Controversial General Political Discussion
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And you sound biased. My wife is a foreigner of a different ethnicity. That definitely makes me a xenophobe 
.
You're a disingenuous actor. I have no issues with foreigners. I have issues with migrants who do not integrate. Especially migrants that refuse to properly integrate, utilise a country like an economic zone, but would never welcome people in their own country for the same purpose - you know, like Pakistan, who expels Afghans:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74z19pl7wgo
.You're a disingenuous actor. I have no issues with foreigners. I have issues with migrants who do not integrate. Especially migrants that refuse to properly integrate, utilise a country like an economic zone, but would never welcome people in their own country for the same purpose - you know, like Pakistan, who expels Afghans:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74z19pl7wgo
This guy is a xenophobe as well
You mean the Pakistan state
Racism is mostly a white man issue but intolerance is a mankind problem.
However, I do not respect individuals who wish to use us as an economic zone. Who actively mock the British way of life and create parallel societies. Regardless of how much you try to claim otherwise, they absolutely exist. Modern day migration is predominantly of this variety. To be against it is natural.
Racism is not exclusively white.
Intolerance is a natural reaction towards those who have shown they undermine your way of life and mock your values and traditions.
As for your comment about 'The Pakistan State' you simply need to meet more people who live there. I have the luxury of this, and know it is rather well supported by the general populace, and good for them - they should secure their borders, and so should we.
Not for me
Not really. All cutlture are the children of other culture and within each culture resides a multitude of cultures.
The world is not a bloc. It's fluid. Always changing.
And even they have multiple types of culture wihin their nation.
I believe the opposite. A population that keeps "inbreeding" physically, ethically and socially can only destroy itself or at the very least, lost itself completely. Just like we are not made to stay alone or never meet other people, on the macro scale, population are not made to never reach out of their social boundary.
Eventually, people will want to reach out outward. And this is a good thing.
It will gladly never happen. By essence, a culture is shaped by space and time. Meaning that through space and through time, a culture divide itself and evolve. So by definition and unless you plan to create a culture within a state of a city wide diameter, you will always live in a country with multiple types of cultures.
Yes, but I'm not talking about "borders" here. I'm talking about the concept of borders over patriotism and nationalism. THese notions are recent. They were constructed during the period of the French revolution.
What existed before that was rather a form of tribalism, not nationalism, which is kind of specific to out capitalist era.
Like?
I don't believe to be smart or that I know a lot more than you, but I do believe that science gave me a understanding of the world allowing me not to be afraid of other and to dream - rationnally - about a collectivist world.
If this is the "light" you are talking about, it is true.
PErhaps if you saw them simply as people who try to survive, you wouldn't try to reject them? I don't know.. I'm not in your head.
Technically it is
Also non-white people can be racist.
(simply not against white people)
Not really. All cutlture are the children of other culture and within each culture resides a multitude of cultures.
The world is not a bloc. It's fluid. Always changing.
And even they have multiple types of culture wihin their nation.
I believe the opposite. A population that keeps "inbreeding" physically, ethically and socially can only destroy itself or at the very least, lost itself completely. Just like we are not made to stay alone or never meet other people, on the macro scale, population are not made to never reach out of their social boundary.
Eventually, people will want to reach out outward. And this is a good thing.
It will gladly never happen. By essence, a culture is shaped by space and time. Meaning that through space and through time, a culture divide itself and evolve. So by definition and unless you plan to create a culture within a state of a city wide diameter, you will always live in a country with multiple types of cultures.
Yes, but I'm not talking about "borders" here. I'm talking about the concept of borders over patriotism and nationalism. THese notions are recent. They were constructed during the period of the French revolution.
What existed before that was rather a form of tribalism, not nationalism, which is kind of specific to out capitalist era.
Like?
I don't believe to be smart or that I know a lot more than you, but I do believe that science gave me a understanding of the world allowing me not to be afraid of other and to dream - rationnally - about a collectivist world.
If this is the "light" you are talking about, it is true.
PErhaps if you saw them simply as people who try to survive, you wouldn't try to reject them? I don't know.. I'm not in your head.
Technically it is
Also non-white people can be racist.
(simply not against white people)
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You see, I was wondering because I'd heard a few arabic individuals using a word that sounded similar to that... huh.
