Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced

[ImmaIvanoM]

I've seen it stated as some kind of common consensus that "Ryuo is just the Wano name of Armament Haki like how Mantra is just the Skypiea name of Observation Haki"

This statement isn't true. Mantra is just the Skypiea name of observation haki because there's a panel in the manga saying just that.

On the other hand, the panels supposedly saying Ryuo is just Armament haki is this.

As you can see, Ryuo is Armament Haki focused on FLOW. As in, Just armament haki isn't a thing in Wano. By that I mean there is no name for just armament haki. It becomes Ryuo when the armament haki FLOWS.

This doesn't mean people literally can't use basic armament haki in Wano. They just don't have a name for it. What they actually care about to name is FLOWING armament haki. And why do they do this? Because they are all Swordsmen.

Armament haki is used for fighting. And everybody in Wano fights with swords. Even Kawamatsu who is introduced as a sumo wrestler still fights with swords. Therefore, by default, armament haki MUST be used on swords for Wano people to be useful in combat.

And making your Armament Haki FLOW into your sword is Ryuo.

So basically, Luffy having basic armament haki isn't a concept people in Wano have a name for since nobody fights without weapons in Wano. Hell in Ringo, people are literally given swords at birth just to emphasise how much everybody is a swordsman. Of course even Wano people need to know basic armament first before they can make it FLOW but since nobody uses basic armament in combat, there's no name for it. When the Haki can FLOW into your sword, then it can be used in combat and so then it becomes Ryou.

Even when Hyogoro beats Alpacaman unarmed using "barrier haki", it's still the same concept of FLOW. The haki is flowing outward from Hyogoro in the same way it would when he's putting it into his swords but since there's no sword it just forms a haki barrier in the air. Or it enters something to dismantle it from within. The point is when Armament Haki flows, that's when it's Ryou.

Therefore Ryuo is in fact Advanced Armament Haki since it isn't just basic armament haki. It's flowing armament haki.

And the reason Wano people immediately jump to Advanced haki techniques when learning haki, is because they all need the advanced version to fight. They are all swordsmen. Them learning basic armament is useless so they immediately require knowledge of Ryuo, Flowing Armament haki to put haki in their swords.

 

[MarineHQ]

Yes, that's how i got it as well.

"Ryou", for the outside world, is the second stage of CoA, out of three. While for the Samurai in Wano "Ryou" is the first and only use of Haki because they only use it in combination with their swords.

Though, i think that doesn't mean that their basic armament is automatically tougher than those who haven't learned the second stage.

It seems like u can choose a specific stage and train that to perfection, similar how Vergo has beastly Armament, but no "Ryou" as far as we know.

 

[Rmstorm]

Amazon lily are also a whole Island of Advanced Armament Haki users, that they use in everyday life. I guess Luffy has alway been good with flow armament Haki since Gear 4 Boundman relies on that, in addition to muscles control to work. Even Gear 2 relies on the concept of flow.

Luffy using haki on his elastic body and expanding it with Gear 3 + Haki relies on flow.

 

[Lifeismeh]

Yes, we can say Ryou is a different and specific use of Armament haki, and its mostly skill based since it just depand on how you control the flowing of your haki

How effective it is could depand on strong will as well, a swordsman can cut steel if he wanted too according to Wano people could refer to that

 

[Midnight Delight]

So all swordmen have Ryou?

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

But you can blacken any weapon with basic armament, can't you? Tons of characters didn't seem to need "flowing haki" to pass their armament to a weapon.

 

[Finalbeta]

So all swordmen have Ryou?

Sorrowfully not everyone does. Haki is potentially unlockable by anyone, in that case yes, all share the potential

So it entirely depends on perspectives :)

We could say that Luffy had CoC since he was a newborn, that is correct and incorrect at the same time. Same applies with general haki, except everyone can unlock it. No exceptions.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Amazon lily are also a whole Island of Advanced Armament Haki users, that they use in everyday life. I guess Luffy has alway been good with flow armament Haki since Gear 4 Boundman relies on that, in addition to muscles control to work. Even Gear 2 relies on the concept of flow.

Luffy using haki on his elastic body and expanding it with Gear 3 + Haki relies on flow.

No Luffy has never managed to do Ryuo before this arc

The haki must FLOW out of his body for it to be Ryuo.

Luffy choosing a body part to put haki on isn't the same as Ryuo. The haki is still just on his body.

 

[Rmstorm]

No Luffy has never managed to do Ryuo before this arc

The haki must FLOW out of his body for it to be Ryuo.

Luffy choosing a body part to put haki on isn't the same as Ryuo. The haki is still just on his body.

His Gear 4th Flame Pattern Haki is a fusion of his Devil Fruit and Armament Haki. Doflamingo was even suprised that fusing of Armament haki and Devil fruit was even possible. Only Katakuri and Big Mom have been shown to do this.

