General & Others If you were writing for One Piece how would you write Kaido and Big Mom?

#21
You want Mihawk to die? :myman: Imagine Franky hitting Mihawk instead of Big Mom, would he survive? :catsure:
You know the reality of the situation?
Not in a million years would Oda embarrass Mihawk by getting biked by Franky.
That's the difference between irrelevant turds like Big Mom and Kaido, and a real respectful God Tier character like Mihawk.
Post automatically merged:

Do you guys think that you can make better characters than oda?:kayneshrug::kayneshrug::kayneshrug::kayneshrug:
Yes
 
#22
You know the reality of the situation?
Not in a million years would Oda embarrass Mihawk by getting biked by Franky.
That's the difference between irrelevant turds like Big Mom and Kaido, and a real respectful God Tier character like Mihawk.
Sure, but he wouldn't even survive it :suresure: Big Mom's skin is extremely tough and Mihawk doesn't have that :myman:
 
#23
Sure, but he wouldn't even survive it :suresure: Big Mom's skin is extremely tough and Mihawk doesn't have that :myman:
Not really, it would maybe tickle Mihawk a little.
Zoro who has survived town level attack from Fujitora, that made a 100 meter deep bedrock tunnel and in the ground and got crushed by it

Got kicked a kilometer in the air by a giant
Survived internal torture enough to K.O Luffy

And Mihawk can't survive a fucking bike? You realize the power a bike carries is not even 1/10000th of the power that Fujitora's bedrock shattering Gravity and getting crushed by it would generate right?

Or getting kneed in the gut by 80 meter tall giant who can lift a battle ship and then some.

Bruh Big Mom is complete ass, she got tagged by fucking Franky, by fucking Franky while she is not retarded, not many people are tryna attack her. What is the excuse? Yonkou are weak as fuck and Mihawk shits on all of them?
 
#24
Sorry if I tagged you and you don't give AF! Lol

Well, let's get one thing out of the way first: Big Mom is a masterfully well-written character in comparison to the mess that is Kaido. I plan on doing larger posts on this in the future, but I'll give some thoughts on Kaido for now.

For Kaido, I would almost scrap everything about him. Literally.

Personality: Kaido is an inconsistent mess who's only consistency is how inconsistent he is. On the one hand, he is screaming at his men to stop Big Mom from entering Wano at all costs, and the next he is demanding they remove her seastone cuffs so that he can kill her in a fair 1v1 fight himself (like wut?). 795 Kaido was eager for death and actively sought ways to kill himself for fun, but Wano Kaido shits himself at the very idea of experiencing pain in any form and very much does not seem like he wants to die at all. Kaido claims that he wants to go to war with the entire World Government and Wano, but visibly shits himself at the very idea of Oden's scabbards picking a fight with him. Kaido spends 50% of his panel time being drunk, which gives him an even more inconsistent personality on top of how messily inconsistent his character is already. He is someone who is both terrified of a good fight, while also spending his life seeking out the largest scale war imaginable.

This character is one of the shittiest I've ever seen in terms of his personality, and there is nothing to like about him whatsoever because his personality changes into its polar opposite form every other panel.

How would I change this? Consistency is a start. Either Kaido needs to be a fearless Warmonger who eagerly fights Big Mom as soon as she enters Wano instead of begging his subordinates to protect him, or he needs to be a consistent coward who doesn't take Big Mom's handcuffs off because he's terrified at the idea of fighting her. Kaido should not fear pain, he should actively seek out opportunities to die as he was introduced. His first action when he saw Big Mom, should've been to present his neck to her in hopes that she could actually behead him and end his boring existence. Once she fails, then that should be when Kaido fights her himself because that would fit his adrenaline-seeking nature that exists half of the time.

Drunkenness is not an excuse for shit-tier consistency. Drunkenness should amplify Kaido's most extreme traits, not remove them entirely for the sake of gags. Drunken Kaido should be even more eager for a fight. He should be even more violent and impulsive. He shouldn't be shitting his pants at the idea of fighting the scabbards if his actual goal is to start a war on the largest possible scale. Being drunk is when people reveal who they truly are, and by drawing Kaido as a coward when he's drunk, the message Oda is sending is that Kaido is actually a coward deep down, and him starting a war with the entire World is just a sober facade. Which, of course, makes absolutely no sense unless of course Oda truly does want us to see Kaido as a coward instead of the adrenaline-junky-war-monger that Kaido was introduced as.

