https://phys.org/news/2023-10-scientist-decades-dont-free.html

Seems like the core of their argument is the subconscious decides too much for us before the conscious can act, so in a way, we do not actually decide what to say or do?

Ngl, it kinda fucked me up this morning thinking about it
No, the subconscious mind is the base for the conscious mind, but it still processes stuff based on out experiences etc. So you can subconsciously evade a ball flying towards you for example, you're not making a decision to duck. In that sense it's not "free will".

But more "important" decisions you take time on are made by the conscious mind ultimately. Like which school you'll go to, who you will date, what you'll wear.

I think he's making an argument based on our neurons being inherited so we act a certain way, but he's being dramatic to be heard. Every human relies on their experience and that creates free will.
 
Modern wokism is all about teaching people to be victims and putting the blame on others, removing all accountability
That's the vision of people who don't know what leftist fight is
Instead of telling people that they have control of their own lives and have the power to better themselves
And this meritocratic/individualistic "I want therefore I can" and "we can better the society by changing ourself first" liberalistic vision is EXACTLY what we are fighting with "wokism".

This vision is the reason why some people are still suffering from the impact of racism, why women are still struggling to have a voice and a place in society, why people are poor and others are absurdly rich etc. etc.

This vision, rather than praising progress, actually promotes the status co, and critics that can prevent any changes in the balances of powers and dominations.

This vision is the reason why you still don't understand why some post here, shouldn't be allowed in the first place.


It’s very funny you mention accountability and self control. I skimmed An article this morning about how scientifically, we don’t have free will and thus cannot be or should not be accountable for everything we do
OMG .. don't go too fast !!
People here are not even aknowledging the inexistence of notions like merits just yet... they are far from ready to accept the inexistence of free will.

Step by step mate... Ex. Its irrelevant to talk about communism to a conservatist, it will just scare them and make them hate you. We must do the same with materialism.


Ngl, it kinda fucked me up this morning thinking about it
I got into a short depression period the day I realized the inexistence of free will. If this forum taught me anything, its that people will be ready when they will be ready. Such information must be given slowly with context and with positivity.

Because if yes, free will is an illusion, it doesn't means that life is. I like to think of conscious life forms as thinking water droplets, we may not have control over our lifes in the macro sence, we are still part of a gigantic flow that will live millions of adventures and we are aware of it.


Most crime is done by the conscious mind since they have to plan a course of action after seeing an opportunity
Its easier for us to think that people are conscious of the crimes they commit. It maintains us in our humanity and in the thinking that "we would never do such things".. but the reality is that we are all capable of those things in certains and similar conditions.

We do not possess a mind that can magically override the reality of the universe. If someone kills the one I love in front of me, the only factors that will play into the choice of taking the life of the murderer or not, will be the result of ALL my experiences and educations of my past self, that won't be me and my will choosing the right choice because its the right choice.

Choices are determinated by our experiences, our memories, our culture, our situation, our physical states etc... but not by the magic of a will.

In the potential existence of such free will, a choice would be an act of creation of a system of thought from within our own will...
Sadly.. for such a free will to exist, we would need to be machines that can override the first thermodynamic law of the universe.

Energy cannot be created from nothing in the universe, therefore free will as we mostly know it, cannot exist.


No, the subconscious mind
Unconscious mind dictates 90% of actions, and conscious mind 10%.
Careful. Such concept as "unconscious" mind is non scientific.
The origin of the term comes from psychanalysis and Freud. Those theories are for the most part not relying on scientific research but dogmatism.
If it is true that there are non conscious behaviors (like riding a bike or driving your car), there is no evidences pointing toward the existence of an unconscious mind under our own mind.


This reads like he was into determinisms and tries to justify it by using science
The absence of free will doesn't necessarally means that we live in a deterministic universe. We could, but some theoritical model of cosmology and physics could open the door into a world of uncertainty..
 
Careful. Such concept as "unconscious" mind is non scientific.
The origin of the term comes from psychanalysis and Freud. Those theories are for the most part not relying on scientific research but dogmatism.
If it is true that there are non conscious behaviors (like riding a bike or driving your car), there is no evidences pointing toward the existence of an unconscious mind under our own mind.
Lmao you can see evidence of subconsciousness on an MRI :milaugh:
 
Lmao you can see evidence of subconsciousness on an MRI
It depends of what you are talking about when you talk about subconsciousness.
If you are talking about a state of consciousness that allows you to do things (breathe/walk/drive/talk) without thinking about it, then yes, this state of conscousness do exist.
But if you are talking about the concept of subconscious developped by Freud and promoted by psychanalist and bad psychologist, then no, its not scientific in any way.

