Controversial General Political Discussion

Germinator

Germinator

‎
#52,961
#52,961
Etzel Andergast said:
Color's perception aren't a material thing. Color is the subjective effect caused by wavelenghts of light. What is material is the wavelenghts, not the subjective effect we call color

Confusing the two leads to metaphysical problems
Click to expand...
I was referring to strictly that the perception of it via the senses
Post automatically merged:

Zenos7 said:
@Germinator so are you a creationist or what?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
NAMELESS

NAMELESS

‎
#52,963
#52,963
Brush D. Teeth said:
What's wrong with saying the truth? Political opinions are not balanced between sexes.

The main reason is they are cheaper workers for the 1%.
Click to expand...
For the average joe? Maybe. For the criminal type? No.
Post automatically merged:

Logiko said:
Ok.
But you are defending a system that is oppressing you and is doing exactly that but to exploit you instead of helping you. You are not a billionnaire, you are struggling just like us.

-------

Changing the structures of society CAN be control if it is done without democracy and without transparency. But we are talking about fighting oppressions through restructuration here, not controlling what you think. Even you should be able to understand the difference.

Ok, you do not want a centralized government. You know what ? Me neither. If I had the choice, I would prefer to be auto organized societies. (Hence why I'm leaning more toward anarchism than communism)

But under capitalism, we don't have a choice. When the seek for profit can literally transform people into the worst version of themselves, how are you sure that those who don't have the ressources to keep up with the system can participate in society ? How do you make sure your water is safe ?

Well.. Regulations and taxes.

Under capitalism, it's not possible to do it differently. At least if you consider that we should not abandon those people or that we should not be allowed to sell poison to people (those are just examples).

I understand the fear of the state, but in this case, it's irrationnal at best. When individual people own a capital that a normal human working with more or less 6 $ per hours would make in 13+ MILLION years, we NEED a state to regulate such things.

Or.. you consider that it is normal ?



This is literally what is happening with what people call techno feodalism... you are defending that.



You are literally defending technocracy here. The very thing that you do not want to happen.



We live in capitalism. There is no such system as higher capitalism, after that it is libertariannism, which is even deadlier even more oppressive. Take a pause for a moment and accept that at least. We live in an era where the search for profit and the exploitation of worker is part of the system.

This. is. capitalism.

Now....


While it is complex to be precise, an estimation and most of all, a comparison between the number of death between capitalism and communism/socialism can CLEARLY be made.

This article shows very well that while socialism and communism actually were problematic period, what is happening under capitalism is even worse. We should not compare the death, but you give me no choice.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10455752.2021.1875603

We are talking about 100 MILLIONS of death for wars alone in the last centuries because of said capitalism impact.

Noam Chomsky, using finding about India even said concluded that "in India the democratic capitalist “experiment” since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the “colossal, wholly failed … experiment” of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since [...]"

To that, you can had free market policies, politics, exploitation and poverty... the number will be just IMMENSE.

----------

I understand your focus on leftism and communism. Latine america is heavily corrupted and arbore a socialist face, so you make the shortcut that socialism is the problem.

But you need to face reality:

Capitalism is the problem.

Capitalism is the reason why your country is corrupted in the first place, not socialism, not leftism, not progressism, not women or trans people: CAPITALISM and the seeking for profit.

I'm actually begging you to take a step back and watch at reality with a rationnal eye and serenity. Listen to scientist, read about social science. Try to understand what being materialist means.

This is me not wanting to let go and trying one last time.. Please, listen.

Take a look at this:

Click to expand...
You are completely ignorant about cryptocurrency. It's a decentralized tech. Nobody can break it's cryptography either, this is why bitcoin is safe and govs hate it: THEY CAN'T CONTROL IT. It's the same for the internet for the most part.
I'm not going to argue with you about capitalism x communism. You already proved yourself immune to logic and facts. I thought you matured a bit, it seems i was mistaken.
Post automatically merged:

Uncle Van said:
Capitalism encourages greed, ego, and hyper individualism. Communism pretends greed, ego, and hyper individualism doesn't exist. Under capitalism, it's a slow death as regulations are gradually removed to support those with lots of captital. Under communism, it's a quick death as high corruption runs rampant.

