Current Events Do Unearned Powerups Destroy Tension In Storytelling?

[matt245]

I have mentioned all of this about Luffy before. Luffy is the King of ass pull Powerups and Oda hands him victories he doesn’t deserve all the time. I didn’t want to repeat myself in this OP, anybody who’s followed my threads knows how hard I’ve been on Luffy the Pirate Christ lol.

Doesn't change the fact that you mention Sanji being "affected" by one yet you claim that every pu that Zoro got was an aspull. Come on at least don't show such a bias.

 

[Zenos7]

No Shonen ever written has better art than Kingdom, especially not One Piece lol.

eh this is largely subjective. Kingdoms art style is the single reason im not starting to read it. same with HxH tbh.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

eh this is largely subjective. Kingdoms art style is the single reason im not starting to read it. same with HxH tbh.

Still, I don’t see how you could argue OP has better art than Kingdom lol. 60% of OP’s panels look like complete shit to me. Only Oda’s giant double-spreads are passable and some of those like the one I posted above, look bad.

 

[JerAx]

Sun Tzu’s name had never even appeared within Kingdom until the late chapter 600s where one of his relatives was being discussed lol. This comment was written by someone who has not read Kingdom.



No Shonen ever written has better art than Kingdom, especially not One Piece lol.
Mid-level Kingdom Art:

Modern One Piece art:

really? this is the limit of yout comperhension skill? nobody said sun tzu had or hadnot appear. kingdom is heavy on war formation if thats not sun tzu wank i dont know what that is.

ah and speaking of unearned powerup, shin cleaving gaku ei is one no? I am caught up with this shit lol.

also I am not referring one piece vs kingdom art. thats stupid and subjective.

It is the worst among vinland saga/berserk/vagabond tho.

 

[Midnight Delight]

Why the fuck are you guys comparing a Seinen to a Shounen

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

really? this is the limit of yout comperhension skill? nobody said sun tzu had or hadnot appear. kingdom is heavy on war formation if thats not sun tzu wank i dont know what that is.

Have you read the art of war? Do you know anything about Sun Tzu’s life? No part of Kingdom is Sun Tzu wank lmfao.

ah and speaking of unearned powerup, shin cleaving gaku ei is one no? I am caught up with this shit lol.

How the hell was that unearned lmfao?

It is the worst among vinland saga/berserk/vagabond tho.

It’s the worst among the literal best manga art there is? That’s hardly a criticism lol, Kingdom’s art is still better than 85% of all manga art out there.

You know what, don’t bother. You strike me as confused as shit so we’re done here.

 

[Zenos7]

Still, I don’t see how you could argue OP has better art than Kingdom lol. 60% of OP’s panels look like complete shit to me. Only Oda’s giant double-spreads are passable and some of those like the one I posted above, look bad.

I dont argue that. Im saying its largely subjective, and i dont like the style of kingdom and thats the only reason why im not reading it lol. If you like kingdoms art more than one piece, congratulations. I happen to not like it at all

 

[JerAx]

Have you read the art of war? Do you know anything about Sun Tzu’s life? No part of Kingdom is Sun Tzu wank lmfao.



How the hell was that unearned lmfao?


It’s the worst among the literal best manga art there is? That’s hardly a criticism lol, Kingdom’s art is still better than 85% of all manga art out there.

You know what, don’t bother. You strike me as confused as shit so we’re done here.

how is that not unearned? literally struggled before this instance, and how was he suddenly able to cleave him? oh he is in the zone lmao.

nobody had read the legit art of war, especially nerds on anime forum. I dont think there even is a legit translation of that thing.

see you agree to me that kingdom is the worst among other big 4 seinen.

you are just scared of being proven wrong lol

 

[Zenos7]

Why the fuck are you guys comparing a Seinen to a Shounen

because its not as easy to find shonen to make this comparison. i didnt read like many shonen, but all the ones i have read were riddled with random powerups left and right and the protagonists winning in the end. This isnt even exclusive to shonen, not even exclusive to manga. The protagonists in supernatural had to go up against god himself in the last season, and i never even once thought that they wont win in the end lmao.

