Character Discussion Doflamingo vs Katakuri character-wise

[Fn Lucci]

I always call this guy the hapless Frenchman so this perfectly empty response fits your variation of Zoro's name.

Luffy's allies were literally pointing rocket launchers at Big Mom and purposely breaking Mother Caramel's photo in order to kill Big Mom. Perospero even assumed that the wedding cake was poisoned. Why would they not assume that Luffy's intention wasn't to hurt heir family?

I was waiting for someone to mention these examples that came before Luffy met Katakuri or in Pero's case, are completely unrelated. Luffy's intuitive response that impressed Rayleigh was being able to pick up on observation Haki by getting to know his opponent. Katakuri is the damn master of that ability, so maybe he actually knows something about this?

I mean maybe I'm just reading between the lines, or maybe those are actually the lines... you know, like where Luffy impresses Katakuri to the point where he starts seeing them as equals and finds satisfaction in letting Luffy go. "Oh b-but he doesn't want to his family hurt that's bad writing" HELLO, Luffy doesn't actually harm anyone afterwards, he goes about escaping. He says he'll one day beat Big Mom who...

fucking hurts the Charlotte family. I dunno if you remember Moscato or anything.

 

[Shelby]

I was waiting for someone to mention these examples that came before Luffy met Katakuri

Katakuri met Luffy before any of those events I stated took place, what are you talking about?

 

[Fn Lucci]

Yeah I originally said "actually met" but figured that sounded redundant because I tend to use a lot of adverbs. But that was assuming you knew the difference between seeing some dude at a party and interacting with them one on one over the course of hours. If you look back, what I said was "became pretty obvious."

 

[Shelby]

But that was assuming you knew the difference between seeing some dude at a party

Stupid comparison because Katakuri had already attacked Luffy multiple times and was literally on top of him at one point.

and interacting with them one on one over the course of hours. If you look back, what I said was "became pretty obvious."

So Katakuri is such a CoO master that he can figure out Luffy isn't trying to harm his mother but somehow needs hours in order to accomplish this? Yeah nice baseless speculation.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Stupid comparison because Katakuri had already attacked Luffy multiple times and was literally on top of him at one point.



So Katakuri is such a CoO master that he can figure out Luffy isn't trying to harm his mother but somehow needs hours in order to accomplish? Yeah nice baseless speculation.

He literally, explicitly says that he no longer looks down on Luffy. That change of heart sets a distinction between the previous events you're mentioning. The only real conclusion left is that he believes in the end that if Luffy is unable to surpass him, then he will not accomplish his future goals.

again, look at what I wrote. I didn't say harm his mother, because Luffy eventually plans on beating her and to some degree Katakuri believes it will happen. That's the basis of his last line to Luffy. Big Mom is a tyrant where Katakuri legitimately cares about protecting people, so it's not really a contradiction. However, Luffy's intention on WCI was to leave with his friend and the only damage caused was in defense. That is clear to us and evident to Katakuri by the end, who smiles at Luffy's escape.

And yes, it did take a long time for him to come around to understanding Luffy. Should it have taken less time? That doesn't have it make more sense. It's not observation Haki that allows him to understand Luffy, it's Luffy's actions. That's the whole point of the fucking Mogura scene.

But anyway Shelby, your issue with Katakuri seems to be your own poor reading comprehension, so I can't even fault you for fucking up on quoting me here.

 

[Finalbeta]

I think Doflamingo is a character we may have not fully discovered. I'm confident that Oda is not done with the man, and overall I think it's more probable that we will manage to unravel a few aspects of his past that might alter the way we perceive his character.

 

[Manoomar2000]

Katakuri had potential. This dumb respect/pride thing ruined him for me. I actually liked how he cared about his family and his people. Yet he goes out killing innocent chefs, shouting at his little sister that only wanted to help, and starts supporting the criminal that destroyed his country and beat up his family. Like how can you go supporting the main villain of your own story. Cause thats what Luffy was to Katakuri at the start. Then Oda threw the whole "he hates BM" hint at the end. Oda my dude that is not enough.

Katakuri's character is just not realistic. And I think Oda really wanted us to like Katakuri, so thats why he made him like an ally at the end. But its just plain retarded writing. Stop ruining characters and making them do stuff that contridicts how you previously written them. Please.

I still remember the day when the spoilers released of the chap where Katakuri stabbed himself. I was in complete disbelief and protected Katakuri throughout. Saying it was fake spoilers and what not. Until I saw the pictures and saw the idiot stab himself. Till then I was completely done with his idiotic character.

