Controversial General Political Discussion

[Roo]

Interesting yet complicated question. I don't think there is one single answer.

The first priority should be the spreading of anti-capitalist knowledge as much as we can. Imperialism is but an extension of the system, so by knowing very well about the effect of capitalism (socially and geopolitically) we open the door to anti-imperialism.

Then we need to push anti-imperialist politics.. but it means creating socialist ones which means becoming the target of capitalist and imperialist country such as the US.

Capitalism is threatened by nature by socialism and the end of private proprety, capitalism needs the destruction of these systems to survive and create free market. So we can only become its target.

This is a big conundrum that can only be solve internationally. We need a collective international push toward leftism and a post-communist society, it's the only way we will be able to protect eachothers against the imperialist push and stuff like what happened today.

irrc nat is from an ex soviet nation so she'd likely disagree with the whole idea of pushing for socialism worldwide

 

[Natalija]

irrc nat is from an ex soviet nation so she'd likely disagree with the whole idea of pushing for socialism worldwide

I was born in a socialist state, so indeed

 

[MonochromeYoru]

That's not how it works, every country has ownership over their recourses, it's just that with the US companies being allowed to invest and bring technology will massively improve production = bring a lot more revenue to Venezuela, who will earn a lot via royalties, taxes and having a serious industry.

Venezuela didn't invest into it at all to have serious earnings, their production is now shit.

Lol Nat if you think US won't completely rob Venezuela of their resources for bare minimum returns for the Venezuelan people, and leave the country a depleted mess, you're dumb.

Most of the citizens are not gonna be seeing a cent from this

 

[AL sama]

 

[Natalija]

Lol Nat if you think US won't completely rob Venezuela of their resources for bare minimum returns for the Venezuelan people, and leave the country a depleted mess, you're dumb.

Most of the citizens are not gonna be seeing a cent from this

Did you read over royalties, taxes and having an industry?

 

[Roo]

I was born in a socialist state, so indeed

it's funny to me how the only way socialism can work in these people's mind is only if everybody and their momma joins a socialist state

meanwhile China and Vietnam seem to be doing okay with their "market socialism" without the need to spread it lol

 

[eamonpro]

That's not how it works, every country has ownership over their recourses, it's just that with the US companies being allowed to invest and bring technology will massively improve production = bring a lot more revenue to Venezuela, who will earn a lot via royalties, taxes and having a serious industry.

Venezuela didn't invest into it at all to have serious earnings, their production is now shit.

oh yeah some Venezuelans will get jobs for a while, and some will be more rich. But a pittance, because the USA explicitly invaded to give USA corporations billions of dollars and is already talking about attacking more nations. It takes a dumbass to pretend that the corporations taking over will help the people. At best their will be factory shanty towns that are moderately more wealthy but can never dissent or strike or fight for representation because the might of billions of dollars will be pushed upon the populace by the pro USA corrupt regime. Seriously again, are we pretending there is any chance the USA doesn’t ignore corruption for oil? I refuse to do the “no one knows the future” song and dance when it’s this obvious?

why would I pretend there is a single modicum of care about Venezuelans among the people doing this? The whole “their production is now shit” is basically just “they can’t do it, we need to be in control of the oil.” Lmfao, sounds really good for the Venezuelans, totally not a bs justification for some pillage and indentured servitude

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

You keep refusing to honestly engage and ranting about how everyone but you is a mean anti USA dictator lover. Because you’re a pussy.

no, I’m concerned that even if it’s nominally better citizens will still be worried about being arrested or killed for dissent. Corruption will still be rampant. They can be pro USA, but if they will not be allowed to be anything but pro USA you will just spend the coming years ignoring news of dissenters being jailed and continuing to insist anything but a smile and pure optimistic hope is commie teenager dictator worship. And that well a few less people are getting killed so I have to suck the usas dick for it and pretend it ain’t monstrous. You started one day after the takeover, you’re gonna be one of the best at it.

The US invasion was bad. Maduro was also terrible. The US is a bunch of selfish imperialists. Multiple things can be true at once. All Im saying is that, as long as the process is democratic, I don’t care if Venezuela becomes a USA dicksucker if the lives of Venezuelans improve and there’s actual freedom of speech. This won’t make the US invasion right. It’ll simply make it a lesser evil. (Calling it an invasion is also kinda crazy as of now since there were barely civilian deaths and the country is peaceful at the moment)

 

[Logiko]

irrc nat is from an ex soviet nation so she'd likely disagree with the whole idea of pushing for socialism worldwide

I mean, I live in the current capitalist european Union. I understand and live the horror of capitalism very well...

So what do we do now? We count the points or we look at the reality of the systems?

 

[Roo]

Lol Nat if you think US won't completely rob Venezuela of their resources for bare minimum returns for the Venezuelan people, and leave the country a depleted mess, you're dumb.

when has the U.S ever robbed an entire country of their resources

Genuinely curious. the countries I know of earn a share of the wealth U.S companies make off their reserves

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Did you read over royalties, taxes and having an industry?

Will not matter

 

[Roo]

I mean, I live in the current capitalist european Union. I understand the horror of capitalism very well...

So what do we do now? We count the points or we look at the reality of the systems?

You are pushing for a system she's very well aware of. That's my point, it's pretty funny to see

 

[Natalija]

oh yeah some Venezuelans will get jobs for a while, and some will be more rich. But a pittance, because the USA explicitly invaded to give USA corporations billions of dollars and is already talking about attacking more nations. It takes a dumbass to pretend that the corporations taking over will help the people. At best their will be factory shanty towns that are moderately more wealthy but can never dissent or strike or fight for representation because the might of billions of dollars will be pushed upon the populace by the pro USA corrupt regime. Seriously again, are we pretending there is any chance the USA doesn’t ignore corruption for oil? I refuse to do the “no one knows the future” song and dance when it’s this obvious?

why would I pretend there is a single modicum of care about Venezuelans among the people doing this? The whole “their production is now shit” is basically just “they can’t do it, we need to be in control of the oil.” Lmfao, sounds really good for the Venezuelans, totally not a bs justification for some pillage and indentured servitude

It will absolutely be a win for the US and US companies, but as I said, far from it that Venezuela won't profit GREATLY if they bring all their resources to the market properly.

And yes, they cannot do it.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

These communists wanna do everything but actually live in a communist society. Lol

 

[MonochromeYoru]

when has the U.S ever robbed an entire country of their resources

Genuinely curious. the countries I know of earn a share of the wealth U.S companies make off their reserves

Which country's people's lives have dramatically become better due to US involvement in their natural resources?

Not the ruling class or wealthy or politicians of that country. The actual poor.

 

[Natalija]

Will not matter

A non argument

 

[eamonpro]

These communists wanna do everything but actually live in a communist society. Lol

Still being a pussy lol

 

[Roo]

Not the ruling class or wealthy or politicians of that country. The actual poor.

How will the actual poor benefit from non U.S involvement? The poor were actually fleeing Venezuela to neighboring colombia and dominican republic for example.

 

[Natalija]

it's funny to me how the only way socialism can work in these people's mind is only if everybody and their momma joins a socialist state

meanwhile China and Vietnam seem to be doing okay with their "market socialism" without the need to spread it lol

I do not subscribe to the newly appeared socialist ideas. It's a terrible trend and it only came alive in countries that have clearly had 0 experience with it.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

Still being a pussy lol

Would you rather live in America or the Baltic states during the Soviet era?