Controversial General Political Discussion
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- Tags #freepalestine are you having fun al? are you having van al? dei has never hurt anyone you jackass dei must go gaolang > your fav hi rej hi rejj hi rejjj is not paying tax sexist is van having fun al? life goal sister harem real madrid reloaded is innocent tax is the best thing ever happened to us trans rights = human rights trans women are not interested in any of you watch for haters weebs discussing politics lmao worst thread ever
Hit them where they're vulnerable: money. Their power comes from money letting them force others to do what they want, just so those people can survive. It's completely legal, to not give these jackoffs money.
The North Atlantic Slave Trade was ended by the British Commonwealth spitting in the face of the nobility and boycotting goods. 400,000 braves souls boycotted, and made history.
They don't care about kids. The rich people propping up the government, need money, so they can boss others around live slaves. No money? No debt slavery.
Rip these freaks bank accounts apart legally.
Here is what you said:
>>>
Now...
> To arrive to a communist society, we need to get rid of capitalism to arrive to a classless and stateless society.
So...
If you are ok with communism and anti-capitalist but cool with meritocracy.... you are living with a MAJOR contradiction that influences all your choices in life and your entire vision of the world.
And to that I answer:
Think beyond.
>>>
Now...
> To arrive to a communist society, we need to get rid of capitalism to arrive to a classless and stateless society.
> To arrive to this type of society, we must push for the collective ownership of the means of production.
> To manage that we must destroy at the very least three major idea that keeps the entire working class and pretty much the entire world from wanting to destroy capitalism in the first place:
- The idea that a stateless and classless society where the means of productions are shared... is bad.
- The idea that capitalism is working
- The idea of that productive people are more valuable than unproductive one and that rich people deserve their wealth and worked for it.
This last point means basically that we CAN'T get rid completely of capitalism if we do not understand that Meritocracy is a major problem, a complete myth created to justify the horrors of capitalism and a set of beliefs that enter in the equations of multiple systems of domination. (For ex, I've been called lazy here because of my handicap and my situation. Which was a clear symptom of what meritocracy can create in symbiosis with the system of domination that is ableism)So...
If you are ok with communism and anti-capitalist but cool with meritocracy.... you are living with a MAJOR contradiction that influences all your choices in life and your entire vision of the world.
And to that I answer:
Think beyond.
Here is what you said:
>>>
Now...
> To arrive to a communist society, we need to get rid of capitalism to arrive to a classless and stateless society.
So...
If you are ok with communism and anti-capitalist but cool with meritocracy.... you are living with a MAJOR contradiction that influences all your choices in life and your entire vision of the world.
And to that I answer:
Think beyond.
>>>
Now...
> To arrive to a communist society, we need to get rid of capitalism to arrive to a classless and stateless society.
> To arrive to this type of society, we must push for the collective ownership of the means of production.
> To manage that we must destroy at the very least three major idea that keeps the entire working class and pretty much the entire world from wanting to destroy capitalism in the first place:
- The idea that a stateless and classless society where the means of productions are shared... is bad.
- The idea that capitalism is working
- The idea of that productive people are more valuable than unproductive one and that rich people deserve their wealth and worked for it.
This last point means basically that we CAN'T get rid completely of capitalism if we do not understand that Meritocracy is a major problem, a complete myth created to justify the horrors of capitalism and a set of beliefs that enter in the equations of multiple systems of domination. (For ex, I've been called lazy here because of my handicap and my situation. Which was a clear symptom of what meritocracy can create in symbiosis with the system of domination that is ableism)So...
If you are ok with communism and anti-capitalist but cool with meritocracy.... you are living with a MAJOR contradiction that influences all your choices in life and your entire vision of the world.
And to that I answer:
Think beyond.
which is funny because I didn't even remember what meritocracy is I had to look it up before I formed an opinion on it
I was this..
.. close to think that there was going to be an actual self-questionning here.
But no... My hope was crushed once again. as even you (a simple confused centrist) are completely glued to your belief system and vision of the world going so far as explaining to me a concept I've studied and been working around for years after reading a definition in a dictionnary 10 minutes ago
This is what I mean by targetting people's biases. And here, Monster proves just how difficult it is to even become aware of them..
What a shame
.. close to think that there was going to be an actual self-questionning here.
But no... My hope was crushed once again. as even you (a simple confused centrist) are completely glued to your belief system and vision of the world going so far as explaining to me a concept I've studied and been working around for years after reading a definition in a dictionnary 10 minutes ago
This is what I mean by targetting people's biases. And here, Monster proves just how difficult it is to even become aware of them..
What a shame
I was this..
.. close to think that there was going to be an actual self-questionning here.
