Is there anything more broken?

D

Dragomir

#22
The arrows make every stand OP

I would have loved to see King Crismson Requiem. A shit ton of hax guarantee

This one is also hax af but game only : The World Over Heaven : a 10x times hax the World

https://jojo.fandom.com/wiki/The_World_Over_Heaven
Damn, holy crap.
The World Over Heaven gains the new signature godlike power to overwrite reality, allowing DIO to rewrite virtually anything in time. The potential extent of this ability appears to be limitless, as this power can be used to rewrite the existence of anything he wants, steal/absorb souls and use them as slaves, heal himself, resurrect the dead and completely negate almost any defense that the series has to offer (as demonstrated against the abilities of Tusk ACT4 and Gold Experience Requiem). However, this power is eventually revealed to suffer from a major limitation: it can only be initiated through The World Over Heaven's fists, meaning that the Stand would have to punch something in order to rewrite it. Even after absorbing the Saint's Corpse, he still needs his fists intact
@Admiral Lee Hung do you think the DC and Marvel Comics would beat this? That limitation of having to punch something might hinder it badly tho.
 
#23
Damn, holy crap.

@Admiral Lee Hung do you think the DC and Marvel Comics would beat this? That limitation of having to punch something might hinder it badly tho.
Marvel and DC would beat this badly. Mr. Myzlptk or whatever his name is from DC, is having math calculation of omnipotence by the power of 5 or something. Omnipotence multiplied by omnipotence five times, so even a god from a realm is like a regular human being to A. A (a god compared to god) is a regular human being to B. B is a regular human to D, and D is a regular human to Mr. Myzlptk.

Beyonder is an observer through a microscope who found a bacteria inside a water drop. That bacteria is earth, and the water drop is the entire Marvel Multiverse << with The One Above All - Thanos with Heart of Universe - Living Tribunal who can oneshot an omnipotent god ->> all as a part of that water drop. So top guys from Marvel and DC would no sell The World Over Heaven.
 
D

Dragomir

#25
Marvel and DC would beat this badly. Mr. Myzlptk or whatever his name is from DC, is having math calculation of omnipotence by the power of 5 or something. Omnipotence multiplied by omnipotence five times, so even a god from a realm is like a regular human being to A. A (a god compared to god) is a regular human being to B. B is a regular human to D, and D is a regular human to Mr. Myzlptk.

Beyonder is an observer through a microscope who found a bacteria inside a water drop. That bacteria is earth, and the water drop is the entire Marvel Multiverse << with The One Above All - Thanos with Heart of Universe - Living Tribunal who can oneshot an omnipotent god ->> all as a part of that water drop. So top guys from Marvel and DC would no sell The World Over Heaven.
How...is this...even possible?

So out of sheer curiosity, who's the strongest character in each verse?
 
#26
How...is this...even possible?

So out of sheer curiosity, who's the strongest character in each verse?
Its the fruit of having nothing better to do i guess, so each author wants to one-up the previous author in powerlevel. Its just like our OP battledome lol. I dunno who the strongest is since it changes everytime. Sometimes it's TOAA (Stan Lee himself?) or The Presence (DC Owner himself?) sometimes its Beyonder from Marvel and Thought Robot Superman (a superman version who can decide the comic plot, whatever) etc etc.

Beyonder had killed Death one time. In effect, every omnipotent god lose their ability to kill anything even crush a little flower. Beyonder found it silly so he resurrect Death again.

Whatevs.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
#27
Umineko is probably the most broken verse I'm reasonably familiar with.

Umineko mid tiers (at best) can neg Jojo and most verses most people here can think of.

Destroying infinitely nested multiverses is cool and all (I will get to that later), but first let's talk about some real hax.

Dlanor A. Knox, Head Inquisitor of Heresy of the Eiserne Jungfrau.


