Controversial General Political Discussion
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You are german? So you are talking about white color brazilians?
That's the thing that catches me I never understood that US shit of calling us latinos and not white. Like look at us dude there are white people just like you in here. Brazil is like the world country. You can find the most number of nationalities here, and I believe in US as well but we don't treat them so different like there.
The south of Brazil is very white. Southeast is like 50% of population. Northeast some states are 50% black/brown and others are kind of white as well. Similar to other states.
White people in Brazil is no majority of population but is the majority of minorites. I believe something like 30/40%. And no other ethinical group is bigger than white.
That's the thing that catches me I never understood that US shit of calling us latinos and not white. Like look at us dude there are white people just like you in here. Brazil is like the world country. You can find the most number of nationalities here, and I believe in US as well but we don't treat them so different like there.
The south of Brazil is very white. Southeast is like 50% of population. Northeast some states are 50% black/brown and others are kind of white as well. Similar to other states.
White people in Brazil is no majority of population but is the majority of minorites. I believe something like 30/40%. And no other ethinical group is bigger than white.
Thanks. Yeah, it happens so rarely that it always feels like the first time when someone manages to do it.
People here do not see that I love being proven wrong. There is no better feeling for someone who seek a complete global understanding
of the world.
Against capitalism, the amount of proof is just staggering. At this point, it can't be disproven by any means. But those little informations here and there can indeed have biases in them which makes them incorrect.
People here do not see that I love being proven wrong. There is no better feeling for someone who seek a complete global understanding
of the world.
Against capitalism, the amount of proof is just staggering. At this point, it can't be disproven by any means. But those little informations here and there can indeed have biases in them which makes them incorrect.
Not the same to me, and most people probably. It sucks to be proven wrong. It is hard to admit at first. People need time to process everything until accept their new reality.
This kinds of contradicts what you just said above. You are now saying that you won't change your mind about capitalism no matter how many proofs you claim to have are proved to be wrong instead of just increase your global understanding of the world
I don't know what constitutes illegal migrants in Brazil. Is not a topic like in the US. So I can't tell you for sure. I know that we have migrants here and sometimes we have problems with them. That's the most important point to me.
This kinds of contradicts what you just said above. You are now saying that you won't change your mind about capitalism no matter how many proofs you claim to have are proved to be wrong instead of just increase your global understanding of the world
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I don't know what constitutes illegal migrants in Brazil. Is not a topic like in the US. So I can't tell you for sure. I know that we have migrants here and sometimes we have problems with them. That's the most important point to me.
Maybe not crisis but we do have some problems every now and then. Not only Venezuelans but africans coming here too.
I will keep an eye open to it from now on but you may be right. Brazil is too friendly towards migration.
I have no idea specially considering your country. It is common to have crimes in the country side? Is there any activist group trying to steal lands from people?
I don't know what you mean by doing cutting here and there but I'd suggest gun for self protection since police takes too long to get to help you. Even at city it is advisable. Probably something like a glock should be enough unless you'd face large groups of people.
I will keep an eye open to it from now on but you may be right. Brazil is too friendly towards migration.
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I have no idea specially considering your country. It is common to have crimes in the country side? Is there any activist group trying to steal lands from people?
I don't know what you mean by doing cutting here and there but I'd suggest gun for self protection since police takes too long to get to help you. Even at city it is advisable. Probably something like a glock should be enough unless you'd face large groups of people.
Yeah I completely get that.
The following will be interesting if you want to understand how I function:
This is one of the reason I ask people to listen when I talk. I can't repeat this enough :
I come from conspiracy theories, ultra liberal and a confusionnist background.
The entire political spectra between who I am now and who I was 15 to 20 years ago is not even matched by one of the gap between people like me and you or me and Ravager. This means that I wasn't proved once, not twice, not ten times, not even a hundred of times. But close to a thousand! On every subject you can imagine. (I may be exagerating the number a bit).