Seriously, this is just pure cringe and misunderstanding,

you missed the main point about respect , it was the leader’s determination , which was stated way before the stab and way before the donuts scene ,

luffy wasn’t a threat at the time, he was literally leaving the island , just taking his crew and leaving,

I really don’t know why people interpreted the last scene as katakuri hates big mom lol , it is like Aokiji’s justice , let him go for now , and when the time comes , he will face it , he can just poison her , but he won’t because she is his mother.

the stab was a moment of anger , comes from a man who suffers from his insecurities. He isn’t even a villain , how honor contradicts a good person ? Like wtf are you saying dude.

it was like hanzo vs gon in a smaller scale , he found that luffy won’t give up , while I totally agree about luffy having infinite stamina is bs , but all of what you said about the writing of katakuri is pure shit .

He is a well-written,complex , nuanced , realistic , and every other shit word you can praise a good character with.

don’t forget , after all luffy was trying to escape, he wasn’t a threat at the moment

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Doffy smoking on that mochi pack.

 

[Manoomar2000]

Katakuri is sort of a poorly written mess. When you look at his character in hindsight, he’s pretty internally consistent, but the timing with which Oda chose to reveal crucial aspects of his character that were massively important to his loss to Luffy, just came off as some of the worst MC plot armor of all time.

The Chadflamingo however, is one of the more well written OP characters there is. His motivations as a villain were crystal clear and perfectly lined up with his backstory (unlike katakuri) and I never questioned why Doflamingo was doing what he did because his established character (even from all the way back in Jaya) matched up almost flawlessly with the actions he later takes.

Plus Doffy just has that epic charisma. Kuri is more of a manbaby.

Doffy’s fight was also handled correctly power level wise, whereas Luffy vs Katakuri is the second most retarded fight Oda has ever drawn in that department (aside from Luffy vs Kaido ofc). You can’t just establish Haki as the counter to Devil Fruit powers, and then have Luffy tank 50+ Advanced Koka infused hits to his weakpoints without actually ever losing the fight. It kinda takes away the tension from future OP fights, knowing that the main character is more invincible than Kaido.

The only worse decision that Oda could’ve made PL wise, was to make Luffy’s ass-pull power up against Katakuri completely redundant by having him get low diffed by a Yonko afterwards. Imagine that level of retardation. Lol

Luffy had actual real stamina against Doflamingo. Oda had to start the fight off by having law weaken Doffy, as we know Doffy was just too strong of a Pirate for Luffy to defeat at the time. Then both Luffy and Doffy showed signs of tiring as the fight went on, even requiring Gats to carry him away for a little while so that he could rest before continuing the fight. This is imo, a proper way to add tension to a fight, because Luffy was at his limit and yet still had to find a way and perservere to win the fight anyway. Unlike in Katakuri, where Luffy is just invincible and nothing matters.

So yeah, overall Doffy blows Kuri away.

EDIT: well, this aged poorly lol.

Plot armor or not it doesn’t matter , he built a well written character that surely will come around someday , yea the infinite stamina is shit , but it doesn’t contradict kata’s fight , luffy was taking the hits like a bitch even after mastering the observation haki , luffy didn’t really defeat kata ,kata just let him go

wait , do you even know the meaning of asspull ? Because snake man and observation were well-foreshadowed

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I miss Doflamingo...

 

[Chrono]

luffy wasn’t a threat at the time, he was literally leaving the island , just taking his crew and leaving,

Yes leaving...after destroying his sisters wedding, creating and being the leader of an allaince that literally wanted to kill his mother, literally being the catalyst or being thought of being it for the destruction of his familiy....twice ( eating the cake and setting BM on a rampage and also being thought of being the man who blew up the chateau that nearly killed his family), attacking his younger siblings multiple times, ridiculing his family.....need I go on.

Literally never quote me with thie clown shit again.

it was like hanzo vs gon in a smaller scale , he found that luffy won’t give up , while I totally agree about luffy having infinite stamina is bs , but all of what you said about the writing of katakuri is pure shit .

Dont you dare compare it to that. Gon never did shit to Hanzo lmao. And Hanzo wasnt allowed to kill him. So Gon just never gave up on the fight.

don’t forget , after all luffy was trying to escape, he wasn’t a threat at the moment

Thats like letting off a runaway criminal who robbed a bank, murdered 20 people, and bombed the White House....

"Its ok guys....hes not a threat anymore"

Luffy wouldve come back to defeat the BMPs anyways. He was always a threat. Katakuri's inconsistent character changed thats all.