 

[Welkin]

You can compare them to show the difference between an author who has meticulously planned his characters’ power escalation hundreds of chapters in advance (Hara), and an author who is quite literally making this shit up as he goes along and openly admits in interviews that he creates characters that Luffy will defeat while also having no idea how Luffy is going to beat them (Oda). Oda literally said that he had no idea how Luffy was going to beat Kaido when he introduced Kaido.

A series being fantasy or not has nothing to do with your ability to plan a characters’ development and power escalation in detail from the start. I get that OP was originally supposed to only be a 5 year manga and was artificially extended due to its popularity, but looking at a series like Kingdom, it’s clear from literal chapter 1 that Hara planned for the series to be a thousand chapter behemoth and knew exactly how the series was going to end and how he was going to get there. He literally drew Great General Shin in Chapter 1 of Kingdom so that we could see the massively epic character Shin would eventually become.

Meanwhile, I guarantee you Oda knew nothing about the power of his top tiers in early or even mid One Piece. Oda always holding back the full power of his characters might give him the appearance of someone simply saving the biggest feats for the end of the series, but the truth is that Oda has no idea what the power escalation in One Piece would look like even as far in as Marineford, where no characters showed colored Haki or Haki on the level we’re seeing now in spite of the fact that we saw top tier characters fighting at Marineford. Oda even confirmed in interviews before that he did not know how Shanks would actually fight. How do you make someone an Emperor without knowing what actually makes them strong? “Shanks is popular, I’ll make it up later!” Oda is starting to sound a lot like Toriyama who was making DBZ up week by week and had no idea what he was doing with the story.

Again, transition over to Kingdom, and we literally see the incredible full strength of a Great General in the very first war arc that we participate in. Hara knew, with exact precision, how strong his top tiers would be and how strong Shin would become, and planned this shit years in advance.

If Oda actually planned his Powerups out ahead instead of just making them up in the exact arc that he introduces them, OP would appear less of an ass pull fest being made up on the spot, and more like Oda is actually the foreshadowing genius that idiots think he is.



I have mentioned all of this about Luffy before. Luffy is the King of ass pull Powerups and Oda hands him victories he doesn’t deserve all the time. I didn’t want to repeat myself in this OP, anybody who’s followed my threads knows how hard I’ve been on Luffy the Pirate Christ lol.

I love Kingdom but this is bullshit lmao

If you're gonna talk about a series with good power scaling then don't bring up Kingdom of all series

Kyoukai somehow managing to do life altering damage to Houken by using some weird breathing magic demon technique? Shin slicing Houken (peak of martial arts in Kingdom and the same guy who beat Ou Ki with a bit of help) in 2 in his early to mid 20's is good power escalation?

I know the whole fight was supposed to represent "weight" and why Houken was never able to reach the next level (did a pretty good job at that) but looking at it from a power scaling perspective makes the fight really weird

 

[JerAx]

I love Kingdom but this is bullshit lmao

If you're gonna talk about a series with good power scaling then don't bring up Kingdom of all series

Kyoukai somehow managing to do life altering damage to Houken by using some weird breathing magic demon technique? Shin slicing Houken (peak of martial arts in Kingdom and the same guy who beat Ou Ki with a bit of help) in 2 in his early to mid 20's is good power escalation?

I know the whole fight was supposed to represent "weight" and why Houken was never able to reach the next level (did a pretty good job at that) but looking at it from a power scaling perspective makes the fight really weird

See I know my kingdom shit @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

I was going to stop responding to you, but your comments somehow keep getting dumber.

how is that not unearned? literally struggled before this instance, and how was he suddenly able to cleave him? oh he is in the zone lmao.

What the fuck are you talking about lol? Shin fought Gyou’Un equally who is much, much stronger than Gaku Ei. Shin also fought Gaimou equally two years before, who would slay Gaku Ei easily. You haven’t read Kingdom, don’t lie.

nobody had read the legit art of war, especially nerds on anime forum. I

Then how do you know Kingdom is Sun Tzu wank if you haven’t read his work? Lmfao

And I have read the Art of War for the record. An English translation at least. The book is extremely short.

see you agree to me that kingdom is the worst among other big 4 seinen.