There are many more changes I would make but these are just some examples.

Motivations: Kaido's motivations are literally as generic as they get, on the rare occasion that he actually decides to show a consistent motivation and character. Kaido's motivation, is that he wants to destroy the world. I wish I was making that up because it's a simplistic motivation even for children's stories and far too simple for a story as nuanced as One Piece, but Oda really thought that the Arc he's been hyping for 8 years needed a villain with literally the most generic and forgettable possible motivation.

How would I change this: If you're going to give Kaido the most generic and un-nuanced motivation possible, there at least needs to be an understandable, rational backstory that justifies this. How about making Kaido the opposite to Oden? Oden travels the world and sees it's beauty and thus wants to open the borders to Wano to let the "beauty" in, but Kaido travels the world and sees how terrible it is (getting captured, death sentences, etc) and so he resolves to destroy the world and keep the borders to Wano shut so all of the "evil" can't get in. This may be what Oda is going for but we haven't gotten to Kaido's backstory yet because Oda is interested in far more...."important" plotlines like how Kinemon found the baby pig, Oden dancing throughout the streets of Wano for no reason whatsoever, Big Mom's makeup getting ruined via a face-fucking by a motorcycle, etc.

Design: Kaido's design is lazy, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his character (it's hard to make a design that contributes to your character when you have no character whatsoever so I get it). Let's use Doflamingo for example:
Doflamingo's design is meant to exemplify his flamboyant personality, which is a result of his World Noble upbringing which leads him to believe that he is superior to everyone else. He wears an extravagant feather coat which simultaneously shows his self-assurance and charisma while also emphasizing the riches he has earned from his underworld business. His manipulative personality is also complemented by his manipulative Devil Fruit which literally lets him turn people into his puppets, and his Devil Fruit also contributes to his secondary "spider" theme, as Oda gives Doflamingo both primary and secondary animal themes which emphasizes his "hidden" nature to the rest of the world. Doflamingo's primary animal theme being the Flamingo (emphasizing his extravagance and flamboyance) and his perception to the people of Dressrosa was that of a loving king, but his secondary and more hidden theme is the Spider (which emphasizes his manipulative, blood-sucking character) with his true nature being that of a psychotic manipulator.

Doflamingo's design contributes to his character in every way, and his Devil Fruit, Personality, and Design have been made in conjunction with one another to illustrate who Doflamingo is on several metaphorical levels. Doflamingo is not the only character Oda does this with, but he is a nice quick example.

Now let's look at Kaido's design.

Okay so...I'm not even sure what Kaido's design even is first of all. Doflamingo is meant to look like an extremely successful drug-dealer, which is basically what he is in One Piece lol. Kaido is meant to look like...a big muscular man? I mean seriously, wtf even is he? And how does his design contribute to his character?

The rope Kaido is wearing around his waste is called a "Makuuchi" which is apparently a belt worn in Sumo Culture, which has nothing to do with Kaido or his established character so far. A Makuuchi can also be used to symbolize a "sacred" object, but again this has had no relevance to Kaido so far. Kaido is also wearing a shide which is used in Shinto rituals which...I won't go into here, but based on my research, again this has nothing whatsoever to do with Kaido, other than the fact that Kaido has an attack named "Divine Thunder" for what thus far appears to be no reason whatsoever. Again, compare this to Doflamingo who is wearing a stylish button-up shirt meant to emphasize his stylish personality, unbuttoned to show his charisma. See how Doffy's design contributes to his character and Kaido's doesn't?

Kaido's Dragon Devil Fruit (presumably) serves the purpose of emphasizing...what aspects of Kaido's personality exactly? Dragons in mythology are meant to be wise, immortal beings. Kaido might be immortal, but he is far from wise, being consistently out-smarted and having spent his entire life pretty much failing at every serious goal he's ever attempted. He's got a skull tattoo which emphasizes that he wants to die but...again like I mentioned above, he only wanted to die in Chapter 795 and we've never seen this aspect of his personality on display ever again. A Immortal Dragon who wants to die would actually be an interesting concept, which makes Kaido even shittier since this aspect of his personality seems to have been retconned into non-existence.

