Controversial General Political Discussion

[Bisoromi Bear]

He's just an insignificant flea. Don't bother, What he says has even lesser value than C4N.

When will you stop talking like an edgy anime character

 

[Z-Saber]

Well, now I'm curious. How can a mental disability be offensive ?

If Al doesn’t want to talk about it then let it be. Not trying to be rude here but there are more serious disabilities. I don’t lack sympathy or empathy for you in your condition but you’re better off than most disabled people and I hope you find the strength to navigate through your own problems.

 

[Logiko]

Not trying to be rude here but there are more serious disabilities. I don’t lack sympathy or empathy for you in your condition but you’re better off than most disabled people

You are completely right, although I would cut my own two legs if I could to get out of my current situation, there are indeed more serious disabilities, some are literaly hell on earth. In fact in some ways, what I live does not even compare to 5% of what are living some people. But if I remember correctly, I've never compared myself to anyone or tried to say that my disability was worse than others.

So my question is perfectly legitimate here and your unsolicited comparison is problematic.

 

[Ravagerblade]

You are completely right, although I would cut my own two legs if I could to get out of my current situation, there are indeed more serious disabilities, some are literaly hell on earth. In fact in some ways, what I live does not even compare to 5% of what are living some people. But if I remember correctly, I've never compared myself to anyone or tried to say that my disability was worse than others.

So my question is perfectly legitimate here and your unsolicited comparison is problematic.

Imagine having lived like Polio Paul, RIP.

 

[Z-Saber]

You are completely right, although I would cut my own two legs if I could to get out of my current situation, there are indeed more serious disabilities, some are literaly hell on earth. In fact in some ways, what I live does not even compare to 5% of what are living some people. But if I remember correctly, I've never compared myself to anyone or tried to say that my disability was worse than others.

So my question is perfectly legitimate here and your unsolicited comparison is problematic.

It’s not, Al has talked about his personal struggles here before but it’s not my place to get into it. Just trying to get you to understand why he might be offended by you classifying yourself.

 

[Logiko]

It’s not, Al has talked about his personal struggles here before but it’s not my place to get into it. Just trying to get you to understand why he might be offended by you classifying yourself.

Me "classifying myself" ? What do you mean by that ?

 

[Z-Saber]

Me "classifying myself" ? What do you mean by that ?

Your disability. I don’t blame you if you’re unaware of Al’s struggles but if you were aware, you’d understand why he said he’s offended.

 

[Logiko]

Your disability. I don’t blame you if you’re unaware of Al’s struggles but if you were aware, you’d understand why he said he’s offended.

No, I don't think I would mate.
No one should be offended by the disabilities of others.

 

[Z-Saber]

No, I don't think I would mate.
No one should be offended by the disabilities of others.

Well that’s your choice to make. I do understand his perspective though and I can’t really elaborate on that further without sounding like an asshole to you. That’s not something I wish to do.

 

[Logiko]

I do understand his perspective though and I can’t really elaborate on that further without sounding like an asshole to you.

Let me take a guess:

Al has or know one or multiple someone with a strong physical or mental disability (that I don't know the nature of) and because he believes that my struggle is "not that hard" or maybe "not that real" compared to what he or the person he knows lives, because maybe I'm very active here, he is offended by me explaining that I'm disabled.

Maybe I'm wrong, after all, its just a guess. So let me know how many % of the answer I got right here.

 

[Z-Saber]

Let me take a guess:

Al has or know one or multiple someone with a strong physical or mental disability (that I don't know the nature of) and because he believes that my struggle is "not that hard" or maybe "not that real" compared to what he or the person he knows lives, because maybe I'm very active here, he is offended by me explaining that I'm disabled.

Maybe I'm wrong, after all, its just a guess. So let me know how many % of the answer I got right here.

Again, it isn't my place to speak on that and he doesn't want to talk about it.

