It has nothing to do with whether good guys kill or not. It has everything to do with if their established as the type of character who does kill, and their character arc is setting them on a path to do just that. Zoro killing a regular dragon means fuck all in comparison to decapitating an actual person. Luffy killed tons of animals on Ruskaina during the Timeskip. Doesn't mean Oda is going to have him punch Blackbeards head off. And nobody would ever expect him to do that, because his character arc is not set towards that path. But apparently, that don't matter for Zoro for some God knows what reason. Why establish and build that up from a narrative standpoint. Joe Schmoe the editor said maybe we will get a new story of someone decapitating an Eastern Dragon in a magazine, so Zoro is going to kill Kaido.
You have your phrase scrambled: Killing a dragon means fucking all to the people of Wano. They worship a sword for pulling that shit off. So you know... it's probably a good thing to show them as they're lifting their hopes and dreams into the sky while anticipating brutal slavery. If you're going to keep trying to push the fact that Kaido is a guy who ate a dragon fruit, I'll keep reminding you that the entire point is that he's depicted as a dragon and that's the crux of the reference. Zoro's not going to kill him in human mode, that would then have nothing to do with the legend of Ryuma and it would be impossible for the people to see from the ground. Kaido turns into a huge animal with a very detailed head and a super long body that essentially resembles his neck. That's the point.
Luffy killed animals? What are you talking about lol. You mean the animals he ate? Not really the same thing, but now that you mention it he did help Zoro kill the one dragon and they ate it later. He probably won't eat Kaido but maybe that killing part was an allusion to something? I don't know, Oda hates recreating moments and calling back but maybe.
You have your phrase scrambled: Killing a dragon means fucking all to the people of Wano. They worship a sword for pulling that shit off. So you know... it's probably a good thing to show them as they're lifting their hopes and dreams into the sky while anticipating brutal slavery. If you're going to keep trying to push the fact that Kaido is a guy who ate a dragon fruit, I'll keep reminding you that the entire point is that he's depicted as a dragon and that's the entire point of the reference. Zoro's not going to kill him in human mode, that would then have nothing to do with the legend of Ryuma and it would be impossible for the people to see from the ground. Kaido turns into a huge animal with a very detailed head and a super long body that essentially resembles his neck. That's the point.
Luffy killed animals? What are you talking about lol. You mean the animals he ate? Not really the same thing, but now that you mention it he did help Zoro kill the one dragon and they ate it later. He probably won't eat Kaido but maybe that killing part was an allusion to something? I don't know, Oda hates recreating moments and calling back but maybe.
What are you even talking about. It don't matter if symbolically Zoro would be "killing a Dragon.". The people of Wano knows Kaido isn't just a Dragon. The readers know Kaido isn't just a Dragon. The reports from CP0 wouldn't be "Zoro of the Straw Hats cut off the head of a Dragon". Kaido isn't just some Dragon. Just because he has a Devil Fruit wouldn't change the fact that Zoro killed an actual person. Which again, goes completely against the character arc of the Straw Hats, which has been well established for over 1000 chapters with zero indications in the narrative that suggest its going to take a different path. That's not something any half decent author just slaps in the story out of the blue. It would be something Oda would have been building upon for a long time.
If that was the path Oda had been pushing for Zoro, I'd have no issues with ZKK.
What are you even talking about. It don't matter if symbolically Zoro would be "killing a Dragon.". The people of Wano knows Kaido isn't just a Dragon. The readers know Kaido isn't just a Dragon. The reports from CP0 wouldn't be "Zoro of the Straw Hats cut off the head of a Dragon". Kaido isn't just some Dragon. Just because he has a Devil Fruit wouldn't change the fact that Zoro killed an actual person. Which again, goes completely against the character arc of the Straw Hats, which has been well established for over 1000 chapters with zero indications in the narrative that suggest its going to take a different path. That's not something any half decent author just slaps in the story out of the blue. It would be something Oda would have been building upon for a long time.
If that was the path Oda had been pushing for Zoro, I'd have no issues with ZKK.
if paralleling ryuma is what they want, then it was already happened when Zoro slice King's Dragon flame attack,
whatever the fck that was.
Also the Oni thing they claimed, as if kaido's Race has already been labeled oni, we still didn't even know what race him and yamato belong to. Oni in japan means yokai a demon, the beast pirates as a whole can be labeled demons, because of their looks specially smile users who have very demonic features.
