This thread is probably going to get a lot of hate, but I feel it's a discussion we should be having as we get closer to the EoS. I'd say the worst "bias" I'll probably have here is towards Shanks as a character, but I think I've stayed pretty safe when it comes to the future PK and WSS matchups in general.
Anyway, one thing to consider: I'm only talking about known characters obviously. Whatever happens between Egghead and Laugh Tale and beyond is anyone's guess. Obviously, we don't know of there's some Underworld or Elbaf villain separate from anyone we know for example. So while I cover Egghead now, I can't really do the same logically for the rest, unless we assume some things about the next few arcs.
1. Getting the first controversial opinion out of the way: Egghead.
Luffy vs Kizaru: Hot topic this week but I feel that you only need to understand 1 simple rule in this series: Luffy faces the strongest opponent in the arc. If Kizaru is an antagonist, and if there is no one stronger than Kizaru, then its extremely likely this is a Luffy fight. Can Zoro clash with him? Of course, just as he did with Kaido and several other main antagonists in the past. I just think it's plainly obvious what happens if Kizaru ends up being the antagonist.
Zoro vs Kuma: This one is a bit harder to get people convinced, but consider 2 things: Zoro had one of his biggest moments in the series due to Kuma and the fact is, that he never truly defeated Kuma. Kuma's powers in fact are, in a way, a direct counter to Zoro's fighting style. Having Zoro actually surpass Kuma's broken reflection powers could be a next step over King. Is AdCoC enough to directly bypass a paramecia power? We know BB is the only person who can strictly cancel DF powers. There's also the question of Kuma's allegiance. Imo, he's not going to be bad, but Zoro may need to "rescue" him from some type of control or programming. We'll see how that goes down.
2. Since we don't know directly what the next arcs truly are (personally speculated to be Beehive, Elbaf and/or Lodedtar, but who truly knows), I'm just going to jump to Laugh Tale. But to point out, I consider Shanks and BB two sides of a coin that does 1 of 2 things: Either will serve as the final antagonist before One Piece or the actual final antagonist for the end of series. I do not believe the series directly ends against the Marines or WG. They ofc play a huge role will be there in the climax, but Blackbeard and Shanks are ultimately what matter most.
Luffy vs Blackbeard OR Shanks: Now consider that there may be ample time between Egghead and Laugh Tale for this matchup to have buildup, but with Shanks going after One Piece now, and Whitebeard telling Blackbeard he wont be the one to find One Piece, carry the true history on his back, and fight the WG, leads me to believe either Yonko will be fought at Laugh Tale as the final block to PK.
For the Luffy vs Shanks argument, it's pretty simple. Luffy defeats Shanks before "returning" the hat and becoming PK signifying he surpassed his idol. This makes sense because Shanks is confirmed to be going after the treasure now. Now as for "why", my argument is that there's just simply way too little we know about him. His odd interactions with unlikely people, his hidden motivations and actions that make you question his intentions. Then there is the sheer capacity of his haki and feats pulled off by his character in the story.
For the Luffy vs Blackbeard argument, he's actively looking to steal Road Poneglyphs from Law, who should have 2 or 3. Luffy and BB are polar opposites and as with WBs speech, will essentially fight to lead the D. Clan to take down the world's oppressors (though in BBs case, he'd just be the new oppressor).
B. Zoro vs Shiryu or Beckman: Obvious outcome. Now, Shiryu is partially the reason why I think BB is going down first, primarily because Mihawk exists and Shiryu does not have a black blade. I won't assume though that he's not a powerhouse, I just struggle to see how he's Zoro's last fight. Beckman personally works IF Shanks is going down earlier and not later. If Shanks goes down later as the final battle, then I think Mihawk needs to be Zoro's matchup simply because he and Shanks have history and what Mihawk represents for Zoro as the WSS.
Again, whichever Yonko doesn't fall at Laugh Tale, the other may be the final antagonist considering what the represent for the MC. It depends on what is done by Laugh Tale.
3. Final War machups with the Marines and WG. These imo are the simplest, especially if Kizaru is handled at Egghead.
Luffy vs Akainu and Im: Akainu is pretty obvious. It doesnt make sense with the amount of plot buildup. Now, Im is an assumption though, based in potential strength of the Gorosei and this being a shonen. Wont spend too much time on this one.
