Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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It really is not.
Kingdom’s Yonko/Admiral equivalents are the Legendary Great Generals such as the Qin Six or Zhao Three who stand above all others, including other Great Generals. Average Great Generals such as Choutou and Mougou are more comparable to YCs/VAs.
Hara has always put more emphasis on the worth of an individual than the worth of their title.
The other point is that China is massive. Just by sheer size alone, it is only logical that there are going to be dozens of Great Generals. To name drop that many would be tedious and would cheapen the entire concept of name dropping, hence why Hara uses the technique only occasionally with truly important figures such as Kou En.
Kingdom’s Yonko/Admiral equivalents are the Legendary Great Generals such as the Qin Six or Zhao Three who stand above all others, including other Great Generals. Average Great Generals such as Choutou and Mougou are more comparable to YCs/VAs.
Hara has always put more emphasis on the worth of an individual than the worth of their title.
The other point is that China is massive. Just by sheer size alone, it is only logical that there are going to be dozens of Great Generals. To name drop that many would be tedious and would cheapen the entire concept of name dropping, hence why Hara uses the technique only occasionally with truly important figures such as Kou En.
Nah, unless he dies before, he will finish it, he gets passion for his series periodically, with each period being longer and longer. REAL has been releasing since 1999, and just recently we got new chapters after a few years.
They were great generals, something the protagonist aspires to as his ultimate dream.
Standard Chu generals is nonsense.
Great Generals are not randomly running around my dude, they are the key players of each generation.
Just because the Qin Six were the most prestigious of their generation (akin to Roger for example for this generation of pirates) does not negate the Shikis out there.
In comparison, Vice Admirals, unless they are a Garp, play a minuscule role and can´t put their stamp on a generation.
That´s all and well if the author himself does not use these titles to hype opponents, you are contradicting this.
The implication for mentioning their great general past for these individuals is not "their title does not matter, who knows how strong and dangerous they are", it´s the exact opposite.
Dozens is exaggerated, or i have misunderstood the prestige, relevance and significance of the Great General title. There are many Generals out there, no question, but Great Generals? Qin has 3 right now, six in the past, obviously six in the future.
That´s the challenge and the difficulty, but it is possible. Having a strategic meeting and laying out the challenges and most difficult opponents ahead for example is, even from my limited perspective, easily possible (akin to Garp introducing us to Yonkou, Three Powers, or Yosaku introducing us to Shichibukai and how they relate to the world and the list goes on).
To be fair, One Piece would not be this special if anybody could do that so easily, and it´s one of the biggest merits of Oda, but that does not cover up the fact that for me at least, these guys are just the next random, faceless thing to get over, just like the Wei Dragons or whatever they were called who supposedly were equal to the prestigious guys we heard from, but it lacks the weight, at least for me.
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They were great generals, something the protagonist aspires to as his ultimate dream.
Standard Chu generals is nonsense.
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It really is not.
Kingdom’s Yonko/Admiral equivalents are the Legendary Great Generals such as the Qin Six or Zhao Three who stand above all others, including other Great Generals. Average Great Generals such as Choutou and Mougou are more comparable to YCs/VAs.
Hara has always put more emphasis on the worth of an individual than the worth of their title.
The other point is that China is massive. Just by sheer size alone, it is only logical that there are going to be dozens of Great Generals. To name drop that many would be tedious and would cheapen the entire concept of name dropping, hence why Hara uses the technique only occasionally with truly important figures such as Kou En.
Kingdom’s Yonko/Admiral equivalents are the Legendary Great Generals such as the Qin Six or Zhao Three who stand above all others, including other Great Generals. Average Great Generals such as Choutou and Mougou are more comparable to YCs/VAs.
Hara has always put more emphasis on the worth of an individual than the worth of their title.
The other point is that China is massive. Just by sheer size alone, it is only logical that there are going to be dozens of Great Generals. To name drop that many would be tedious and would cheapen the entire concept of name dropping, hence why Hara uses the technique only occasionally with truly important figures such as Kou En.
