Questions & Mysteries Honest question: What has Shiryu ever done to be considered such a bogeyman by people in this forum???
He was called as powerful and even more dangerous than Magellan, and this was pre-TS.
Magellan one of the deadliest (therefore one of the most dangerous) characters in the series due to his fruit. He had swarms of powerful-ass dudes running for the hills at the sight of him. Now imagine Shiryu being called as powerful and more dangerous than that guy when he was even weaker than he is now.
Magellan one of the deadliest (therefore one of the most dangerous) characters in the series due to his fruit. He had swarms of powerful-ass dudes running for the hills at the sight of him. Now imagine Shiryu being called as powerful and more dangerous than that guy when he was even weaker than he is now.
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King is a one trick pony, as soon as katakuri realized the FLAMES gimmick who make him more or less durable it's game over for him.
Katakuri has a bigger and more versatile arsenal on top of FS, king isn't nearly as fast as snake man in order to touch katakuri.
Last but no least katakuri also has CoC with prolly ACoC aswell by now, it evolves in battle and mainly comes through genetic ( the whole Lineage stuff isn't a coincidence, genetics play a huge role in OP world), yamato inherited hers from kaido and trained to refine it into ACoC, nothing stops katakuri from also getting it since he prolly inherited from linlin.
King loses to yamato aswell btw.
Regarding your last comment, ryokugyu pierced kings entire body with regular haki covered plants, it's a mistake to believe only CoC is able to harm him.
Either ryokugyu is another ACoC user or king simply isn't as durable as you want him to be.
If king had so much attack power with more endurance than kaido, he would be pushing YONKO lvl himself which he certainly isn't after what greenbull put him through, same greenbull who was pissing his pants to meet kaido or big mom in wano, only deciding to come after their defeat.
Luffy also has FS and way faster than king with snakeman, king wouldn't see what hit him.
Katakuri has a bigger and more versatile arsenal on top of FS, king isn't nearly as fast as snake man in order to touch katakuri.
Last but no least katakuri also has CoC with prolly ACoC aswell by now, it evolves in battle and mainly comes through genetic ( the whole Lineage stuff isn't a coincidence, genetics play a huge role in OP world), yamato inherited hers from kaido and trained to refine it into ACoC, nothing stops katakuri from also getting it since he prolly inherited from linlin.
King loses to yamato aswell btw.
Regarding your last comment, ryokugyu pierced kings entire body with regular haki covered plants, it's a mistake to believe only CoC is able to harm him.
Either ryokugyu is another ACoC user or king simply isn't as durable as you want him to be.
If king had so much attack power with more endurance than kaido, he would be pushing YONKO lvl himself which he certainly isn't after what greenbull put him through, same greenbull who was pissing his pants to meet kaido or big mom in wano, only deciding to come after their defeat.
Luffy also has FS and way faster than king with snakeman, king wouldn't see what hit him.
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There's clearly a "loose" heirarchy Oda is following with these characters when it comes to the scale of Yonko commanders vs Admirals vs Yonko. Some YCs may be weaker (Kata/King), than others (Ben/Shiryu) by virtue that the former are out of the story while the latter are not. Hell, some upper level VAs (i.e. the admiral codename/Zodiac VAs like Chaton, Kurouma, Momousagi) may even be as strong or stronger than some of these YCs.
Then this gets even more complicated depending on when Zoro and Sanji potentially face any of these VAs or Admirals.
For example, lets say Kizaru is the antagonist of Egghead and he brought ~4-5 VAs with him. 3 of them are normal VAs (ex: Momonga, Strawberry, Onigumo), but 2 are Zodiac VAs (ex: Chaton and Kurouma). If Zoro and Sanji fought the Zodiac VAs, then itd be suggested that they are above King and Queen, but still not stronger than Shiryu or Beckman due to their story placement.
Then lets say BB is fought next, and Shiryu loses to Zoro. That would suggest Shiryu is weaker than a potential future Admiral opponent for Zoro if Akainu is not fought beforehand. Same logic with Beckman
So then the order would look something like this: King -> Zodiac VA -> Shiryu/Beckman -> Admiral -> ? (I.e. Ghandi or Mihawk idk). Just a random guess, but Oda's scalings are definitely arbitrary based on who falls next and how.
Then this gets even more complicated depending on when Zoro and Sanji potentially face any of these VAs or Admirals.
For example, lets say Kizaru is the antagonist of Egghead and he brought ~4-5 VAs with him. 3 of them are normal VAs (ex: Momonga, Strawberry, Onigumo), but 2 are Zodiac VAs (ex: Chaton and Kurouma). If Zoro and Sanji fought the Zodiac VAs, then itd be suggested that they are above King and Queen, but still not stronger than Shiryu or Beckman due to their story placement.