Change has become a second nature to me. And what hated at first (the first time you need to oppose something you hold dear is HORRIBLE)... became something I'm loving now. I may be hesitating for a second or two, maybe even writing a sentence to explain to you why there is no reason why this should be true. But my instincts kicks in very fast when I here a potential contradictory information.
And the best thing with the wave of radicalization and deradicalization, is that I do not need people now to see that. (aside from small historical information I can't invent like this last one): I developped a form of gut feeling to sense where is the best contradictory information.
This is why I once recommended here that you guyz try to follow women you value on twitter, not just one, but at least half your following number. This simple trick will throw you into a world you may not be really aware of. I did that out of pure principle one day. I wanted to avoid biases so I just picked every women I knew I valued and followed them. And this was a much harder task that I thought. Turns out even I had trouble finding women I was interested in, not because I don't like them, but because my algorythm was pushing me to avoid them. Years later... I really can thanks my past self enough for doing that. The level of understanding I got just by listening more and just being in an environment where men are not the center of my attention, completely twister my belief system.
Try just that, after that, you can either expend your horizon with racialized people you value, activists, trans people.. and the more you will open the windows, the more you will see.
This gut feeling that pushed me to listen more is also what allows me to choose between the words of certain activists, or researchers, or politician. As long as I sense that a position is more ethical and that it contradicts my values or my basic level of understanding, I seek it with a smile.
Things like this :
Is child play for me. I don't even take the time to be frustrated. I understand that my knowledge is flawed and can have bug and I move on.
---
I'm not trying to brag. It looks like it. But what I'm trying to show, is that, being wrong is OKAY. And it's also okay, to be mad about being wrong. It's a natural response. But refusing to accept it is not. Especially when what we say can hurt people.
I would love to be wrong on capitalism, on identity issues, and so many other levels of domination and exploitations. But those are things that I'm leaving with day after day. We are not just right to counter you or Ravager, or Nameless or Gaimon on your stance on modernism or capitalism, or gender issues.. We are the one you have to listen to evolves because you are in this very special place where we are actually stuck together.
It's not about not wanting to change my mind. It's about not be able to do it. It's impossible to counter the evidences against capitalism now. There is too much of a big network of evidences. Some informations will be incorrect, yeah, it's possible, but not all of them. Not the reality we can observe. This is something that won't just disappear.
I would love to... but it's not possible.
My reality and experiences with capitalism won't just go away because someone tells me that capitalism is actually good. I was exploited, it was a fact. And in the future, I will fall victim of an eugenist and ableist system, this is also a fact that I can observe objectively.
It's just capitalism. It's not that complex in reality, it's just a system that grooms us into our own exploitation.
I would say respect and love, but ok
Lol I'm starting to overshare again. Rip me
The following will be interesting if you want to understand how I function:
This is one of the reason I ask people to listen when I talk. I can't repeat this enough :
I come from conspiracy theories, ultra liberal and a confusionnist background.
The entire political spectra between who I am now and who I was 15 to 20 years ago is not even matched by one of the gap between people like me and you or me and Ravager. This means that I wasn't proved once, not twice, not ten times, not even a hundred of times. But close to a thousand! On every subject you can imagine. (I may be exagerating the number a bit).
Change has become a second nature to me. And what hated at first (the first time you need to oppose something you hold dear is HORRIBLE)... became something I'm loving now. I may be hesitating for a second or two, maybe even writing a sentence to explain to you why there is no reason why this should be true. But my instincts kicks in very fast when I here a potential contradictory information.
And the best thing with the wave of radicalization and deradicalization, is that I do not need people now to see that. (aside from small historical information I can't invent like this last one): I developped a form of gut feeling to sense where is the best contradictory information.
This is why I once recommended here that you guyz try to follow women you value on twitter, not just one, but at least half your following number. This simple trick will throw you into a world you may not be really aware of. I did that out of pure principle one day. I wanted to avoid biases so I just picked every women I knew I valued and followed them. And this was a much harder task that I thought. Turns out even I had trouble finding women I was interested in, not because I don't like them, but because my algorythm was pushing me to avoid them. Years later... I really can thanks my past self enough for doing that. The level of understanding I got just by listening more and just being in an environment where men are not the center of my attention, completely twister my belief system.