But no... My hope was crushed once again. as even you (a simple confused centrist) are completely glued to your belief system and vision of the world going so far as explaining to me a concept I've studied and been working around for years after reading a definition in a dictionnary 10 minutes ago
This is what I mean by targetting people's biases. And here, Monster proves just how difficult it is to even become aware of them..
What a shame
.. close to think that there was going to be an actual self-questionning here.
But no... My hope was crushed once again. as even you (a simple confused centrist) are completely glued to your belief system and vision of the world going so far as explaining to me a concept I've studied and been working around for years after reading a definition in a dictionnary 10 minutes ago
This is what I mean by targetting people's biases. And here, Monster proves just how difficult it is to even become aware of them..
What a shame
I was this..
.. close to think that there was going to be an actual self-questionning here.
But no... My hope was crushed once again. as even you (a simple confused centrist) are completely glued to your belief system and vision of the world going so far as explaining to me a concept I've studied and been working around for years after reading a definition in a dictionnary 10 minutes ago
This is what I mean by targetting people's biases. And here, Monster proves just how difficult it is to even become aware of them..
What a shame
.. close to think that there was going to be an actual self-questionning here.
But no... My hope was crushed once again. as even you (a simple confused centrist) are completely glued to your belief system and vision of the world going so far as explaining to me a concept I've studied and been working around for years after reading a definition in a dictionnary 10 minutes ago
This is what I mean by targetting people's biases. And here, Monster proves just how difficult it is to even become aware of them..
What a shame
I love how people think here that I'm rigidly stuck in a belief simply because I do not want to stop questionning their rethoric.. It's very interesting socially speaking. But being open to change does not necessarily mean starting to agree with everyone or even aknowledging the legitimacy of their words.
My conviction is just an illusion that makes you think that I'm a rock in my belief system, when in reality, I've changed my vision and values a LOT since I came here.
Yup, it's not about winning, it't about politicizing. Something that is not a competition, but a necessity under the rise of fascism.
I do let people shape my beliefs.
ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
> In fact, no late that yersterday, I listened to a 16yo activist. This allowed me to understand and prevent myself from developing a major bias toward the fights of younger politicized people.
> Just a mear week ago - as I explained earlier - I listened to an activist explaining how anti-asian racism and specifically the cases of North Korea and China were overused under the colonial ombrellas of antifascism for no reasonnable reasons other than making shamefull comparison to "shamefull" countries when they are really not worse that what is happening at the moment in the western world.
> A few week before that, I learned about the horrors of racism linked with gentrification and completely changed my vision of the way I apprehend noise in the public space.
I have hundreds of exemple like that in this year alone. Btw... did you noticed that I'm using swear words now ? I did that after multiple people convinced me of the futility of keeping my vocabulary safe in front of people who want me dead. If I said "I will never let anyone mold my thought and beliefs" when I was a conspiracy theorist and borderline reactionnary.. I would have NEVER become a leftist.
My reactance in front of your guyz's rethorics and the biases that you guys have created in response are completely preventing you from looking at the actual nature of the person that is talking to you right now. A person that is literally defined by change and the idea that listening to people and allowing them to change who you are is one of the best quality one can have.
And if you don't understand what I'm saying here. I suggest you look at my messages that were adressed to this thread before and after Blax entered the discussion.
"Think beyond" does not only means thinks "something else" or think beyond "what you believe about the world while being careful of your biases".
It literally means.. "think beyond" the image that I project.
My biggest rightist belief is this:
I can abandon the idea that we must keep talking to rightist and reactionnaries to convince them in - and only in - closed spaces like this one or in a family gatherin for ex.
Many radical leftists would laugh or ridiculize me for doing what I'm doing here. But I just can't give up on this idea. I was like them, so if I changed, this means that everyone has that same potential.
My conviction is just an illusion that makes you think that I'm a rock in my belief system, when in reality, I've changed my vision and values a LOT since I came here.
Yup, it's not about winning, it't about politicizing. Something that is not a competition, but a necessity under the rise of fascism.
I do let people shape my beliefs.
ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
> In fact, no late that yersterday, I listened to a 16yo activist. This allowed me to understand and prevent myself from developing a major bias toward the fights of younger politicized people.
> Just a mear week ago - as I explained earlier - I listened to an activist explaining how anti-asian racism and specifically the cases of North Korea and China were overused under the colonial ombrellas of antifascism for no reasonnable reasons other than making shamefull comparison to "shamefull" countries when they are really not worse that what is happening at the moment in the western world.
> A few week before that, I learned about the horrors of racism linked with gentrification and completely changed my vision of the way I apprehend noise in the public space.
I have hundreds of exemple like that in this year alone. Btw... did you noticed that I'm using swear words now ? I did that after multiple people convinced me of the futility of keeping my vocabulary safe in front of people who want me dead. If I said "I will never let anyone mold my thought and beliefs" when I was a conspiracy theorist and borderline reactionnary.. I would have NEVER become a leftist.