I'm so at a loss for words to explain what Kaido is even supposed to be, what aspects of his personality and character his design is meant to emphasize, and how his Devil Fruit is supposed to tie into all that that I really don't even know what to say. His design, is truly awful. And I mean that genuinely. Oda should be ashamed of himself on this one. Sure we don't know Kaido's exact backstory yet, but literally every minor detail we learned about Doflamingo, and it became clearer and clearer why Oda designed him the way he did and what the aspects of his design are supposed to represent. With Kaido, Wano is like 100 chapters now and we still have no idea who or what he is or how his design contributes to that.

How would I change this: Well, Kaido's design needs to better emphasize his personality and overall character, so his these things needs to be fixed before his design can. His Devil Fruit also needs to factor more into his personality more, and there are several ways to do this.

I love the idea in my head of Kaido being a Chopper-esque character, in that he's literally a Dragon who ate the Human Human Fruit (Mythical Model: Oni) which would both explain Kaido's immortality as well as explain why he's referenced as a creature and not as a human. I don't want to delve too deep into how I would fix this without fully knowing what Oda intends for Kaido and his backstory, I don't want to "fix" something that might not even be broken at all, but it's hard for me to imagine Oda salvaging this shitshow.

Some quick fixes: Get rid of the Makuuchi, or make sumo more relevant to Kaido's character right from the start. Make it more obvious why Kaido is supposed to be considered "sacred" (does Wano culture consider Dragon's sacred? Is Kaido the last Dragon which makes the people of Wano worship him? Religion has literally had nothing to do with Kaido and his character 100 chapters into Wano). Incorporate real aspects of Shinto-ism into Kaido's personality and actions, thus justifying the Shide that he is wearing.

Overall Kaido is shit-tier in every possible way, and I'm at a complete loss as to how Oda got him so wrong when I know Oda knows how to write a much better character than this. Just my humble opinion ofc lol.

Tagging some people that might be interested, and again I apologize if you don't care:

As soon as I saw the spoiler: text wall and clicked on it, I knew shit was getting real. You’ve nicely put it all together. Kaido’s inconsistency is his consistency.:cheers:
But having experienced so many near death experience by the hands of both Pirates and Marines and getting tortured for being an unkillable creature really could be the driving force behind his inconsistencies and the cause of his drinking problems. But you’ve already pointed it out too. Maybe Oda will explore his personality/ character during the final fights of Wano.

About Big Mom, she was still a great threat post Tea Party where she was using 2 Vinsmoke boys as a hand toy. But as soon as Weeeeddddiiinnngggg Caaaakkkeeeee started..:seriously: it was all downhill after that. Maybe the problem with her is her own strength. Oda made her so damn OP that he needs an excuse to keep her on check. He never should have brought her to Wano so early if he was just going to make more Big Meme out of her. Maybe the final war of Wano demands it but he could have just added Big Mom somewhere in between and not at the beginning of the arc.
 
#25
I agree with pretty much all that Admiral Lee said.
One thing I wanted to add though is that Kaido's character also suffers from having to share space with Orochi who despite his cowardice has the cunning and personal investment to make for a more interesting villain. It doesn't help to have Orochi basically come up with the plan to humiliate and trick Oden and the Kurozumi family basically saving Kaido's hide.
 
#26
Sorry if I tagged you and you don't give AF! Lol

Well, let's get one thing out of the way first: Big Mom is a masterfully well-written character in comparison to the mess that is Kaido. I plan on doing larger posts on this in the future, but I'll give some thoughts on Kaido for now.

For Kaido, I would almost scrap everything about him. Literally.

Personality: Kaido is an inconsistent mess who's only consistency is how inconsistent he is. On the one hand, he is screaming at his men to stop Big Mom from entering Wano at all costs, and the next he is demanding they remove her seastone cuffs so that he can kill her in a fair 1v1 fight himself (like wut?). 795 Kaido was eager for death and actively sought ways to kill himself for fun, but Wano Kaido shits himself at the very idea of experiencing pain in any form and very much does not seem like he wants to die at all. Kaido claims that he wants to go to war with the entire World Government and Wano, but visibly shits himself at the very idea of Oden's scabbards picking a fight with him. Kaido spends 50% of his panel time being drunk, which gives him an even more inconsistent personality on top of how messily inconsistent his character is already. He is someone who is both terrified of a good fight, while also spending his life seeking out the largest scale war imaginable.

This character is one of the shittiest I've ever seen in terms of his personality, and there is nothing to like about him whatsoever because his personality changes into its polar opposite form every other panel.