Try just that, after that, you can either expend your horizon with racialized people you value, activists, trans people.. and the more you will open the windows, the more you will see.
This gut feeling that pushed me to listen more is also what allows me to choose between the words of certain activists, or researchers, or politician. As long as I sense that a position is more ethical and that it contradicts my values or my basic level of understanding, I seek it with a smile.
Things like this :
Is child play for me. I don't even take the time to be frustrated. I understand that my knowledge is flawed and can have bug and I move on.
---
I'm not trying to brag. It looks like it. But what I'm trying to show, is that, being wrong is OKAY. And it's also okay, to be mad about being wrong. It's a natural response. But refusing to accept it is not. Especially when what we say can hurt people.
I would love to be wrong on capitalism, on identity issues, and so many other levels of domination and exploitations. But those are things that I'm leaving with day after day. We are not just right to counter you or Ravager, or Nameless or Gaimon on your stance on modernism or capitalism, or gender issues.. We are the one you have to listen to evolves because you are in this very special place where we are actually stuck together.
It's not about not wanting to change my mind. It's about not be able to do it. It's impossible to counter the evidences against capitalism now. There is too much of a big network of evidences. Some informations will be incorrect, yeah, it's possible, but not all of them. Not the reality we can observe. This is something that won't just disappear.
I would love to... but it's not possible.
My reality and experiences with capitalism won't just go away because someone tells me that capitalism is actually good. I was exploited, it was a fact. And in the future, I will fall victim of an eugenist and ableist system, this is also a fact that I can observe objectively.
It's just capitalism. It's not that complex in reality, it's just a system that grooms us into our own exploitation.
I would say respect and love, but ok
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Lol I'm starting to overshare again. Rip me
I don't know. Ships. Boats. Not as slaves. I guess...
I don't know what makes an illegal immigrant in Brazil and can't understand your questions
Don't tell me
I hope you are old instead of comparing yourself to when you was a kid
Your gut feeling is not good and this is not rage bait.
This works for really knowing what the women bubble is talking about. Not necessarily to understand it. You switched from men bubble to women bubble. You are getting another point of view but still not the big picture. As I understand you get women's point of view and believe it is right no matter what. I remember you defending the METOO movement where woman could accuse men of raping them without needing to prove and everybody needs to believe in her.
I really don't need to do that. The bubble itself will filter the main issues and it will come out of the bubble while the small issues will keep inside it. Like I need to know about their safety, not about their hair getting a mess for taking a ride at bike.
There is no communism without state though. Is that what libertarian from the left means? It never truly made sense to me unless the people who wants to smoke weed.
Here you go again with your narcisism to believe you are better than everyone
And you even addressed that while you were talking about yourself
There is no impossible when it comes to science. That's why I always says you are not a science guy. Never was. And apparently will never be.
What it seems to me is that you don't understand capitalism and is blaming a false capitalism. I'm unaware of anywhere in the world to have a true capitalism system, free market. Where there is no governament putting their finger on it. Hell I'm not even sure if governament, as imposed taxation aka stealing from people, could exist in a true capitalism system because it would pretty much break the law of free market.
Fuck that. Pussies and titties are better. Or cock too if it is your thing. No problem with that you get the point.
I don't know what makes an illegal immigrant in Brazil and can't understand your questions
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Don't tell me
I hope you are old instead of comparing yourself to when you was a kid
Your gut feeling is not good and this is not rage bait.
This works for really knowing what the women bubble is talking about. Not necessarily to understand it. You switched from men bubble to women bubble. You are getting another point of view but still not the big picture. As I understand you get women's point of view and believe it is right no matter what. I remember you defending the METOO movement where woman could accuse men of raping them without needing to prove and everybody needs to believe in her.
I really don't need to do that. The bubble itself will filter the main issues and it will come out of the bubble while the small issues will keep inside it. Like I need to know about their safety, not about their hair getting a mess for taking a ride at bike.