Just because the Qin Six were the most prestigious of their generation (akin to Roger for example for this generation of pirates) does not negate the Shikis out there.
In comparison, Vice Admirals, unless they are a Garp, play a minuscule role and can´t put their stamp on a generation.
That´s all and well if the author himself does not use these titles to hype opponents, you are contradicting this.
The implication for mentioning their great general past for these individuals is not "their title does not matter, who knows how strong and dangerous they are", it´s the exact opposite.
Dozens is exaggerated, or i have misunderstood the prestige, relevance and significance of the Great General title. There are many Generals out there, no question, but Great Generals? Qin has 3 right now, six in the past, obviously six in the future.
That´s the challenge and the difficulty, but it is possible. Having a strategic meeting and laying out the challenges and most difficult opponents ahead for example is, even from my limited perspective, easily possible (akin to Garp introducing us to Yonkou, Three Powers, or Yosaku introducing us to Shichibukai and how they relate to the world and the list goes on).
To be fair, One Piece would not be this special if anybody could do that so easily, and it´s one of the biggest merits of Oda, but that does not cover up the fact that for me at least, these guys are just the next random, faceless thing to get over, just like the Wei Dragons or whatever they were called who supposedly were equal to the prestigious guys we heard from, but it lacks the weight, at least for me.
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Oh okay, so let me get this straight:
It’s fine for pirates like Shiki to exist, or people like Captain John and Silver Axe to exist despite us never hearing of these two until chapter 950, that’s totally fine.
It’s also fine for people close in strength to the Qin 6 to exist, because just because Hara introduces the Qin 6 doesn’t mean there couldn’t have been other generals who were close to them at the time in an era that we know little about anyway,
But Hara crosses the line when he reveals that the largest state in China, that we know almost nothing about, actually used to have Great Generals aside from Kan Mei and Kou En. It’s bad writing because when Hara introduced Kan Mei and Kou En, we should have shoe horned the idea that Chu never had any Great Generals before or since these two into our brains, despite their being no indication in the story of that.
That definitely isn’t ridiculous and isn’t completely self-contradictory. Lol
It’s fine for pirates like Shiki to exist, or people like Captain John and Silver Axe to exist despite us never hearing of these two until chapter 950, that’s totally fine.
It’s also fine for people close in strength to the Qin 6 to exist, because just because Hara introduces the Qin 6 doesn’t mean there couldn’t have been other generals who were close to them at the time in an era that we know little about anyway,
But Hara crosses the line when he reveals that the largest state in China, that we know almost nothing about, actually used to have Great Generals aside from Kan Mei and Kou En. It’s bad writing because when Hara introduced Kan Mei and Kou En, we should have shoe horned the idea that Chu never had any Great Generals before or since these two into our brains, despite their being no indication in the story of that.
That definitely isn’t ridiculous and isn’t completely self-contradictory. Lol
Shiki was a rival to Roger. He was as much of a legend as Roger was. Are you going to claim that Mougou, Choutou or Seikai are as legendary as Renpa or Hakuki?
Just like how Great Generals Mougou and Choutou bemoaned the fact that they were permanently overshadowed by the Qin Six. Lol.
Qin fielded Six Great Generals at once. Wei fielded the Seven Fire Dragons. Between just two states that is already over a dozen Legendary Great Generals. Zhao fielded the Three Great Heavens in addition to regular Great Generals such as Gakujou.
Then Chu, Han, Yan and Qi are going to have their own Great Generals. So yes, dozen of Great Generals across the entirety of China is going to be pretty accurate.
Legendary Great Generals (Yonko/Admiral equivalent) >>> Ordinary Great Generals (YC/VA equivalent) >>> Generals (Rear Admiral equivalent).
So yes, you have indeed misunderstood the relevance, prestige and importance of ordinary Great Generals such as Seikai.