Speaking for myself though, I've dealt with disabled people physically and mentally and in my personal experience, 90% of the time the physically disabled are worse off. I recognize mental disabilities and I don't want to downplay them but some are far more significant than others. I've worked with a child that was both mentally retarded and physically disabled, to the point to where she can't speak or walk or do anything unassisted since birth. Compared to that, I would be hard pressed to even consider some of the mentally disabled people I've worked with as "disabled". I'm not trying to sound harsh when I say this but to me, your disability does fall into that category. I'm not saying that your disability isn't something to take seriously but to some, you being classified as disabled can come across like a slap to the face.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

If Al doesn’t want to talk about it then let it be. Not trying to be rude here but there are more serious disabilities. I don’t lack sympathy or empathy for you in your condition but you’re better off than most disabled people and I hope you find the strength to navigate through your own problems.

Disability ranking is cringe. That's all I'm going to contribute to this topic

 

[Logiko]

Again, it isn't my place to speak on that and he doesn't want to talk about it.

Speaking for myself though, I've dealt with disabled people physically and mentally and in my personal experience, 90% of the time the physically disabled are worse off. I recognize mental disabilities and I don't want to downplay them but some are far more significant than others. I've worked with a child that was both mentally retarded and physically disabled, to the point to where she can't speak or walk or do anything unassisted since birth. Compared to that, I would be hard pressed to even consider some of the mentally disabled people I've worked with as "disabled". I'm not trying to sound harsh when I say this but to me, your disability does fall into that category. I'm not saying that your disability isn't something to take seriously but to some, you being classified as disabled can come across like a slap to the face.

I've literally NEVER seen any disabled person (and I'm following a few) saying to another disabled person that might be in better shape that they are not "really disabled". Those things are said by people who don't face the disability in their own skin or those who are close to the person in question, NEVER the person themself.

Why ? Because ALL "disabled" persons are facing at one point or another the ableistic side of society or psychiatry that is being talked about in the leftist library here...

- [VIDEO] - What is ableism
- [VIDEO] - The importance of understanding neurodiversity
- [VIDEO] - The struggle of being disabled under capitalism
- [VIDEO] - Disability: A class war

... and ALL disabled person understand how important it is to consider the disabilities of others with empathy instead of intolerance and ignorant comparisons because that how they want people to treat them !

So no, I don't want or can understand someone that compare disabilities or the life of people who struggle and who feel offended by someone that barely saw the light of day in 15 years because of their mental illness.

Sorry not sorry.

 

[Uncle Van]

Again, it isn't my place to speak on that and he doesn't want to talk about it.

Speaking for myself though, I've dealt with disabled people physically and mentally and in my personal experience, 90% of the time the physically disabled are worse off. I recognize mental disabilities and I don't want to downplay them but some are far more significant than others. I've worked with a child that was both mentally retarded and physically disabled, to the point to where she can't speak or walk or do anything unassisted since birth. Compared to that, I would be hard pressed to even consider some of the mentally disabled people I've worked with as "disabled". I'm not trying to sound harsh when I say this but to me, your disability does fall into that category. I'm not saying that your disability isn't something to take seriously but to some, you being classified as disabled can come across like a slap to the face.

Its because Logiko's initial post seriously gave off the impression that he self diagnosed himself to justify being lazy or something. Given how he:
1) Constantly complains about the idea of having to work hard or having control of your life
2) paints himself as a martyr and victim of oppression
3) makes up criteria and definition to fit his own ideology
4) Mocking marginalized groups in his attempts to make himself look better

AL had to no reason to believe anything Logiko said. It's believed Logiko isn't genuine and is instead up to his usual antics. Again, this is the impression he gave off.

 

[Z-Saber]

Its because Logiko's initial post seriously gave off the impression that he self diagnosed himself to justify being lazy or something. Given how he:
1) Constantly complains about the idea of having to work hard or having control of your life
2) paints himself as a martyr and victim of oppression
3) makes up criteria and definition to fit his own ideology
4) Mocking marginalized groups in his attempts to make himself look better

AL had to no reason to believe anything Logiko said. It's believed Logiko isn't genuine and is instead up to his usual antics. Again, this is the impression he gave off.

Oh, well that makes a lot of sense actually. I don't really care to engage in leftist rhetoric @Logiko because I live in a world where every debate doesn't come down to "left vs right". I had a whole response ready to go but its not worth it. I'm not an ablelist and I don't really care if you want to label me as one for saying what I said.