There is no communism without state though. Is that what libertarian from the left means? It never truly made sense to me unless the people who wants to smoke weed.
Here you go again with your narcisism to believe you are better than everyone
And you even addressed that while you were talking about yourself
There is no impossible when it comes to science. That's why I always says you are not a science guy. Never was. And apparently will never be.
What it seems to me is that you don't understand capitalism and is blaming a false capitalism. I'm unaware of anywhere in the world to have a true capitalism system, free market. Where there is no governament putting their finger on it. Hell I'm not even sure if governament, as imposed taxation aka stealing from people, could exist in a true capitalism system because it would pretty much break the law of free market.
Fuck that. Pussies and titties are better. Or cock too if it is your thing. No problem with that you get the point.
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Don't worry, I'm old
We will see
It's not about getting the big picture on first try my guy.
It's about learning to open the window. Extending your environement to people you are not familiar to interact with or people who don't see the same thing you do.
I still support the metoo movement. I believe women without the need of proof and I think we should all do that. This concept is in fact quite easy to understand:
1. The number are overhelming : the probabilities of false accusations are very low.
2. Women are putting themselves in actual physical danger by accusing a man. You might only see the accusation, but you are not aware of the threat they receive and the ignorance by the police.
3. We don't need proof to judge a situation. Little exemple:
> If your very good woman friend comes back from a party where she was with one random guy and another friend of yours. SHe has blood on her hand and her skull she tells you that the random man tried to attack her and your friend.
AND
> If your other woman friend comes to you and corroborate the testimony of your previous friend...
You will NOT WAIT to find the guy back and kick his ass or call the guy out also. At least if you are a good friend.
When a woman is calling out another, she risk much more than she gains. She risk shame, harrassment, threats, violence. So we don't have to wait for the police or justice to judge at least on an ethical basis the man. Simply because trusting women is the best way to protect them from new potential violences.
Your bubble is already filtering information. I'm just proposing that you expand it, that's all. You don't need to scratch your previous one.
Your last sentence alone is a proof for me that you need that, like right NOW.
It depends. As explain herrera, the state of communism (or anarchist society for anarchist) can come from the state Up to Down OR from the radical transformation of structural institution and exploitation systems with Anarchist > From the bottom up.
Communism is the final society that we all want to arrive too and socialism is the state of transition.
Anarchist and communist are disagreeing on the notion of authority. Anarchism mostly think a state under the dictature of the proletaria can only reproduce the structural flaws of capitalism (imperialism, authoritarism, nationalism, repression etc), while Communist think that the anarchist are too idealist and do not understand that an armed revolution must be forced to make a real change.
I tend to stand in between. I'm still in a state of reflexion on these notions.
Never better
Just more politicized in term of ethical awereness about the domination of the world. And I'm not alone, I'm including with me, Blax, Mathias, Toby, Jew and other leftists here.
You are talking to a fan of science fiction who think we will one day be able to live forever inside computer worlds with a complete understanding of the universe and more.
You have no idea how much I believe in our scientific potential. I will surprise you at every turn on this, and points you toward a vision of the universe so strange and extraordinary that you call me a delusionnal dreamer on the very first sentence.
What you described to me when I asked you about the future of your system (I'm still waiting a reply btw) is something that I was imagining when I was 19 while crafting my worlds. But to make things realistic, I had to understand how the world actually works. And believing blindly in the potential of technology and unlimited ressources is not just naive, it's dangerous.
Ressources are not illimited at the moment. And there are very little chances they will ever be. This means that no matter how hard you try, as long as someone has the means to exploit them and create a monopoly, there will be rich, and poor people.
It could change, but no technological change will transform the concept of capitalistic appropriation of ressources and the +value of workers.
This is a reality that is hard to accept, but it is a reality that we NEED to accept. You wanna know what were the first things I challenged in my mind after my conspiracy period ?