She has a weapon called the Red Key. Well, I'll just let Vs Battles explain it.
Vs Battles said:
The Red Key: A weapon for emergencies used by official Inquisitors of Heresy belonging to Eiserne Jungfrau. Dlanor's primary weapon. Unlike a normal weapon, whose purpose is to cause physical damage, this special tool is known as a conceptual weapon, and it is used to deny the existence of concepts.
Defense is Impossible,
evasion is impossible,
buying time is impossible.
The ultimate conceptual weapon is the embodiment of these three impossibilities. A strict investigation by the Great Court of Heaven is required for the use of the Red Key.
Because of this, the very act of dispatching Dlanor, who arms herself with it, is equivalent to a death sentence.
The Red Key is a weapon that destroys on the conceptual level and for which defense is an impossibility. It may be considered a weaponised of the Red Truth (which Dlanor can also use):
Vs Battles said:
Red Truth: Irrefutable, objective truth that needs no evidence or proof to demonstrate its validity.
In essence, the Red Truth takes an unobserved possibility existing alongside infinitely many and asserts it as the ultimate truth, being capable of completely denying an opponent's existence, body and soul, and sending them to the depths of oblivion without hope of recovery. However, it is impossible to lie (Essentially trying to deny the validity of a wave function that has already been collapsed) using this technique, and one can find gaps, semantic loopholes and different interpretations even in statements spoken in red, potentially allowing them to counterattack with an argument of their own, though the Red Truth itself remains unrefuted.
Dlanor is herself a conceptual being and the manifestation of Knox's 3 Laws.

Well, now for some stats:
Attack Potency:
Low Complex Multiverse level (Manifested in a higher order world on Beatrice's game board above the the physical world, which is stated to include 5-dimensional space and a realm existing further beyond)
| At least Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the Meta-World, a higher realm of existence from which the entire Human Domain is regarded as fiction and its inhabitants are seen as pieces laid on a chessboard, their fates and lives merely small fragments which can be manipulated and physically interacted with even by normal humans inhabiting this perspective. This includes structures such as the Underside of the Chessboard, a void of nothingness completely beyond space and time which resides "nowhere" in relation to the entire world of the pieces) to Hyperverse level (Killed multiple Theory Goats in the Golden Land. Exists as a natural resident of Heaven, which lies on a far higher plane of existence than Beatrice's territory)
| Outerverse level (Manifested within the City of Books, which exists above the entirety of the World of Witches and its infinite higher realms of existence)

Speed: Immeasurable (Dlanor transcended the concept of speed and distance in her battle with Battler) | Irrelevant

Lifting Strength: Immeasurable (Dwarfs Kakera, as they are just small objects to her) | Irrelevant

Striking Strength: At least Complex Multiversal to Hyperversal | Irrelevant

Durability: At least Complex Multiverse level to Hyperverse level | Outerverse level, higher as part of Ange's world (Her existence is sustained by Ange and ensured by her golden truth, thus being completely invulnerable to even attacks coming from the likes of Bernkastel, who failed to kill her despite repeated attempts to deny her existence with the Red Truth)

Stamina: Infinite (Does not physically tire) | Inexhaustible (In the meta-world, physical stamina is irrelevant)

Range: Complex Multiversal | Complex Multiversal to Hyperversal | Outerversal
Speed, durability, lifting strength, striking strength, etc. most of these stats are not relevant when you're playing in the same league as beings like Dlanor; Umineko witches are beyond such mundane concepts.


I chose Dlanor because she's at best a mid tier in the grand scheme of things in Umineko. Umineko high tiers like Lambdadelta (Witch of Certainty) and Bernkastel (Witch of Miracles) are even more formidable.

Lambdadelta:



Vs Battles said:
Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Manifested in the City of Books, where her casual fight against Bernkastel created several Big Bangs and Big Crunches that damaged shelves capable of containing countless stories, with Umineko as a whole being only one of them and repeatedly described as "short" in comparision to some of the tales contained there. Exists in a state of eternal evolution through the layers of the sea of fragments, constantly ascending to higher and higher realms until she eventually becomes merges with The Creator) | At least Outerverse level+ (Exists as a purely abstract, universal law that permeates and influences all realms and kakera that reside in the background of the Sea of Fragments, and collectively sustains the World of Witches and the higher domain above it, both of which are infinitely-layered realities, alongside the rules embodied by other Voyagers)

Speed: Immeasurable | Irrelevant | Omnipresence (As a Voyager, she is a conceptual entity who exists across countless worlds as the concept of hard workers)

Lifting Strength: Immeasurable | Irrelevant | Irrelevant

Striking Strength: Hyperversal | Outerversal (Her clashes with Bernkastel created countless Big Bangs and Big Crunches on the scale of the City of Books) | Outerversal+

Durability: Hyperverse level | Outerverse level | Outerverse level+

Stamina: Limitless. She has fought with Bernkastel for centuries and spent just as long, if not longer, trying to escape the "hell" of a logic error.

