Who will be the 47th President of the United States of America?


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
H

Herrera95

No. I'm not only reversing your outrage, I'm also adding the fact that you support literal children bombing.
That's you who is in favor of Hamas to exist.

Depp is not innocent mate. He is an abuser.

Once again, you are taking the side of the oppressor.
You are hopeless. Depp is not the one charged of paying millions to Amber Heard.

Only Daesh and Al Quaida are considered Terrorist group by international right. I don't make the laws. Educate yourself.
Depends what your international means. Plenty of countries considered them terrorist groups. Only the pro terrorist UN that was already proved to be aiding Hamas terrorist and war crime actions denies that.
 
Third Geneva Convention, Article 23, first paragraph
ART. 23. — No prisoner of war may at any time be sent to, or detained in areas where he may be exposed to the fire of the combat zone, nor may his presence be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations
Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 28
The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.
Additional Protocol I, Article 51(7)
7. The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.

Some of the articles of Geneva convention are what are used as arguments that Israel commited war crimes (additional protocol article 17- forced movement of civilians as a example). So putting civilians in risk to protect military objectives or operations, including using human shields are considered war crimes by many nations, including those that do not participate in those treaties. For more information I recommend this link .
This is a good insight.


That's you who is in favor of Hamas to exist.
No mate. I rather see there a progressist group of resistant. But they don't really have a choice, do they ?


You are hopeless. Depp is not the one charged of paying millions to Amber Heard.
This was a diffamation case mate. They did not state on the fact that Depp was an abuser.


Depends what your international means.
International rights means international rights. Those are the things that Israel is stepping on right now.


Plenty of countries considered them terrorist groups.
Yeah "country". But the international law prevail in this case. So international rights it is. Country can be politically biased, the international courts, a lot less.
 
Third Geneva Convention, Article 23, first paragraph
ART. 23. — No prisoner of war may at any time be sent to, or detained in areas where he may be exposed to the fire of the combat zone, nor may his presence be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations
Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 28
The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.
Additional Protocol I, Article 51(7)
7. The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.

Some of the articles of Geneva convention are what are used as arguments that Israel commited war crimes (additional protocol article 17- forced movement of civilians as a example). So putting civilians in risk to protect military objectives or operations, including using human shields are considered war crimes by many nations, including those that do not participate in those treaties. For more information I recommend this link .
Oh nvm then
 
H

Herrera95

No mate. I rather see there a progressist group of resistant. But they don't really have a choice, do they ?
Now you even changing the meaning of progress :suresure:

Killing single moms, gay people and woman that shows their ankles are the new progressism?

This was a diffamation case mate. They did not state on the fact that Depp was an abuser.
No dude. She had no case of him being an abuser. That's why she lost.

Yeah "country". But the international law prevail in this case. So international rights it is. Country can be politically biased, the international courts, a lot less.
International means more than one country. In fact countries supremacy are much greater than a said international organ that has no power over anything. Specially when the "good" countries are in favor of Israel and the "bad" ones are against.
 
Now you even changing the meaning of progress :suresure:

Killing single moms, gay people and woman that shows their ankles are the new progressism?
I just told you that I'd prefer a progressive group. Don't you know how to read Stephen King ?


No dude. She had no case of him being an abuser. That's why she lost.
Again, it was a process in defamation mate, not a process for abuse. And there was indeed evidence of abuse on both parts. I know you love to take the side of oppressors but that case is far from black and white.

What Depp did is actually known as a gag lawsuit. In fact, the ruling was actually debatable as its was livestream and pressures where put on the jury on all parts. This trial was a failure.


International means more than one country.
International means ALL COUNTRY. In fact a person doesn't need to be apart of a country that is a member of the international courts, they will be pursuit anyway.


In fact countries supremacy are much greater than a said international organ that has no power over anything.
Yes, for people - like Netanyahou or Biden - that think that their country are above the law. Which can create situation of extrem destruction. In other words : oppressors.