 

[Uncle Van]

Oh, well that makes a lot of sense actually. I don't really care to engage in leftist rhetoric @Logiko because I live in a world where every debate doesn't come down to "left vs right". I had a whole response ready to go but its not worth it. I'm not an ablelist and I don't really care if you want to label me as one for saying what I said.

I made a post some time ago. Logiko said it was right wing rhetoric. Herrara said it was the most woke leftist nonsense he's ever seen. Logiko again for example believes left=good and right=bad which is shows gross lack of political ununderstanding. People are just hyper focused on moral shit slinging as if it's a sports game or something.

 

[Z-Saber]

I made a post some time ago. Logiko said it was right wing rhetoric. Herrara said it was the most woke leftist nonsense he's ever seen. Logiko again for example believes left=good and right=bad which is shows gross lack of political ununderstanding. People are just hyper focused on moral shit slinging as if it's a sports game or something.

Yeah, I don't really think these people are in touch with reality to be honest with you. Its hard to have a productive conversation when you think like that. I like to think that I'm considerate enough to at least try to understand the other person's view point before dismissing it and shoving my own bullshit down their throat but its all a big pissing contest to some people. What post was it if you don't mind sharing?

 

[Logiko]

1) Constantly complains about the idea of having to work hard or having control of your life
2) paints himself as a martyr and victim of oppression
3) makes up criteria and definition to fit his own ideology
4) Mocking marginalized groups in his attempts to make himself look better

1. Is a sentence that does not even make sence
2. Never did that, I'm not a victim of any oppression (well.. not really, I did suffer in the past from ableism but beside that no). I'm on the side of oppressors mate. I'm a straight white men coming from the middle class. You are literally seeing fairies when you think about me.
3. No. Never did that. Once again, a lie.
4. The far rightist here are literally the ones doing that O_O, this reversal of the responsibility is pitiful. I'm literally calling you guys out for being bigoted and toxic people xD

Do you really think that the more you lie, the more people will believe it ?

And if you think I'm gonna let your lies pass, you don't know me well.

I live in a world where every debate doesn't come down to "left vs right"

Take a closer look

I'm not an ablelist and I don't really care if you want to label me as one for saying what I said.

I didn't call you that. I'm only explaining that comparing disabilities and putting some disabilities are more legitimate than others is one of the trick of the ableist side capitalism to entertain the idea that some people are more valuable than others.

No matter where we look, we come back to the concept of meritocracy. Someone with a wheelchair will be seen as a legitimate disabled person, but those with invisible disability (autism or ADHD for example) will suffer the might of the hammer of capitalism and meritocracy.

Logiko again for example believes left=good and right=bad

No.
I believe that left = right and right = wrong.

The fact that people do good or bad things is only a result of what they believe in and I know a lot of rightist people that are good people (family included), they are simply wrong when it comes to the reality of the world.

Yeah, I don't really think these people are in touch with reality to be honest with you.

You have no idea..

Its hard to have a productive conversation when you think like that.

Indeed.

Imagine that you are talking with someone trying to tell you that slavery is a good thing in a world where a new law is about to unban slavery from society.

How would you react or interact with such individual ? Would you speak kindly with them ? Would you try to understand the other person's view point ? Would you take your time to explain why slavery is bad ?

Well, that's how I feel when I talk with people who try to legitimate or explain injustices. (and you really should take a close look, I'm REALLY patient with you guys on this server)

Oh and to get rid of a missconception you seems to have:

I UNDERSTAND the toxic point of views that have been said in this thread. I have said MOST of them already in the past.

 

[Uncle Van]

Yeah, I don't really think these people are in touch with reality to be honest with you. Its hard to have a productive conversation when you think like that. I like to think that I'm considerate enough to at least try to understand the other person's view point before dismissing it and shoving my own bullshit down their throat but its all a big pissing contest to some people. What post was it if you don't mind sharing?

People got their personal own sense of right and wrong, and judge everything from their own moral standpoint. There's rarely practical posts from a general or historical standpoint.