Yes, all of which shit on most other manga in art. Kingdom is among the worst best-manga in art, making it by default better than most manga’s art.

But I’m putting you on ignore now because you’re either a troll or have legit issues.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2021

Kyoukai somehow managing to do life altering damage to Houken by using some weird breathing magic demon technique?

Huh? All she did was slice him a few times lol. And even if what you said was true (it’s not), how would that be bad power escalation exactly? Kyoukai has always been freakishly strong lol.

Shin slicing Houken (peak of martial arts in Kingdom and the same guy who beat Ou Ki with a bit of help) in 2 in his early to mid 20's is good power escalation?

If you look at Shin’s power progression in detail, which I will not reference here, then yes this was perfect power escalation.

Also, Ouki would’ve killed Houken twice when they fought if not for interference. Not sure why you ignored that detail lol.

You even debunked your own criticisms in the same post you made them:

I know the whole fight was supposed to represent "weight" and why Houken was never able to reach the next level (did a pretty good job at that)

 

[JerAx]

I was going to stop responding to you, but your comments somehow keep getting dumber.



What the fuck are you talking about lol? Shin fought Gyou’Un equally who is much, much stronger than Gaku Ei. Shin also fought Gaimou equally two years before, who would slay Gaku Ei easily. You haven’t read Kingdom, don’t lie.



Then how do you know Kingdom is Sun Tzu wank if you haven’t read his work? Lmfao

And I have read the Art of War for the record. An English translation at least. The book is extremely short.



Yes, all of which shit on most other manga in art. Kingdom is among the worst best-manga in art, making it by default better than most manga’s art.

But I’m putting you on ignore now because you’re either a troll or have legit issues.

art of war is incredibly short?
oh wow you managed to sound even way dumber. you sure you are not just reading quote compilation?

yeah so you are agree with me. at no point I bring kingdom outside the big4 prespective. also " among the worst best-selling manga in art" wtf is that even mean? if you are bringing sales, that means kny'sart is better by your definition?

Then how do you know Kingdom is Sun Tzu wank if you haven’t read his work? Lmfao

really? a military manga heavy with war concept and war strategy is not a sun tzu wank?

ah but you ignored me lol. what a chicken

 

[Midnight Delight]

Even FMA, the shounen that a lot of people put on a pedestal had zero tensions. Especially by the time Envy was getting bullied by Mustang

 

[Topi Jerami]

Kingdom's battlefield is like every character (strategiests) trying to outsmart each other
While One Piss' battlefield is like a circus show where every characters trying to outdumb each other.

 

[JerAx]

yeah this is ultra stupid.
I have a big problem if seinen is not doom and gloom bleak and everything seems like despair.

I have a way bigger problem if shonen is too calculated and not fun

honestly, OP being a big kingdom nerd kinda explained every takes he has about one piece to me lmao

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

I don't think everything need to have a rational explanation, surprises can be good. My major problem is when power-ups don't have any ceiling. That's why I'm not fancy of haki bloom Luffy keeps getting.

 

[JerAx]

lol topi goblog joining in adult's conversation

 

[Edogawa]

I think the main problem concerning Wano's power-creep was when Kaido 1-shotted Luffy, since it showed the gap was way too big and there was no coherent way for Luffy to close it within the same arc, but he did anyways via illogical reasons you listed. Had the 1st Kaido vs Luffy fight went on for a bit with mid difficulty at least, it would have somewhat made sense how Luffy can now match Kaido. But that explanation was for Luffy. On the other hand, Sanji was straight up asspull out of nowhere.

 

[Midnight Delight]

I think the main problem concerning Wano's power-creep was when Kaido 1-shotted Luffy, since it showed the gap was way too big and there was no coherent way for Luffy to close it within the same arc, but he did anyways via illogical reasons you listed. Had the 1st Kaido vs Luffy fight went on for a bit with mid difficulty at least, it would have somewhat made sense how Luffy can now match Kaido. But that explanation was for Luffy. On the other hand, Sanji was straight up asspull out of nowhere.

Luffy didn't use FS at the time