Future Events EOS BB > Prime Rocks and EOS Shiryu > Prime WB

[PuckTheGreat]

Let Sanji unlock ACoC then we can talk about his ceiling cause as of now he will be lucky EOS to be above King. And dont bring that relativity thing here, Zoro and Luffy have always been a level above Sanji. If your strongest attack in combo with 2 other characters can only bring an ouch out of Luffy, then the M3 relativity doesnt exist. If Sanji is unlocking the same powerup as Zoro and Luffy 2 arcs later than the relativity doesnt exist. Hence it is not outlandish to say that Zoro > Roger but Sanji < Kaido.

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2025

Odas word? Where?
I can say the same for other BBPs too? At least Pizzaru, sorry I meant Pizzaro says it outright

Sanji would be lucky to be above King Eos? My lord
There is no way you actually believe this
Not gonna dwell on it as I don't think it is worth debating.

With regards to relativity, I don't really need to say much as the narrative already does that for me:
"Monster trio" not "Monster Duo"
"Wings of the Pirate King" not "Sword of the Pirate King"
"Kaku - 2200 Dorki" vs "Jabura - 2180 Doriki"
and so on...
Level above Sanji yet they are called the monster trio
Level above Sanji yet Zoro always faces an opponent the same/similar rank as Sanji in main arcs
Level above Sanji yet he and Zoro are referred to as Luffy's wings
I digress.
On ACoC, I've already made my opinions pretty clear on this, with or without ACoC it doesn't really change how Sanji compares to Luffy and Zoro. Moreover Sanji has PoL, Luffy and Zoro don't. Plus PoL enables hims to do stuff that they can't. Sanji is outchea destroying lasers with PoL, is Zoro able to do the same with ACoC .
Also with regards to the ting with Luffy and Mars, this is a Luffy that shrugged off Boro's breath in G5 lol
That is also a Luffy that was also able to endure the heat from Kaido's Magma Dragon. G5 being able to endure Ifrit Jambe is not as big of an L as you think it is. G5 can literally do whatever the frick Oda wants it to do. Its no biggy.

 

[Blazing Lion]

Lol

Kuzan Is on paper one of the most important characters of OP. If there Is one thing he doesn't need, Is more relevance.

Idk why this thing about WB bites this hard. Kuzan Is a top tier, It's clearly the other big personality inside the BBP, doesn't follow BB (as WB didn't) and wants to be free.
Saying that if there Is a WB's parelell is him It's just pointing out the obvious.

More so since half of the forum already thinks WB betrayed Rocks at GV and the same half thinks Kuzan too has his own agenda.

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2025

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/odas-special-q-a-discussion-thread-v0-nl9w4d4181yd1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc6f85dbfcf0b4910c35a70a39a7fd8cf1fffed5

Like that panel implying Buggys relevance? Only two people from same faction are shown (Dragon and Sabo) rest all have their own agendas. You can add Garling and Shamrock? but that is unknown. Coby and Akainu are obviously not with same ideals and neither is Aokiji and BB.

And like I said the not following orders thing can be said for the other BBPs with Pizarro openly showing his desire to be the leader.

Half the forum thinking that WB betrayed Rocks in GV does not mean that shit is true. Are we going by popular theory/opinion being considered manga fact now?

 

[nik87]

i might have to disagree with your vast wisdom on that Nik-san

Disagreeing with me is futile, Mono-chin. You know this...
My wisdom of OP combat is supreme.
Every single Zoro challenge is a cutting challenge. Shiryu ain't different.
Even Pica who was hiding and could have been "CoO challenge" was a simple cutting challenge.
The challenge is to cut Void aka Nothingness.

No. All that means is it's yet another gimmick. Just like King, or Pica, or Mr 1.

The moment zoro figures out how to cut "the void", shiryu will fold like origami paper we from the rain. Meaning he would not be the strongest even if he somehow had this imaginary The Void power.

You can call it gimmick but if you cant overcome it, it wont help.
And just because Zoro, the strongest character in the show, can overcome it doesn't mean others can do that as well.
Call King gimmick all you want but he is tougher than Kaido. If you cannot overcome his toughness, screaming >gimmick wont help.

And then you realize that Shiryu will be unique and only he will be the Void which means only Zoro and Mihawk are capable of cutting passing this challenge and that means that the rest of the world is fucked or at least 99.99%. Haki bursters like Shanks and Joyboy might dodge this bullet but others would be helpless. And that is only if Shiryu is just that, a Void but I suspect he will be much more than just that. It is not imaginary Void power, it is just formlessness, a ghost body. Might be paired with clearance of aura, sound, sight and form considering that fruit is Clear no Mi...

And then if he parallels BB with multiple DFs, add a mythical Zoan onto his sword to make the life of his opponents that much more difficult. Shiryu will be stacked like no other, that is my guess. It is a narrative requirement for Zoro's future opponents where he goes all out.