If someone says the minimum wage should increase to $30 and I say that idea is stupid, they will start screaming about how I'm a horrible person, wanted people to be poor and suffer. My personal feelings are irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that corporations would just fire a ton of people and increase prices, making it bad for everyone, as it happened again and again.

It's this post
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-political-discussion.37255/post-5288921

 

[Logiko]

I say that idea is stupid, they will start screaming about how I'm a horrible person, wanted people to be poor and suffer. My personal feelings are irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that corporations would just fire a ton of people and increase prices, making it bad for everyone, as it happened again and again.

In other words, instead of taking the side of workers and their struggle, you are choosing to stick with the talking points and propaganda of those who are exploiting them.

And you wonder then why we would explain that you are on the side of the oppressor ?

Dude.. come on ..

It's this post
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-political-discussion.37255/post-5288921

And for those who are interested by my reply to this post and why I call Van for appropriating here the talking points of confusionnists, rightist and far rightist :

how come radical leftists today are only making things more right wing? BECAUSE THEY'RE FUCKING STUPID!!!!

Oh.. and here comes the problem in your argumentation. "Radical leftist today are only MAKING THINGS more right wing" As if people who choose to be bigots are that way BECAUSE they are REACTING to leftist beliefs and not at all because there are far right lobbist everywhere in socials medias, on youtube, in the news and in politics....

In short, bigots are not bigots by there own fault but by REACTANCE against leftist who are a bit radical sometimes.

In short, its not there fault if the right is the right, its because the left is the left. That... my dear posters, is the golden standard of confusionnism : Attributing the far right radicalisation of the society to the people who are fighting this radicalization and are victim of it.

Male rapist identifying as trans right before their trail and getting sent to a female prison? Pedophiles trying to get renamed to "minor attracted persons"? Teaching children about sex? The crazy appeal to narcissism and changing of definitions for convenience? Trying to stop oil by using oil products? Demonizing men and saying are superior? Forcing transparent politics in entertainment?

how.. but here you are literally appropriating the far right rethorical point.. Not really surprising.

- "Transgender in women prison :" Vice of process, just a system that is not adapted to the situation. This doesn't mean that this situation is stupid.
- "Pedophile trying get renamed to "minor attracted person" ?" I don't think people are trying to rename anything, but expend the already existing definition. I think this article is talking about that:
https://www.criavs-ara.org/wp-conte...ileChild-Loveror-Minor-Attracted-Person...pdf
Nothing to do with what you are saying.
-" Teaching children about sex?" Complete conservative stance.
If you don't teach minor about consent and positive sexual behavior and also how sex work, you will create the field for abuses and people that will have a very bad sexual awakening. Like I explained earlier, explaining the importance of consant, protected sex and respectfull sexual relationship must be done EARLY. So you are again not understanding what you are criticizing. You are just repeating the far right conservative BS as most confusionnist do.
- "The crazy appeal to narcissism and changing of definitions for convenience?" literally wtf are you talking about here... Its completely meaningless.
- "Trying to stop oil by using oil products?" Its like saying that you are not a real anticapitalist if you are using a phone. It's a middle school level argumentation.
-"Demonizing men and saying wom!en? are superior?" No woke groups are saying that. You are in full moral panic mode. Stop listening to the far right.
- "Forcing transparent politics in entertainment?" no one is forcing anything. Politics are part of entertainment since the beginning of entertainment. Its the depolitization of entertainment that is problematic. That's a big old far right and liberal moral panic once again.
-

Not all change is for the betterment of society as you can see.

You are not talking about change here, you are in moral panic mode.

You got two paragraph on point and on the third you choosed to listen to the far right moral panics and thought to yourself.. "hm yes.. I think they are right..."

And that's why I call you a confusionnist and a liberal. Because I know you are aware of the political history of the left and its status on the right, but for ignorant reasons, you prefer to listen to far right moral panic, rather than listen to scientist or militant that you should be agreeing with.. I can't call you a far rightist, but you are on the side of liberals here completely enabling the status co and the critic of those who fight against it.