What nonsense is he spewing again? I haven't read a post of his in months and just assume it's virtue, martyr bullshit.
Things you are not ready to accept.
 
It depends of what you are talking about when you talk about subconsciousness.
If you are talking about a state of consciousness that allows you to do things (breathe/walk/drive/talk) without thinking about it, then yes, this state of conscousness do exist.
But if you are talking about the concept of subconscious developped by Freud and promoted by psychanalist and bad psychologist, then no, its not scientific in any way.
You realise the only reason that was proven at all was because people theorized about it?

I'm not saying a lot of the psychoanalysts aren't empirical based, but observation and theory are just as much a science as everything else is. You prove a theory after you've made it, not the other way around.
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
Always gotta look out for the idiotic idealist who hide behind their positive message to sweep their actions and results under the rug. It's like the Just Stop Oil and Save the Planet morons who do nothing to disrupt the lives of everyday people who got nothing to do with the state of the planet.
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
Always gotta look out for the idiotic idealist who hide behind their positive message to sweep their actions and results under the rug. It's like the Just Stop Oil and Save the Planet morons who do nothing to disrupt the lives of everyday people who got nothing to do with the state of the planet.
Should we not stop the oil?
 
You realise the only reason that was proven at all was because people theorized about it?

I'm not saying a lot of the psychoanalysts aren't empirical based, but observation and theory are just as much a science as everything else is. You prove a theory after you've made it, not the other way around.
This is not a consensus that comes from me but actual psychologist, psychiatrist and researchers.
Psychanalysis is a load of BS, its dogma through and through. Its a pseudoscience that hurt thousands of people.

Religion is also the result of theories and observations, yet its not scientific. Science is about reproductible regularities that are measurable and refutable.


No, that would actually be racist and sexist and the best people suited or qualified should get the job
Still no.
Its just the principle of equity applied to the battle against discriminations.
Racism is a system of oppression

You still live in the belief that meritocracy exist. It doesn't.


the idiotic idealist
Who are you talking about here dear liberal propagandist ?
 
This is not a consensus that comes from me but actual psychologist, psychiatrist and researchers.
Psychanalysis is a load of BS, its dogma through and through. Its a pseudoscience that hurt thousands of people.

Religion is also the result of theories and observations, yet its not scientific. Science is about reproductible regularities that are measurable and refutable.
And it's measured by a simple MRI, so you have your proof :kayneshrug:
 
You realise the only reason that was proven at all was because people theorized about it?

I'm not saying a lot of the psychoanalysts aren't empirical based, but observation and theory are just as much a science as everything else is. You prove a theory after you've made it, not the other way around.
He seems to think that science is just based on empirical observation, when one of the basis of science its the postulational approach
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
Should we not stop the oil?
Not the point. The main form of protest with these dudes is to block traffic. By keeping cars on the road for longer, they are helping to increase carbon emissions which is something they apparently want to fight against.

Point is that people use positive messages to do dumb shit and move further away from their claimed goals.
 
Not the point. The main form of protest with these dudes is to block traffic. By keeping cars on the road for longer, they are helping to increase carbon emissions which is something they apparently want to fight against.

Point is that people use positive messages to do dumb shit and move further away from their claimed goals.
I'll believe them believing in their causes once they leave their mining-made houses, phones, cars and go live in the woods next to a fire.
 
And it's measured by a simple MRI, so you have your proof
Yes, its a sub state of consciousness that scientific name "unconsciousness".

This state of unconsciousness:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440575/

Its not the unconscious that was theorized by Freud and used in psychoanalysis.



Not the point. The main form of protest with these dudes is to block traffic. By keeping cars on the road for longer, they are helping to increase carbon emissions which is something they apparently want to fight against.
The goal is to make you notice them bro. And they are doing an amazing job at it as you are talking about them. Because when they do nothing, just as other liberals, you won't talk about people who are fighting against climate change, you will just ignore them.

So because of the inactivity of people like you, other people are obligated to make strong and sometimes annoying action to raise awareness. Any publicity is good publicity.

The problem here is not them, its liberals like you.

I'll believe them believing in their causes once they leave their mining-made houses, phones, cars and go live in the woods next to a fire.
The common fallacious liberal/apolitical rethoric of people who want to prevent the attacks on status co. As if people who have a phone can't use them to do more good or to regroup to create worldwide awareness..

 
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