My reactance in front of your guyz's rethorics and the biases that you guys have created in response are completely preventing you from looking at the actual nature of the person that is talking to you right now. A person that is literally defined by change and the idea that listening to people and allowing them to change who you are is one of the best quality one can have.
And if you don't understand what I'm saying here. I suggest you look at my messages that were adressed to this thread before and after Blax entered the discussion.
"Think beyond" does not only means thinks "something else" or think beyond "what you believe about the world while being careful of your biases".
It literally means.. "think beyond" the image that I project.
My biggest rightist belief is this:
I can abandon the idea that we must keep talking to rightist and reactionnaries to convince them in - and only in - closed spaces like this one or in a family gatherin for ex.
Many radical leftists would laugh or ridiculize me for doing what I'm doing here. But I just can't give up on this idea. I was like them, so if I changed, this means that everyone has that same potential.
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Even though I think stricter regulations are necessary, I actually do support responsible gun ownership and believe the Second Amendment should be protected…the idea of having a firearm doesn’t fully appeal to me, but I understand why (most) people want them and they should have the right to defend themselves - again, responsibly 
I actually do support responsible gun ownership and believe the Second Amendment should be protected…the idea of having a firearm doesn’t fully appeal to me, but I understand why (most) people want them and they should have the right to defend themselves - again, responsibly
I was against private gun ownership (and still is) BUT looking at the rise of fascism... my mind is starting to wonder.. maybe not an actual private personnal ownership, but a collectivisation... I don't know
Sorry for the long post in advance. This thread has been a little dry lately so I wanted to try to kickstart a healthy discussion with some civil discourse.
I'm fully strapped so I agree. Common sense gun legislation shouldn't be this hard to pass on paper but it is a slippery slope. Let's say for example if there's a person with a background of mental health issues and the law prohibits them from owning a gun. Just purely hypothetically, it's like we're telling someone that just because they have mental health struggles, they aren't entitled to the same right to protect themselves as the rest of us. Of course it would depend on the nature of their struggles and perhaps you could have some sort of a system in place where they'd have to undergo some sort of test or examination but even those measures can be arbitrary to an extent due to the nature of the disability.
I'm not sure how something like that would even work, its difficult to imagine. Ideally there would be laws in place that prohibit a governing body from mobilizing military force within its own borders against its own citizens but when your very government itself is threatened and your constitution is constantly violated, laws mean nothing to them.
I guess I'll throw out some of my controversial right wing views. Totally open to debate these and change my views since I believe approaching a debate with no intent to see the other person's viewpoint is ultimately a fruitless endeavor.
1. I don't believe children should be given the agency to transition until they are of legal age
2. Transgenderism is a mental disorder and there are only two true genders. I don't say this in a way meant to belittle transgender individuals. They're not crazy or dumb or anything along those lines and they deserve exactly the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us however, if you were born biologically as one gender but you identify as the other, I believe it fits the technical definition of a mental disorder
3. I very much believe in traditional gender roles (but obviously I don't believe everyone should be forced to conform to them)
4. As much as I am for universal health care, I think having private healthcare as an option for those who can afford it is fine
5. Fundamentally DEI initiatives can be problematic (but due to bigotry they are necessary)
---------------
While I'm at it I'll also throw out my most controversial leftist takes:
---------------
1. I don't believe in freedom of speech fundamentally; I view it as a necessary evil.
2. Wealth caps should be imposed in the U.S. on anyone with a personal net worth above $100,000,000
3. Universal basic income should be available to everyone
4. The immigration process should be simplified drastically at least concerning allied nations
5. Education should be free and never be privatized while funding should always be distributed evenly on a per capita basis
I also want to say that I am not a centrist. I identify as a leftist.
Even though I think stricter regulations are necessary, I actually do support responsible gun ownership and believe the Second Amendment should be protected…the idea of having a firearm doesn’t fully appeal to me, but I understand why (most) people want them and they should have the right to defend themselves - again, responsibly
I'm not sure how something like that would even work, its difficult to imagine. Ideally there would be laws in place that prohibit a governing body from mobilizing military force within its own borders against its own citizens but when your very government itself is threatened and your constitution is constantly violated, laws mean nothing to them.
I guess I'll throw out some of my controversial right wing views. Totally open to debate these and change my views since I believe approaching a debate with no intent to see the other person's viewpoint is ultimately a fruitless endeavor.
