@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung To be fair, I think One Piece has always had an underlaying chosen one narrative throughout it's story, so this whole git good genetics gimmick does not hit One Piece characters as hard as it does characters in stories that originally had a "hard work" ethic theme like Dragon Ball or Naruto.
Current Events Is One Piece Turning Into Naruto? Does Conqueror’s Haki Ruin Zoro?
- Thread starter Elder Lee Hung
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Imho it's not that you need CoC to be on the top, it's just those who have CoC are there, because they are usually driven to be on the top. For what we know, Garp doesn't have CoC, Admirals neither (it can change tho) and they are still top tiers and that old dude from Ace's flashback (I heard that he is canon) is not someone great or famous.
Wait, CoC makes people FATED to be important?
Chinjao? Ace? They are important?
what about the people who are fated to be important WITHOUT CoC like shirahoshi?
and what about people who are important but do not have CoC? Like the admirals and such
where are you getting “fated” to be important when it comes CoC?
Chinjao? Ace? They are important?
what about the people who are fated to be important WITHOUT CoC like shirahoshi?
and what about people who are important but do not have CoC? Like the admirals and such
where are you getting “fated” to be important when it comes CoC?
Kaido, Shanks, WB, Roger, Sengoku, Big Mom and probably Dragon are all top tiers.Perhaps even Akainu, Garp and Mihawk have CoC. Is it just by pure chance?
Basically anybody important has it and they had it since their birth.
The few one that couldn't reach the pinnacle of the world were crushed by other conquerors. Chinjao was defeated by Garp, Ace is dead (and he was loyal to WB), something probably happened between Doflamingo and Kaido and Katakuri was loyal to his mother. The latter was freed by Luffy so he might even become a Top Tier before the EOS.
Some ambitions are just stronger than the others.
If you don't fall under a stronger-willed conqueror, is it because of one of your qualities or because it was written in your fate?
If it's just fate, it is kind of fine but very depressing. If you are not a conqueror you have to hope to get a powerful DF, train like hell and even then you might be just a strong underling of an emperor. Sanji is obviously going to show it too at some point, and i hate it.
At least we have Kizaru
Basically anybody important has it and they had it since their birth.
The few one that couldn't reach the pinnacle of the world were crushed by other conquerors. Chinjao was defeated by Garp, Ace is dead (and he was loyal to WB), something probably happened between Doflamingo and Kaido and Katakuri was loyal to his mother. The latter was freed by Luffy so he might even become a Top Tier before the EOS.
Some ambitions are just stronger than the others.
If you don't fall under a stronger-willed conqueror, is it because of one of your qualities or because it was written in your fate?
If it's just fate, it is kind of fine but very depressing. If you are not a conqueror you have to hope to get a powerful DF, train like hell and even then you might be just a strong underling of an emperor. Sanji is obviously going to show it too at some point, and i hate it.
At least we have Kizaru
CoC doesn't really ruin his character, it just solidifies him more since he's always possessed such qualities to begin with.
Natural Leader.
Insane will.
Being able to overpowerer others.
Etc...
However, if it's revealed that he indeed comes form a strong lineage, I.e. Ryuma or Shimotsuki, it could potentially "ruin" him in the sense you're talking about.
I would still eat that shit up though.
Natural Leader.
Insane will.
Being able to overpowerer others.
Etc...
However, if it's revealed that he indeed comes form a strong lineage, I.e. Ryuma or Shimotsuki, it could potentially "ruin" him in the sense you're talking about.
I would still eat that shit up though.
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Luffy has a strong as fuck grandfather, likely strong as fuck father, and I would bet he is distantly related to Joy Boy as well.
Does that undermine his journey to surpass Roger because he has powerful family and "special" genetics?
Zoro is still the same guy that worked his ass of 24/7 when he was not drinking or sleeping throughout this entire journey. He, just like all the other people with CoC in the past, just happens to be the character that is fit for CoC Haki. That's it. To be frank I am happy Asura seems to be JUST Haki and not some bullshit like him being a half-demon or a world government experiment gone wrong.
Basically no I don't think Zoro having CoC devalues him as a character. And to be frank I suspect that plenty of people who will claim so will only do it, so they can of downplay his achievements throughout the series even though they would have NEVER said the same shit about any of the other CoC users.
Does that undermine his journey to surpass Roger because he has powerful family and "special" genetics?