Hyougoro also said Luffy had mastered the usage of flow haki unconciously which is why he could use the highest level of it, Internal Destrucrion Haki.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

But you can blacken any weapon with basic armament, can't you? Tons of characters didn't seem to need "flowing haki" to pass their armament to a weapon.

@Charlotte Horchata char

The point is that Any haki that flows from outside your body is autatically Ryuo.

When Vergo made his haki flow out of his body into his bamboo stick and the stick became BLACK then that was Ryuo.

When Zoro flowed his Haki intosent an air slash that cut Monet's face, that's Ryuo

When Tashigi's Haki flows into her sword even when the sword DOES NOT BLACKEN, that's Ryuo.

When Boa Marigold and Sentomaru flow their Haki out into the Air and form a shield, thats Ryuo.

When Rayleigh and Luffy flow their haki out into and object and erupt it from within, thats Ryuo.

If armament haki flows out of the Body in any shape or form, it's Ryuo

Post automatically merged: Aug 13, 2020

His Gear 4th Flame Pattern Haki is a fusion of his Devil Fruit and Armament Haki. Doflamingo was even suprised that fusing of Armament haki and Devil fruit was even possible. Only Katakuri and Big Mom have been shown to do this.

Hyougoro also said Luffy had mastered the usage of flow haki unconciously which is why he could use the highest level of it, Internal Destrucrion Haki.

The flame patterns are on his body so that's not Ryuo. The haki did not floe out of his body.

Luffy mastered Ryuo very fast in want because he's the MC. Not because he had already done it before. Luffy has never been shown putting haki outside his body until Want.

Post automatically merged: Aug 13, 2020

So all swordmen have Ryou?

Nah, I'm sure all the fodder Want swordsmen don't. I mean Zoro in East blue did not and he was a swordsman.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

@Charlotte Horchata char

The point is that Any haki that flows from outside your body is autatically Ryuo.

When Vergo made his haki flow out of his body into his bamboo stick and the stick became BLACK then that was Ryuo.

When Zoro flowed his Haki intosent an air slash that cut Monet's face, that's Ryuo

When Tashigi's Haki flows into her sword even when the sword DOES NOT BLACKEN, that's Ryuo.

When Boa Marigold and Sentomaru flow their Haki out into the Air and form a shield, thats Ryuo.

When Rayleigh and Luffy flow their haki out into and object and erupt it from within, thats Ryuo.

If armament haki flows out of the Body in any shape or form, it's Ryuo

Then let's see if I'm getting you right here, are you defending that "ryuo" is a local name for the action of moving your haki to your weapon, be it by means of basic or advanced armament, or are you defending that you can't move your haki to your weapon unless you are able to use the first level of advanced armament like Sentomaru and Rayleigh?

 

[CbShadow]

Then let's see if I'm getting you right here, are you defending that "ryuo" is a local name for the action of moving your haki to your weapon, be it by means of basic or advanced armament, or are you defending that you can't move your haki to your weapon unless you are able to use the first level of advanced armament like Sentomaru and Rayleigh?

I believe what he's saying is anytime armament haki is flowed from a user's body they are using, what Wano calls, ryuo. Regardless if you are flowing it from your body to transform it to a weapon or to attack with it directly. That is advanced armament haki.

OP, excellent thread. I believe you explained what ryuo is very well.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

by means of basic or advanced armament,

I mean Advanced armament is the flow itself.

Any time haki flows out of your body, this means Zoro in alabasta, sentomaru, the admirals, vergo, tashigi, oden, the scabbards, luffy are all capable of using Ryuo which is Advanced armament.

It's just that they all have different levels of Advanced Armament/Ryou.

Basically what I mean is that in wano Armament haki is called Ryuo but in actuality, for people outside wano, it would be called Advanced armament

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I mean Advanced armament is the flow itself.

Any time haki flows out of your body, this means Zoro in alabasta, sentomaru, the admirals, vergo, tashigi, oden, the scabbards, luffy are all capable of using Ryuo which is Advanced armament.

It's just that they all have different levels of Advanced Armament/Ryou.

Basically what I mean is that in wano Armament haki is called Ryuo but in actuality, for people outside wano, it would be called Advanced armament

Ryuo was literally never stated nor even implied to be advanced. What was said to be advanced was:

• barrier CoA
• penetration CoA

Luffy learned Ryuo almost instantly after Hyogoro explained it to him. In fact you can even see him using it when he punches armadillo man. The anime makes this even more clear.