Capitalism can work, and has worked, if properly regulated. Communism doesn't work and has failed miserably over and over. Capitalism in Amerca ≠ Capitalism in Europe ≠Capitalism in Brazil. (I'm bored and just wanted to say shit).
Click to expand...
It also encourages perfection of individuals skills. It's because of this competition that our tech is advancing so much lately. Communism does the opposite, it takes away the sense of reward, so people feel no incentive to give their best.
 
Last edited:
Brush D. Teeth

Brush D. Teeth

‎
#52,966
#52,966
NAMELESS said:
I was talking about police and tribunals not going after those rapist gangs. They have no legal reasons for this. This is pure political. It's negligent at best and CRIMINAL at worst. I hear this is happening cause the left completely took over England's justice system. This is treason.
Click to expand...
In a lot of cases the average Joe, as you say, doesn't really care about someone from another community being harmed by someone else from his own community. In many cases they are still in favour of the guy from their own community. Punishing these guys and deporting them may really cause mass revolts.
 
NAMELESS

NAMELESS

‎
#52,967
#52,967
Luffy is the mc said:
He's what some people call a "useful idiot" for corporate interests. He thinks the rich and powerful dislike or fear his ideas when in fact they very much love him for having these ideas and trying hard to push them on others.
Click to expand...
They finance those that spread such ideas afterall.
Post automatically merged:

Brush D. Teeth said:
In a lot of cases the average Joe, as you say, doesn't really care about someone from another community being harmed by someone else from his own community. In many cases they are still in favour of the guy from their own community. Punishing these guys and deporting them may really cause mass revolts.
Click to expand...
Everyone is equal under the Law. Crime needs to be punished. Period. Riots can be dealt with by the police. There is no justification what is going on in the UK. It's criminal.
 
Zenos7

Zenos7

‎
#52,968
#52,968
Germinator said:
Yes
Click to expand...
So you dont accept that evolution is a thing and that we are primates?
Post automatically merged:

NAMELESS said:
Communism does the opposite, it takes away the sense of reward, so people feel no incentive to give their best.
Click to expand...
On average this might be true.
Post automatically merged:

Zenos7 said:
Just going to share an evolutionary biologist thats also a christian (maybe that helps?!) adressing creationist arguments. He has two more videos like this, going over even more arguments.

Generally a nice channel.

Click to expand...
@Germinator
 
dirtyLarry

dirtyLarry

‎
#52,971
#52,971
Bisoromi Bear said:
You're talking about Trump / afd fans here, right?
Logiko is one indeed just on the other end of the spectrum
Click to expand...
That's exactly why he is a "useful idiot" - just like the common supporters of the extreme right on the other end of the spectrum.

Divide et impera

He's so dedicated to the ideas of his radical leftist bubble (and therefore also the "enemies" of their ideals), that he perfectly plays into the hands of the real establishment without realizing this himself.

Guys like him are getting played like a fiddle.
 
Brush D. Teeth

Brush D. Teeth

‎
#52,972
#52,972
NAMELESS said:
Everyone is equal under the Law. Crime needs to be punished. Period. Riots can be dealt with by the police. There is no justification what is going on in the UK. It's criminal.
Click to expand...
These things are inconsequential for the 1%, what matters is having cheap labor and making greater profits.
Roo said:
Man what kind of retard you have to be to still be a creationist in the year of our lord 2025
Click to expand...
Creation was never in doubt in Christianity, it's just that now most people don't believe it to be irreconciliable with Darwin's theory.
 
Zenos7

Zenos7

‎
#52,974
#52,974
Roo said:
Man what kind of retard you have to be to still be a creationist in the year of our lord 2025
Click to expand...
Eh, depends on the specifics. Creation and evolution arent necessarily mutually exclusive.

But sure, denying evolution is like believing in flat earth. . .
Post automatically merged:

Brush D. Teeth said:
it's just that now most people don't believe it to be irreconciliable with Darwin's theory.
Click to expand...
As long as one doesnt literally believe the adam and eve srory it is compatible
 
Roo

Roo

‎
#52,975
#52,975
Brush D. Teeth said:
These things are inconsequential for the 1%, what matters is having cheap labor and making greater profits.