Zoro is still the same guy that worked his ass of 24/7 when he was not drinking or sleeping throughout this entire journey. He, just like all the other people with CoC in the past, just happens to be the character that is fit for CoC Haki. That's it. To be frank I am happy Asura seems to be JUST Haki and not some bullshit like him being a half-demon or a world government experiment gone wrong.
Basically no I don't think Zoro having CoC devalues him as a character. And to be frank I suspect that plenty of people who will claim so will only do it, so they can of downplay his achievements throughout the series even though they would have NEVER said the same shit about any of the other CoC users.
I feel like Oda's entire COC philosophy goes against the 'Chosen One' stock standard shonen trope. We have Chinjao saying it's actually pretty common and many COC users are subordinates to someone instead of being Chosen Ones in their own right. Katakuri, Zoro, Sengoku and Doffy spring to mind.
The signs have always been there for Zoro having COC, they've only been getting more and more blatant with a single glare from Zoro scaring away Urashima. The parallels with Rayleigh, the fact that Zoro ticks every box mentioned by Chinjao for having it, and the fact that ambition has always been Zoro's defining trait. I have many criticisms of OP and the JoyBoy saviour plotline, but I think the point of COC is that anyone, even a deckhand on Roger's ship, to an ordinary kid from East Blue, can have the willpower of kings.
The signs have always been there for Zoro having COC, they've only been getting more and more blatant with a single glare from Zoro scaring away Urashima. The parallels with Rayleigh, the fact that Zoro ticks every box mentioned by Chinjao for having it, and the fact that ambition has always been Zoro's defining trait. I have many criticisms of OP and the JoyBoy saviour plotline, but I think the point of COC is that anyone, even a deckhand on Roger's ship, to an ordinary kid from East Blue, can have the willpower of kings.
You got Naruto who is a hard-working kid that wants to become a Hokage and faced many hardships along the way, the same goes for Zoro, he trained and faced many different enemies along the way, show good leadership and charisma, strong willpower, etc. Naruto got huge power-ups to win against strong enemies, nothing wrong with that. It's just a classic Shounen cliche. Having CoC won't regressed Zoro as a character by any means since he's already proven that he earned it by beating his enemies and having valuable traits. What makes One Piece to be like Naruto is forced parallels, for example, Naruto - Kakashi - Jiraiya, Sasuke - Obito - Orochimaru, Sakura - Rin - Tsunade, Luffy - Roger - Joyboy, Zoro - Rayleigh - Ryuma, something along those lines.
As you said "When Naruto starts out, it was a series about an untalented child working hard to attain an impossible dream, “to become a Hokage.”, that never was the case in OP.
Luffy was, and still is, a outlier. He defeated 2 shichibukai and participated Marineford War at 17. That said, Luffy is one of the least deus ex machina protagonists [no inner demon or magic transformation to win] and had multiple losses during the series, specially during Thriller Bark/Marineford period (fluke win against Moria, lost to Sentoumaru/Kizaru, lost to Magellan once and had to flee the second time, got beaten by Smoker/Admirals/Other big players in Marineford).
What happened in Naruto was pure shit, because Naruto should have been the underdog during the manga (even though he won/tied every single fight except orochimaru), but became pretty much anime Jesus.
Luffy was, and still is, a outlier. He defeated 2 shichibukai and participated Marineford War at 17. That said, Luffy is one of the least deus ex machina protagonists [no inner demon or magic transformation to win] and had multiple losses during the series, specially during Thriller Bark/Marineford period (fluke win against Moria, lost to Sentoumaru/Kizaru, lost to Magellan once and had to flee the second time, got beaten by Smoker/Admirals/Other big players in Marineford).
What happened in Naruto was pure shit, because Naruto should have been the underdog during the manga (even though he won/tied every single fight except orochimaru), but became pretty much anime Jesus.
Does Conqueror’s Haki ruin Zoro? No it doesn't.
Does being born a conqueror undermine all of Zoro’s hard work? No it doesn't.
Why? Because it just like what Rayleigh said, Haosoku Haki is only as strong as the user. So if anything, for Zoro to have a strong Haosoku Haki means that he's strong and that all of his struggles towards achieving his dreams has started to pay off.
Does being born a conqueror undermine all of Zoro’s hard work? No it doesn't.
Why? Because it just like what Rayleigh said, Haosoku Haki is only as strong as the user. So if anything, for Zoro to have a strong Haosoku Haki means that he's strong and that all of his struggles towards achieving his dreams has started to pay off.