How would I change this? Consistency is a start. Either Kaido needs to be a fearless Warmonger who eagerly fights Big Mom as soon as she enters Wano instead of begging his subordinates to protect him, or he needs to be a consistent coward who doesn't take Big Mom's handcuffs off because he's terrified at the idea of fighting her. Kaido should not fear pain, he should actively seek out opportunities to die as he was introduced. His first action when he saw Big Mom, should've been to present his neck to her in hopes that she could actually behead him and end his boring existence. Once she fails, then that should be when Kaido fights her himself because that would fit his adrenaline-seeking nature that exists half of the time.

Drunkenness is not an excuse for shit-tier consistency. Drunkenness should amplify Kaido's most extreme traits, not remove them entirely for the sake of gags. Drunken Kaido should be even more eager for a fight. He should be even more violent and impulsive. He shouldn't be shitting his pants at the idea of fighting the scabbards if his actual goal is to start a war on the largest possible scale. Being drunk is when people reveal who they truly are, and by drawing Kaido as a coward when he's drunk, the message Oda is sending is that Kaido is actually a coward deep down, and him starting a war with the entire World is just a sober facade. Which, of course, makes absolutely no sense unless of course Oda truly does want us to see Kaido as a coward instead of the adrenaline-junky-war-monger that Kaido was introduced as.

There are many more changes I would make but these are just some examples.

Motivations: Kaido's motivations are literally as generic as they get, on the rare occasion that he actually decides to show a consistent motivation and character. Kaido's motivation, is that he wants to destroy the world. I wish I was making that up because it's a simplistic motivation even for children's stories and far too simple for a story as nuanced as One Piece, but Oda really thought that the Arc he's been hyping for 8 years needed a villain with literally the most generic and forgettable possible motivation.

How would I change this: If you're going to give Kaido the most generic and un-nuanced motivation possible, there at least needs to be an understandable, rational backstory that justifies this. How about making Kaido the opposite to Oden? Oden travels the world and sees it's beauty and thus wants to open the borders to Wano to let the "beauty" in, but Kaido travels the world and sees how terrible it is (getting captured, death sentences, etc) and so he resolves to destroy the world and keep the borders to Wano shut so all of the "evil" can't get in. This may be what Oda is going for but we haven't gotten to Kaido's backstory yet because Oda is interested in far more...."important" plotlines like how Kinemon found the baby pig, Oden dancing throughout the streets of Wano for no reason whatsoever, Big Mom's makeup getting ruined via a face-fucking by a motorcycle, etc.

Design: Kaido's design is lazy, uninspired, and has nothing to do with his character (it's hard to make a design that contributes to your character when you have no character whatsoever so I get it). Let's use Doflamingo for example:
Doflamingo's design is meant to exemplify his flamboyant personality, which is a result of his World Noble upbringing which leads him to believe that he is superior to everyone else. He wears an extravagant feather coat which simultaneously shows his self-assurance and charisma while also emphasizing the riches he has earned from his underworld business. His manipulative personality is also complemented by his manipulative Devil Fruit which literally lets him turn people into his puppets, and his Devil Fruit also contributes to his secondary "spider" theme, as Oda gives Doflamingo both primary and secondary animal themes which emphasizes his "hidden" nature to the rest of the world. Doflamingo's primary animal theme being the Flamingo (emphasizing his extravagance and flamboyance) and his perception to the people of Dressrosa was that of a loving king, but his secondary and more hidden theme is the Spider (which emphasizes his manipulative, blood-sucking character) with his true nature being that of a psychotic manipulator.

Doflamingo's design contributes to his character in every way, and his Devil Fruit, Personality, and Design have been made in conjunction with one another to illustrate who Doflamingo is on several metaphorical levels. Doflamingo is not the only character Oda does this with, but he is a nice quick example.

Now let's look at Kaido's design.

Okay so...I'm not even sure what Kaido's design even is first of all. Doflamingo is meant to look like an extremely successful drug-dealer, which is basically what he is in One Piece lol. Kaido is meant to look like...a big muscular man? I mean seriously, wtf even is he? And how does his design contribute to his character?

