Controversial General Political Discussion

[HerreraIsBack]

By ship? Across the Atlantic??

I don't know. Ships. Boats. Not as slaves. I guess...

At what point do illegal immigrants become legal? How many guns do they need? Or will some fire work too?

I don't know what makes an illegal immigrant in Brazil and can't understand your questions
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a confusionnist background.

Don't tell me

The entire political spectra between who I am now and who I was 15 to 20 years ago

I hope you are old instead of comparing yourself to when you was a kid

I developped a form of gut feeling to sense where is the best contradictory information.

Your gut feeling is not good and this is not rage bait.

This is why I once recommended here that you guyz try to follow women you value on twitter, not just one, but at least half your following number. This simple trick will throw you into a world you may not be really aware of. I did that out of pure principle one day. I wanted to avoid biases so I just picked every women I knew I valued and followed them. And this was a much harder task that I thought. Turns out even I had trouble finding women I was interested in, not because I don't like them, but because my algorythm was pushing me to avoid them. Years later... I really can thanks my past self enough for doing that. The level of understanding I got just by listening more and just being in an environment where men are not the center of my attention, completely twister my belief system.

This works for really knowing what the women bubble is talking about. Not necessarily to understand it. You switched from men bubble to women bubble. You are getting another point of view but still not the big picture. As I understand you get women's point of view and believe it is right no matter what. I remember you defending the METOO movement where woman could accuse men of raping them without needing to prove and everybody needs to believe in her.

Try just that, after that, you can either expend your horizon with racialized people you value, activists, trans people.. and the more you will open the windows, the more you will see.

I really don't need to do that. The bubble itself will filter the main issues and it will come out of the bubble while the small issues will keep inside it. Like I need to know about their safety, not about their hair getting a mess for taking a ride at bike.

Is child play for me. I don't even take the time to be frustrated. I understand that my knowledge is flawed and can have bug and I move on.

There is no communism without state though. Is that what libertarian from the left means? It never truly made sense to me unless the people who wants to smoke weed.

We are the one you have to listen to evolves because you are in this very special place where we are actually stuck together.

Here you go again with your narcisism to believe you are better than everyone



And you even addressed that while you were talking about yourself

It's not about not wanting to change my mind. It's about not be able to do it. It's impossible to counter the evidences against capitalism now. There is too much of a big network of evidences. Some informations will be incorrect, yeah, it's possible, but not all of them. Not the reality we can observe. This is something that won't just disappear.

I would love to... but it's not possible.

My reality and experiences with capitalism won't just go away because someone tells me that capitalism is actually good. I was exploited, it was a fact. And in the future, I will fall victim of an eugenist and ableist system, this is also a fact that I can observe objectively.

It's just capitalism. It's not that complex in reality, it's just a system that grooms us into our own exploitation.

There is no impossible when it comes to science. That's why I always says you are not a science guy. Never was. And apparently will never be.

What it seems to me is that you don't understand capitalism and is blaming a false capitalism. I'm unaware of anywhere in the world to have a true capitalism system, free market. Where there is no governament putting their finger on it. Hell I'm not even sure if governament, as imposed taxation aka stealing from people, could exist in a true capitalism system because it would pretty much break the law of free market.

I would say respect and love, but ok

Fuck that. Pussies and titties are better. Or cock too if it is your thing. No problem with that you get the point.

 

[Logiko]

I hope you are old instead of comparing yourself to when you was a kid

Don't worry, I'm old

Your gut feeling is not good and this is not rage bait.

We will see

This works for really knowing what the women bubble is talking about. Not necessarily to understand it. You switched from men bubble to women bubble. You are getting another point of view but still not the big picture. As I understand you get women's point of view and believe it is right no matter what. I remember you defending the METOO movement where woman could accuse men of raping them without needing to prove and everybody needs to believe in her.

It's not about getting the big picture on first try my guy.

It's about learning to open the window. Extending your environement to people you are not familiar to interact with or people who don't see the same thing you do.