Nope. They're still trying to leech off the accomplishments of others, draining systems they did not build and damaging the local culture through in-group preferences whilst calling the native population racist if they try to do the same.
And a predominant culture of Han Chinese. I am not saying no other cultures can exist, but there must be a culture that is dominant and respected within the region. There have almost always been small levels of immigration, but these do not cause major social or demographic change within a nation.
Not true.
Curious question, Logiko. Are you ethnically French? You mentioned being from immigrants.
Nope. They're still trying to leech off the accomplishments of others, draining systems they did not build and damaging the local culture through in-group preferences whilst calling the native population racist if they try to do the same.
And a predominant culture of Han Chinese. I am not saying no other cultures can exist, but there must be a culture that is dominant and respected within the region. There have almost always been small levels of immigration, but these do not cause major social or demographic change within a nation.
Not true.
Curious question, Logiko. Are you ethnically French? You mentioned being from immigrants.
You "know" or you "think" ?
Did you get out of your environment where people are asshole to check if the majority of migrants were like that, or are you simply assuming based on your experience and what you can see on the news?
Because I can tell you that if I take my personnal vision, the words of activists trying to help these people, my own family being activily in touch with migrant in difficult situation and scholars who have researched the subject... I have absolutely the opposite feeling.
(being that people are simply trying to survive and make no wave)
I don't think that a culture is not something we should "respect" just because we should respect it. To me, this vision is a circular thinking process with no basis.
On the other hand, I believe that we should share our culture. And while there will always be a culture that will be shared more than others, there are no reason to consider it as a "dominant culture".
I think seeing cultures through the prism of power domination is the best way to create and perpetuate dominations. Cultures should be seen as ever fluid systems that can evolve and be shared without the use of power relationships or oppressive mindset. A population shouldn't have to think that their own culture is more legitimate than others.
While there are ethics that should be respected everywhere, I don't believe that cultures should be opposed. They are usually more interesting and more constructive or creative together.
Allowing ourselves to dive into another culture or language usually allows us to change our perspective and grow. If I hadn't learn english I wouldn't be picturing the world the same way today. BY learning this language, I broaden my horizon. And now, by trying to learn more about the complexities of other south global cultures without a orientalist mindset, I'm trying to look beyondmy westerner preconceptions.
As I said, I believe that we should all embrass alterity
I am fully french, I'm just a second generation product of immigration. Mainly from people fleeing fascism from the south.
Did you get out of your environment where people are asshole to check if the majority of migrants were like that, or are you simply assuming based on your experience and what you can see on the news?
Because I can tell you that if I take my personnal vision, the words of activists trying to help these people, my own family being activily in touch with migrant in difficult situation and scholars who have researched the subject... I have absolutely the opposite feeling.
(being that people are simply trying to survive and make no wave)
I don't think that a culture is not something we should "respect" just because we should respect it. To me, this vision is a circular thinking process with no basis.
On the other hand, I believe that we should share our culture. And while there will always be a culture that will be shared more than others, there are no reason to consider it as a "dominant culture".
I think seeing cultures through the prism of power domination is the best way to create and perpetuate dominations. Cultures should be seen as ever fluid systems that can evolve and be shared without the use of power relationships or oppressive mindset. A population shouldn't have to think that their own culture is more legitimate than others.
While there are ethics that should be respected everywhere, I don't believe that cultures should be opposed. They are usually more interesting and more constructive or creative together.
Allowing ourselves to dive into another culture or language usually allows us to change our perspective and grow. If I hadn't learn english I wouldn't be picturing the world the same way today. BY learning this language, I broaden my horizon. And now, by trying to learn more about the complexities of other south global cultures without a orientalist mindset, I'm trying to look beyondmy westerner preconceptions.
As I said, I believe that we should all embrass alterity
I am fully french, I'm just a second generation product of immigration. Mainly from people fleeing fascism from the south.
Couldn't confidently say, but they were from the African continent - immigrants, not black British.
What does this mean? How can you be a second generation immigrant if you are fully French, unless you mean you're a French citizen? Or are you saying your family fled from southern France?
Your argument hinges on the idea that 'you cannot experience everything, therefore everything is subjective. There is a greater truth you cannot see.'
