Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
- Start date
- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
Well, Hara plays loose with the population of the Warring States because he never gives it and Qin historically would have recovered from this anyway so it must be realistic since it actually happened.
Besides that, Qin has had the capacity for a 600,000 man army since the first arc, long before it got boat loads of new territory with new population pools to recruit from.
While the manpower loss is noticeable, it is not irreplaceable. What is irreplaceable is the expertise they have lost. The Kanki Army and it's strengths is something that Qin will never be able to replace. Besides that, the Heki Army was filled with experienced soldiers that will also take time to replace.
Besides that, Qin has had the capacity for a 600,000 man army since the first arc, long before it got boat loads of new territory with new population pools to recruit from.
@Bullet after remembering something, it turns out Qin has had the capacity to potentially have an army of 600,000 Qin soldiers since the very first arc, before they even had all of their additional conquered territory and access to the people within those territories.
Combine those two figures and you have 600,000 troops.
Combine those two figures and you have 600,000 troops.
Better remember that number folks cause if I recall correctly, Ousen brings up that figure when it comes to invading Chu.
He def. does underestimate Tou but to no fault of his own, I don't think anybody really has full grasp of how strong Tou is or his full abilities. I doubt even Moubu understands how strong Tou is. Since he's never had a campaign where he's running the show and going all out in it. So there's no way for anyone to know anything about him.
-> He's had two combined "battles" with Moubu. Where Hara normally uses him as the "secondary" general, while Moubu is the one being pushed to his limits.
-> He then had 1 sole campaign with him as the lead and the result ended up being: "Hmm Lord Ouki wanted to conquer China. But in order for that Qin needs more talent. Let me just use this war as a training ground for the youngins to get stronger against Gouhoumei."
What's also interesting to me that the best strategist of the Wei Fire Dragons Past & Present, both deduced that the man who needs to be removed first and foremost before being able to take out Qin is the man named Tou:
^^ They made that above deduction without Tou having displayed his prowess to China lol. Which gets even more interesting that the Qin General who hasn't had a legit campaign so far to display his prowess to China.. is the one Hara used to threaten the the others about stepping out of line and he'll be putting them in their places.
Historical Spoiler talk:
People think Tou's Han campaign is going to be easy work, I heavily disagree. Last thing we know about Han is that they are going to forge an alliance with Chu. And Wei alliance should be over by then also. So Han could turn around and get something going with the Wei as well. With Chu and Wei both realizing that Han serves as a crucial barrier before Qin can fully get into their lands, thus they invest into maintaining Han. So we could very well be seeing that campaign being big as WZI, that involves Chu-Han-Wei forces.
-> He's had two combined "battles" with Moubu. Where Hara normally uses him as the "secondary" general, while Moubu is the one being pushed to his limits.
-> He then had 1 sole campaign with him as the lead and the result ended up being: "Hmm Lord Ouki wanted to conquer China. But in order for that Qin needs more talent. Let me just use this war as a training ground for the youngins to get stronger against Gouhoumei."
What's also interesting to me that the best strategist of the Wei Fire Dragons Past & Present, both deduced that the man who needs to be removed first and foremost before being able to take out Qin is the man named Tou:
^^ They made that above deduction without Tou having displayed his prowess to China lol. Which gets even more interesting that the Qin General who hasn't had a legit campaign so far to display his prowess to China.. is the one Hara used to threaten the the others about stepping out of line and he'll be putting them in their places.
Historical Spoiler talk:
People think Tou's Han campaign is going to be easy work, I heavily disagree. Last thing we know about Han is that they are going to forge an alliance with Chu. And Wei alliance should be over by then also. So Han could turn around and get something going with the Wei as well. With Chu and Wei both realizing that Han serves as a crucial barrier before Qin can fully get into their lands, thus they invest into maintaining Han. So we could very well be seeing that campaign being big as WZI, that involves Chu-Han-Wei forces.
....
now back to my original top 1
......
also in wei chu qin arc
Tou left the leadership to Gohoumei
so from those 3 arcs he participate in
we can understand that Tou is not who take the innovative as leader if was there someone capable on his side.
..