 

[Blazing Lion]

Shiryu > Prime WB

 

[RayanOO]

 

[Blazing Lion]

 

[nik87]

Shiryu > Prime WB

 

[Blazing Lion]

@Dragon777

 

[Dragon777]

Like that panel implying Buggys relevance?

Buggy Is one of the most important characters of OP for sure.

Oda Is going to make him a pseudo pirate King if not a "pirate God" as he said back in Id/MF. He might even go to Raftel, fulfilling his childhood dream.

Obv. his storyline Is half meme and half serious, but he is one of the most important characters.
His antics already brought the CG in the OP race.

Only two people from same faction are shown (Dragon and Sabo) rest all have their own agendas. You can add Garling and Shamrock? but that is unknown. Coby and Akainu are obviously not with same ideals and neither is Aokiji and BB.

I agree: Oda showed the two most important, character wise, of every faction more or less.

And like I said the not following orders thing can be said for the other BBPs with Pizarro openly showing his desire to be the leader.

That's not like that. Pizarro obeys even though he Is a criminal, Aokiji doesn't according to Oda.

Half the forum thinking that WB betrayed Rocks in GV does not mean that shit is true. Are we going by popular theory/opinion being considered manga fact now?

Becuase we are specualting in the first place.

Basically everybody said that WB doesn't really fit inside the Rocks because of his ideals, and might have betrayed at GV. Coincidentally, the same Is said about Kuzan.
That Is becuase the position of the two is similar.

Shiliew can be as strong as Imu, that's not the point of what I wanted to say. I wanted to say that Kuzan's case Is similar to WB's in many ways.

 

[Blazing Lion]

Buggy Is one of the most important characters of OP for sure.

Oda Is going to make him a pseudo pirate King if not a "pirate God" as he said back in Id/MF. He might even go to Raftel, fulfilling his childhood dream.

Obv. his storyline Is half meme and half serious, but he is one of the most important characters.
His antics already brought the CG in the OP race.




I agree: Oda showed the two most important, character wise, of every faction more or less.



That's not like that. Pizarro obeys even though he Is a criminal, Aokiji doesn't according to Oda.



Becuase we are specualting in the first place.

Basically everybody said that WB doesn't really fit inside the Rocks because of his ideals, and might have betrayed at GV. Coincidentally, the same Is said about Kuzan.
That Is becuase the position of the two is similar.

Shiliew can be as strong as Imu, that's not the point of what I wanted to say. I wanted to say that Kuzan's case Is similar to WB's in many ways.

Just tagged you above in panel where BB is talking to Burgess about mistrust they have of Shiryu and Aokiji.

If you want to go the ideals route for Kuzan and WB differing from BB and Rocks then you have to show that. We know Kuzan and BB have different ideal no issue but then how will you reconcile WB being most likely the longest serving crew member of Rocks from what can be seen. We just saw him with Shiki and Stussy with Rocks and that was 48 years ago and Rocks disbanded after 10 years. So for 10 years WB had no issue with Rocks ideals? Or was he pulling Gin?

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2025

Sanji would be lucky to be above King Eos? My lord
There is no way you actually believe this
Not gonna dwell on it as I don't think it is worth debating.

With regards to relativity, I don't really need to say much as the narrative already does that for me:
"Monster trio" not "Monster Duo"
"Wings of the Pirate King" not "Sword of the Pirate King"
"Kaku - 2200 Dorki" vs "Jabura - 2180 Doriki"
and so on...
Level above Sanji yet they are called the monster trio
Level above Sanji yet Zoro always faces an opponent the same/similar rank as Sanji in main arcs
Level above Sanji yet he and Zoro are referred to as Luffy's wings
I digress.
On ACoC, I've already made my opinions pretty clear on this, with or without ACoC it doesn't really change how Sanji compares to Luffy and Zoro. Moreover Sanji has PoL, Luffy and Zoro don't. Plus PoL enables hims to do stuff that they can't. Sanji is outchea destroying lasers with PoL, is Zoro able to do the same with ACoC .
Also with regards to the ting with Luffy and Mars, this is a Luffy that shrugged off Boro's breath in G5 lol
That is also a Luffy that was also able to endure the heat from Kaido's Magma Dragon. G5 being able to endure Ifrit Jambe is not as big of an L as you think it is. G5 can literally do whatever the frick Oda wants it to do. Its no biggy.

If he aint getting ACoC he doesnt have the AP to damage King or even threaten King.

Yeah the M3 is about them being above the others not that they are equal or relative as you wanna push.
Conqueror Duo is a thing
Trying to argue same rank means similar power level? Are all the BB titanic captains equal? They have the same rank? Jack is also a calamity and has 1 bil bounty is he also same level?
Like wings means they are equal in power level, lmao.

