Eos Sanji vs Mihawk
- Thread starter Fleet Leader Fenaker
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Here’s the issue which I’m trying to make you understand.
Zoro overpowered Kaku every clash
Sanji was overwhelmed by Jabra every clash
Luffy clashes equally with Lucci every clash
How is their Doriki supposed to be measured ???
The remainder of your post was answered by @ShishioIsBack.
If you still believe Doriki is viable then I see no need to continue this
Zoro overpowered Kaku every clash
Sanji was overwhelmed by Jabra every clash
Luffy clashes equally with Lucci every clash
How is their Doriki supposed to be measured ???
The remainder of your post was answered by @ShishioIsBack.
If you still believe Doriki is viable then I see no need to continue this
Why not because of swordsmanship though? We know full well what Zoro without swords and Zoro with swords is capable of.
He won't be able to throw off mountain busting attacks without his swords he would be able to with his sword. So swords give that much of a boost.
That coupled with his fruit ability which gave him the Tekkai ability with his nose (he was able to clash with Zoro's swords without getting cut just with his nose) only adds to the difference. But the main difference would come from Kaku's swordsmanship.
He won't be able to throw off mountain busting attacks without his swords he would be able to with his sword. So swords give that much of a boost.
That coupled with his fruit ability which gave him the Tekkai ability with his nose (he was able to clash with Zoro's swords without getting cut just with his nose) only adds to the difference. But the main difference would come from Kaku's swordsmanship.
Look the point I'm making is that the doriki measurement was to measure the peak of their physical strength. Fukurou never said "Lucci punch is 4000 and Kaku's elbow is 2200" all doriki was meant to serve as was to give us a hierarchy of who was strongest to weakest. It was never made to be this complex.
His swordsmanship doesn't really give him an advantage given Jabra can use tekkai while he moves so the effectiveness of his swords won't really mean much as all his big moves where without the use of his sword and other than amane dache(which doesn't seem useful in battle) and that move he used against Zoro's shishisonson he doesn't have any moves that where shown to be above Jabra's.
Also his fruit never gave him tekkai abilities with his nose his nose doesn't get cut as a result of using bigan.
His swordsmanship doesn't really give him an advantage given Jabra can use tekkai while he moves so the effectiveness of his swords won't really mean much as all his big moves where without the use of his sword and other than amane dache(which doesn't seem useful in battle) and that move he used against Zoro's shishisonson he doesn't have any moves that where shown to be above Jabra's.
Also his fruit never gave him tekkai abilities with his nose his nose doesn't get cut as a result of using bigan.
We know it does give him massive advantage just like how Zoro's swords give him massive advantage.
Jyabura being able to move with Tekkai was getting broken by base kicks of Sanji. Blunt hits are <<< lethal strikes so a swordsman who was able to produce similar power to Zoro would also do even significant damage to Jyabura whether he is using Tekkai or not. Even his Bigan alone creates more power than almost all of Jyabura's ability.
I should have made it "tekkai-like" durability. That durability is above Jyabura's Tekkai because he was able to directly clash with Zoro's swords.
Lucci who was significantly superior needed Tekkai in hybrid form to block Zoro's attack in W7 so you can get a better idea of what I mean
Jyabura being able to move with Tekkai was getting broken by base kicks of Sanji. Blunt hits are <<< lethal strikes so a swordsman who was able to produce similar power to Zoro would also do even significant damage to Jyabura whether he is using Tekkai or not. Even his Bigan alone creates more power than almost all of Jyabura's ability.
I should have made it "tekkai-like" durability. That durability is above Jyabura's Tekkai because he was able to directly clash with Zoro's swords.
Lucci who was significantly superior needed Tekkai in hybrid form to block Zoro's attack in W7 so you can get a better idea of what I mean
How bigan is stronger than Jabura's jushigan?
Kaku combines his nose with shigan.
While Jabura combines his claws with shigan + tekkai.
Nor comparable
Jabura also combined soru with tekkai, becoming faster and making evasive attacks.
Zoro is not a martial artist like Sanji, Zoro's movements are predictable, so don't compare them.
Kaku combines his nose with shigan.
While Jabura combines his claws with shigan + tekkai.
Nor comparable
Jabura also combined soru with tekkai, becoming faster and making evasive attacks.