Specially when the "good" countries are in favor of Israel and the "bad" ones are against.
There is no "bad" and "good" country. There are only toxic and non toxic goverments. And right now, I will not call America or France with their colonial past, "good examples". No. Colonialist befriends colonialist.

And you are defending a colonialist.
 
Yeah "country". But the international law prevail in this case. So international rights it is. Country can be politically biased, the international courts, a lot less.
This is incredible incorrect. The nature of international relations make it so that international law is hard politicized. First because those laws are more like agreements that countries can ratify in full, in part or even not sign(as a basic example the United States were never part of the League of Nations and so are under no obligation under international law to follow their rules). Second, because groups like ONU, International Court and others are more like a group of peers that arbitrate decisions and are usually paralyzed against those with high political and militar power. What this means is that acting as if there's a single set of rules and a ruling body in international relations is amateurish at best and wrong 99% of the time.

While international law is actually effective (to the degree that international law can be) when dealing with economic disagreements and violations, when treating with military, political and humanitarian issues it is incredible difficult to reach an agreement and effective decisions. There's a specific reason why proper annalists say something like ''under international law the actions of X group can be considered terrorist '' and not ''this group is terrorist under international law''.

So, if we are acting in good faith, using Hamas as a basic example, their actions seem to violate regional and global International laws (as listed in those conventions here) and they are considered terrorist by a number of countries that signed those conventions including United States and those in European Union, however ONU still is in discussion about the issue including dealing with accusations of UNWRA being in cahoots with Hamas to avoid classifying the group as a terrorist organization (This is the link with their comprehensive response to this allegation).

If you are arguing that Hamas is not a terrorist organization under the understanding of ONU (notice that this is slightly different than following international law stricto sensu) you would have to argue why it don't follow the definition listed here and not use the argument that it still not officially registered as a terrorist organization because of the issues listed above. To make it simple this is the definition on the link of a terrorist organization:

> This customary rule requires the following three key elements: (i) the perpetration of a criminal act (such as murder, kidnapping, hostage-taking, arson, and so on), or threatening such an act; (ii) the intent to spread fear among the population (which would generally entail the creation of public danger) or directly or indirectly coerce a national or international authority to take some action, or to refrain from taking it; (iii) when the act involves a transnational element. ( Interlocutory Decision, 2011, para. 85).

In resume, successfully arguing using international law (either in stricto or lato sensu) that Hamas isn't a terrorist organization is a incredible hard feat, since they did violate international treaties and conventions agreed by numerous states. Usually when entities or groups refuse to name Hamas as a terrorist organization is because of issues beyond the simple scope of law ( in this case many consider that the risk of making the fight of Palestinians illegitimate by association isn't worth naming Hamas as a terrorist group despite their actions).

International means ALL COUNTRY.
No. It means '' legal responsibilities of States in their conduct with each other, and their treatment of individuals within State boundaries.'' A nation is limited by what they ratify.

In fact a person doesn't need to be apart of a country that is a member of the international courts, they will be pursuit anyway.
This is actually false. There's a small thing called jurisdiction. Using the international Criminal Court as a example, it has jurisdiction over:

  • the crimes were committed by a State Party national, or in the territory of a State Party, or in a State that has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court; or
  • the crimes were referred to the ICC Prosecutor by the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) pursuant to a resolution adopted under chapter VII of the UN charter.
You are probably thinking about issues where a member of the Security Council redirects a state that did not sign the Treaty of Rome (the one that created the International Criminal Court) to be evaluated. However the court make it specifically clear that ''Also, under these circumstances, the Court shall not exercise its jurisdiction regarding a crime of aggression when committed by a national or on the territory of a State Party that has not ratified or accepted these amendments. ''. Basically, they see that there is a crime and make statements condemning the act but outside of that they do nothing (or redirect to treaties that allow economic sanctions and so on).

Again, International Relations and International Law is very political and not as simple as you may think.
 