My world, my creation. So much that it froze me in place and I never really recovered from the derealizations. Your system was mine at the time, your faith in technology was MY faith. I wanted it to be real, I wanted to believe that technologies would somehow make up for the flaws of our world...
.. but I didn't understand the actual flaws of our world to begin with. I didn't even understand my own biases. I had absolutely no conscience of the power relationships created by many systems of domination. I only had one thing in mind for multiple years:
"Technology will save the world"
If I'm taking the time to tell you that with a big text is because I want you to understand this state of mind. I don't want to completely strip this vision your have, In a way, it's a hopefull vision, a liberating one. But you are missing pieces. You created a tower without the pillars.
Progress without ethics is chaos.
Do not give up your vision of the world, but learn about its flaws, why I'm constantly talking about the exploitations of ressources by rich people and domination relationships. Understand the problems with the concept of complete freedom, understand how we are the results of societies and our material conditions of existence and you will be able to transform your world into a story.
Something you no longer admire, but something you will use as a tool to move on, criticize your past self, something that will make your understanding of the world 10 times easier... well.. That's if you like stories.
You can do that in music, paintings, videogame, writings....
I'm not trying to dismiss everything that you believe in, just to give you the tool to understand why I'm constantly headbutting against people who think we must push capitalism further..
It's up to you to listen to me or not.
We will see
It's not about getting the big picture on first try my guy.
It's about learning to open the window. Extending your environement to people you are not familiar to interact with or people who don't see the same thing you do.
I still support the metoo movement. I believe women without the need of proof and I think we should all do that. This concept is in fact quite easy to understand:
1. The number are overhelming : the probabilities of false accusations are very low.
2. Women are putting themselves in actual physical danger by accusing a man. You might only see the accusation, but you are not aware of the threat they receive and the ignorance by the police.
3. We don't need proof to judge a situation. Little exemple:
> If your very good woman friend comes back from a party where she was with one random guy and another friend of yours. SHe has blood on her hand and her skull she tells you that the random man tried to attack her and your friend.
AND
> If your other woman friend comes to you and corroborate the testimony of your previous friend...
You will NOT WAIT to find the guy back and kick his ass or call the guy out also. At least if you are a good friend.
When a woman is calling out another, she risk much more than she gains. She risk shame, harrassment, threats, violence. So we don't have to wait for the police or justice to judge at least on an ethical basis the man. Simply because trusting women is the best way to protect them from new potential violences.
Your bubble is already filtering information. I'm just proposing that you expand it, that's all. You don't need to scratch your previous one.
Your last sentence alone is a proof for me that you need that, like right NOW.
It depends. As explain herrera, the state of communism (or anarchist society for anarchist) can come from the state Up to Down OR from the radical transformation of structural institution and exploitation systems with Anarchist > From the bottom up.
Communism is the final society that we all want to arrive too and socialism is the state of transition.
Anarchist and communist are disagreeing on the notion of authority. Anarchism mostly think a state under the dictature of the proletaria can only reproduce the structural flaws of capitalism (imperialism, authoritarism, nationalism, repression etc), while Communist think that the anarchist are too idealist and do not understand that an armed revolution must be forced to make a real change.
I tend to stand in between. I'm still in a state of reflexion on these notions.
Here you go again with your narcisism to believe you are better than everyone
And you even addressed that while you were talking about yourself
And you even addressed that while you were talking about yourself
Just more politicized in term of ethical awereness about the domination of the world. And I'm not alone, I'm including with me, Blax, Mathias, Toby, Jew and other leftists here.
You are talking to a fan of science fiction who think we will one day be able to live forever inside computer worlds with a complete understanding of the universe and more.
You have no idea how much I believe in our scientific potential. I will surprise you at every turn on this, and points you toward a vision of the universe so strange and extraordinary that you call me a delusionnal dreamer on the very first sentence.
What you described to me when I asked you about the future of your system (I'm still waiting a reply btw) is something that I was imagining when I was 19 while crafting my worlds. But to make things realistic, I had to understand how the world actually works. And believing blindly in the potential of technology and unlimited ressources is not just naive, it's dangerous.
