Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler

[Xione]

he very likely could've been stronger in his prime (he was pretty much retired for 12 years at Shukai).

Why would he have gotten weaker? (you're not the only one who thinks that, but just using your post to address an overarching sentiment many others have).

The other 8 went on suicidal charges after RSJ's death, Gyou'un and CGR stayed alive due to the prophecy. A Prophecy for which Gyou'un was willing to ignore Bananji's ordered retreat and fight with a crippled arm. With the prophecy being about him painting the lands red with the blood of the enemy, why would he not be training and maintaining his prowess? Ignoring that he's around the same age as Tou/Ousen/etc, younger than Ouki/Renpa neither of whom had any implied decline in martial prowess.

I think @Owl Ki already made a post few years back about how the statement was just him being surprised at / not being able to comprehend the strength of the youngin he was witnessing. Since he came in looking down on Shin, and only gradually as the war progressed did him and CGR start to accept that Shin and Ouhon just built different.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:22 PM

Yoko Yoko > Bananji I’ll say that much @Xione

Well you don't really hold Bananji high like I do, so I understand it.

But Yoko Yoko > Base level Bananji I can see it.

 

[Owl Ki]

Why would he have gotten weaker? (you're not the only one who thinks that, but just using your post to address an overarching sentiment many others have).

The other 8 went on suicidal charges after RSJ's death, Gyou'un and CGR stayed alive due to the prophecy. A Prophecy for which Gyou'un was willing to ignore Bananji's ordered retreat and fight with a crippled arm. With the prophecy being about him painting the lands red with the blood of the enemy, why would he not be training and maintaining his prowess? Ignoring that he's around the same age as Tou/Ousen/etc, younger than Ouki/Renpa neither of whom had any implied decline in martial prowess.

I think @Owl Ki already made a post few years back about how the statement was just him being surprised at / not being able to comprehend the strength of the youngin he was witnessing. Since he came in looking down on Shin, and only gradually as the war progressed did him and CGR start to accept that Shin and Ouhon just built different.

Aye, that sounds like me. I've never bought into the idea of a past Prime Gyou'un. Shukai Gyou'un is Prime Gyou'un as far as I am concerned. Lol.

Not really. Gyou'un questioned whether his strength had halved, he did not make a statement that it had undoubtedly halved.

Spoiler: Chapter 549

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-549-page-14.html

I think this scene is all part of Gyou'un's initial underestimation of the new generation of Qin Generals and of his habit of living in the past.

I am more on board with this take than the alternatives. Unless some reasonable character explicitly states that a certain character has been weakened (e.g. by age or rustiness) then I am just going to assume that the character is effectively at their peak level.

I remember that Gyou'un and his army were stated to have been vigorously training to maintain their strength all these years. Gyou'un thinking he had been weakened because he didn't kill Shin in a day was him underestimating and refusing to acknowledge the new generation, the new generation that he eventually acknowledged by the end of the arc by passing Rinshoujo's message onto them.

In fact, shouldn't Shukai Plains Gyou'un undoubtedly be peak Gyou'un as this was the Gyou'un carrying the "Weight" of his deceased master's legacy? Plus his eight deceased General comrades? Lol.

In a world where people beat up tigers with their bare fists and squeeze skulls like ripe plums, I'll happily believe that a 20 year battlefield absence is mitigated by daily yoga sessions in full armour.

 

[Bullet]

Shukai Gyou'un is Prime Gyou'un

Shukai Gyou'Un is stronger than this "prime Gyou'Un" his fanbase keeps talking about
Gyou'Un carries the will of his master and the 8 fallen heroes and as we saw CGR was able to draw power from that weight to bully Shin for a while so it makes sense to assume that having to live up to his masters orders gave Gyou'Un an extra weight boost as well.
Shukai Gyou'Un >~ RSJ era Gyou'Un.

 

[Xione]

Shukai Gyou'Un is stronger than this "prime Gyou'Un" his fanbase keeps talking about
Gyou'Un carries the will of his master and the 8 fallen heroes and as we saw CGR was able to draw power from that weight to bully Shin for a while so it makes sense to assume that having to live up to his masters orders gave Gyou'Un an extra weight boost as well.
Shukai Gyou'Un >~ RSJ era Gyou'Un.

Great point.

Both CGR and Gyouun in their final fights stressed how they're carrying the wills of the 8 who passed + their master and then Gyouun with CGR too. With essentially the same way as Shin with Hyou/Ouki/Duke/etc.

 

[SakazOuki]

Shukai Gyou'Un is stronger than this "prime Gyou'Un" his fanbase keeps talking about
Gyou'Un carries the will of his master and the 8 fallen heroes and as we saw CGR was able to draw power from that weight to bully Shin for a while so it makes sense to assume that having to live up to his masters orders gave Gyou'Un an extra weight boost as well.
Shukai Gyou'Un >~ RSJ era Gyou'Un.

Great point.

Both CGR and Gyouun in their final fights stressed how they're carrying the wills of the 8 who passed + their master and then Gyouun with CGR too. With essentially the same way as Shin with Hyou/Ouki/Duke/etc.

Normally CGR wouldn’t be that strong, martially he’s simply a borrowed weight merchant
In normal circumstances, as in CGR as he was in RSJ’s era, he’s getting absolutely stomped in a duel by someone like Shoumou

Here on WG more than half the fanbase have CGR > Shoumou

 

[Owl Ki]

Shukai Gyou'Un is stronger than this "prime Gyou'Un" his fanbase keeps talking about
Gyou'Un carries the will of his master and the 8 fallen heroes and as we saw CGR was able to draw power from that weight to bully Shin for a while so it makes sense to assume that having to live up to his masters orders gave Gyou'Un an extra weight boost as well.
Shukai Gyou'Un >~ RSJ era Gyou'Un.

Great point.

Both CGR and Gyouun in their final fights stressed how they're carrying the wills of the 8 who passed + their master and then Gyouun with CGR too. With essentially the same way as Shin with Hyou/Ouki/Duke/etc.

I mean, yeah I did basically say that in one of the posts I quoted. Lol.

In fact, shouldn't Shukai Plains Gyou'un undoubtedly be peak Gyou'un as this was the Gyou'un carrying the "Weight" of his deceased master's legacy? Plus his eight deceased General comrades? Lol.

 

[God Buggy]

Normally CGR wouldn’t be that strong, martially he’s simply a borrowed weight merchant
In normal circumstances, as in CGR as he was in RSJ’s era, he’s getting absolutely stomped in a duel by someone like Shoumou

Here on WG more than half the fanbase have CGR > Shoumou

 

[SakazOuki]

Insanity comparing this pig who crushes skulls with his bare fist to a pencil pusher who had one emotional outburst

This is peak recency bias

 

[God Buggy]

The Shoumou wank

 

[SakazOuki]

The Shoumou wank

The same people who endorse the crack take CGR > Shoumou are shocked when they see takes like Shiryou or Gaku Haku Kou one shot Rinko
Guess what CGR stomps Rinko too