H

Herrera95

I just told you that I'd prefer a progressive group. Don't you know how to read Stephen King ?
Yeah you are justifying their killing because there is no other option than being a nazi and killing all the jews.

Again, it was a process in defamation mate, not a process for abuse. And there was indeed evidence of abuse on both parts. I know you love to take the side of oppressors but that case is far from black and white.

What Depp did is actually known as a gag lawsuit. In fact, the ruling was actually debatable as its was livestream and pressures where put on the jury on all parts. This trial was a failure.
She only lost because no abuse was proved.

International means ALL COUNTRY. In fact a person doesn't need to be apart of a country that is a member of the international courts, they will be pursuit anyway.
Not it doesn't. And even by your definition you are wrong since there are countries that disagree with you.

Yes, for people - like Netanyahou or Biden - that think that their country are above the law. Which can create situation of extrem destruction. In other words : oppressors.
Their country are sovereigns. There is no global order to rule over a country. No one votes for the nazi leftists of UN to rule over the world. Democracy you know? Not the dictatorship Soviet Union you dream of.

There is no "bad" and "good" country. There are only toxic and non toxic goverments. And right now, I will not call America or France with their colonial past, "good examples". No. Colonialist befriends colonialist.

And you are defending a colonialist.
Yes there are. There are the good peaceful democratic countries and there are the bad aggressive dictatorships seeking war. USA and French are now good examples of countries but that doesn't erase their mistakes from the past. Same goes to your German. Different from North Korea, Venezuela, China, Russia, Iran, Cuba that are bad countries. And many others specially from Africa.
 
This is incredible incorrect.
No lol


The nature of international relations make it so that international law is hard politicized
Which does not indicate that what I said is wrong. The political is not necesserily biased, the political if a conflict of VALUE. In other word, yes, the nature of international LAWS can be hardcore politicized but because of their international nature, they are also most of the time unbiased.

Learn the difference between a bias and a value please.


First because those laws are more like agreements that countries can ratify in full, in part or even not sign(as a basic example the United States were never part of the League of Nations and so are under no obligation under international law to follow their rules)
Which is a problem.

You can't wish to be part of a word and not be taken accountable for what you are doing in it at the same time. That's a basic rule of conduct.

The US - like other country - will have to follow the rest a abide by international laws.

Second, because groups like ONU, International Court and others are more like a group of peers that arbitrate decisions and are usually paralyzed against those with high political and militar power.
As long as they are legimitated by the context of the world, those groups must be respected. EVEN if they don't have high political and militar power.

So I repeat : International laws MUST prevail.
Simply because they are one of th foundation of the world harmony. Without that, we can say byebye to human rights all over the world.


What this means is that acting as if there's a single set of rules and a ruling body in international relations is amateurish at best and wrong 99% of the time.
And that's not what I did, but I'm use to discuss with people who don't read correctly.


While international law is actually effective (to the degree that international law can be) when dealing with economic disagreements and violations, when treating with military, political and humanitarian issues it is incredible difficult to reach an agreement and effective decisions.
Indeed. Spoiler Alert : Working together is hard.


There's a specific reason why proper annalists say something like ''under international law the actions of X group can be considered terrorist '' and not ''this group is terrorist under international law''.
Yes. And in those case, I will ALWAYS follow the international laws as they are - in the context of a free world - the most likely to be unbiased on the situation. I really don't want to hear the opinion of colonial countries such as France, Israel or USA.


their actions seem to violate regional and global International laws
Yes and they the prosecutor of the ICC asked an arrest warrent for some of its members. No one is denying the actions of Hamas here.


and they are considered terrorist by a number of countries
Which is again, isignificant in regard to international laws. Any kind of group of resistance against an oppressor can be considered terrorist so using the labels of colonials state to describe an armed resistance (however radical, foundamentalist it can be) even when said resistance has done - like the oppressor - War crimes - is not something that we must do.