 

[Finalbeta]

Mingo is a God of grandiosity, everytime he laughed I felt goosebumps and his sight was just so penetrating. :cheers:

 

[Steven]

Doffy is Croc2.0 but in a worse way

 

[Manoomar2000]

Yes leaving...after destroying his sisters wedding, creating and being the leader of an allaince that literally wanted to kill his mother, literally being the catalyst or being thought of being it for the destruction of his familiy....twice ( eating the cake and setting BM on a rampage and also being thought of being the man who blew up the chateau that nearly killed his family), attacking his younger siblings multiple times, ridiculing his family.....need I go on.

Literally never quote me with thie clown shit again.



Dont you dare compare it to that. Gon never did shit to Hanzo lmao. And Hanzo wasnt allowed to kill him. So Gon just never gave up on the fight.



Thats like letting off a runaway criminal who robbed a bank, murdered 20 people, and bombed the White House....

"Its ok guys....hes not a threat anymore"

Luffy wouldve come back to defeat the BMPs anyways. He was always a threat. Katakuri's inconsistent character changed thats all.

Luffy didn’t do anything of that , yes he tried to kill BM , but he failed , he didn’t blew up the chateau , wtf are you saying ,

you are a moron , i told you the similarity between this case and Aokiji , he will be ready when he comeback ,

luffy wasn’t a real threat at the moment, katakuri took a selfish decision because his respect to luffy’s determination , but it makes sense to come from someone with conqueror’s quality who doesn’t even have a goal in his life , he respected luffy for having what he lacks , and if BM died , he will become the emperor and may have the goal that he needed

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

R2: Who do you like more?

R3: Who is more iconic?

I've added rounds 2 and 3 now.

 

[kumae]

Doflamingo is my favourite villain and the best so it's easy for me 😊

 

[soupongo]

Katakuri is sort of a poorly written mess. When you look at his character in hindsight, he’s pretty internally consistent, but the timing with which Oda chose to reveal crucial aspects of his character that were massively important to his loss to Luffy, just came off as some of the worst MC plot armor of all time.

The Chadflamingo however, is one of the more well written OP characters there is. His motivations as a villain were crystal clear and perfectly lined up with his backstory (unlike katakuri) and I never questioned why Doflamingo was doing what he did because his established character (even from all the way back in Jaya) matched up almost flawlessly with the actions he later takes.

Plus Doffy just has that epic charisma. Kuri is more of a manbaby.

Doffy’s fight was also handled correctly power level wise, whereas Luffy vs Katakuri is the second most retarded fight Oda has ever drawn in that department (aside from Luffy vs Kaido ofc). You can’t just establish Haki as the counter to Devil Fruit powers, and then have Luffy tank 50+ Advanced Koka infused hits to his weakpoints without actually ever losing the fight. It kinda takes away the tension from future OP fights, knowing that the main character is more invincible than Kaido.

The only worse decision that Oda could’ve made PL wise, was to make Luffy’s ass-pull power up against Katakuri completely redundant by having him get low diffed by a Yonko afterwards. Imagine that level of retardation. Lol

Luffy had actual real stamina against Doflamingo. Oda had to start the fight off by having law weaken Doffy, as we know Doffy was just too strong of a Pirate for Luffy to defeat at the time. Then both Luffy and Doffy showed signs of tiring as the fight went on, even requiring Gats to carry him away for a little while so that he could rest before continuing the fight. This is imo, a proper way to add tension to a fight, because Luffy was at his limit and yet still had to find a way and perservere to win the fight anyway. Unlike in Katakuri, where Luffy is just invincible and nothing matters.

So yeah, overall Doffy blows Kuri away.

EDIT: well, this aged poorly lol.

> he says this with a gigachadkuri pfp

Post automatically merged: Mar 9, 2025

Katakuri was a breath of fresh air for a few reasons.

Every one in WCI was incompetent, and even when they seemed like they weren't, their sole purpose was to hype their captain Big Mom (Cracker is an example of this, his scenes served nothing more than to hype up his captain and her territory). Katakuri was the sole character on WCI who wasn't just an extension or a hype tool for his captain. Since his introduction in WCI, all of his actions (and others who hyped him) were built for him and him alone. To hype himself and build himself, not Big Mom (in fact his hype was given a priority over her). Not just for strength but as a character himself, he felt real, like an actual individual entity in a massive crew where others were just nothing more than fragments of Big Mom and WCI scattered around in character form. Katakuri was gold among the dross, competent and distinct among his peers.