I have travelled all over my country, Logiko. I am a very social person who has friends from all over. Whilst it is not unilateral, and there are some good experiences, the majority of people I've met share similar sentiments - albeit, a little quieter than I.
The reality is, the migrants that tend to cause the most problems are from Africa and the Middle-East. These groups do not seem to want to assimilate unlike European and East Asian immigrants. These groups tend to make ghettos and parallel societies a lot more frequently. Of course, there is the odd 'China Town' as well, but it's far less common in the UK.
We simply won't agree on this point, so let us stop.
Here is the crux of the problem, Logiko. It is not because you 'should' respect it by the nature of it's existence. You should respect a culture that was kind enough to take you in and look after you. The fact that you cannot comprehend that is part of the problem.
Showing proper respect for your benefactors is natural behaviour. If you cannot see that, then once again, we are simply too ideologically different to reach a point of understanding.
I respect any bilingual person for learning another. I am near fluent in Korean because I want my kids to learn their mother's tongue.
What does this mean? How can you be a second generation immigrant if you are fully French, unless you mean you're a French citizen? Or are you saying your family fled from southern France?
Your argument hinges on the idea that 'you cannot experience everything, therefore everything is subjective. There is a greater truth you cannot see.'
I have travelled all over my country, Logiko. I am a very social person who has friends from all over. Whilst it is not unilateral, and there are some good experiences, the majority of people I've met share similar sentiments - albeit, a little quieter than I.
The reality is, the migrants that tend to cause the most problems are from Africa and the Middle-East. These groups do not seem to want to assimilate unlike European and East Asian immigrants. These groups tend to make ghettos and parallel societies a lot more frequently. Of course, there is the odd 'China Town' as well, but it's far less common in the UK.
We simply won't agree on this point, so let us stop.
Here is the crux of the problem, Logiko. It is not because you 'should' respect it by the nature of it's existence. You should respect a culture that was kind enough to take you in and look after you. The fact that you cannot comprehend that is part of the problem.
Showing proper respect for your benefactors is natural behaviour. If you cannot see that, then once again, we are simply too ideologically different to reach a point of understanding.
I respect any bilingual person for learning another. I am near fluent in Korean because I want my kids to learn their mother's tongue.
What does this mean? How can you be a second generation immigrant if you are fully French, unless you mean you're a French citizen? Or are you saying your family fled from southern France?
Remember what I said about occupied France? Well, if you had traveled the country back then, the majority of the population would have told you just how bad of an experience they had with jew and how bad they think they are. Were they right because of their experience? No.
Sometime it's important to consider the fact that our ideologies are constructed by belief systems and domination out of our individual control. When I started to slide toward islamophobia. I too had thought that my experience and preconception of the world was legitimated by the words of people "everywhere"... until I noticed that I was victim of an information bubble, until I notice that everything I consumed, every people I was talking to were reenforcing these beliefs that "Islam" is a problem. I had some bad experience, but I never cared to look beyond it, beyond what I would see.
So I read researches, I talked with activist and muslim directly, I asked them questions, I tried to understand more the subject and I appeased my hearth.
I'm not saying that it is was you are living, we all have different experience, I get that now. But maybe we should all consider how much our biases impact our vision of the world and just search for more objective approaches to look at it.
I think that if I was afraid of a "great replacement", I would start to understand the culture that I think is replacing us in the first place.
I don't see more problem with migrants (african or not) than I see with any other populations.
What type of information led you to believe that most problems were coming from migrant from africa and middle-East?
"The "odd" chinatown"?
Sure, but is this what our culture are doing?
When I see migrants in the streets, when I read documents showing that migrants are parked or will be parked in massive concentration center, when I see the racism of the population against them, when I see every politics from right to left trying to strip them of their right, when I see people constantly asking for the minimum to survive, when I hear that they are forced to do job that could be considered as forced labor.....
I do not really witness a "culture that is kind enough to take them and look after them". Rather the opposite.
True, but that's only if there are benefactors. I don't see much benefactors within Europe regarding migrants.
Respect is not something we shall give in absolute. I'll try to respect people who welcome me, but if they welcome me while beating me up, I will rebel and this action will be legitimate.
Where from?
In this context, it means rare. Not 'odd' as in strange.
Seems you're making an assumption here.