The rope Kaido is wearing around his waste is called a "Makuuchi" which is apparently a belt worn in Sumo Culture, which has nothing to do with Kaido or his established character so far. A Makuuchi can also be used to symbolize a "sacred" object, but again this has had no relevance to Kaido so far. Kaido is also wearing a shide which is used in Shinto rituals which...I won't go into here, but based on my research, again this has nothing whatsoever to do with Kaido, other than the fact that Kaido has an attack named "Divine Thunder" for what thus far appears to be no reason whatsoever. Again, compare this to Doflamingo who is wearing a stylish button-up shirt meant to emphasize his stylish personality, unbuttoned to show his charisma. See how Doffy's design contributes to his character and Kaido's doesn't?

Kaido's Dragon Devil Fruit (presumably) serves the purpose of emphasizing...what aspects of Kaido's personality exactly? Dragons in mythology are meant to be wise, immortal beings. Kaido might be immortal, but he is far from wise, being consistently out-smarted and having spent his entire life pretty much failing at every serious goal he's ever attempted. He's got a skull tattoo which emphasizes that he wants to die but...again like I mentioned above, he only wanted to die in Chapter 795 and we've never seen this aspect of his personality on display ever again. A Immortal Dragon who wants to die would actually be an interesting concept, which makes Kaido even shittier since this aspect of his personality seems to have been retconned into non-existence.

I'm so at a loss for words to explain what Kaido is even supposed to be, what aspects of his personality and character his design is meant to emphasize, and how his Devil Fruit is supposed to tie into all that that I really don't even know what to say. His design, is truly awful. And I mean that genuinely. Oda should be ashamed of himself on this one. Sure we don't know Kaido's exact backstory yet, but literally every minor detail we learned about Doflamingo, and it became clearer and clearer why Oda designed him the way he did and what the aspects of his design are supposed to represent. With Kaido, Wano is like 100 chapters now and we still have no idea who or what he is or how his design contributes to that.

How would I change this: Well, Kaido's design needs to better emphasize his personality and overall character, so his these things needs to be fixed before his design can. His Devil Fruit also needs to factor more into his personality more, and there are several ways to do this.

I love the idea in my head of Kaido being a Chopper-esque character, in that he's literally a Dragon who ate the Human Human Fruit (Mythical Model: Oni) which would both explain Kaido's immortality as well as explain why he's referenced as a creature and not as a human. I don't want to delve too deep into how I would fix this without fully knowing what Oda intends for Kaido and his backstory, I don't want to "fix" something that might not even be broken at all, but it's hard for me to imagine Oda salvaging this shitshow.

Some quick fixes: Get rid of the Makuuchi, or make sumo more relevant to Kaido's character right from the start. Make it more obvious why Kaido is supposed to be considered "sacred" (does Wano culture consider Dragon's sacred? Is Kaido the last Dragon which makes the people of Wano worship him? Religion has literally had nothing to do with Kaido and his character 100 chapters into Wano). Incorporate real aspects of Shinto-ism into Kaido's personality and actions, thus justifying the Shide that he is wearing.

Overall Kaido is shit-tier in every possible way, and I'm at a complete loss as to how Oda got him so wrong when I know Oda knows how to write a much better character than this. Just my humble opinion ofc lol.

Tagging some people that might be interested, and again I apologize if you don't care:

This is good post. I want warmonger Kaidou but what do i get :josad:
 
F

Fallen Prince

#27
I would make big mom s character little serious , prefer less amnesia plot and more into her schemes .

I would like to see noth yonko to be far more ruthless like killing innocents , ruthless pirates . Ghey need to show yonkos are class apart.
 
F

Fallen Prince

#29
I just read @Admiral Lee Hung i agree on his portrayal on kaido .

Chapter 795 was shown as big hype when kaido was shown to jump from sky island which is like 10000 meter from land . He was shown as person who was ready to die . This is not the same person we are seeing in wano , he seems to be dissed about past and his rivalry with oden this is actually fairly stupid plot imo .

Oda basically turned this arc from kaido the man who wants to die to kaido " pissed off because oden dissed him " , i am fairly disappointed generally because at time i feel oda has gone back to show his villains are just generic dbz fighters .

I might disagree with Admiral on design , Oda is really good in creating his character design . This is why i still like about this manga because villains looking cartoonish but bring their evil side is just creepy . Kaido 's character of oni fits the bill of wano theme because of whole story of momotaro folktale adds to it .