To prosecute those people (Israeli or Hamas) for war crimes or crime against humanity, we must use international laws.


including dealing with accusations of UNWRA being in cahoots with Hamas
This is only a rumor, there are no actual evidences for this. In fact some country (like Italy for ex) just restarted to send ressources to UNWRA.

If you are arguing that Hamas is not a terrorist organization under the understanding of ONU
More under the ruling of the ICC and ICJ. The actual court that have a ruling power.

In resume, successfully arguing using international law (either in stricto or lato sensu) that Hamas isn't a terrorist organization is a incredible hard feat, since they did violate international treaties and conventions agreed by numerous states. Usually when entities or groups refuse to name Hamas as a terrorist organization is because of issues beyond the simple scope of law ( in this case many consider that the risk of making the fight of Palestinians illegitimate by association isn't worth naming Hamas as a terrorist group despite their actions).
In reality, you could also use that definition to define the gov of Israel as terrorist ALSO. As they are doing those exact things :

> This customary rule requires the following three key elements: (i) the perpetration of a criminal act (such as murder, kidnapping, hostage-taking, arson, and so on), or threatening such an act; (ii) the intent to spread fear among the population (which would generally entail the creation of public danger) or directly or indirectly coerce a national or international authority to take some action, or to refrain from taking it; (iii) when the act involves a transnational element. ( Interlocutory Decision, 2011, para. 85).


You see how using this definition is actually quite a trap and not really usefull. The point is that if an element of an organization is qualified as terrorist, it can't be prosecuted as a war criminal criminal of crime against humanity and those sanction are much more important in term of impact.

Hamas is a armed radical resistant group involved in multiple war crimes and crime against humanity. The members involved must be brought to justice. Simple as that.


Basically, they see that there is a crime and make statements condemning the act but outside of that they do nothing (or redirect to treaties that allow economic sanctions and so on).

Again, International Relations and International Law is very political and not as simple as you may think.
No. it means literally ALL country. NO man or women in any country on earth is safe from being brought to justice in front of an international court. That's the power of international right.

The Member are those who legitimate this process, but the extent of the process surpass the limits of the group. The international laws apply for ALL country on earth. Without exceptions.

What you are saying is that the courts can't force anything on a country that is not a state member. And that's true. But that's why they issue arrest warrants in the case of said person leaves the country toward a state member.

Yeah you are justifying their killing because there is no other option than being a nazi and killing all the jews.
You have a problem of comprehension I think, are you projecting your desires here ?


She only lost because no abuse was proved.
Again, its was not a case about an abuser, it was a defammation case.


Not it doesn't. And even by your definition you are wrong since there are countries that disagree with you.
Well, spoiler, if Netanyahou leaves Israel, the state member might have to arrest his a*s


Their country are sovereigns. There is no global order to rule over a country.
Technically yes, there are.
People can't do what they want and expect no accountability. If you act like a monster, be prepared to be treated like one.


No one votes for the nazi leftists of UN to rule over the world
The Nazi leftist ? After all this time discussing with me, you still haven't understood the simple basic fact that Socialism and Nazism are complete opposites ? Do you have comprehension issues mate ?


Not the dictatorship Soviet Union you dream of.
You cringe bro

There are the good peaceful democratic countries and there are the bad aggressive dictatorships seeking war
Indeed, USA and Israel are seeking War, France doesn't want to stop helping ISrael or recognize Palestine and socialist countries such as Ireland, Norway and Spain are trying just recognized Palestine as a state and therefore made a step toward peace.

I see what you are saying. The gov of Israel, France and USA are indeed the problems.
 
H

Herrera95

You have a problem of comprehension I think, are you projecting your desires here ?
I'm putting your words as they are. Defending Hamas and rejecting Israle the right of defend themselves.

Again, its was not a case about an abuser, it was a defammation case.
Talking about reading comprehensive you can't understand that she was only guilty of defamation because she couldn't prove Depp abused her because it was a fucking lie.