I will never purport myself to be an expert on a faith I do not follow, but I have spoken with ex-Muslims who have warned me against Taqiyya being utilised to purposefully hide Islamosupremacist beliefs held by practicing Muslims. Whether this is a scare tactic by them or not is something I cannot ascertain, as there are sources saying two different things, but from what I have read, some Muslims will openly lie about their beliefs and have the shield to do so via their religion.
Proportionately - not numerically. Of course there will be more crimes committed by the majority, but in proportion to their number, they commit more crimes in the UK.
I saw statistics on this in the past.
What came first, the chicken or the egg? Europe was very welcoming until very recently. The shift towards anti-migration is a new phenomenon, often or not formed through years of migrants taking advantage of native European's kindness.
The fact they are even allowed to live on land that is not theres are the behest of the natives show they are benefactors.
In this context, it means rare. Not 'odd' as in strange.
Seems you're making an assumption here.
I will never purport myself to be an expert on a faith I do not follow, but I have spoken with ex-Muslims who have warned me against Taqiyya being utilised to purposefully hide Islamosupremacist beliefs held by practicing Muslims. Whether this is a scare tactic by them or not is something I cannot ascertain, as there are sources saying two different things, but from what I have read, some Muslims will openly lie about their beliefs and have the shield to do so via their religion.
Proportionately - not numerically. Of course there will be more crimes committed by the majority, but in proportion to their number, they commit more crimes in the UK.
I saw statistics on this in the past.
What came first, the chicken or the egg? Europe was very welcoming until very recently. The shift towards anti-migration is a new phenomenon, often or not formed through years of migrants taking advantage of native European's kindness.
The fact they are even allowed to live on land that is not theres are the behest of the natives show they are benefactors.
Spain
Aren't you the one talking about your culture being disrespected and taken over by migrants? If I was ever led to a belief that a certain group of people are inherently violent because of where they come from, I would push an alarm button in my head and try first to understand the culture of people who I am afraid is trying to profit from my country.
Structurally, ex-leftist will usually fall toward the framework of identitary politics, so they will project the insecurities and moral panic of the far right on their own experiences going as far as sometimes rejecting their own families because of it.
While it is true that there are oppression within the realm of muslim families. THese oppression are not stronger than in any other religious household. THe problem is not religion or so called "taqiyya" that depict all muslim as cunning (like jews were seen by Nazi at the time), the problem is rather the domination systems these belief are striving into : patriarchy mostly.
We believe that this domination is the main factor of oppression within families just like it is the main factor of oppression in every other families (believers or not). As such, we do not believe in an inherent negative factor of Islam. I've learn to trust the researches and individual in questions more than my moral panics dictated by far rightists or people who felt into these beliefs out of rejection.
I see muslim people fighting patriarchy everyday, raising their pride flags, fighting patriarchy, fighting for the right of others. I have absolutely no reasons to fear Islam or to believe that believers are inherently cunning because of their faith.
I fell into that mindset once. I distrusted everyone and everything, myself included. All I saw was darkness and as a result, my vision of the world got narrow, small, uninteresting, full of fears.
No more. I'm now choosing to trust and I'm choosing hope.
People who are marginalized and racialized will usually be more present in criminal statistics than others. This is an unfortunate social result of the structure of domination systems.
What I'm really interested in, is not how much crime marginalized people are doing. This is not a viable information. On the other hand, a interesting information to judge the quality of a civilization.. is to look at the differences of the rights between people and the marginalized ones.
For we can see the true "advancement" and "maturity" of a civilisation on the way it treats the people who have less.
None
Mutation and evolution came first. A pressure on the DNA, a change in the very structure of an animal. This is what lead for a non chicken to breed a chicken.
In our cases. What came first are capitalism and white supremacy. The idea that some people should be considered as more worthy than others because of their blood, their culture or their skin and therefore the idea that others should be exploited.
White supremacy and capitalism are created colonialism, imperialism and the destruction of these country and they are also what is creating the rejection of migrant who now have no other solution than to come here.
If I had to search for a real culprit, if I had to put my fear into the right buckets, I would look at these two systems.
No. It has been going for over a century if not more (again, the irish are a good example of racialization and the rejection of migrants). The difference now is that this phenomenon is stronger because the far right is everywhere, just like it was before WWII.