I still support the metoo movement. I believe women without the need of proof and I think we should all do that. This concept is in fact quite easy to understand:

1. The number are overhelming : the probabilities of false accusations are very low.
2. Women are putting themselves in actual physical danger by accusing a man. You might only see the accusation, but you are not aware of the threat they receive and the ignorance by the police.
3. We don't need proof to judge a situation. Little exemple:

> If your very good woman friend comes back from a party where she was with one random guy and another friend of yours. SHe has blood on her hand and her skull she tells you that the random man tried to attack her and your friend.
AND
> If your other woman friend comes to you and corroborate the testimony of your previous friend...

You will NOT WAIT to find the guy back and kick his ass or call the guy out also. At least if you are a good friend.

When a woman is calling out another, she risk much more than she gains. She risk shame, harrassment, threats, violence. So we don't have to wait for the police or justice to judge at least on an ethical basis the man. Simply because trusting women is the best way to protect them from new potential violences.

I really don't need to do that. The bubble itself will filter the main issues and it will come out of the bubble while the small issues will keep inside it. Like I need to know about their safety, not about their hair getting a mess for taking a ride at bike.

Your bubble is already filtering information. I'm just proposing that you expand it, that's all. You don't need to scratch your previous one.

Your last sentence alone is a proof for me that you need that, like right NOW.

There is no communism without state though. Is that what libertarian from the left means? It never truly made sense to me unless the people who wants to smoke weed.

It depends. As explain herrera, the state of communism (or anarchist society for anarchist) can come from the state Up to Down OR from the radical transformation of structural institution and exploitation systems with Anarchist > From the bottom up.

Communism is the final society that we all want to arrive too and socialism is the state of transition.

Anarchist and communist are disagreeing on the notion of authority. Anarchism mostly think a state under the dictature of the proletaria can only reproduce the structural flaws of capitalism (imperialism, authoritarism, nationalism, repression etc), while Communist think that the anarchist are too idealist and do not understand that an armed revolution must be forced to make a real change.

I tend to stand in between. I'm still in a state of reflexion on these notions.

Here you go again with your narcisism to believe you are better than everyone



And you even addressed that while you were talking about yourself

Never better

Just more politicized in term of ethical awereness about the domination of the world. And I'm not alone, I'm including with me, Blax, Mathias, Toby, Jew and other leftists here.

There is no impossible when it comes to science. That's why I always says you are not a science guy. Never was. And apparently will never be.

You are talking to a fan of science fiction who think we will one day be able to live forever inside computer worlds with a complete understanding of the universe and more.

You have no idea how much I believe in our scientific potential. I will surprise you at every turn on this, and points you toward a vision of the universe so strange and extraordinary that you call me a delusionnal dreamer on the very first sentence.

What you described to me when I asked you about the future of your system (I'm still waiting a reply btw) is something that I was imagining when I was 19 while crafting my worlds. But to make things realistic, I had to understand how the world actually works. And believing blindly in the potential of technology and unlimited ressources is not just naive, it's dangerous.

Ressources are not illimited at the moment. And there are very little chances they will ever be. This means that no matter how hard you try, as long as someone has the means to exploit them and create a monopoly, there will be rich, and poor people.

It could change, but no technological change will transform the concept of capitalistic appropriation of ressources and the +value of workers.

This is a reality that is hard to accept, but it is a reality that we NEED to accept. You wanna know what were the first things I challenged in my mind after my conspiracy period ?

My world, my creation. So much that it froze me in place and I never really recovered from the derealizations. Your system was mine at the time, your faith in technology was MY faith. I wanted it to be real, I wanted to believe that technologies would somehow make up for the flaws of our world...

.. but I didn't understand the actual flaws of our world to begin with. I didn't even understand my own biases. I had absolutely no conscience of the power relationships created by many systems of domination. I only had one thing in mind for multiple years:

"Technology will save the world"

If I'm taking the time to tell you that with a big text is because I want you to understand this state of mind. I don't want to completely strip this vision your have, In a way, it's a hopefull vision, a liberating one. But you are missing pieces. You created a tower without the pillars.

Progress without ethics is chaos.

Do not give up your vision of the world, but learn about its flaws, why I'm constantly talking about the exploitations of ressources by rich people and domination relationships. Understand the problems with the concept of complete freedom, understand how we are the results of societies and our material conditions of existence and you will be able to transform your world into a story.