What clearly doesn't fit kaido is

1) His crew is more of a gangster than a pirate , his power structure more like fittest to survive so those who challenge his powerful set of disaster they take their position . I am not sure how kaido survived 20 year having this structure because it can always lead to infighting and no real loyalty . I feel big mom is fairly better in organizing her crew they nit together when there is real threat .

2) His characterization is deviated to " oden obsession" , frankly i find this oden thing really boring . I think it was nice touch for oda to add there was a samurai who could challenge an unthinkable beast but seriously Kaido to obsesses over and drink to his remorse is bad . Kaido challenges whitebeard , shanks , big mom in new world . Oden was just another challenger .

I think oda needs to stop oden hype around because he is destroying the yonko characterization . What i would have wanted is Kaido to respect oden as his equal back then but he is clearly way too strong now to think he still feel the pain and scar is opposite of what he really is . Kaido basically wants to die so " scabbard challenge " should be seen as inviting his challenge who wants to kill him .

Oda probably backtracked at some point , i am not sure because it does feel kaido is naturally scared to getting scratched ever again .

My genuine opinion is kaido is just "another formula " villain like Hody jones or Arlong .
 
#30
I just copy the master oda.

trolling bm and kaido

or else we wouldn't know how crazy and durable they are.not just have one shot attack brute strength.

imo oda is on the right track.

we knew luffy or oden durable since they keep getting smack and taking damages.
 
#32
The way kaido big mom look now has more to do with fan expectation
than the writer himself . he has made it clear characters are not immune to bullshit no matter how strong they are. Tho a certain portion of the fandom neglected that when these characters werent yonkos. perhaps now that yonkos are " shitty", they have a chance to reflect. Nothing bad about kaido and big mom at all. imo
 
F

Fallen Prince

#33
My regards on Big mom :

She is perhaps poorly written villain character imo even worse than kaido .

Her characterization is personified on Disney themed villains , it was fairly fun when big mom started off as villain who can be cruel to do her bidding but it becomes lame with "wedding cake " and "oshriku " stuff .

Let me list down why i think big mom is lame villain

1. It starts off with threat to Germa , i basically dont understand the point behind marriage about sanji , she could have got the technology even without vinsmoke massacre . Why would you killa guy who is competent on level of Vegapunk . The entire theme to massacare shows big mom has deep insecurity about rise in technology or she has personal grudge on judge which makes no sense why to bring sanji plot considering they could have just attacked Germa .

2. Amnesia plot : It was fun at beginning but to continue this plot spawn is just lame and stupid . If oda is serious about his villlain then i think he should abandon this , i find it hard big mom has no clue she has medical problem and no one has talked about it .

3. lame part is her durability :She could tank elderly grown ass giants in a village but gets kkocked off by likes of chopper , jinbei and franky is pure stupid .

Her whole characterization is just lame to me because she is not menacing like we saw back in fishman island . She is cartoon villain lol just back and enjoy this meme because oda doesnt give a f**k about it he knows he messed up big mom's character big time .

Conclusion : I feel oda is not sure where to put big mom in whole scheme of this war . I see lack of motive in big mom either because she seem to enjoy status queue of her being in power and afraid of new challenges .
 

Rosella.Fiamingo

Peerless In History
#34
Honestly, I think if Oda introduced Linlin as a fun loving and gaggish character that is utterly terrifying when she's actually serious or that the fact that she can be a gag and still be capable of walking through everyone and everything, I thin the fanbase wouldn't be so disappointed. The initial portrayal he gave her as a super twisted and serious character in addition to inflated expectations is why the fanbase doesn't like her.

I still like Linlin as a character and I'm actually interested in where Oda is going with all of this. If he doesn't resolve who she is as a character, is when I'll actually be angry again . I think that the whole thing Oda is trying to show is that Linlin even as the monster she is in regards to individual strength is still downright a kid stuck in a freaks body. She's pretty clumsy but that doesn't mean anything regarding her strength.

I actually think she is a well written character from an overall perspective in regards to having motivations, back story, interacting with the world around her and changing as the story progresses. For those who don't like her, theres nothing to salvage. I can sit here and write essays upon essays (which I have), they won't change their mind because theyre already set in what they think about her. Most of this website and the outspoken fandom is dominated by powerscalers and to many, having a character show any sign of weakness is an automatic L. Linlin has pretty much showed weakness in most panels she is part of so, nothing will convince them otherwise.

As for Kaido, I don't really care about him and find him rather boring. I don't care enough to think about how to write him better.
 