Aren't you the one talking about your culture being disrespected and taken over by migrants? If I was ever led to a belief that a certain group of people are inherently violent because of where they come from, I would push an alarm button in my head and try first to understand the culture of people who I am afraid is trying to profit from my country.
Structurally, ex-leftist will usually fall toward the framework of identitary politics, so they will project the insecurities and moral panic of the far right on their own experiences going as far as sometimes rejecting their own families because of it.
While it is true that there are oppression within the realm of muslim families. THese oppression are not stronger than in any other religious household. THe problem is not religion or so called "taqiyya" that depict all muslim as cunning (like jews were seen by Nazi at the time), the problem is rather the domination systems these belief are striving into : patriarchy mostly.
We believe that this domination is the main factor of oppression within families just like it is the main factor of oppression in every other families (believers or not). As such, we do not believe in an inherent negative factor of Islam. I've learn to trust the researches and individual in questions more than my moral panics dictated by far rightists or people who felt into these beliefs out of rejection.
I see muslim people fighting patriarchy everyday, raising their pride flags, fighting patriarchy, fighting for the right of others. I have absolutely no reasons to fear Islam or to believe that believers are inherently cunning because of their faith.
I fell into that mindset once. I distrusted everyone and everything, myself included. All I saw was darkness and as a result, my vision of the world got narrow, small, uninteresting, full of fears.
No more. I'm now choosing to trust and I'm choosing hope.
People who are marginalized and racialized will usually be more present in criminal statistics than others. This is an unfortunate social result of the structure of domination systems.
What I'm really interested in, is not how much crime marginalized people are doing. This is not a viable information. On the other hand, a interesting information to judge the quality of a civilization.. is to look at the differences of the rights between people and the marginalized ones.
For we can see the true "advancement" and "maturity" of a civilisation on the way it treats the people who have less.
None
Mutation and evolution came first. A pressure on the DNA, a change in the very structure of an animal. This is what lead for a non chicken to breed a chicken.
In our cases. What came first are capitalism and white supremacy. The idea that some people should be considered as more worthy than others because of their blood, their culture or their skin and therefore the idea that others should be exploited.
White supremacy and capitalism are created colonialism, imperialism and the destruction of these country and they are also what is creating the rejection of migrant who now have no other solution than to come here.
If I had to search for a real culprit, if I had to put my fear into the right buckets, I would look at these two systems.
No. It has been going for over a century if not more (again, the irish are a good example of racialization and the rejection of migrants). The difference now is that this phenomenon is stronger because the far right is everywhere, just like it was before WWII.
I could make a derogatory comment about my fellow British Isles members, but I won't. 
Interesting.
Not taken over. I see dire action happening in the new future. Disrespected? Yes.
I know some thick as shit Muslims, so I know they're not all cunning. Jokes, aside, you haven't explained away the red flag that is taqiyya though.
That would be colonial.
It is just a phrase. Reality is, you're already shifting the goalposts. You're moving all the blatant disrespect towards their benefactors towards oppression systems. Logiko, I actually speak with my ideological opponents. I know many see us as a way to an easy life. They look down on us, not because of oppression systems, but because we're stupid enough to show them grace.
Maybe people finally stopped being patient after years of abuse by the supposed victims of society. You see, I agree, the elites are immune to the struggles of these people, but the common folk? We're not. Coexistance is difficult when one side hates you, and from my experience, it's them who hate us.
Let's cease.
Interesting.
Not taken over. I see dire action happening in the new future. Disrespected? Yes.
I know some thick as shit Muslims, so I know they're not all cunning. Jokes, aside, you haven't explained away the red flag that is taqiyya though.
That would be colonial.
It is just a phrase. Reality is, you're already shifting the goalposts. You're moving all the blatant disrespect towards their benefactors towards oppression systems. Logiko, I actually speak with my ideological opponents. I know many see us as a way to an easy life. They look down on us, not because of oppression systems, but because we're stupid enough to show them grace.
Maybe people finally stopped being patient after years of abuse by the supposed victims of society. You see, I agree, the elites are immune to the struggles of these people, but the common folk? We're not. Coexistance is difficult when one side hates you, and from my experience, it's them who hate us.
Let's cease.