Yeah is the PoL closing the gap right now? You guys have such loser mentality like Gaban only going for No.2. If you want to push the M3 relativity why dont you compare Sanji to Luffy? Because you know you getting clowned. Do stuff that lets you win fights, if you cant damage your opponent in a fight you aint gonna win, if your strongest attack only gets an ouch from your 'M3 relative' guy you aint beating them in a fight. You push M3 relativity and then bring about Luffy performing great against Kaido. Luffy saying ouch to IJHM is the biggest L to the M3 relativity that you want to push.

Sanji literally got one tapped by Zoro.

 

[BattalGazi]

Zoros equal shiki.

 

[The White Crane]

Tell me how will then BB surpass Rocks as an individual and as a captain/leader who aims to take the world? If you are saying that BB will only become stronger than Rocks/Roger as an individual then it doesnt make sense because his goals and rise required him to have a crew that surpass the previous ones.
You cant have BB above Roger/Rocks/WB but not have his crew above theirs and in this case Shiryu above WB/Ray.
This is a classic case of minimal panel time. I made a thread previously on how just one hit has sent Shriyus stocks to the bottom and yet when you look at it as a whole that Oda did that to save the rep of others. BB has many anti feats yet no one has any issue with believing he will be the strongest. Shiryu has only one. And that is not the anti feat that it is painted out to be. And we are basing everything on that one single 'anti-feat'. How would it have looked if Garp having fought everyone including Aokiji until that point was okay but Shiryu stabs him and then Garp doesnt even get any pay back. It would put Shiryus effort in achieving the goal way above everyone else combined. Oda cannot let that happen especially when an Admiral is part of the group.
BB himself is a sneaky guy, a coward, a planner but that doesnt dent his stocks. Shiryu is a sneaky, dishonorable, blood thirsty guy.

Only BB has to surpass Rocks. His crew doesn't have to surpass WB, Shiki, Big Mom, and Kaido. It's too late for that, unless you think WB, who could have destroyed the world, is really gonna be surpassed by a guy whose claim to fame is disappearing from relevance with no AP feat (like, even Morgan was able to hurt Garp literally).

 

[Definitivo]

Blackbeard's crew is the new bitcoin, they will receive a massive upgrade in the final part of the manga.

 

[Desolate Smaug]

prime rayleigh wear zoro cloth and young whitebeard dress just like janitoryu. also this is rayleigh upscale he definitely fought whitebeard over all these years of rivalry between rock and roger and even saue his ass everytime things backfired. Difference is rayleigh ended piracy when roger disbanded the crew while whitebeard without anx true challenger easily conquered the sea. If Ray Sama didnt whitebeard era would never have been a thing.

No he didn't. We now know for a fact Garling fought WB at God Valley. It's the reason WB says shanks face reminds him of that person and makes his wounds ache.

 

[Blazing Lion]

Only BB has to surpass Rocks. His crew doesn't have to surpass WB, Shiki, Big Mom, and Kaido. It's too late for that, unless you think WB, who could have destroyed the world, is really gonna be surpassed by a guy whose claim to fame is disappearing from relevance with no AP feat (like, even Morgan was able to hurt Garp literally).

So BB will surpass Rocks only as an individual and not as captain/leader and his crew will be full of bums. I thought you wanted a serious debate, comparing Morgan attack to Shiryu stab when the after effects are clearly shown. Tell me how strong will the FVs No.2 be EoS. How far would he be from the top and how much above others.

 

[nik87]

So BB will surpass Rocks only as an individual and not as captain/leader and his crew will be full of bums. I thought you wanted a serious debate, comparing Morgan attack to Shiryu stab when the after effects are clearly shown. Tell me how strong will the FVs No.2 be EoS. How far would he be from the top and how much above others.

No serious debate can be had with people broken by Wano...

 

[Blazing Lion]

No serious debate can be had with people broken by Wano...

Was it because of ZKK?

 

[Redboy776]

No serious debate can be had with people broken by Wano...

Lol if wano broke them, elbaf is making them revive the nightmare with talk about upgrading zoros already monstruous haki. zoro got top tier haki advcoc, developped top tier haki mode koh then advanced top tier haki mode dragon swords, now elbaf gonna create a pure advcoc based attack to negate devil fruit that got boosted by imu and upgrade pound hou to also a high top tier move. All these upgrade make sense cause whiryu is stronger than 99,99% of the top tier in history.

 

[The White Crane]

So BB will surpass Rocks only as an individual and not as captain/leader and his crew will be full of bums. I thought you wanted a serious debate, comparing Morgan attack to Shiryu stab when the after effects are clearly shown. Tell me how strong will the FVs No.2 be EoS. How far would he be from the top and how much above others.

Maybe you'll convince me Shiryu is stronger than WB if you can tell me how Shiryu can destroy the whole world like WB could. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.

 

[nik87]

Maybe you'll convince me Shiryu is stronger than WB if you can tell me how Shiryu can destroy the whole world like WB could. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.

Simple - you dont need to destroy the world to beat Whitebeard. DC stat is literally irrelevant.