Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced

[Reborn]

Learning the flow of haki gives ability to cut anything yet nothing and ability of defection.

As Luffy practiced this, he instead of deflection, end up destroying collar from within. One can imply, that he infused his Haki into the collar, altered it properties to destroy it from within.

However, the same concept is inherent in making blade black. Through consistent use of flow of haki into blades through countless battles, the nature of the blade will permanently change making it harder and black.

So both breaking collar and making blade black is based on similar concept of flowing haki and changing nature of the object from within with difference lying in that former breaks it from within and other strengthens it from within. Thus both being placed as highly advanced usage of CoA

It's all inference if one use logic.

Yeah I agree with this. It was obvious when Ods linked ability to cut nothing and anything to coa that what Zoro did in alabasta was coa and coo.

Anyway, another interesting thing is that we also indirectly got told that Zoro has had strong haki since loguetown east blue and the fact that he was able to tame sandai shows he had good haki control even in loguetown east blue.

In the latest chapter, we were told by Hitetsu that Sandai and Enma are similar in that weak people can't use them. The reason being is that they suck the haki of the users dry and then ultimately kill the weak people cause they dont hahavhahave enough haki and can't control the flow to force the sword to give them back their haki.

In the past Zoro said sandai was a problem child as it wanted to cause bloodshed and kill.
Enma is a problem child as it wants to make large cuts
However, Zorovmanaged to take Sandai and even Emma.

So this ultimately tells us Zoro always had strong haki since east blue.

Yup! I hope that now people won't go around saying Zoro doesn't have advance usage of CoA.

 

[Guts]

One can imply, that he infused his Haki into the collar, altered it properties to destroy it from within.

However, the same concept is inherent in making blade black.

please substantiate it with facts and not your headcanon

:cheers:

Post automatically merged: Sep 14, 2019

It's all inference if one use logic.

Meaning it is not substantiated with facts.

 

[Reborn]

I have drawn the logical inference from the panels(facts) shown above where the concept has been explained. I don't know why it's getting hard to understand how logical inference is drawn. Oda won't spoon feed everything.

If people do not have anything as counter argument or something valuable to add to the op, then they better stop doing nit picking and stop quoting me. Thank you

 

[Shura]

everything else is fine and I will look further to read it but making black blade is so far is like putting hardening permanently on the blade...I don't know how did you relate this to destruction from inside out....that destruction from inside out is looking more like Gamma knife displayed by law

 

[Reborn]

everything else is fine and I will look further to read it but making black blade is so far is like putting hardening permanently on the blade...I don't know how did you relate this to destruction from inside out....that destruction from inside out is looking more like Gamma knife displayed by law

I explained it in my next post of mine. I will add it to op

 

[Guts]

everything else is fine and I will look further to read it but making black blade is so far is like putting hardening permanently on the blade...I don't know how did you relate this to destruction from inside out....that destruction from inside out is looking more like Gamma knife displayed by law

You are not seeing it because you as me is nitpicking to downplay black blades.

 

[Uncle Van]

No reason to disagree with this, considering applying haki to your blade was Zoro's most important training regime with Mihawk. So Zoro will flow his haki into the blade and it will permanently turn black if the blade accepts it. Enma is already one of the 21 Great Swords and might become a Supreme Grade with permanent darkness.

Luffy and Zoro are pretty much learning opposite usage of ACOA that compliments their fighting styles.

 

[Reborn]

No reason to disagree with this, considering applying haki to your blade was Zoro's most important training regime with Mihawk. So Zoro will flow his haki into the blade and it will permanently turn black if the blade accepts it. Enma is already one of the 21 Great Swords and might become a Supreme Grade with permanent darkness.

Luffy and Zoro are pretty much learning opposite usage of ACOA that compliments their fighting styles.

Thank you! Yesssssss...


Finally who understands exactly why I placed black blade and breaking objects from within together as highly advanced usage of CoA

 

[Shura]

I explained it in the third post of mine. I will add it to op

just gone through it....however, the blackening made the sword more durable and mostly unbreakable...other than that it is not offering any special qualities....at least I haven't seen anything so far from black blade thing like ignoring durability like "gamma knife" which is the basic foundation for whatever Luffy was doing....

Also can you tell me one thing

when an highly advanced CoA user and black blade user fight head on which one has more chance of happening?

1) destroying blade and by default user from inside out?
2) Cutting the user without touching him?

 

[Uncle Van]

Thank you! Yesssssss...


Finally who understands exactly why I placed black blade and breaking objects from within together as highly advanced usage of CoA

It's pretty simple so I don't know why others are having a hard time agreeing. Both are using their haki flow to punch harder and cut harder respectively. Both require control over their haki flow.....

Luffy's usage is pretty much ignoring armor. Zoro's usage is pretty much destroying the armor without damaging anything else. Hax vs pure raw power. Kaido has a giant scar which he wouldve have if only his insides were attacked.

 

[Guan Yu]

Imo, it's like these:

First stage of Ryuou is deflection or barrier, which was used by both brawler and swordsman. For brawler, the Admiral blocking WB's attack at marineford is the example. While for the swordsman, the example is Shanks blocking Akainu's magma or Kyoshiro deflecting 720PC.