I hope for that next ARC he do it himself this time , at that arc ousen ytw should be at Zhao border and cant leave it since they got defeated
twice by rbk back to back
so only new gen trio with him
which seems they will play big role there as usual
so lets hope he do big feats there not just harvesting heads.
goodbye boos
....
now back to my original top 1
......
also in wei chu qin arc
Tou left the leadership to Gohoumei
so from those 3 arcs he participate in
we can understand that Tou is not who take the innovative as leader if was there someone capable on his side.
..
I hope for that next ARC he do it himself this time , at that arc ousen ytw should be at Zhao border and cant leave it since they got defeated
also Mobu at chu border.
so only new gen trio with him
which seems they will play big role there as usual
so lets hope he do big feats there not just harvesting heads.
....
now back to my original top 1
......
also in wei chu qin arc
Tou left the leadership to Gohoumei
so from those 3 arcs he participate in
we can understand that Tou is not who take the innovative as leader if was there someone capable on his side.
..
I hope for that next ARC he do it himself this time , at that arc ousen ytw should be at Zhao border and cant leave it since they got defeated
twice by rbk back to back
so only new gen trio with him
which seems they will play big role there as usual
so lets hope he do big feats there not just harvesting heads.
Tou leading a Qin campaign against a combined force of Wei-Han-Chu. Real Kingdom finally starts. But it seems we're still 2-3 years away from that campaign.
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They would have to pull soldiers and recruit some over the course of next year to two. This campaign is def. going to halt the Qin for a year-two being realistic about it.
Since they now have to play cautious with the Chu-Wei borders as well, along with the constant threat of Riboku & SBS attacking to retake Zhao lands. Since the original plan was to get Zhao while the Wei alliance is under way.
My guess is we either get some minor battle arc or political arc, with a timeskip of year to 2, to then head to the big Tou campaign and then back to the big Zhao campaign.
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They would have to pull soldiers and recruit some over the course of next year to two. This campaign is def. going to halt the Qin for a year-two being realistic about it.
Since they now have to play cautious with the Chu-Wei borders as well, along with the constant threat of Riboku & SBS attacking to retake Zhao lands. Since the original plan was to get Zhao while the Wei alliance is under way.
My guess is we either get some minor battle arc or political arc, with a timeskip of year to 2, to then head to the big Tou campaign and then back to the big Zhao campaign.
Since they now have to play cautious with the Chu-Wei borders as well, along with the constant threat of Riboku & SBS attacking to retake Zhao lands. Since the original plan was to get Zhao while the Wei alliance is under way.
My guess is we either get some minor battle arc or political arc, with a timeskip of year to 2, to then head to the big Tou campaign and then back to the big Zhao campaign.
Aww shiiit I overlooked this historical sooiler
We don't head to Han until 230 or so. And the 233 campaign just happened. That means the next campaign is in a few months in 232 with another Qin L.
That explains why Shibashou wasn't shown because the upcoming Zhao war in few months is going to be bigger.
In 233 BC, Huan Yi's army crossed Mount Taihang and conquered the Zhao territories of Chili (赤麗) and Yi'an (宜安), both located southeast of present-day Shijiazhuang, Hebei. Then, the Qin army under Huan Yi engaged the Zhao army commanded by General Li Mu at the Battle of Fei in which the Qin sustained a massive defeat and nearly lost all their forces.
In 232 BC, the Qin forces split into two groups to attack Fanwu (番吾; present-day Lingshou County, Hebei) and Langmeng (狼孟; present-day Yangqu County, Shanxi), but were defeated again by the Zhao army led by Li Mu. However, the Zhao forces also sustained heavy losses and could only retreat to defend their capital, Handan.
In 232 BC, the Qin forces split into two groups to attack Fanwu (番吾; present-day Lingshou County, Hebei) and Langmeng (狼孟; present-day Yangqu County, Shanxi), but were defeated again by the Zhao army led by Li Mu. However, the Zhao forces also sustained heavy losses and could only retreat to defend their capital, Handan.
We don't head to Han until 230 or so. And the 233 campaign just happened. That means the next campaign is in a few months in 232 with another Qin L.
That explains why Shibashou wasn't shown because the upcoming Zhao war in few months is going to be bigger.
Aww shiiit I overlooked this historical sooiler
We don't head to Han until 230 or so. And the 233 campaign just happened. That means the next campaign is in a few months in 232 with another Qin L.
That explains why Shibashou wasn't shown because the upcoming Zhao war in few months is going to be bigger.