Zoro vs Fujitora and Ghandi: Commensurate with Luffy's fights, these work the best base on what is left. Fuji being a swordsman, and Ghandi having Shodai Kitetsu, which may link back to Wano and even him recognizing traits of Zoro when compared to Ryuuma or someone else, really can support this.
4. Yes, I think there's one more fight after the final war, at potentially God Valley. And yes, these would be the surviving Yonko that did not fall at Laugh Tale. In either case, Shanks and BB both have arguments because of their ties to the island: Shanks was found there by Roger after the incident and BB has loose ties to Rocks in his own way (mainly due to his ship's name and speculation on that)
As for Luffy's merit with both, we know the reasons why at this point, and whomever isn't fought before he's PK will have a larger presence on the endgame.
Zoro's side is a bit more interesting however. I think, regardless of the route that's gone, Mihawk must be the fight that is directly associated to Zoro. This means either making Shiryu or Beckman irrelevant, or having them fight someone else.
Personally, I believe more in the "Blackbeard first, Shanks last" route, but who knows. There's also the possibility that yes, Shanks isn't fought directly, which changes things up significantly. But I think it's ultimately important to consider something: Mihawk genuinely has no other direct history or connection to anyone save for Shanks. He's (currently) not allied to the government or Marines and is in fact, hunting them. If Mihawk is 100% Zoro's last fight, it puts into question where Mihawks relevancy will ultimately be important, because Zoro vs Mihawk is all but guaranteed to be the 2nd to last fight in the series (obvious Luffy will get the last one).
As Kaido said, "Haki conquers all", which is why I think the series may end with these 2 powerhouses in a primarily haki based battle.
Tldr:
There are 4-5 more major fights for Luffy and Zoro (assuming there aren't surprise fights between Egghead-Laugh Tale, which there might be) and those are:
- Luffy vs Kizaru
- Luffy vs Blackbeard or Shanks
- Luffy vs Akainu
- Luffy vs Im
- Luffy vs Blackbeard or Shanks
- Zoro vs Kuma
- Zoro vs Shiryu or Beckman
- Zoro vs Fujitora
- Zoro vs Ghandi
- Zoro vs Mihawk (in placement of either Shiryu or Beckman)
Some tags (not many too lazy tbh):
Anyway, one thing to consider: I'm only talking about known characters obviously. Whatever happens between Egghead and Laugh Tale and beyond is anyone's guess. Obviously, we don't know of there's some Underworld or Elbaf villain separate from anyone we know for example. So while I cover Egghead now, I can't really do the same logically for the rest, unless we assume some things about the next few arcs.
1. Getting the first controversial opinion out of the way: Egghead.
Luffy vs Kizaru: Hot topic this week but I feel that you only need to understand 1 simple rule in this series: Luffy faces the strongest opponent in the arc. If Kizaru is an antagonist, and if there is no one stronger than Kizaru, then its extremely likely this is a Luffy fight. Can Zoro clash with him? Of course, just as he did with Kaido and several other main antagonists in the past. I just think it's plainly obvious what happens if Kizaru ends up being the antagonist.
Zoro vs Kuma: This one is a bit harder to get people convinced, but consider 2 things: Zoro had one of his biggest moments in the series due to Kuma and the fact is, that he never truly defeated Kuma. Kuma's powers in fact are, in a way, a direct counter to Zoro's fighting style. Having Zoro actually surpass Kuma's broken reflection powers could be a next step over King. Is AdCoC enough to directly bypass a paramecia power? We know BB is the only person who can strictly cancel DF powers. There's also the question of Kuma's allegiance. Imo, he's not going to be bad, but Zoro may need to "rescue" him from some type of control or programming. We'll see how that goes down.
2. Since we don't know directly what the next arcs truly are (personally speculated to be Beehive, Elbaf and/or Lodedtar, but who truly knows), I'm just going to jump to Laugh Tale. But to point out, I consider Shanks and BB two sides of a coin that does 1 of 2 things: Either will serve as the final antagonist before One Piece or the actual final antagonist for the end of series. I do not believe the series directly ends against the Marines or WG. They ofc play a huge role will be there in the climax, but Blackbeard and Shanks are ultimately what matter most.