What Luffy was trying to do wasn't simply learning ryuo, he was trying to learn barrier CoA. Barrier CoA and Ryuo are not synonymous as there are users of Ryuo who haven't shown any indication of knowing barrier. In barrier CoA, your ryuo is so strong that you can create an attack based of haki alone, not requiring any physical strength. Luffy clearly used Ryuo when big mom slapped him in udon, it wasn't, however, barrier CoA.

Flowing or Ryuo is the only way a haki user can enhance their weapons. This means that literally every single haki wielding weapons user knows ryuo. Anyone from Tashigi to helmeppo to kaido and mihawk.

If literal fodder know ryuo, then it obviously isn't advanced.

 

[Rmstorm]

Ryuo was literally never stated nor even implied to be advanced. What was said to be advanced was:

• barrier CoA
• penetration CoA

Luffy learned Ryuo almost instantly after Hyogoro explained it to him. In fact you can even see him using it when he punches armadillo man. The anime makes this even more clear.

What Luffy was trying to do wasn't simply learning ryuo, he was trying to learn barrier CoA. Barrier CoA and Ryuo are not synonymous as there are users of Ryuo who haven't shown any indication of knowing barrier. In barrier CoA, your ryuo is so strong that you can create an attack based of haki alone, not requiring any physical strength. Luffy clearly used Ryuo when big mom slapped him in udon, it wasn't, however, barrier CoA.

Flowing or Ryuo is the only way a haki user can enhance their weapons. This means that literally every single haki wielding weapons user knows ryuo. Anyone from Tashigi to helmeppo to kaido and mihawk.

If literal fodder know ryuo, then it obviously isn't advanced.

You have got it all wrong, Luffy failed at projecting his haki when Big Mom slapped him. He only learned how to do it in the following chapters. You can see in chapter 954, he still learning how to do it, as well as chapter 948. In chapter 955, he mastered how to project his haki. You need to be able to use barrier haki before you can use penetration haki. Penetration haki involves expelling the haki form your body, before making it enter another object.

 

[AugustLeo]

@Charlotte Horchata char

The point is that Any haki that flows from outside your body is autatically Ryuo.

When Vergo made his haki flow out of his body into his bamboo stick and the stick became BLACK then that was Ryuo.

When Zoro flowed his Haki intosent an air slash that cut Monet's face, that's Ryuo

When Tashigi's Haki flows into her sword even when the sword DOES NOT BLACKEN, that's Ryuo.

When Boa Marigold and Sentomaru flow their Haki out into the Air and form a shield, thats Ryuo.

When Rayleigh and Luffy flow their haki out into and object and erupt it from within, thats Ryuo.

If armament haki flows out of the Body in any shape or form, it's Ryuo

Post automatically merged: Aug 13, 2020

The flame patterns are on his body so that's not Ryuo. The haki did not floe out of his body.

Luffy mastered Ryuo very fast in want because he's the MC. Not because he had already done it before. Luffy has never been shown putting haki outside his body until Want.

Post automatically merged: Aug 13, 2020

Nah, I'm sure all the fodder Want swordsmen don't. I mean Zoro in East blue did not and he was a swordsman.

What about Luffy infusing his Sandals with Armament Haki does that count as Ryou ?

 

[Monkey D Theories]

You have got it all wrong, Luffy failed at projecting his haki when Big Mom slapped him. He only learned how to do it in the following chapters. You can see in chapter 954, he still learning how to do it, as well as chapter 948. In chapter 955, he mastered how to project his haki. You need to be able to use barrier haki before you can use penetration haki. Penetration haki involves expelling the haki form your body, before making it enter another object.

that's my point

he was clearly using Ryuo, as evident by the aura around his hands, but he hadn't fully mastered barrier haki yet

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2020

What about Luffy infusing his Sandals with Armament Haki does that count as Ryou ?

probably

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2020

basic ryuo would be Luffy infusing haki into a sword. That isn't nearly as difficult as barrier CoA

 

[AugustLeo]

that's my point

he was clearly using Ryuo, as evident by the aura around his hands, but he hadn't fully mastered barrier haki yet

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2020

probably

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2020

basic ryuo would be Luffy infusing haki into a sword. That isn't nearly as difficult as barrier CoA

Well he did fail at using Ryou to Deflect BM attack but Hyogoro did say that he guarded with Ryou

 

[CbShadow]

What about Luffy infusing his Sandals with Armament Haki does that count as Ryou ?

That's interesting because that is ryuo. Considering the fact that Luffy couldn't do it later I believe that was done for a plot.

 

[Rmstorm]

Well he did fail at using Ryou to Deflect BM attack but Hyogoro did say that he guarded with Ryou

He failed at doing it, since he was learning how to do it in the following chapters

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2020

That's interesting because that is ryuo. Considering the fact that Luffy couldn't do it later I believe that was done for a plot.

Oda fucked up, nerfing Luffy heavy.