F

Fallen Prince

#36
I feel secondary villains in one piece are written better

Orochi
Queen
Kanjuro
Perospero

Even some of the Gifters and headliners like holdem looked more menancing than a yonko.

However some are just purely made for power scaling

King
Jack
Katakuri
-> They lack panel time .
 

Rosella.Fiamingo

Peerless In History
#37
My regards on Big mom :

She is perhaps poorly written villain character imo even worse than kaido .

Her characterization is personified on Disney themed villains , it was fairly fun when big mom started off as villain who can be cruel to do her bidding but it becomes lame with "wedding cake " and "oshriku " stuff .

Let me list down why i think big mom is lame villain

1. It starts off with threat to Germa , i basically dont understand the point behind marriage about sanji , she could have got the technology even without vinsmoke massacre . Why would you killa guy who is competent on level of Vegapunk . The entire theme to massacare shows big mom has deep insecurity about rise in technology or she has personal grudge on judge which makes no sense why to bring sanji plot considering they could have just attacked Germa .

2. Amnesia plot : It was fun at beginning but to continue this plot spawn is just lame and stupid . If oda is serious about his villlain then i think he should abandon this , i find it hard big mom has no clue she has medical problem and no one has talked about it .

3. lame part is her durability :She could tank elderly grown ass giants in a village but gets kkocked off by likes of chopper , jinbei and franky is pure stupid .

Her whole characterization is just lame to me because she is not menacing like we saw back in fishman island . She is cartoon villain lol just back and enjoy this meme because oda doesnt give a f**k about it he knows he messed up big mom's character big time .

Conclusion : I feel oda is not sure where to put big mom in whole scheme of this war . I see lack of motive in big mom either because she seem to enjoy status queue of her being in power and afraid of new challenges .
You have to disentangle moments you think she's weak in from how powerful she is in addition to how well she is written. She is legitimately one of Oda's better written character. I find most of Oda's characters very flat and boring but she is not. I'll address your points 1 by 1.

1. The whole thing about Linlin is that she does not trust anyone that is not her family. She'd been abandoned multiple times by people and feels like only her blood is worth trusting. She wants to kill Germa because she sniffed out that they were going to backstab her. She had no reason to trust an evil empire. In fact, it would be stupid for her to trust them. Her insecurity is about people lying to her or betraying her. It is made rather clear over and over that she is insecure about these things even to the point where she threatens to kill. her first son in Perospero if he dare lie to her.

2. The Amnesia plot in my opinion is only bad because Oda uses it as a plot device to save main characters rather than come up with better solutions. The Amnesia plot had a lot of potential for her to achieve some level of character growth and revert to her true personality before she was manipulated and groomed by Strusen. If he gave her Amnesia and had her explore other places without having to run into the strawhats or be a plot device, it would have been good growth for her character. I reiterate Amnesia is only bad because Oda decided to be lazy and use it for PIS and connivence .

3. I mean, what character do you see not falling over when run over by these machines? Kaido in the last chapter was shoved off a ledge by the scabbards. And you're once again misplacing a gag and attributing it to how strong she is or how she is characterized. She's a clumsy child at heart with moments of viciousness. I don't like that this happened but this says nothing about her as a character. Gag characters are not inherently bad characters if they're supposed to be strong. I'm starting to embrace this bullshit because if every villain is serious, brooding, unshakeable, you just have a boring story with 2 dimensional characters and villains.

Overall, I think you need to stop associating Villains with always being serious and menacing. She is very menacing when she chooses to be or in moments of seriousness but, she'd be a boring stereotype villain if thats all she was. I think it's worth mentioning that for Oda, the theme with the Yonko thus far WB, Linlin Kaido, is that they're not what the world thinks them to be. The World saw WB as this unmoveable monster only to find him a shell of himself and utterly pathetic. Linlin is shown to be this cruel witch but at her core shes just a kid with a twisted sense of self because shes been groomed and manipulated since she was 5 and she has deep insecurity. I don't know what it is with Kaido but im sure we will learn.

Don't mistake Power level, Gags and how well characters are written. If you want I can go into far more detail as to why Linlin is actually one of the most complete and dynamic characters Oda has ever written.
 
F

Fallen Prince

#39
You have to disentangle moments you think she's weak in from how powerful she is in addition to how well she is written. She is legitimately one of Oda's better written character. I find most of Oda's characters very flat and boring but she is not. I'll address your points 1 by 1.