In 233 BC, Huan Yi's army crossed Mount Taihang and conquered the Zhao territories of Chili (赤麗) and Yi'an (宜安), both located southeast of present-day Shijiazhuang, Hebei. Then, the Qin army under Huan Yi engaged the Zhao army commanded by General Li Mu at the Battle of Fei in which the Qin sustained a massive defeat and nearly lost all their forces.
In 232 BC, the Qin forces split into two groups to attack Fanwu (番吾; present-day Lingshou County, Hebei) and Langmeng (狼孟; present-day Yangqu County, Shanxi), but were defeated again by the Zhao army led by Li Mu. However, the Zhao forces also sustained heavy losses and could only retreat to defend their capital, Handan.
In 232 BC, the Qin forces split into two groups to attack Fanwu (番吾; present-day Lingshou County, Hebei) and Langmeng (狼孟; present-day Yangqu County, Shanxi), but were defeated again by the Zhao army led by Li Mu. However, the Zhao forces also sustained heavy losses and could only retreat to defend their capital, Handan.
We don't head to Han until 230 or so. And the 233 campaign just happened. That means the next campaign is in a few months in 232 with another Qin L.
That explains why Shibashou wasn't shown because the upcoming Zhao war in few months is going to be bigger.
Actually, there is no indication of Shibasou being in the 232 BCE war either, it's just Riboku. Shibasou only comes in the 229 BCE
I'm aware of the historical mentioning of him, but simply look at somebody like Kyoukai who's participated in every major war essentially, even though historically she's not mentioned until later down the line until final zhao campaign. Or even our boy RiShin, who's been a major player in almost every major historical war in the series.
Shibashou is already involved and technically already made his battle appearance with the Yan, and then sent his underlings this campaign. However, the likelihood of him not showing up in a campaign where Zhao suffer heavy losses is extremely low, especially when the Qin army will be attacking with two separate armies. Now whether he's a big player in the war or not.. that's a different story.
But I just don't see Hara sitting out Shibashou for a major war like the upcoming one, and waiting whole years to just shove him into the final campaign.
Shibashou is already involved and technically already made his battle appearance with the Yan, and then sent his underlings this campaign. However, the likelihood of him not showing up in a campaign where Zhao suffer heavy losses is extremely low, especially when the Qin army will be attacking with two separate armies. Now whether he's a big player in the war or not.. that's a different story.
But I just don't see Hara sitting out Shibashou for a major war like the upcoming one, and waiting whole years to just shove him into the final campaign.
Understandable, but Kyoukai is not a General and hence not worth mentioning in the historical texts. As for Shin, we know that the Shiji had some biases against him and he too isn't a big-name general yet(history wise) so I am not sure if that indicates anything regarding Shibasou.
I can actually see him coming btw
The reason I said only Riboku is because the two fronts of the battlefield are separately mentioned and both mention that Riboku was the opponent. Hara can go a different way of course, but the history seems to imply only Riboku
I can actually see him coming btw
The reason I said only Riboku is because the two fronts of the battlefield are separately mentioned and both mention that Riboku was the opponent. Hara can go a different way of course, but the history seems to imply only Riboku
Oh nah historically there's nothing justifying Shibashou coming this campaign. I think most people in general weren't expecting him to show up until the final campaign, but Hara started using him actively in Zhao back in WZI.
Now with this campaign he utilized all his underlings, so next campaign should be his own grand entrance. I was just using the historical spoiler as a reference for the event where Shibashou would show up. Since I had forgotten there's a major Zhao war before that final Zhao campaign.
Now with this campaign he utilized all his underlings, so next campaign should be his own grand entrance. I was just using the historical spoiler as a reference for the event where Shibashou would show up. Since I had forgotten there's a major Zhao war before that final Zhao campaign.
Chapter 755 spoilers :
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Chapter 755 spoilers :
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Can't wait for everyone's reactions to this humongous loss
Riboku being surprised by Kanki’s caliber is fair. He thought he would kill Kanki by surrounding with his huge army but Kanki managed to escape, take the castle and even managed to corner Riboku so hard here despite losing most of his men in the first clash. Hi Shin and Gaku Ka is nearly wiped out. We may get a lot of new characters next arc
F
Chapter 755 spoilers :
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Guess we now know why Ousen is superior in tactics