So Oda kept building him up, calm, collected, cool, the perfect character. His character archetype already solidified, his stock already on the rise....and then bam! We see this perfect character, sitting there looking like a goofball with his mouth wide open feeding on donuts with his back rested, akin to you catching your role model in their room masturbating. Butt naked and completely vulnerable. One of the most shocking moments in One Piece history, and the immediate aftermath was bone chilling. The calmest and most understanding character, seething with rage, brutally murders his men without hesitation. A complete 180, only Oda would have the balls to pull off something like that on an "edge-lord" archetype. Did he need this? Not really, simplicity can work wonders as well, he was already fine the way he was but just like that, this moment added layers of depth to his character.

Even before that though, in battle Katakuri was unique. Katakuri from the jump was treating his fight against Luffy as a 1v1 show of dominance, his fight started with him using Luffy's own arsenal against him but bigger, faster, and stronger. Absolutely embarrassed him off the jump. Aside from that, his unwillingness to let Luffy enter Gear 4 broke the meta. Finally an opponent wasn't all empty talk when it came to "not underestimating" Luffy. People love to bring up him doing exactly that (underestimating Luffy) by leaving him, but this was handled as well as a PIS moment could be imo. Burying Luffy was the convenient thing to do and the reason for doing so was because he had already tried to deal a lethal blow to Luffy with Mogura, but that wasn't working, so overwhelminging Luffy with his awakening was the fastest way of getting rid of him (atleast in Kat's head). Like any temptation or craving, Kat’s mind being preoccupied by his daily routine already running late, kept him from the patience he needed to see through to Luffy’s death (in the first place Katakuri had no idea how big of a connoisseur Luffy was, burying Luffy in food is only benefiting Luffy, most people would suffocate).

In stark contrast to this Doflamingo seemed like a contradictory mess. He started off the arc noting Crocodile's defeat, making sure he learns from the danger of underestimating his opponent, yet when the time to back that up came, he was letting Luffy power up in his face and laughing at it, and then even after knowing the strength of G4 and the risks of taking it on, he directly challenges it with a "my dick is bigger than yours" moment gearing up for a final clash, instead of using his head. Leaving his statements holding no weight, and falling back into the typical One Piece villain formula. Heck even before this, he had Law completely in his hands with sea stone cuffs, Luffy right there in front of him, and Pica at his disposal. What does he do? Lets them all free and starts a treasure hunt game. Only for Pica to get defeated, Law to come back in better shape with his fellow WG member. Yea so much for not underestimating his enemies. Doflamingo was pretty much a pseudo intellectual masked as a cunning meticulous planner, he came off as a bit of a fraud because of this.

Katakuri on the other hand, from early on in the fight had been laid down as a "fraud", the scene of him eating donuts completely laid the groundwork for a potential change in approach, because now we know he isn't exactly what we were made to believe. His entire fabric had been undone infront of our eyes, so anything from that point on was a question mark. Anything went. And no, him stabbing himself wasn't the real change, from the get go Katakuri was big on this being a 1v1 with him and Luffy [1]. So it was obvious that interference on that caliber was not going to sit well with him. The real difference in approach from the beginning and the end was how he let Luffy get back up and power up, vs earlier on where he refused to let him power up. But again like I said, after the merienda, anything goes. Half the reason he was ending the fight ASAP earlier was to have his meal, Luffy powering up does not help his case in his head. With all of that out of the way, he wasn't worried about ending things as soon as possible, his priorities and focus shifted. This falls in line with Big Mom and how her kingdom had been run in the first place. Big Mom does not have this many strong individuals under her because they respect her as a Captain, Big Mom is their biological mother, these kids were given no choice to ever be a part of her crew to begin with. The day they were born they were already pushed into this storm. And this really showed throughout the arc, with a lot of the crews loyalty coming into question. Her way of ruling was her own downfall.

All of these reasons are why I believe Katakuri's battle was more believable (no I'm not talking about Luffy's endurance, but rather Kat's actions) than the contradictory decision making Doflamingo kept displaying during Dressrosa. Both Katakuri and Doflamingo have badass character designs and swagger, but at the end of the day as much as a special case Doflamingo prepped himself up to be, he ended up acting like your generic One Piece villain, no different than his predecessors (Croc, Enel etc). The execution behind that is the reason I enjoyed Katakuri more as a character, he was truly a breath of fresh air from the norm.

But anyway I really like this explanation. Both are still to this day the best post ts villains

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

> he says this with a gigachadkuri pfp

Damn. There’s so much about that post I disagree with in hindsight. Lol

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

Are we now comparing:
- The kind guy who travelled between islands to save his 2 crewmembers, Buffalo and Baby 5
with
- The ungrateful bastard who killed his own chefs who just made him his favorite food?

Not to mention failed to rizz up his biggest fan just cuz it’s his half sister

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

I'll say this much only, if not for these two

Surviving WCI arc would've been impossible. These two alone made BMPs little bit competent.​