Kaido was known as a yonko the strongest beast , he is not just a dragon, and killing him after he lost the battle was un necessary specially from a protagonist,
"But he needs to be killed he will come back as a threat" lol shouldn't you also be saying this for Bigmom? that's not how most shonens work, Killing an enemy is required if that's the only way to beat his ass.
but Luffy doesn't kill and he still needs to beat the first ever yonko he tried to oust.
if he beats him, no Protagonist will gonna kill him, other than an enemy
So I’m a Zoro fan who believes in the theory and if it fails I won’t really mind much, but I feel like if it does the haters will be in shambles. Like the hate for the theory is so intense mainly cause of hardcore Zoro fans that people ignore the possibility. I’m just thinking that if it does happen the haters are gonna take a harder hit than the supporters cause Zoro has already done more than enough this arc We have eaten already.
I've seen liars. But never have I seen liars like this.
Zoro fans will be absolutely broken if ZKK doesn't happen. That's is literally the only thing they have going for them. They are holding on to hope with everything they have left.
Zoro couldn't hurt Kaido in any meaningful way
Zoro needed Enma to decide to activate or he would have lost
Zoro is dying from fighting the weakest YC1
Wano was supposed to be Zoro's arc and he has taken nothing but L's.
And we are supposed to believe Zoro fans just aren't gunna care?
What are you even talking about. It don't matter if symbolically Zoro would be "killing a Dragon.". The people of Wano knows Kaido isn't just a Dragon. The readers know Kaido isn't just a Dragon. The reports from CP0 wouldn't be "Zoro of the Straw Hats cut off the head of a Dragon". Kaido isn't just some Dragon. Just because he has a Devil Fruit wouldn't change the fact that Zoro killed an actual person. Which again, goes completely against the character arc of the Straw Hats, which has been well established for over 1000 chapters with zero indications in the narrative that suggest its going to take a different path. That's not something any half decent author just slaps in the story out of the blue. It would be something Oda would have been building upon for a long time.
If that was the path Oda had been pushing for Zoro, I'd have no issues with ZKK.
The reason I didn't say "just a dragon" is because that's not what any of us are saying, lol. If he was just a man then it wouldn't have a reference in the series. If he was just a dragon then he wouldn't actually be an oppressor. Remember the oppression?
A regular dragon isn't taking slaves or holding public executions, and a regular man doesn't hold the symbolism of an unbeatable creature. Kaido is both.
Oda beats this shit into the ground man. Just like how he repeats the idea of the characters representing guardian deities.
Kaido is both seen as a guardian deity and a corruption of the idea. He himself asks Yamato to take over this role in his place but spoiler, it'll obviously be Momo whether Yamato stays or not. He's the Kozuki shogun and a dragon himself. Oda went out of his way to give him this power and have Kaido remark that they don't need two dragons.
But somehow you miss Oda hammering this all in, so we'll go back to the ideas of repetition and symbolism.
If you're saying we see what isn't there, I can only laugh.
More like a theme of identity i'd say which has been a fairly rigorous trend in WCI and WANO
especially in wano its more of a exploring one's identity in contrast to embracing it like portrayed with Katakuri, pudding etc
in wano ( Onigashima) the theme of identity is tagged with a role, a mission, a fate truly..
Momo - - >>identity crises - - - >>Shogun
Sanji - - >>identity crises (ambiguity of competency and efficiency as a Warrior of science or a flawed human) - - - >> whatever helps Luffy and expects of him.
Yamato - - - - >> identity crises (Oden 7_7) - - - >> yet to be resolved (most likely gonna ditch the idea)
in Zoro's case it isn't even a crises its just straight up "that nikka look like someone ik"
but surely it has a purpose to innt exactly why the lack of build up between kaido and Zoro doesn't make sense for zkk
is there a problem with there being barley any build up or just mediocre incentive at best ? i mean yea i admit the idea of zoro's stature exponentially increasing and him coming out as contemporary incarnation of Ryuma is fascinating as all hell but it depends on how it is executed or whether or not that should be the case.. what if the Ryuma fate is being the "King" and not slaying the dragon.. which sits well with how identity crises has been handled in Onigashima .. where the fate or goals of the individuals that got depicted in the theme are more so a set of ultimate conclusions they reached after internal reconciliation that requires consistent commitment towards the conclusion they reached ( Like Being a Shogun, being useful to Luffy as chef etc) in a same lane of thought even if its not a crises but the correlation of Ryuma being the King and zoro wanted to be WSS is what requires consistent prolonged commitment to it which is intriguing.
it'd odd if they bought it up just recently just for zkk.. it could have been a foundation laid in the beginning of Wano giving more substance to Zkk but i don't think so
Well, I think the point is that Zoro is unaware of his fate as has been suggested in the VCs, the mags, and even by Kawamatsu/Hyogoro in the manga.