Well it is a good thing that I have already established that these new blokes are just Ordinary (ex) Great Generals thus making this entire thought process moot.
These new blokes are not comparable to Renpa or Kou En, so it is not necessary or even relevant for them to get name dropped three hundred chapters in advance or whatever, just like it was not necessary for Seikai or Ordo.
It is not as if Oda name drops everyone or that doing so guarantees a decent character. Being name dropped a decade in advance did not do Linlin any good. Enel, Caesar Clown and Hody Jones also came out of nowhere. Xebec shat on 950+ chapters of established lore at the expense of the entire Old Generation.
Foreshadowing events or people is not the be all or end all in a story. Lol.
No. Hara hyped them up as individuals first. They are notorious individuals to the nations that desire Juuko because of how they have consistently repelled numerous invasions against one of the most highly desired strategical locations in all of China.
This business about their past simply gives us insight into the characters and their relationship with Chu.
Just like how Great Generals Mougou and Choutou bemoaned the fact that they were permanently overshadowed by the Qin Six. Lol.
Qin fielded Six Great Generals at once. Wei fielded the Seven Fire Dragons. Between just two states that is already over a dozen Legendary Great Generals. Zhao fielded the Three Great Heavens in addition to regular Great Generals such as Gakujou.
Legendary Great Generals (Yonko/Admiral equivalent) >>> Ordinary Great Generals (YC/VA equivalent) >>> Generals (Rear Admiral equivalent).
So yes, you have indeed misunderstood the relevance, prestige and importance of ordinary Great Generals such as Seikai.
Well it is a good thing that I have already established that these new blokes are just Ordinary (ex) Great Generals thus making this entire thought process moot.
These new blokes are not comparable to Renpa or Kou En, so it is not necessary or even relevant for them to get name dropped three hundred chapters in advance or whatever, just like it was not necessary for Seikai or Ordo.
It is not as if Oda name drops everyone or that doing so guarantees a decent character. Being name dropped a decade in advance did not do Linlin any good. Enel, Caesar Clown and Hody Jones also came out of nowhere. Xebec shat on 950+ chapters of established lore at the expense of the entire Old Generation.
Foreshadowing events or people is not the be all or end all in a story. Lol.
No. Hara hyped them up as individuals first. They are notorious individuals to the nations that desire Juuko because of how they have consistently repelled numerous invasions against one of the most highly desired strategical locations in all of China.
Uhhhhh....there's not really a Yonko equivalent in Kingdom, I mean I guess the closest it'd is the Four Lords of the Warring States. Shunshinkun was only really a major threat for one arc, Shinryoukun was mentioned back in the second arc, and the other two never appeared. They aren't meant to be big opponents as of now, or maybe they never will.
I mean if you choose to look at the Yonko King equivalent as in the four biggest obstacles for Shin/Sei, that'd be Riboku, Houken, Ryofui, & Renpa. Houken's dead, Ryofui is "dead" but his role as antagonist is over, Riboku is alive but battered down, which leaves us with only Renpa, who hasn't taken the field in over 400 chapters.
But really Kingdom+One Piece don't have that much similarity when it comes to character roles, and definitely not the connection of a few Chu generals being the same weight as the Yonko. The main threats for Shin/Sei will always continue to rotate. We still got Kouen, Choukou, Jing Ke, & maybe Xiang Yu even. Meanwhile One Piece's main bosses were set up early, Warlords mentioned back in Alabasta, Gorosei was introduced somewhere around Skypiea I think? Yonko mentioned/introduced in Pre-Timeskip. Blackbeard introduced at Jaya. Also Admirals introduced Pre-Water 7. One Piece had mostly a straight line or established future opponents for Luffy, Kingdom is mostly what's around the corner type & that's not bad at all, I prefer the latter honestly, leaves more room for mystery & excitement.
Anyway, those were my two cents.