Well, spoiler, if Netanyahou leaves Israel, the state member might have to arrest his a*s
Wait for the sentence. And while you wait try to learn a thing or two about justice. No one arrests fucking Putin. No one will arrest Netanyahou too.

Technically yes, there are.
People can't do what they want and expect no accountability. If you act like a monster, be prepared to be treated like one.
The left is the one who takes no accountability for their delusional politics. Well no other than losing next elections if they don't turn the country into a fucking dictatorship which they are legends in doing it.

The Nazi leftist ? After all this time discussing with me, you still haven't understood the simple basic fact that Socialism and Nazism are complete opposites ? Do you have comprehension issues mate ?
No they are not. In fact before WW2 German Hitler and Soviet Union wre pretty friendly before they started having misunderstood and fighting each other.

You dream of living in a communism country but never goes to one and I'm the cringe one?

Indeed, USA and Israel are seeking War, France doesn't want to stop helping ISrael or recognize Palestine and socialist countries such as Ireland, Norway and Spain are trying just recognized Palestine as a state and therefore made a step toward peace.

I see what you are saying. The gov of Israel, France and USA are indeed the problems.
That but the opposite. All those said socialist countries will face the same consequences as Russia that got recently attacked by terrorists that they are defending now against Israel. And Putin shamefully tried to blame Ukraine while having the terrorist leader public taking accountability for the act. Yall bunch of crazy with 0 world knowledge and condemning your own society to the inevitable collapse. Look at fucking California allowing people to steal up to 900 hundred without facing any consequences.
 
No lol



Which does not indicate that what I said is wrong. The political is not necesserily biased, the political if a conflict of VALUE. In other word, yes, the nature of international LAWS can be hardcore politicized but because of their international nature, they are also most of the time unbiased.

Learn the difference between a bias and a value please.



Which is a problem.

You can't wish to be part of a word and not be taken accountable for what you are doing in it at the same time. That's a basic rule of conduct.

The US - like other country - will have to follow the rest a abide by international laws.


As long as they are legimitated by the context of the world, those groups must be respected. EVEN if they don't have high political and militar power.

So I repeat : International laws MUST prevail. Simply because they are one of th foundation of the world harmony. Without that, we can say byebye to human rights all over the world.



And that's not what I did, but I'm use to discuss with people who don't read correctly.



Indeed. Spoiler Alert : Working together is hard.



Yes. And in those case, I will ALWAYS follow the international laws as they are - in the context of a free world - the most likely to be unbiased on the situation. I really don't want to hear the opinion of colonial countries such as France, Israel or USA.



Yes and they the prosecutor of the ICC asked an arrest warrent for some of its members. No one is denying the actions of Hamas here.



Which is again, isignificant in regard to international laws. Any kind of group of resistance against an oppressor can be considered terrorist so using the labels of colonials state to describe an armed resistance (however radical, foundamentalist it can be) even when said resistance has done - like the oppressor - War crimes - is not something that we must do.

To prosecute those people (Israeli or Hamas) for war crimes or crime against humanity, we must use international laws.



This is only a rumor, there are no actual evidences for this. In fact some country (like Italy for ex) just restarted to send ressources to UNWRA.


More under the ruling of the ICC and ICJ. The actual court that have a ruling power.


In reality, you could also use that definition to define the gov of Israel as terrorist ALSO. As they are doing those exact things :

> This customary rule requires the following three key elements: (i) the perpetration of a criminal act (such as murder, kidnapping, hostage-taking, arson, and so on), or threatening such an act; (ii) the intent to spread fear among the population (which would generally entail the creation of public danger) or directly or indirectly coerce a national or international authority to take some action, or to refrain from taking it; (iii) when the act involves a transnational element. ( Interlocutory Decision, 2011, para. 85).

You see how using this definition is actually quite a trap and not really usefull. The point is that if an element of an organization is qualified as terrorist, it can't be prosecuted as a war criminal criminal of crime against humanity and those sanction are much more important in term of impact.