Creation was never in doubt in Christianity, it's just that now most people don't believe it to be irreconciliable with Darwin's theory.
Click to expand...
Zenos7 said:
Eh, depends on the specifics. Creation and evolution arent necessarily mutually exclusive.

But sure, denying evolution is like believing in flat earth. . .
Click to expand...
A creationist is not someone who just believes god created things, a creationist is a person who believes in the genesis story literally
 
Etzel Andergast

Etzel Andergast

‎
#52,976
#52,976
If you believe that an intelligent designer created every single thing or creature in the universe without any evolution process then you are a creationist.
If you just believe god started the existence of the universe and not interfered in the flow of the physical process that got us where we are now then you aren't a creationist
 
Etzel Andergast

Etzel Andergast

‎
#52,980
#52,980
Logiko said:
I'm sorry I didn't understand your point (I was awoken with less than 3 hours of sleeps so I'm a bit lost). I think you are telling me that causes are not relevant with concepts, but I don't really understand the link witht the discussion.

So I will reply to that: In reality, causes do matter with concepts our at least the contextualisation of those concepts is important. When we talk about racism for example, it's just a word and it has many meaning in usual. But it is important to have a sociological approach when we talk about the creation of the word to understand that it is actually very recent.

> Which means, in that example, that racism as a system is actually quite new. Before that, while there were discrimination based on various principles (country, war lost, religion etc.) there was no such thing as a hierarachy of hoomans based on the color of the skin or ethnicities. Which can also help us to understand how to fight racism.

--

As for the link with the discussion, I'm sorry, but I think I'm too fuzzy too understand what you meant.

I will clarify this sentence of mine because it can be missinterpretated:

"Yes. Social construct are also part of what we call the "material conditions of our existence". Materiality in the literal sence is not necessarily the determined factor. "

By "material condition of our existence" I meant the material condition that have a power to influence us our descision making and overall life. They can be :

- Concretes: This is the case for our biology, for the environment with leave in, the people we met
- Semi abstract: This would be the case for the capital we own, that can exist in concrete and abstract form.
- Abstract: This is the case of a structure like an ideology for ex
- Systemic: This would be the case for capitalism or patriarchy.

(I'm sure someone define that much better than me, but I don't have the volition to do research this morning so it will have to do.)

In other words, the concept of materiality in "material conditions of our existence" here is a way to solidify the notion that we are influence by many things, abstract, systemic or concrete, but all of those have a real material and physical impact on us and will change us as we are structured and transformed by those conditions..

>> Which means that by changing all those things, we also change behaviors.

Let's take a simple ex: This forum

> In this thread: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/a-last-stand-a-new-system-to-promote-positivity.59457/

I propose the structural changes for more positivity to be developped on this forum. This idea is simple : I don't want to force anyone to adopt a more positive behavior BUT I wanted people to adopt this behavior by themselves in response to the changes in the system.

So while I demanded for the moderation to be a little bit more present and informed on important questions such as transphobia, in reality you will see that a lot of the propositions here were made to please us as users and to canalize the negativity toward a specific point.

For example, I proposed the creation of new tags like the "moderation choice". This would be a thread, pinned on top of others and chosen by the moderation.

As you can see here, the idea is not to force, but to create a path for the behavior to evolve toward a specific type of change (more positivity) rather than another (toxicity). The structure of the forum is the reason why people are so toxic (for the reasons evocked in the thread, and it's not a particularity only of this forum) so by making structural change, you could make people adopt naturally more positive behaviors.

>> This is an example of many that behavior can be changed through systems changes.

When we adapt this thinking to fight oppressive systems (such as patriarchy or capitalism) we understand that in reality, greed, hyper individualism, sexism or Egoism, are just the product of a conditionning related to those systems not necessarily individual behavior problems or a bad state of the human nature.

So to fight those system, we must fight to structurally change them.


It's completely on topic. I would even say, it's the hearth of the political discussion.
Click to expand...
Ok, but what did the first person who determined the concept of racism as something systematic? He make inferences with another concepts.

To grasp the concept of racism someone need to understand before the concept of system, ethnicities, population, injury, suffering, injustice, etc

I can grasp this concept only with this inferential process. The material causes aren't relevant you got it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top