Second stage is the penetration. This one is used differently between brawler and swordsman, though still the same concept. A brawler use it to break anything he wishes to. While a swordsman use it to cut anything he wishes to. Which both Luffy and Zoro has now capable of using their respective type.

Third stage is infusing Ryuou permanently. As for this stage, so far it is only seen being achieved by swordsman. Shushui and Yoru are the example of it. As wether a brawler can do the same thing or not, it's still remain to be seen.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

just gone through it....however, the blackening made the sword more durable and mostly unbreakable...other than that it is not offering any special qualities....at least I haven't seen anything so far from black blade thing like ignoring durability like "gamma knife" which is the basic foundation for whatever Luffy was doing....

Also can you tell me one thing

when an highly advanced CoA user and black blade user fight head on which one has more chance of happening?

1) destroying blade and by default user from inside out?
2) Cutting the user without touching him?

Higher Haki as always in my book.

Moreover we must know where making a black blade fits .

By having a black blade doesn't mean you don't have adv CoA is not locked .

It annoys me to hear black blade everywhere in Wano but not having a clue of its making.

 

[Guts]

when a highly advanced CoA user and black blade user fight head on which one has more chance of happening?

1) destroying blade and by default user from inside out?
2) Cutting the user without touching him?

One question why an unbreakable blade would matter if the advance COA bypasses the blade and goes for the body of the user?

As a matter of fact, Shusui will never stop Luffy's Advance COA attacks!

Post automatically merged: Sep 14, 2019

Third stage is infusing Ryuou permanently. As for this stage, so far it is only seen being achieved by swordsman. Shushui and Yoru are the example of it. As wether a brawler can do the same thing or not, it's still remain to be seen.

Shit now ... it is above ... Jesus @hades and I am nitpicking now!

See why this genius never ever counters my points.

Now it moved from as good as penetration to the third stage.

Because Shisui is such an uber power now and for the general context:

"As wether, a brawler can do the same thing or not, it still remains to be seen" - it does not matter and I am nitpicking.

 

[Shura]

Higher Haki as always in my book.

Moreover we must know where making a black blade fits .

By having a black blade doesn't mean you don't have adv CoA is not locked .

It annoys me to hear black blade everywhere in Wano but not having a clue of its making.

that is why I don't jump on making a blade black is a pinnacle of swordsmanship yet....I wait for some more info

 

[Finalbeta]

Rayleigh told it, you need to train your spirit if you want to strengthen your Haki :cheers:

 

[ShadyOjiro]

that is why I don't jump on making a blade black is a pinnacle of swordsmanship yet....I wait for some more info

I think having only two in these 900+ chapter of story tells us that is something unique to get or even see....it's more rare than CoC even.


About if it's the pinacle ....

I consider Haki the pinacle of fights in OP.
And a Swordman who wants to cut everything defo must have the best CoA.

So if black blades indeed are heavily linked to CoA then it would be pinacle but again we have so few data yet.

 

[Reborn]

just gone through it....however, the blackening made the sword more durable and mostly unbreakable...other than that it is not offering any special qualities....at least I haven't seen anything so far from black blade thing like ignoring durability like "gamma knife" which is the basic foundation for whatever Luffy was doing....

Also can you tell me one thing

when an highly advanced CoA user and black blade user fight head on which one has more chance of happening?

1) destroying blade and by default user from inside out?
2) Cutting the user without touching him?

I appreciate such remarks. Thank you for taking interest.

Please read @Van and @Guan Yu post who clarifies it more simply than I did. (I should have expressed it more clearly) my bad here lol

And, yes I agree with both van and guan. Though guan, I won't classify it in stages but simply as basic, advanced and highly advanced on the basis of what manga has provided. Thank you once again for providing inputs. It helped me understand this concept better.

 

[Guts]

that is why I don't jump on making a blade black is a pinnacle of swordsmanship yet....I wait for some more info

The same here, I said it might be higher then what Luffy has done.

 

[Reborn]

I think having only two in these 900+ chapter of story tells us that is something unique to get or even see....it's more rare than CoC even.


About if it's the pinacle ....

I consider Haki the pinacle of fights in OP.
And a Swordman who wants to cut everything defo must have the best CoA.

So if black blades indeed are heavily linked to CoA then it would be pinacle but again we have so few data yet.

The reasons black blade is being placed as top are

1)only two swordsmen have it - one has title of WSS and other the title of sword god. Both can be considered as on top of swordsmen in their era.

2)the process is much more difficult and require more practice and training because one cannot make blade black in just few days. It happens after consistently infusing CoA into blade through countless battles.

3)it upgrades the sword permanently unlike other CoA usage

 

[Guan Yu]

I appreciate such remarks. Thank you for taking interest.

Please read @Van and @Guan Yu post who clarifies it more simply than I did. (I should have expressed it more clearly) my bad here lol

And, yes I agree with both van and guan. Though guan, I won't classify it in stages but simply as basic, advanced and highly advanced on the basis of what manga has provided. Thank you once again for providing inputs. It helped me understand this concept better.

Well, I suppose dividing it into stage would allows it to be read more easily. :yasu: