. Truly humiliating imo.
Kaido might not be the WSC at that point. Or not even a Yonko. So I don't think that would apply here, it didn't happen like 2 or 3 years ago, it was 20 years ago. That is a very very long time.
Kaido probably got his lesson from that fight, and he probably got stronger. The guy has 7 defeats. And he probably even lost after that fight too, so if Oden was equal to Rayleigh, as WB's right-hand, it's natural that Oden was also equal to a Pre-Yonko pirate who wasn't in his prime yet or didn't finish losing to others yet.
Kaido probably got his lesson from that fight, and he probably got stronger. The guy has 7 defeats. And he probably even lost after that fight too, so if Oden was equal to Rayleigh, as WB's right-hand, it's natural that Oden was also equal to a Pre-Yonko pirate who wasn't in his prime yet or didn't finish losing to others yet.
I don't even think the whole "World's Strongest Creature" has any actual narrative beyond portraying Kaido to be a thing of huge, abnormal strength for whatever reason to be fleshed out in his flashback. At this point I highly doubt there's any power level related reason for Oda to give him that "title" as he's just trying to lead us to see Kaido as a BlackWarGreymon, Mewtwo, etc.-like character (an archetype I've been defending for a while).
Oda changed his portrayal definitely. Which isn't a deal-breaker in and of itself. Some like that Kaidou has more facets than just being a brutish monster. Or that he exhibits malice and cunning, instead of just being a suicidal depressed alcoholic. It does feel like Oda either retconned the Kaidou of chapter 795, or he undergoes some major character development to become what he is now from what he was formerly back in 970.
But, it also begs the question - if Kaidou was capable of tactcis and strategic thinking and not just clubbing everyone. If Kaidou has an ounce of self-preservation and therefore would find ways to ensure he lived and survived, why then did Oda bother to split the villain role of Wano into Kaidou and Orochi in the first place?
I've argued this before, but now it feels like Kaidou and Orochi should have been just one character - The Yonkou Shogun of Wano who may or may not have eaten the Yamata No Orochi fruit and has eight dragon heads. He is immensely strong and at the same time cruel and cunning.
I mean there were previously legit complaints that Orochi felt like the real villain of Wano and Kaidou seemed relegated to being his hired muscle brought in as his bodyguard. Now Kaidou is revealed to be just as conniving but at least can fight, why the heck did we need a dud like Orochi in the first place again.
But, it also begs the question - if Kaidou was capable of tactcis and strategic thinking and not just clubbing everyone. If Kaidou has an ounce of self-preservation and therefore would find ways to ensure he lived and survived, why then did Oda bother to split the villain role of Wano into Kaidou and Orochi in the first place?
I've argued this before, but now it feels like Kaidou and Orochi should have been just one character - The Yonkou Shogun of Wano who may or may not have eaten the Yamata No Orochi fruit and has eight dragon heads. He is immensely strong and at the same time cruel and cunning.
I mean there were previously legit complaints that Orochi felt like the real villain of Wano and Kaidou seemed relegated to being his hired muscle brought in as his bodyguard. Now Kaidou is revealed to be just as conniving but at least can fight, why the heck did we need a dud like Orochi in the first place again.
It still works with Kaidou. A nearly dead Kaidou lying on the ground and Momo standing above him ready to stab him now he's completely vulnerable, Kaidou taunts him for being weak, and Momo fails to kill him or something...Or he almost does but Luffy stops him and says "you're no murderer" or something etc etc
Just don't think it was for Momo to have a target for vengeance. I think Oda split them originally to have the brute/strength x cunning/weak dichotomy for the villains. Some kind of twisted bizarre Laurel & Hardy show on Wano.
Just don't think it was for Momo to have a target for vengeance. I think Oda split them originally to have the brute/strength x cunning/weak dichotomy for the villains. Some kind of twisted bizarre Laurel & Hardy show on Wano.