Something you no longer admire, but something you will use as a tool to move on, criticize your past self, something that will make your understanding of the world 10 times easier... well.. That's if you like stories.

You can do that in music, paintings, videogame, writings....

I'm not trying to dismiss everything that you believe in, just to give you the tool to understand why I'm constantly headbutting against people who think we must push capitalism further..

It's up to you to listen to me or not.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

was thinking about something.

Fascism is basically the midway between neoliberal capitalism and true socialism/communism.

In that fascism is anti capitalist, but only in a limited sense.

Ultimately the fascist economy is one that exists primarily to serve the in-group at the expense of the out-group. Capitalism can be part of this, but only so far as it benefits the in-group. When capitalism can benefit the out-group, fascists will vocally oppose it.

ex. Nazi germany was against private property… but only when the business owners were Jewish.

this can be seen in modern American fascism as well.

MAGAts will support free market capitalism up until immigrants benefit from it. Then the evil immigrant is stealing our jobs and we need to run them out of town. This is especially true with anti-Indian racism, because Indian immigrants tend to work high paying jobs. Hence you will see some people on the right argue that the Indian immigrant, and not the Latino, is the biggest threat, as they are stealing the most prized jobs. Like the original Nazis, the far right is also resentful of Jewish success, but it’s not the focus in more moderate circles as alleged antisemitism makes for a good justification to go after left wingers.

 

[Blax Blah]

Ford wanted to give the surplus to his employees indeed. He was sued by his shareholders and created a precendeny that the only purpose of a company is to increase the value of the shares, not to give more to employees.
You should understand the examples you write before you post them, do you even know how to read?
You literally posted as an example a WRONG EXAMPLE.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/antisemitism-and-henry-fords-international-jew

Ford was also a nazi
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was thinking about something.

Fascism is basically the midway between neoliberal capitalism and true socialism/communism.

In that fascism is anti capitalist, but only in a limited sense.

Ultimately the fascist economy is one that exists primarily to serve the in-group at the expense of the out-group. Capitalism can be part of this, but only so far as it benefits the in-group. When capitalism can benefit the out-group, fascists will vocally oppose it.

ex. Nazi germany was against private property… but only when the business owners were Jewish.

this can be seen in modern American fascism as well.

MAGAts will support free market capitalism up until immigrants benefit from it. Then the evil immigrant is stealing our jobs and we need to run them out of town. This is especially true with anti-Indian racism, because Indian immigrants tend to work high paying jobs. Hence you will see some people on the right argue that the Indian immigrant, and not the Latino, is the biggest threat, as they are stealing the most prized jobs. Like the original Nazis, the far right is also resentful of Jewish success, but it’s not the focus in more moderate circles as alleged antisemitism makes for a good justification to go after left wingers.

Fascism is opposed to socialism, socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, while fascism gives extreme power to corporations

 

[Midnight Delight]

Fascism is in a very technical way Centrism yes
Centrist like Merkel and Third Wayers get very insecure when it's pointed out that their rhetorics is similar to Early Fascists

 

[Monkey D Theories]

while fascism gives extreme power to corporations

To a point

corporate rights are still limited more than in free markets, as the corporation is ultimately beholden to the national ambition.

Companies want more than anything open access to an international marketplace of labor. Modern fascists strongly object to immigration and outsourcing.
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The nazis backed some businesses. But if you were Jewish, your business was destroyed and your property was stolen.

Capitalism respects property rights, hence while the Nazis weren’t socialist, they definitely weren’t pure capitalists either imo.
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Fascism is in a very technical way Centrism yes
Centrist like Merkel and Third Wayers get very insecure when it's pointed out that their rhetorics is similar to Early Fascists

Ironically the “third position” is a term used to describe certain post WW2 fascist ideas

 

[NikaInParis]

I'm glad they got this animal off the street
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-man-arrested-palestine-action-protest-police

 

[Ravagerblade]

I'm glad they got this animal off the street
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-man-arrested-palestine-action-protest-police

That looks like British Police. That's a whole nother wheelhouse/Monster. Skarmer's thugs etc.