1. The whole thing about Linlin is that she does not trust anyone that is not her family. She'd been abandoned multiple times by people and feels like only her blood is worth trusting. She wants to kill Germa because she sniffed out that they were going to backstab her. She had no reason to trust an evil empire. In fact, it would be stupid for her to trust them. Her insecurity is about people lying to her or betraying her. It is made rather clear over and over that she is insecure about these things even to the point where she threatens to kill. her first son in Perospero if he dare lie to her.

2. The Amnesia plot in my opinion is only bad because Oda uses it as a plot device to save main characters rather than come up with better solutions. The Amnesia plot had a lot of potential for her to achieve some level of character growth and revert to her true personality before she was manipulated and groomed by Strusen. If he gave her Amnesia and had her explore other places without having to run into the strawhats or be a plot device, it would have been good growth for her character. I reiterate Amnesia is only bad because Oda decided to be lazy and use it for PIS and connivence .

3. I mean, what character do you see not falling over when run over by these machines? Kaido in the last chapter was shoved off a ledge by the scabbards. And you're once again misplacing a gag and attributing it to how strong she is or how she is characterized. She's a clumsy child at heart with moments of viciousness. I don't like that this happened but this says nothing about her as a character. Gag characters are not inherently bad characters if they're supposed to be strong. I'm starting to embrace this bullshit because if every villain is serious, brooding, unshakeable, you just have a boring story with 2 dimensional characters and villains.

Overall, I think you need to stop associating Villains with always being serious and menacing. She is very menacing when she chooses to be or in moments of seriousness but, she'd be a boring stereotype villain if thats all she was. I think it's worth mentioning that for Oda, the theme with the Yonko thus far WB, Linlin Kaido, is that they're not what the world thinks them to be. The World saw WB as this unmoveable monster only to find him a shell of himself and utterly pathetic. Linlin is shown to be this cruel witch but at her core shes just a kid with a twisted sense of self because shes been groomed and manipulated since she was 5 and she has deep insecurity. I don't know what it is with Kaido but im sure we will learn.

Don't mistake Power level, Gags and how well characters are written. If you want I can go into far more detail as to why Linlin is actually one of the most complete and dynamic characters Oda has ever written.
I mean the whole point of assasination lacks proper motive.

She did not assasinate bege and other people when they became allies.

Judge was willing to work with her and to create assasination plot was a hype to show big mom is cruel. There is not much thinking into this.

Germa pretty much took risk of leaving world govt to join her so there was no chance judge would have betrayed her. I feel the whole plot is pretty childish and only dehypes big mom could have dealt germa in many ways .

I feel oda disappointed big mom's characterization in many way. I am fairly okay with child attributes with villain but big mom seriously lack action as in a villain should be.

I pointed out her dreams about pirate king is a huge red flag . I feel she joined with kaido to stop luffy from rising to power because she remembered how roger did same thing.

I am not sure what is her role in war. Is she secondary villain or just hurdle to luffys growth.Its clear luffy s main hurdle is to challenge kaido and oda is going to use big mom as path on his growth.

I dont think she is a villain from her actions so far , i am not sure what she wants from this war. Thats why i see difference from the person who was introduced in fishman and now.

I feel oda is conflicted with big moms character he doesnt know how to end her story because her sympathetic past and her current resolve dont match. He decided to stop caring about it .
 
#40
When i leave the battledome discussions and read WCI/Wano in bulk alone, i must admit that Big Meme's characterization is far more enjoyable than half of the cast there. Problem is how you perceive BM because Oda intends to establish her as the funny old Meme hag that gets joked around strawhats but admittedly she still holds massive amounts of plot relevance as one of the stakeholders.

It's as if Oda's flexing on us saying: "i can make gag scenes fuck your whole powerscaling shit up, yeah this my story bitch"

If you sold your soul to feat analysis then you will never like BM. IMO, BM doing meme things is actually a plus for her character, that's coming for me who always bashed her (to bait Rossie). Even her flashback/story has a more interesting lore than Kaido's, one of the reasons why BM would outlive him in Wano.

If Kaido was weak or wasn't special among top tiers, i don't even know what other attributes he possesses that could make him likable. People are telling us to wait, but we're already 70+ chapters in his arc without major character development.
 
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