I mean if you choose to look at the Yonko King equivalent as in the four biggest obstacles for Shin/Sei, that'd be Riboku, Houken, Ryofui, & Renpa. Houken's dead, Ryofui is "dead" but his role as antagonist is over, Riboku is alive but battered down, which leaves us with only Renpa, who hasn't taken the field in over 400 chapters.
But really Kingdom+One Piece don't have that much similarity when it comes to character roles, and definitely not the connection of a few Chu generals being the same weight as the Yonko. The main threats for Shin/Sei will always continue to rotate. We still got Kouen, Choukou, Jing Ke, & maybe Xiang Yu even. Meanwhile One Piece's main bosses were set up early, Warlords mentioned back in Alabasta, Gorosei was introduced somewhere around Skypiea I think? Yonko mentioned/introduced in Pre-Timeskip. Blackbeard introduced at Jaya. Also Admirals introduced Pre-Water 7. One Piece had mostly a straight line or established future opponents for Luffy, Kingdom is mostly what's around the corner type & that's not bad at all, I prefer the latter honestly, leaves more room for mystery & excitement.
Anyway, those were my two cents.
You missed the point where i said "biggest flaws of Kingdom" , meaning this stuff has happened several times before, whether it´s Wei Dragons or any other general pulled out of the hat which get Great General or "on par with Three Zhao Heavens or Qin 6" hype, which Hara uses regularly.
He wasn´t, he was a big player of that generation, there is nobody as renowned as Roger.
Not the same. Mougou and the likes are also well-known, they play second fiddle to the ultimate top, but there is nobody in Qin who does not know them, or in the other countries for that matter.
Not comparable to Vergo and the like who play an ultimately insignificant role.
That´s still not dozens.
Ordinary and Great Generals does not fit into the same sentence, sorry.
Kou En and Renpa are the Roger and Whitebeards of their generation, does not change the fact that the Shikis of the world are also renown, sorry but we have to disagree here.
You are misunderstanding. Your premise would hold true if titles in Kingdom were not used to hype characters that pop up without previously mentioned. Kisui was hyped with the statement "Were it not for that tragedy, Ki Sui-sama could have become one of Zhao's Great Generals. ", as an example. Gyou´ un was hyped by stating he fought the Qin 6 evenly and went after them to kill them, and the list goes on. Hara being all about individuals is factually wrong when you have statements that directly disregard that statement and use groups, ranks or status to hype characters.
I just wrote one sentence that expressed my sentiment that i felt several times before when uber powerful new characters without any hint were introduced.
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Shiki was a rival to Roger. He was as much of a legend as Roger was. Are you going to claim that Mougou, Choutou or Seikai are as legendary as Renpa or Hakuki?
Just like how Great Generals Mougou and Choutou bemoaned the fact that they were permanently overshadowed by the Qin Six. Lol.
Qin fielded Six Great Generals at once. Wei fielded the Seven Fire Dragons. Between just two states that is already over a dozen Legendary Great Generals. Zhao fielded the Three Great Heavens in addition to regular Great Generals such as Gakujou.
Then Chu, Han, Yan and Qi are going to have their own Great Generals. So yes, dozen of Great Generals across the entirety of China is going to be pretty accurate.
Legendary Great Generals (Yonko/Admiral equivalent) >>> Ordinary Great Generals (YC/VA equivalent) >>> Generals (Rear Admiral equivalent).
So yes, you have indeed misunderstood the relevance, prestige and importance of ordinary Great Generals such as Seikai.
Well it is a good thing that I have already established that these new blokes are just Ordinary (ex) Great Generals thus making this entire thought process moot.
These new blokes are not comparable to Renpa or Kou En, so it is not necessary or even relevant for them to get name dropped three hundred chapters in advance or whatever, just like it was not necessary for Seikai or Ordo.
It is not as if Oda name drops everyone or that doing so guarantees a decent character. Being name dropped a decade in advance did not do Linlin any good. Enel, Caesar Clown and Hody Jones also came out of nowhere. Xebec shat on 950+ chapters of established lore at the expense of the entire Old Generation.