Ressources are not illimited at the moment. And there are very little chances they will ever be. This means that no matter how hard you try, as long as someone has the means to exploit them and create a monopoly, there will be rich, and poor people.
It could change, but no technological change will transform the concept of capitalistic appropriation of ressources and the +value of workers.
This is a reality that is hard to accept, but it is a reality that we NEED to accept. You wanna know what were the first things I challenged in my mind after my conspiracy period ?
My world, my creation. So much that it froze me in place and I never really recovered from the derealizations. Your system was mine at the time, your faith in technology was MY faith. I wanted it to be real, I wanted to believe that technologies would somehow make up for the flaws of our world...
.. but I didn't understand the actual flaws of our world to begin with. I didn't even understand my own biases. I had absolutely no conscience of the power relationships created by many systems of domination. I only had one thing in mind for multiple years:
"Technology will save the world"
If I'm taking the time to tell you that with a big text is because I want you to understand this state of mind. I don't want to completely strip this vision your have, In a way, it's a hopefull vision, a liberating one. But you are missing pieces. You created a tower without the pillars.
Progress without ethics is chaos.
Do not give up your vision of the world, but learn about its flaws, why I'm constantly talking about the exploitations of ressources by rich people and domination relationships. Understand the problems with the concept of complete freedom, understand how we are the results of societies and our material conditions of existence and you will be able to transform your world into a story.
Something you no longer admire, but something you will use as a tool to move on, criticize your past self, something that will make your understanding of the world 10 times easier... well.. That's if you like stories.
You can do that in music, paintings, videogame, writings....
I'm not trying to dismiss everything that you believe in, just to give you the tool to understand why I'm constantly headbutting against people who think we must push capitalism further..
It's up to you to listen to me or not.
was thinking about something.
Fascism is basically the midway between neoliberal capitalism and true socialism/communism.
In that fascism is anti capitalist, but only in a limited sense.
Ultimately the fascist economy is one that exists primarily to serve the in-group at the expense of the out-group. Capitalism can be part of this, but only so far as it benefits the in-group. When capitalism can benefit the out-group, fascists will vocally oppose it.
ex. Nazi germany was against private property… but only when the business owners were Jewish.
this can be seen in modern American fascism as well.
MAGAts will support free market capitalism up until immigrants benefit from it. Then the evil immigrant is stealing our jobs and we need to run them out of town. This is especially true with anti-Indian racism, because Indian immigrants tend to work high paying jobs. Hence you will see some people on the right argue that the Indian immigrant, and not the Latino, is the biggest threat, as they are stealing the most prized jobs. Like the original Nazis, the far right is also resentful of Jewish success, but it’s not the focus in more moderate circles as alleged antisemitism makes for a good justification to go after left wingers.
Fascism is basically the midway between neoliberal capitalism and true socialism/communism.
In that fascism is anti capitalist, but only in a limited sense.
Ultimately the fascist economy is one that exists primarily to serve the in-group at the expense of the out-group. Capitalism can be part of this, but only so far as it benefits the in-group. When capitalism can benefit the out-group, fascists will vocally oppose it.
ex. Nazi germany was against private property… but only when the business owners were Jewish.
this can be seen in modern American fascism as well.
MAGAts will support free market capitalism up until immigrants benefit from it. Then the evil immigrant is stealing our jobs and we need to run them out of town. This is especially true with anti-Indian racism, because Indian immigrants tend to work high paying jobs. Hence you will see some people on the right argue that the Indian immigrant, and not the Latino, is the biggest threat, as they are stealing the most prized jobs. Like the original Nazis, the far right is also resentful of Jewish success, but it’s not the focus in more moderate circles as alleged antisemitism makes for a good justification to go after left wingers.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/antisemitism-and-henry-fords-international-jew
Ford was also a nazi
Fascism is opposed to socialism, socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, while fascism gives extreme power to corporations
Ford was also a nazi
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Fascism is opposed to socialism, socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, while fascism gives extreme power to corporations
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