Hamas is a armed radical resistant group involved in multiple war crimes and crime against humanity. The members involved must be brought to justice. Simple as that.


No. it means literally ALL country. NO man or women in any country on earth is safe from being brought to justice in front of an international court. That's the power of international right.

The Member are those who legitimate this process, but the extent of the process surpass the limits of the group. The international laws apply for ALL country on earth. Without exceptions.

What you are saying is that the courts can't force anything on a country that is not a state member. And that's true. But that's why they issue arrest warrants in the case of said person leaves the country toward a state member.

.
There's a specific reason why I put the link to ONU and other agencies like ICC. Because everything I said is backed by official sources. You trying to change definitions don't work here.

There's a specific definition of international law, a specific ruling to evaluate if a group can be considered terrorist, specific treaties and conventions about various facets of terrorism and specific restrictions about what and who can be brought to face a international court. I even included the link and statement of the ICC that it will not prosecute a national from a state that is not a party of the relevant treaties. You are mistaking the actions of individual countries (manly USA) for the actions of the ICC.

So, if you want to disprove the point use a official source instead of whatever you dreamed or misread.
 
I'm putting your words as they are. Defending Hamas and rejecting Israle the right of defend themselves.
I'm doing neither. Israel has the right to defend itself and I'm still not defending Hamas. Explaining what Hamas is does not mean I defend this organization and explaining that Israel is doing a genocide is not explaining that they don't have the right to defend themself. Your intellectual lazyness will never stop it seems, same as your lies.

You are literally caught lying in 4K and you keep doing it. I have to respect that. It takes balls to be that intellectually fallacious and keep on coming back.

Talking about reading comprehensive you can't understand that she was only guilty of defamation because she couldn't prove Depp abused her because it was a fucking lie.
She actually proved it, the evidences were simply not taken into account. The evidences don't lie mate.


Wait for the sentence. And while you wait try to learn a thing or two about justice. No one arrests fucking Putin. No one will arrest Netanyahou too.
No one arrest Putin because Putin did not come in the west yet Einstein. Trust me that if Putin sets foot in France, germany, USA or any country that actually apply the international ruling, he will be arrested.

So if the war criminal Netanyahou does that too, he will be arrested as well... unless countries refuses to apply the rules but in that case it will be the end of the international right and say bye bye to human rights all over the world.


The left is the one who takes no accountability for their delusional politics.
We don't have to take accountability, we did nothing wrong here.


Well no other than losing next elections if they don't turn the country into a fucking dictatorship which they are legends in doing it.
You won't laugh long once you will have tested a decade or two of your own political vision in your gov mate. Don't come back crying then because those guys treats you like sh*t.

No they are not. In fact before WW2 German Hitler and Soviet Union wre pretty friendly before they started having misunderstood and fighting each other.
Keeping on repeating fallacious rethoric will not help you mate. The soviet Union was not allied with Nazi, they simply struck a deal of non agression (if I remember correctly what I said to you already about that). It was necessary to avoid war. They were not friendly. But your political side is definitely friendly with those kind of rethoric for sure.


You dream of living in a communism country but never goes to one and I'm the cringe one?
Actually, I dream of complete anarchy bro. You don't know me very well.

And you really don't know what communism is if you think that all communist are the same or have the same values.


That but the opposite.
No. You said it perfectly. Usa, Israel, and country like France are war mongering colonialist countries, their gov is part of the problem.

FOr once, you said something just. Own it bro.

:shocking:


All those said socialist countries will face the same consequences as Russia that got recently attacked by terrorists
I don't know why any terrorist would target socialist country who recognize Palestine mate. Unless you are talking about ultra sionist potential terrorist maybe ?


nd Putin shamefully tried to blame Ukraine while having the terrorist leader public taking accountability for the act.
Well Putin is a war criminal so its not a surprise.


Yall bunch of crazy with 0 world knowledge
You are the one saying climate change is not real and Capitalism will solve all our problem Sherlock. In term of world knowledge, I don't think I have a lot to learn from you.