Zoro doesn't know that he is [probably] a Shimotsuki. He doesn't know that he has a connection with Wano and its lore since centuries ago. What I see is that Oda is building Zoro up to unintentionally become one of the primary saviors of Wano alongside Luffy by having him act in accordance with Ryuma.
Besides, if ZKK were to happen, I would expect the effect that Oda is looking for to be complete shock. If it was supposed to be obvious to the casual reader that Zoro was going to do it, it would not have nearly the same effect.
The other issue is, part of the reason that ZKK is plausible (or at the very least, another confrontation between Zoro and Kaido) is because of unfinished business Zoro has in Wano:
1. Black blades
2. Shimotsuki lineage
3. "Monster samurai"
You might say that these things don't have to be resolved in Wano. However, we've been TOLD about them in Wano, even multiple times, and they are hardly relevant outside of Wano. If you [or someone] doesn't believe these things will be rectified in Wano, then would you even believe in ZKK if the hints had been spoonfed to us?
Think about it this way: if Zoro had declared time and time again that he would be the one to kill Kaido, if Zoro had expressed so much pent up anger towards Kaido, would that really change anything? If anything, Zoro would be treated in the community like the people who mocked Kid fans for thinking Kid would actually do something major against Kaido based on the sole fact that Kid said he would.
So ultimately, my point is this:
1. In my interpretation of ZKK, it is meant to be a shocking event that is not predictable to the casual reader
2. Zoro has unfinished business in Wano, and Kaido is the only antagonist left. Kaido is even involved in 2 of the 3 orders of business I mentioned
3. Zoro having more overt conflict with Kaido wouldn't have changed anything in the grand scheme of things when considering how convincing ZKK is to people who don't believe in it in the first place
the rest of the point are debatable i'd say.. like alot of detail about sanji was unveiled in Wano with the ground work being in WCI.. oda might pull something similar given the pacing of the arcs..
an overt conflict seems unlikely but it being purely being zoro vs Kaido and not more nuanced is unlikely given Luffy, sanji and the SHP are on stand by
granted Luffy falls what impression would it make if zoro solos kaido just seem bizarre given his condition.. again a group battle seems more probable and it makes up for the lack of tension and basis as well in the main story
again the monster samurai thing is hanging still.. there is a logical psrt to it and a narrative one
Logical is that A dead kaido ain't gonna acknowledge zoro
narrative is that.. either its the scar and Kaido implicit "admission" or there is just barely any tension between them to be any further development on that
Yeah, I don't really care about what happened before the main time line of the story. That is nowhere near enough to offset how Oda has established the Straw Hats from a narrative standpoint for almost 25 years.
If Oda wanted people to believe ZKK was a real possibility, he would have been moving Zoros character down that path all throughout Timeskip. Literally nothing about his Character arc in over 1000 chapters lead to it being believable that he would do something like cutting off someone's head on panel.
I'd send out a wellness check for Oda. You don't spend over 20 years establishing that your MCs aren't killers, only to all of a sudden have one of them decapitate someone out of the blue, and end their life. That's not how you write a story.
Literally nothing about his Character arc in over 1000 chapters lead to it being believable that he would do something like cutting off someone's head on panel.
I'd send out a wellness check for Oda. You don't spend over 20 years establishing that your MCs aren't killers, only to all of a sudden have one of them decapitate someone out of the blue, and end their life. That's not how you write a story.
Zoro fans will be absolutely broken if ZKK doesn't happen. That's is literally the only thing they have going for them. They are holding on to hope with everything they have left.
Zoro couldn't hurt Kaido in any meaningful way
Zoro needed Enma to decide to activate or he would have lost
Zoro is dying from fighting the weakest YC1
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