Foreshadowing events or people is not the be all or end all in a story. Lol.
No. Hara hyped them up as individuals first. They are notorious individuals to the nations that desire Juuko because of how they have consistently repelled numerous invasions against one of the most highly desired strategical locations in all of China.
This business about their past simply gives us insight into the characters and their relationship with Chu.
Just like how Great Generals Mougou and Choutou bemoaned the fact that they were permanently overshadowed by the Qin Six. Lol.
Qin fielded Six Great Generals at once. Wei fielded the Seven Fire Dragons. Between just two states that is already over a dozen Legendary Great Generals. Zhao fielded the Three Great Heavens in addition to regular Great Generals such as Gakujou.
Legendary Great Generals (Yonko/Admiral equivalent) >>> Ordinary Great Generals (YC/VA equivalent) >>> Generals (Rear Admiral equivalent).
So yes, you have indeed misunderstood the relevance, prestige and importance of ordinary Great Generals such as Seikai.
Well it is a good thing that I have already established that these new blokes are just Ordinary (ex) Great Generals thus making this entire thought process moot.
These new blokes are not comparable to Renpa or Kou En, so it is not necessary or even relevant for them to get name dropped three hundred chapters in advance or whatever, just like it was not necessary for Seikai or Ordo.
It is not as if Oda name drops everyone or that doing so guarantees a decent character. Being name dropped a decade in advance did not do Linlin any good. Enel, Caesar Clown and Hody Jones also came out of nowhere. Xebec shat on 950+ chapters of established lore at the expense of the entire Old Generation.
Foreshadowing events or people is not the be all or end all in a story. Lol.
No. Hara hyped them up as individuals first. They are notorious individuals to the nations that desire Juuko because of how they have consistently repelled numerous invasions against one of the most highly desired strategical locations in all of China.
Not the same. Mougou and the likes are also well-known, they play second fiddle to the ultimate top, but there is nobody in Qin who does not know them, or in the other countries for that matter.
Not comparable to Vergo and the like who play an ultimately insignificant role.
That´s still not dozens.
Ordinary and Great Generals does not fit into the same sentence, sorry.
Kou En and Renpa are the Roger and Whitebeards of their generation, does not change the fact that the Shikis of the world are also renown, sorry but we have to disagree here.
You are misunderstanding. Your premise would hold true if titles in Kingdom were not used to hype characters that pop up without previously mentioned. Kisui was hyped with the statement "Were it not for that tragedy, Ki Sui-sama could have become one of Zhao's Great Generals. ", as an example. Gyou´ un was hyped by stating he fought the Qin 6 evenly and went after them to kill them, and the list goes on. Hara being all about individuals is factually wrong when you have statements that directly disregard that statement and use groups, ranks or status to hype characters.
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Please don't ruin this place guys..