Because everything I said is backed by official sources.
Yup. Me too.


You trying to change definitions don't work here.
I'm not trying to change anything. I'm explaining the line that you didn't read.


There's a specific definition of international law, a specific ruling to evaluate if a group can be considered terrorist, specific treaties and conventions about various facets of terrorism and specific restrictions about what and who can be brought to face a international court.
Yes and right now, Hamas is not considered a terrorist organization in the eyes of international laws. Until its the case, its a radical resistant group. It did something horrible but its still a group whose member can be procecuted in front of international courts.


ICC that it will not prosecute a national from a state that is not a party of the relevant treaties.
You forgot the line

"the crimes were referred to the ICC Prosecutor by the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) pursuant to a resolution adopted under chapter VII of the UN charter. "

In other words, the prosecutor can demand an arrest warrant for any member of a state in the world. But the arrest will only happen if said individual set foot on a state party.

At least that what my informations are telling me. If you have a better understanding of this point, go ahead and explain it to me.

You are mistaking the actions of individual countries (manly USA) for the actions of the ICC.
Not really no. I'm explaining specifically that those are two different entities.
 
Last edited:
Link to the ONU page that defines those things as you said:
International means ALL COUNTRY.
In fact a person doesn't need to be apart of a country that is a member of the international courts, they will be pursuit anyway.
Those two go against the definition of international law by ONU and the jurisdiction of ICC. Post links confirming you definition.

I'm not trying to change anything. I'm explaining the line that you didn't read.
I read the full text, including the part that explain why Israel could not be considered a terrorist organization that you tried to argue.

Yes and right now, Hamas is not considered a terrorist organization in the eyes of international laws.
No. International laws and international entities are separate things. You can argue that relevant international organizations don't consider Hamas a terrorist organization. But to argue that it is not a terrorist organization according to international law, you would have to argue why it don't fit the criteria listed by in the ONU link that I posted earlier.

You forgot the line

"the crimes were referred to the ICC Prosecutor by the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) pursuant to a resolution adopted under chapter VII of the UN charter. "
This is the criteria to be evaluated by the court. I didn't forget since it was me that posted. The line:

>''Also, under these circumstances, the Court shall not exercise its jurisdiction regarding a crime of aggression when committed by a national or on the territory of a State Party that has not ratified or accepted these amendments. ''

is AFTER those points to explain what they will actually do if the affected party is not part of those treaties. You didn't even click on the link, it seems. Again, this is the page of the ICC website that is literally ''how the court works''.

In other words, the prosecutor can demand an arrest warrant for any member of a state in the world. But the arrest will only happen if said individual set foot on a state party.
No. They can ask for the arrest of parties that are members of the treaty of Rome or did crimes on territories of those that signed the treaty. Israel didn't sign the Treaty of Rome, as a example, but ICC justified the initial mention of prison of its prime minister because Palestine is a member of ICC and the crimes were made in their territory. When the crimes happened in a place and people not linked to the treaty they can't do anything. As a example, North Korea is considered since 2013 as a state that commit crimes against humanity but unless the security council refers it to prosecution nothing will happen since it is not a member of ICC. IF the security council refers the case to ICC and North Korea is condemned, they will give their decision and individual states will act based on their own interests without the organized front that would happen if it was a state that was a party of the treaty. And that is because they don't have jurisdiction on North Korea (see source above).

At least that what my informations are telling me. If you have a better understanding of this point, go ahead and explain it to me.
I don't know where do you get your information but the statute is pretty clear. They will act on situations that are under their jurisdiction and are unable to act when it doesn't. They have tools to increase their jurisdiction (the security council) but when they act in this way their function is most as a non-partisan entity. Again, you can read about it here.