Then lets say BB is fought next, and Shiryu loses to Zoro. That would suggest Shiryu is weaker than a potential future Admiral opponent for Zoro if Akainu is not fought beforehand. Same logic with Beckman
So then the order would look something like this: King -> Zodiac VA -> Shiryu/Beckman -> Admiral -> ? (I.e. Ghandi or Mihawk idk). Just a random guess, but Oda's scalings are definitely arbitrary based on who falls next and how.
He didn't.
Everyone who was pierced was drained
King was the only one nor drained and restrained instead
Kata is fodder for zoro
Zoro needs one clean hit and he is done
Kata couldn't dodge anything as big as g3 vs luffy
Zoro stomps him.
Luffys ap is ass
And all he took from zoro was a nerfed broken body asura pre power up
He can't take zoros ap now which is baseline oden level and can go higher
Everyone who was pierced was drained
King was the only one nor drained and restrained instead
Kata is fodder for zoro
Zoro needs one clean hit and he is done
Kata couldn't dodge anything as big as g3 vs luffy
Zoro stomps him.
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Luffys ap is ass
And all he took from zoro was a nerfed broken body asura pre power up
He can't take zoros ap now which is baseline oden level and can go higher
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Kuzan went to WCI and negged big mom's COMMANDERS, greenbull went to Wano and negged kaido's COMMANDERS, it's pretty obvious by now that admirals are a whole level above YCs.
G5 ACoC>>>>>> anything zoro does, he tanked asura with ACoC hence why he said zoro was a conqueror aswell, only difference is that zoro used without being conscious while against king he already knew what it was.
So??? He was still pierced anyway.
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G5 ACoC>>>>>> anything zoro does, he tanked asura with ACoC hence why he said zoro was a conqueror aswell, only difference is that zoro used without being conscious while against king he already knew what it was.
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So??? He was still pierced anyway.
And that's because we are NOT exploring the possibility of Beckman x shiryu.
If oda rlly flips the script, he's gonna make zoro fight against shiryu and after that, ben beckman gonna be zoro's last opponent before mihawk.
If oda rlly flips the script, he's gonna make zoro fight against shiryu and after that, ben beckman gonna be zoro's last opponent before mihawk.
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Oh yeah its definitely going to be a while.
At this point however, I think a lot of people wrongly believe all fights will be endloaded and for the next ~3-5 years to LT, there wont be any substantial arc villains from here to that point. Kaido and BM lost for a reason, and eventually more will fall too. Its just that time.
But I think what we forget is, theres' still plenty of candidates for fights left until the Grand War, and even some of them can coincide with islands they are tied to:
- Kizaru: Heavily suggested to be the next antagonist considering the present situation at Egghead
- Blackbeard: Either could be the main antagonist at Fullalead or he makes to a final showdown at Laugh Tale (imo)
- Shanks: Could have ties to Elbaf, could fall there, or he could fall at Laugh Tale, but his ties to the WG make me think he's survive past the expected point. Both him and BB aiming for One Piece does suggest either one or the other must fall by Laugh Tale.
- Kid: Must concede before Luffy becomes PK so either he loses to someone else or itll be Luffy. Ive guessed Lodestar.
- Weevil/Loki/Ochoku/Silver Axe/etc (some potential Silver Medalist Pirate/Giant Antagonist) at any of the locations mentioned above or some new one
With this, if you dont include Akainu, Im, and the potential of Rocks or some other mysterious endgame antagonist (and to be frank, that could still be BB or Shanks) for the War, you can see that theres just plenty left for Oda to cover before or at Laugh Tale.
At this point however, I think a lot of people wrongly believe all fights will be endloaded and for the next ~3-5 years to LT, there wont be any substantial arc villains from here to that point. Kaido and BM lost for a reason, and eventually more will fall too. Its just that time.
But I think what we forget is, theres' still plenty of candidates for fights left until the Grand War, and even some of them can coincide with islands they are tied to:
- Kizaru: Heavily suggested to be the next antagonist considering the present situation at Egghead
- Blackbeard: Either could be the main antagonist at Fullalead or he makes to a final showdown at Laugh Tale (imo)
- Shanks: Could have ties to Elbaf, could fall there, or he could fall at Laugh Tale, but his ties to the WG make me think he's survive past the expected point. Both him and BB aiming for One Piece does suggest either one or the other must fall by Laugh Tale.
- Kid: Must concede before Luffy becomes PK so either he loses to someone else or itll be Luffy. Ive guessed Lodestar.
- Weevil/Loki/Ochoku/Silver Axe/etc (some potential Silver Medalist Pirate/Giant Antagonist) at any of the locations mentioned above or some new one
With this, if you dont include Akainu, Im, and the potential of Rocks or some other mysterious endgame antagonist (and to be frank, that could still be BB or Shanks) for the War, you can see that theres just plenty left for Oda to cover before or at Laugh Tale.