Zoro is not a martial artist like Sanji, Zoro's movements are predictable, so don't compare them.
Pre-skip Sanji's base kick where far more relevant than they are now so that's not really a point against jabra plus blunt force and cutting force do not act the same against durable materials. Jabra's body is hard like iron it is far harder to cut Iron that it is to dent it. Kaku's Rankyaku attack's had no effect on his own body and Zoro's tatsumaki still could not break Kaku's tekkai so no Kaku's generic sword attacks will not hurt Jabra given that their tekkai's strength should be similar.
No Kaku's Bigan never created more power than Jabra's ability. like I said Jabra was more than able to replicate those feats
All these attacks are comparable with Bigan
Also Bigan is one of Kaku's strongest moves
No Kaku's Bigan never created more power than Jabra's ability. like I said Jabra was more than able to replicate those feats
All these attacks are comparable with Bigan
Also Bigan is one of Kaku's strongest moves
if you believe that Mihawk can land even a single hit on EoS Sanji you must be dreaming.
Mihawk could not hit pre skip Luffy or cut Buggy.
Sanji is way more evasive than either.
vs Doffy was a fluke. Sanji got caught off guard. it does not count. his emotions were still working as his genetical alterations did not manifest yet. this is still holding him back. without emotions Sanji would not get flustered over his crew being in danger and he would have fought Doffy properly.
its a shame that Sora saved him from being an emotional cripple with no remorse. I would much rather have Sanji get physical power ups than keeping a core aspect of his character, but meh. Oda is a hack.
Sanji vs Drake was also a fluke btw. he was not used to his RS yet.
Sanji vs P1 was a fluke too. and every other encounter were Sanji seemed like he was no were close to being top tier. Oda really is a hack when it comes to displaying Sanjis ACTUAL power level.
Sanji got this going for him:
- superior CoO then Mihawk
- superior speed then Mihawk
- superior AP then Mihawk (HM > Iceberg slash (which was Mihawks best feat (at leat for now (but I do not think he will pull a better one ever))))
- Zoros rival and Zoro WILL defeat Mihawk, so Sanji will aswell
- can cracks Luffys skull with 1!!!!!!! kick. no DJ, no RS, base flustered Sanji
- without his plot armor Oven would be in a wheelchair by now
Mihawk has never pulled anything of the sort.
his beast feat are outdated fights vs pre yonko Shanks.
YC3hawk loses.
Mihawk could not hit pre skip Luffy or cut Buggy.
Sanji is way more evasive than either.
vs Doffy was a fluke. Sanji got caught off guard. it does not count. his emotions were still working as his genetical alterations did not manifest yet. this is still holding him back. without emotions Sanji would not get flustered over his crew being in danger and he would have fought Doffy properly.
its a shame that Sora saved him from being an emotional cripple with no remorse. I would much rather have Sanji get physical power ups than keeping a core aspect of his character, but meh. Oda is a hack.
Sanji vs Drake was also a fluke btw. he was not used to his RS yet.
Sanji vs P1 was a fluke too. and every other encounter were Sanji seemed like he was no were close to being top tier. Oda really is a hack when it comes to displaying Sanjis ACTUAL power level.
Sanji got this going for him:
- superior CoO then Mihawk
- superior speed then Mihawk
- superior AP then Mihawk (HM > Iceberg slash (which was Mihawks best feat (at leat for now (but I do not think he will pull a better one ever))))
- Zoros rival and Zoro WILL defeat Mihawk, so Sanji will aswell
- can cracks Luffys skull with 1!!!!!!! kick. no DJ, no RS, base flustered Sanji
- without his plot armor Oven would be in a wheelchair by now
Mihawk has never pulled anything of the sort.
his beast feat are outdated fights vs pre yonko Shanks.
YC3hawk loses.
Sanji only lost 2 clashes against Jabra, and the same as Zoro, and those are not even "clashes" cause Sanji only blocked, with nameless kicks.
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-011.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0415-013.png
The same with Zoro.
Here blocking with his swords simply, like I proved with Sanji. He didn't use a technique and only used his basic strength, like Sanji in his fight where he "lost his clashes".