Not really no. I'm explaining specifically that those are two different entities.
Because you don't understand how things work. The actions that you mentioned are most carried by Interpol. They have a database (that you can access here) that list wanted persons around the world and by what country. Individual countries can help prosecute and extradite those people according to their individual treaties (as a example, you can look at Cesari Battisti that was wanted as a terrorist in Italy and managed to seek asylum in Brazil). Basically is a international group that helps local police coordinate.

The ICC, on the other hand, has only ordered the arrest of 46 people since it was established of the 57 that it had investigated and every single one was linked to a nation that was a party of the treaty of Rome. This is the list of defendants and their cases.
 
Link to the ONU page that defines those things as you said:
NEVERMIND EVERYTHING THAT IS SAID PREVIOUSLY.

You are right, I just made some researches and the ICC can't indeed have a jurisdiction in the entire world and that is something that I didn't fully understand. Simply because I missinterpreted completely a information I just got recently.

I thought that the jurisdiction was extented to the entire world but no, its ONLY for state member and state that RECOGNIZE the competence of the ICC.

What made me missunderstand that information is the case of the arrest warrant of PUtin when in reality nether Ukraine or Russia are state members and the strange wording of the page. But what I didn't know is that Kiev recognize the ICC and thus the ICC was able to make an investigation and create an arrest warrant.

Meaculpa



No. International laws and international entities are separate things. You can argue that relevant international organizations don't consider Hamas a terrorist organization. But to argue that it is not a terrorist organization according to international law, you would have to argue why it don't fit the criteria listed by in the ONU link that I posted earlier.
Fair. International entities *


I don't know where do you get your information but the statute is pretty clear. They will act on situations that are under their jurisdiction and are unable to act when it doesn't. They have tools to increase their jurisdiction (the security council) but when they act in this way their function is most as a non-partisan entity. Again, you can read about it here.
My information was good and was saying the same thing as you, I simply missunderstood it. International right is really not my first language lol My bad.

At the same time I'm reassured, because something felt indeed off. Thanks you for making me understanding that.

Good stuff !!:kata::optimistic:
 
Last edited:
I am interested in understanding what a gay muslim’s relationship with Islam is

I know very little about Islam, but from what I do know, isn’t the religion very orthodox? Like y’all believe that the Quran is the definite word of G-d spoken to Muhammad.
Post automatically merged:

I know for me and Judaism, I don’t know to what degree G-d actually cares about homosexuality. I think it’s possible that that’s just something some old Jews chose to oppose.

I feel like minor sins that don’t actually hurt others like breaking kashrut or having gay sex aren’t things G-d is really going to damn me for.

I think what is important in the religion for me is the community, the relationship to G-d, and a lot of the cultural stuff.

But I’m not perfect and I know G-d knows I’m not. If I eat a cheeseburger I doubt I’m going to be tortured for it and the same goes for gay sex. Sin is part of life, that’s what Yom Kippur is for.

I think the big sins are ones you make against other people. Because G-d can’t just forgive those ones for you. The sins you make against others, those are the ones which will damn you.
 
Last edited:
I am interested in understanding what a gay muslim’s relationship with Islam is

I know very little about Islam, but from what I do know, isn’t the religion very orthodox? Like y’all believe that the Quran is the definite word of G-d spoken to Muhammad.
Post automatically merged:

I know for me and Judaism, I don’t know to what degree G-d actually cares about homosexuality. I think it’s possible that that’s just something some old Jews chose to oppose.

I feel like minor sins that don’t actually hurt others like breaking kashrut or having gay sex aren’t things G-d is really going to damn me for.

I think what is important in the religion for me is the community, the relationship to G-d, and a lot of the cultural stuff.

But I’m not perfect and I know G-d knows I’m not. If I eat a cheeseburger I doubt I’m going to be tortured for it and the same goes for gay sex. Sin is part of life, that’s what Yom Kippur is for.

I think the big sins are ones you make against other people. Because G-d can’t just forgive those ones for you. The sins you make against others, those are the ones which will damn you.
I'm very interested too. I know muslim queer exist but I never had the occasion to really understand how they are dealing with the writings and the religious system.
 
Top