1. I don't believe children should be given the agency to transition until they are of legal age
2. Transgenderism is a mental disorder and there are only two true genders. I don't say this in a way meant to belittle transgender individuals. They're not crazy or dumb or anything along those lines and they deserve exactly the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us however, if you were born biologically as one gender but you identify as the other, I believe it fits the technical definition of a mental disorder
3. I very much believe in traditional gender roles (but obviously I don't believe everyone should be forced to conform to them)
4. As much as I am for universal health care, I think having private healthcare as an option for those who can afford it is fine
5. Fundamentally DEI initiatives can be problematic (but due to bigotry they are necessary)
---------------
While I'm at it I'll also throw out my most controversial leftist takes:
---------------
1. I don't believe in freedom of speech fundamentally; I view it as a necessary evil.
2. Wealth caps should be imposed in the U.S. on anyone with a personal net worth above $100,000,000
3. Universal basic income should be available to everyone
4. The immigration process should be simplified drastically at least concerning allied nations
5. Education should be free and never be privatized while funding should always be distributed evenly on a per capita basis
I also want to say that I am not a centrist. I identify as a leftist.
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The me of three years ago would not have taken what you said here lightly and while I still think the same way about this rethoric, I believe it's no use in labelling you specifically in this space. Instead, I will tell you this:
If a very fragile trans person happened to read what you said, it could deal damages.
You can't say "Transgenderism is a mental disorder" and say "I don't say this in a way meant to belittle transgender" at the same time all the while denying their existence in the process. What you are factually doing (and I know exactly what I'm talking about here as an handicaped man who was called a mentally ill man as an insult hundreds of times) is dehumanizing them.
(I believe - from experience here - that your first reflex will be to tell me that you didn't dehumanize them. I'm not saying this to attack or label you but describe the words you are using from the point of view of someone who is called a "mentally ill" enough to implode. Trust me. You might not think it's a dehumanization, but it is)
This is the belief that trans people are a category of person that we must heal from themselves. A category of person that is not legitimate in their existence. I think it's useless to try to counter what you said on gender, so I suggest this:
For the moment. I would recommend not to talk about or TO trans people as long as you deny their legitimate existence (at least in front of them or social media), even without saying all of that to them, there is a risk of you hurting them or acting against them. If you are willing to change this.. I can only recommend you to find and follow cool trans people on social media. A least 10-15 there are thousands of amazing creators on youtube, twitch and other plateforms for that. This could make you understand that there is absolutely not mental disorder here.
I won't consider you an ally for this reason, leftism needs complete trans acceptance.
If a very fragile trans person happened to read what you said, it could deal damages.
You can't say "Transgenderism is a mental disorder" and say "I don't say this in a way meant to belittle transgender" at the same time all the while denying their existence in the process. What you are factually doing (and I know exactly what I'm talking about here as an handicaped man who was called a mentally ill man as an insult hundreds of times) is dehumanizing them.
(I believe - from experience here - that your first reflex will be to tell me that you didn't dehumanize them. I'm not saying this to attack or label you but describe the words you are using from the point of view of someone who is called a "mentally ill" enough to implode. Trust me. You might not think it's a dehumanization, but it is)
This is the belief that trans people are a category of person that we must heal from themselves. A category of person that is not legitimate in their existence. I think it's useless to try to counter what you said on gender, so I suggest this:
For the moment. I would recommend not to talk about or TO trans people as long as you deny their legitimate existence (at least in front of them or social media), even without saying all of that to them, there is a risk of you hurting them or acting against them. If you are willing to change this.. I can only recommend you to find and follow cool trans people on social media. A least 10-15 there are thousands of amazing creators on youtube, twitch and other plateforms for that. This could make you understand that there is absolutely not mental disorder here.
I won't consider you an ally for this reason, leftism needs complete trans acceptance.
I understand the statement itself can come across as offensive on a surface level, even harmful to someone lacking the mental fortitude to deal with something like that being said to them but I also don’t believe in sugar coating my stance to make it sting less. I would never attempt to stereotype or dehumanize any trans person, I simply view it in a similar light in which I would view someone with chronic depression or someone who is a high functioning autistic person. That isn’t to say I think it’s something they should overcome as it isn’t something that impairs them like chronic depression would, it’s just that their minds are at odds with their body’s physicality, similar to how a high functioning autistic person’s mind differs from the norm. They mostly just think differently and that’s completely fine. I don’t believe pointing out differences is dehumanization as most humans have differences.
That is completely fine, I definitely don’t think it’s something inherently harmful but more so an indicator of their minds working in a different way than a cisgender person’s would.
Also @Logiko thank you for not immediately moving to label me as a transphobe. I’m open to understanding your point of view on dehumanization. Statements of this nature can certainly be isolating and that in and of itself can lead to people not feeling accepted but I believe acceptance comes in spite of differences.
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That is completely fine, I definitely don’t think it’s something inherently harmful but more so an indicator of their minds working in a different way than a cisgender person’s would.
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Also @Logiko thank you for not immediately moving to label me as a transphobe. I’m open to understanding your point of view on dehumanization. Statements of this nature can certainly be isolating and that in and of itself can lead to people not feeling accepted but I believe acceptance comes in spite of differences.
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