Luffy vs Blackbeard OR Shanks: Now consider that there may be ample time between Egghead and Laugh Tale for this matchup to have buildup, but with Shanks going after One Piece now, and Whitebeard telling Blackbeard he wont be the one to find One Piece, carry the true history on his back, and fight the WG, leads me to believe either Yonko will be fought at Laugh Tale as the final block to PK.
For the Luffy vs Shanks argument, it's pretty simple. Luffy defeats Shanks before "returning" the hat and becoming PK signifying he surpassed his idol. This makes sense because Shanks is confirmed to be going after the treasure now. Now as for "why", my argument is that there's just simply way too little we know about him. His odd interactions with unlikely people, his hidden motivations and actions that make you question his intentions. Then there is the sheer capacity of his haki and feats pulled off by his character in the story.
For the Luffy vs Blackbeard argument, he's actively looking to steal Road Poneglyphs from Law, who should have 2 or 3. Luffy and BB are polar opposites and as with WBs speech, will essentially fight to lead the D. Clan to take down the world's oppressors (though in BBs case, he'd just be the new oppressor).
B. Zoro vs Shiryu or Beckman: Obvious outcome. Now, Shiryu is partially the reason why I think BB is going down first, primarily because Mihawk exists and Shiryu does not have a black blade. I won't assume though that he's not a powerhouse, I just struggle to see how he's Zoro's last fight. Beckman personally works IF Shanks is going down earlier and not later. If Shanks goes down later as the final battle, then I think Mihawk needs to be Zoro's matchup simply because he and Shanks have history and what Mihawk represents for Zoro as the WSS.
Again, whichever Yonko doesn't fall at Laugh Tale, the other may be the final antagonist considering what the represent for the MC. It depends on what is done by Laugh Tale.
3. Final War machups with the Marines and WG. These imo are the simplest, especially if Kizaru is handled at Egghead.
Luffy vs Akainu and Im: Akainu is pretty obvious. It doesnt make sense with the amount of plot buildup. Now, Im is an assumption though, based in potential strength of the Gorosei and this being a shonen. Wont spend too much time on this one.
Zoro vs Fujitora and Ghandi: Commensurate with Luffy's fights, these work the best base on what is left. Fuji being a swordsman, and Ghandi having Shodai Kitetsu, which may link back to Wano and even him recognizing traits of Zoro when compared to Ryuuma or someone else, really can support this.
4. Yes, I think there's one more fight after the final war, at potentially God Valley. And yes, these would be the surviving Yonko that did not fall at Laugh Tale. In either case, Shanks and BB both have arguments because of their ties to the island: Shanks was found there by Roger after the incident and BB has loose ties to Rocks in his own way (mainly due to his ship's name and speculation on that)
As for Luffy's merit with both, we know the reasons why at this point, and whomever isn't fought before he's PK will have a larger presence on the endgame.
Zoro's side is a bit more interesting however. I think, regardless of the route that's gone, Mihawk must be the fight that is directly associated to Zoro. This means either making Shiryu or Beckman irrelevant, or having them fight someone else.
Personally, I believe more in the "Blackbeard first, Shanks last" route, but who knows. There's also the possibility that yes, Shanks isn't fought directly, which changes things up significantly. But I think it's ultimately important to consider something: Mihawk genuinely has no other direct history or connection to anyone save for Shanks. He's (currently) not allied to the government or Marines and is in fact, hunting them. If Mihawk is 100% Zoro's last fight, it puts into question where Mihawks relevancy will ultimately be important, because Zoro vs Mihawk is all but guaranteed to be the 2nd to last fight in the series (obvious Luffy will get the last one).
As Kaido said, "Haki conquers all", which is why I think the series may end with these 2 powerhouses in a primarily haki based battle.
Tldr:
There are 4-5 more major fights for Luffy and Zoro (assuming there aren't surprise fights between Egghead-Laugh Tale, which there might be) and those are:
- Luffy vs Kizaru
- Luffy vs Blackbeard or Shanks
- Luffy vs Akainu
- Luffy vs Im
- Luffy vs Blackbeard or Shanks
- Zoro vs Kuma
- Zoro vs Shiryu or Beckman
- Zoro vs Fujitora
- Zoro vs Ghandi
- Zoro vs Mihawk (in placement of either Shiryu or Beckman)
Post automatically merged:
Some tags (not many too lazy tbh):
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