Range: Outerversal to Outerversal+ (She destroyed sizeable portions of the shelves within the City of Books that dwarf her and Universes of this size. In fact, she also dwarfs Universes of this size, as to her perspective, these worlds are no more than books no larger or complex than those residing in the human world. Comparable to Bernkastel, who was planning to send Erika into the deepest parts of the Sea of Oblivion which is beyond all layers, stories and dimensions, which she eventually did) | Outerversal+
This is Lambdadelta's true Voyager form:


In her true form, she exists beyond time, space, cause and effect, fate, existence and non existence, possibility and impossibility. She's a concept that permeates all the infinite possibilities, worlds and realms.

These are some abilities Lamdadelta has (I left out the more mundane ones):
  • True Godly (Voyager Witch abilities)
    • Omnipresence
    • Abstract Existence
      • Type 1. Voyager Witches embody concepts that extend through the entire Witch's Domain, like how Lambdadelta embodies the concept of Hard Workers)
      • Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
    • Reactive Evolution and Adaptation
      • All of the higher layers exist on the background of the Sea of Nothingness, and the beings of the higher layers may exists directly within this sea, and they adapt to the pressure due to mental and spiritual evolution),
    • Acausality
      • (Type 5. Exists outside the concept of Fate, Possibilities, Space-Time and Causality),
      • Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.
    • Regeneration
      • (High-Godly. Even if the entirety of her existence is completely erased and lost to the Sea of Nothingness beyond all layers and stories, she can regain her form just by thinking),
      • High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying concept(s) or information needed for them to exist.
    • Absorption
      • (Voyager Witches can absorb each other)
      • The other Voyager witches are as ridiculous as her
    • Nonexistent Physiology
      • (Type 2. Exists as an entity of nothingness at the core of her being, with her physical form being constructed and defined solely by her thoughts),
      • 2: Idealistic Nonexistence: The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level. Such a state defies even the most basic logical principles and is unknowable in the truest form, as it is not a state at all. Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence.
    • Immortality
      • Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 and 9.
      • The death of her manifestation is meaningless to her in True Form and is reliant on a concept as a Voyager Witch
      • 9: Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed.
    • Large Size (Type 10)
      • Type 10 (Higher-Order): Characters larger than a conventional multiverse, having size equivalent to higher infinities.
    • Transduality (Type 1)
      • Beyond existence and nonexistence
      • Beyond possibility (and impossibility?)
  • Mere Godly:
    • Higher-Dimensional Existence
    • Higher-Dimensional Manipulation
      • Can manipulate Kakera, which contain infinite possibilities and higher dimensions
    • Plot Manipulation
    • Probability Manipulation
      • Kakeras are like books and works of fiction to beings of the Higher Worlds, and by using them to create worlds, the world's events and fate is set in stone.
      • Much stronger than beings who can manipulate the fate, plots, possibilities and space-time of Kakera. An expert at finding incredibly improbable Kakera.
    • BFR
    • Incorporeality
    • Conceptual Manipulation
      • Can manipulate the voids of nothingness of Kakera, as well as it's conceptual, mental and spiritual realms.
      • Lives in the Higher World, were the concepts of fate and possibilities are vizualized in the form of Kakera, which she can manipulate.
      • Can think concepts into existence
    • Time Stop
      • Of such a scale that even beings that exist outside of the concepts of space and time are still bound due to her higher dimensional powers
    • Power Nullification
      • Can revoke the titles of other witches
    • Power Bestowal
      • By turning others into witches.
      • Turned Battler into the Endless Sorcerer
    • Witches are generally conceptual beings and have absolute dominion over a concept, so being able to revoke and grant the title of a witch is pretty impressive. Think of her being able to make someone an outerversal level deity or take away that power from someone.
    • Witches exist above an infinite hierarchy.
  • True Broken
  • Mere Broken
  • Notable Mundane