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Yeah i feel it's gonna be less than 15 chapters
I think Wei will attack the city from the otherside and seige it then it all comes down to Xin who would have to stall the Man'u army for some time for the city to fall
I also don't see these new generals dying i think atleast 2 of them will survive and fight hei shin unit later
I think Wei will attack the city from the otherside and seige it then it all comes down to Xin who would have to stall the Man'u army for some time for the city to fall
I also don't see these new generals dying i think atleast 2 of them will survive and fight hei shin unit later
Chapter 652 spoilers thanks to the Kingdom Community and SaucyWoo edition:
https://tenor.com/view/smug-nikaido-saki-zombie-land-saga-nikaido-anime-gif-14210719
First will get a quick explanation of why Tou showed up personally, then we go back to Man'u and Moubu. Once they get close enough they don't exchange a single word, they clash on sight a panel later and to our surprise Moubu gets severely overpowered . We then get silhouettes of the people that fuel Man'u extreme weight, every single person that drives him to move forward possesses a certain power that is shown to be even greater than martial might. THE POWER OF DREADS, after that quick display of pure power we are then shown the Sento'un army, Sento'un is charging the Rokuomi army and to Sento'un surprise his army is getting completely destroyed by a single charge lead by Rokuomi himself. Tou does his famous KOKOKO while a flashback plays of him and Rokuomi sparring as kids similar to Shin and Hyou. Then out of nowhere you here a whistle like sound and Rokuomi hits the floor, in the brief moment of confusion we are shown a tiny dot that is somewhat in the shape of a human. As we get closer we see that it was an arrow shot by Hakurei, he then states that his bow is now ranked 1 in all of china and he mentioned that he has studied under Kyouen for the past couple years and surpassed him in every category. Kouyoku gets pumped up wanting to show his abilities to the Qin soldiers, he then pulls out his famous Bakuya sword and charges the Tou army while in the fighting he spots Tou and says to himself that he's been waiting a long time for this moment he then pulls out another sword. The pair to Bakuya...HANSHOU everyone is in disbelief that he posses this weapon we don't get a explanation of why or how he has it this chapter but im sure we will get the reason soon. As the chapter ends we are shown GHM and his army of 50k marching to Juuko with his deputy a newly promoted Fire Dragon who is shown to be a spear user but his spear is quite unique both ends of the spear are sharpen. GHM smirks and the chapter ends.
https://tenor.com/view/smug-nikaido-saki-zombie-land-saga-nikaido-anime-gif-14210719
First will get a quick explanation of why Tou showed up personally, then we go back to Man'u and Moubu. Once they get close enough they don't exchange a single word, they clash on sight a panel later and to our surprise Moubu gets severely overpowered . We then get silhouettes of the people that fuel Man'u extreme weight, every single person that drives him to move forward possesses a certain power that is shown to be even greater than martial might. THE POWER OF DREADS, after that quick display of pure power we are then shown the Sento'un army, Sento'un is charging the Rokuomi army and to Sento'un surprise his army is getting completely destroyed by a single charge lead by Rokuomi himself. Tou does his famous KOKOKO while a flashback plays of him and Rokuomi sparring as kids similar to Shin and Hyou. Then out of nowhere you here a whistle like sound and Rokuomi hits the floor, in the brief moment of confusion we are shown a tiny dot that is somewhat in the shape of a human. As we get closer we see that it was an arrow shot by Hakurei, he then states that his bow is now ranked 1 in all of china and he mentioned that he has studied under Kyouen for the past couple years and surpassed him in every category. Kouyoku gets pumped up wanting to show his abilities to the Qin soldiers, he then pulls out his famous Bakuya sword and charges the Tou army while in the fighting he spots Tou and says to himself that he's been waiting a long time for this moment he then pulls out another sword. The pair to Bakuya...HANSHOU everyone is in disbelief that he posses this weapon we don't get a explanation of why or how he has it this chapter but im sure we will get the reason soon. As the chapter ends we are shown GHM and his army of 50k marching to Juuko with his deputy a newly promoted Fire Dragon who is shown to be a spear user but his spear is quite unique both ends of the spear are sharpen. GHM smirks and the chapter ends.
Don't know why but TKC haven't pinned it yet and same goes for reddit server but no one is also claiming it fake due to its sources ..... 
Quite difficult to understand first and than digest what you read ... 
That must be Tou kind of joke but it should be best to wait for a bit and get better translated spoilers. Legends of Rokuomi can't get stomped Chu. Lol
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AYO WHAT
MOUBU GETS SEVERELY OVERPOWERED?
HAKUREI IS #1 ARCHER IN CHINA?
A NEW FIRE DRAGON?
MOUBU GETS SEVERELY OVERPOWERED?
HAKUREI IS #1 ARCHER IN CHINA?
A NEW FIRE DRAGON?
That must be Tou kind of joke but it should be best to wait for a bit and get better translated spoilers. Legends of Rokuomi can't get stomped Chu. Lol
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WHAT THE FUCK????!!!
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard
Attaboy Rei!! We all knew it was coming lol. But bring back my man Kyou’En, he is awesome.