 

[Midnight Delight]

what’s going on?

Our nickname is "the Sons of the Gnostics"

 

[Blax Blah]

 

[Ravagerblade]

I want everyone to be more well off. Your Conflating Maga to be one with all Millionaires/Billionaires.
I don't see any bitching about the Leftist Billionaries/Millionaries. *Bernie as well.

 

[Midnight Delight]

Your Conflating Maga to be one with all Millionaires/Billionaires.

Most are anti Union WageCucks tbh , the Alt Righters are a huge minority

 

[Ravagerblade]

Most are anti Union WageCucks tbh , the Alt Righters are a huge minority

It's a wide ish umbrella.

 

[Blax Blah]

I want everyone to be more well off. Your Conflating Maga to be one with all Millionaires/Billionaires.
I don't see any bitching about the Leftist Billionaries/Millionaries. *Bernie as well.

Maga promotes the class interest of the capitalist class, there are no billionares or millionares in a socialist mode of production

I don't support any billionares, if Bernie won it would be better, but it being better is not the same as it being good

In my head I don't make a distinction between left or right rich people

 

[Mathias]

Why do you think you can judge who deserves what? If they did honest work, then they earned every cent they own. Soccer players earn more than teachers because soccer is more fun than education, and people pay more for it. It is as simple as that. You probably have a couple of valuables in your house that you haven't touched and are collecting dust in a forgotten corner of your house. That doesn't mean people are entitled to your shit. You are the one confused, buddy. That is not how the world works ever. The left wants re-distributtion of wealth. That is theft in my book. So, yes, envy is the appropriate word for this.

Re-distribution is like stealing from the thief.

I'm judging who deserves by using this simple logic : it's too much money. And no billionaires don't make "honest work" lmao. Imagine if their adds was telling the truth about what they sell.

I don't think that teachers should be millionaires or richer than what they are.
Despite that, they're probably more valuable to society than football.

Football players are rich because of business. Not because they're entertaining. Because they sell.
Entertainment is fun but doesn't deserve to be thousands of times richer than the middle-class.
Because it's so much money that they don't know what to do with it.

I didn't say the world was logical or followed the right virtues either.
The world isn't just there looking at you buddy.

Anyway there is a documentary that was just released. What do you think about the religious among the commies ?

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was thinking about something.

Fascism is basically the midway between neoliberal capitalism and true socialism/communism.

How could you even come up with this ?

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Comedy gold right here 😂😂😂😂😂

At some point, workers will have to choose between having rights or having jobs

No profit, no business. No business, no work. I'm going to flip this to you: Are you in favor of unemployment?

Problem is that you guys see people making a tons of money while others have nothing as a problem. It isn't. They are not stealing. Some people are just hyper productive, while others are useless. It is a sad reality.

People are not equal. Poverty will always exist because some people just don't have the tools to thrive

An easy way to become a billionaire is to invent some groundbreaking shit and profit from royalties.

Unless you are a highly skilled laborer that took years to master something that very few people in the world can do, you provide 0 extra value.

In a real free market, you don't need to be a slave.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Our nickname is "the Sons of the Gnostics"

What?

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

In spite of how most people can recognize that billionaires are a problem, they still would rather blame immigrants for their current economic situation instead of the people who actually determine if they're able to get a fair wage and the basic needs.


The billionaires have successfully weaponized xenophobia and racism against the masses.

It's because of cowardice

 

[Monkey D Theories]

How could you even come up with this ?

if you consider neoliberalism as one end of the spectrum

And communism/socialism as the other end of the spectrum

Fascism is in between. As fascism maintains some elements of capitalism while opposing others. Whereas socialism and communism want to abolish capitalism altogether.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

How could you even come up with this

Because he's a low effort troll

Gen Z males are very easily influenced because a lot of them are raised on the internet and keep stumbling upon right wing nonsense without anyone to tell them that shit is stupid. Look at Andrew Tate and his cronies for example.

It's all part of the plan.
Parents are getting their time stolen so they can't raise their children in order to destabilize the family union and social fabric.
When those conservatives complain about danger against the family they're actually right in identifying the problem but are then blaming boogeymen like the 'woke agenda' and trans people.