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0416-014.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0416-015.png
Or here:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0413-010.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0413-011.png
Or here:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0416-008.png
Or here:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0417-005.png
And like I said earlier, we can count as "clashes" when Jabra is using Tekkai. Because after all a shield can be used as a weapon to increase the power and the rival needs to surpass that extra power if he want to win in a contest of strength for example and Jabra uses this technique when he attacks to increase his power attack precisely.
So here we've got Sanji winning clashes:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-014.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-015.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-016.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-017.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-018.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-019.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0415-006.png
Ohhhhhh, wait wait, counting now it seems we've got something interesting here.
Zoro: 4 "clashes", 3 loses and 1 tie.
Sanji: 2 "clashes", 2 loses.
Clashes won by Zoro with a techique: 2 --> Ichi Ni Gorila, Tatsumaki and Tatsumaki didn't even make some damage to Kaku, he has enough time and strength to resist ir and run, unlike Jabra when he got kicked by Sanji, he received the damage quickly and didn't have the time to jump back and reduce the damage (like Lucci against Luffy for example).
Clashes tied by Zoro with a technique: 1 --> with Iai Son son
Clashes won by Sanji with a techique: like 7.
Ohhhhhh suprise. Pikachu surprised face!!
You are talking pure crap bro!!!
Sanji = Zoro and Sanji isn't weaker than him in attack power. Reread and pay attention at the manga and stop making a fool of yourself!
And ofc Dourikis are viable. Here wasn't proved anything about its infeasibility. Lucci didn't hit Fukuro with a force with 4000 dourikis or Jabra or Kaku with their respective douriki power. Fukuro would be put to sleep or to death if that would happened. They don't need to exert full force, that's the point of this system. He can meassure people above him in that way despite being much weaker.
That's totally illogical and that's why is 100% valid, because author didn't give a crap about this system being logical. It's only an invented system to say the power lvls of his characters. There is no point in finding its flaws.
This is only a desperate attempt by Zoro fanboys (most of users against it), because they can't accept the obvious thing about him being equal to a cook who doesn't train or doesn't have the ambition to be the strongest in something.
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-011.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0415-013.png
The same with Zoro.
Here blocking with his swords simply, like I proved with Sanji. He didn't use a technique and only used his basic strength, like Sanji in his fight where he "lost his clashes".
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0416-014.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0416-015.png
Or here:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0413-010.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0413-011.png
Or here:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0416-008.png
Or here:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0417-005.png
And like I said earlier, we can count as "clashes" when Jabra is using Tekkai. Because after all a shield can be used as a weapon to increase the power and the rival needs to surpass that extra power if he want to win in a contest of strength for example and Jabra uses this technique when he attacks to increase his power attack precisely.
So here we've got Sanji winning clashes:
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-014.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-015.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-016.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-017.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-018.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0414-019.png
https://s2.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0415-006.png
Ohhhhhh, wait wait, counting now it seems we've got something interesting here.
Zoro: 4 "clashes", 3 loses and 1 tie.
Sanji: 2 "clashes", 2 loses.
Clashes won by Zoro with a techique: 2 --> Ichi Ni Gorila, Tatsumaki and Tatsumaki didn't even make some damage to Kaku, he has enough time and strength to resist ir and run, unlike Jabra when he got kicked by Sanji, he received the damage quickly and didn't have the time to jump back and reduce the damage (like Lucci against Luffy for example).
Clashes tied by Zoro with a technique: 1 --> with Iai Son son
Clashes won by Sanji with a techique: like 7.
Ohhhhhh suprise. Pikachu surprised face!!
You are talking pure crap bro!!!
Sanji = Zoro and Sanji isn't weaker than him in attack power. Reread and pay attention at the manga and stop making a fool of yourself!
And ofc Dourikis are viable. Here wasn't proved anything about its infeasibility. Lucci didn't hit Fukuro with a force with 4000 dourikis or Jabra or Kaku with their respective douriki power. Fukuro would be put to sleep or to death if that would happened. They don't need to exert full force, that's the point of this system. He can meassure people above him in that way despite being much weaker.
That's totally illogical and that's why is 100% valid, because author didn't give a crap about this system being logical. It's only an invented system to say the power lvls of his characters. There is no point in finding its flaws.
This is only a desperate attempt by Zoro fanboys (most of users against it), because they can't accept the obvious thing about him being equal to a cook who doesn't train or doesn't have the ambition to be the strongest in something.
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