Like of the people on this forum, maybe only @Admiral Lee Hung (The One Above All from Marvel and the Presence from DC Comics), @Midnight Delight (Suggsverse probably has other Outerversal+ beings), and maybe @Sentinel could name a character that can compare to Lambdadelta.


A Umineko top tier like Featherine Augustus Aurora has a strong argument for being the most powerful character in all fiction ("The Creator" is a greater existence, but it is not meaningfully a character). I'm not even going to bother listing her stats here.


Anyway, to answer @Dragomir's question Golden Experience Requiem does not even compare to a standard witch ability like the Red Truths (absolute irrefutable truths, a Red Truth that says Giorno is dead just kills him instantly, GER be damned. It's an absolute irrefutable truth), or a mid tier's ability like the Red Key (completely destroys on a conceptual level, transcending causality, rendering evasion, defence, buying time, etc. all impossible).

It has nothing on beings for whom the concepts "striking strength", "lifting strength", "range", etc. are irrelevant.

It has nothing on beings that are casually beyond such mundane concepts like distance, time and space or even more esoteric concepts like fate, cause and effect, existence and non existence, possibility and impossibility.

Nothing on beings that "exist as a purely abstract universal law that permeates and influences all realms".


@Akai2, @Cao Cao, @playa4321, @Owl Ki, @uyuu, @RayanOO.
 
Last edited:
#28
A Umineko top tier like Featherine Augustus Aurora have a strong argument for being the most powerful character in all fiction. I'm not even going to bother listing her stats here.
The creator is the most strongest being in the Umineko verse which is comparable to TOAA and The Writer.

But yes, Featherine comes close being the most powerful character in all fiction. She's hella op.

and maybe @Sentinel could name a character that can compare to Lambdadelta
This verse could be comparable to the Umineko verse, although it's very hard to just find a verse which is even a bit comparable to Umineko.
The Elder Scrolls would be my next guess but I guess this doesn't count since TES is not a manga/anime/novel whatever?

Anyway, I do not know the individual characters there but I heard (from @Cao Cao) that this verse is hella powerful with outerversal characters with good chunks of hax and so on.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
#30
The creator is the most strongest being in the Umineko verse which is comparable to TOAA and The Writer.
The Creator is more powerful, but it's not meaningfully a character IMO. It's the last stage of a Voyager Witch (Featherine is the one closest to it). Here's what Lambadelta said about it:
Lambdadelta said:
Beings that completely lost all restrictions, ... in exchange for obtaining everything, they lose even the restriction of their own 'meaning'... Even the notion of life and death disappears, even the meaning of their existence disappears, ... they reach the limits of the zero. Or fall. Crash. Crumble. Vanish like mist.
The Voyager Witches that become The Creator lose even their own identity.

The Umineko World seems larger than the Marvel World.

On Vs Battles:
  • 0
    • The Creator
    • Maria Ushiromiya (Untapped Potential)
      • She was destined to become The Creator
    • The Writer
  • High 1-A
    • Featherine Augustus Aurora
    • The Presence (The Divine Presence)
  • 1-A
    • Lambdadelta
    • Bernkastel
    • The One Above All
    • The Presence (Yahweh)
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#31
@Admiral Lee Hung do you think the DC and Marvel Comics would beat this? That limitation of having to punch something might hinder it badly tho.
It ultimately just depends on the scale that he can rewrite but that does sound very Hax lol. There are Marvel and DC character that can essentially do this but on a multiversal scale (literally there are characters in Marvel and DC who can destroy/create multiple universes by themselves).

So if this power has only ever been used on like people/non universal events in time, then there are still those who exceed it by a good margin.

Umineko is probably the most broken verse I'm reasonably familiar with.

Umineko mid tiers (at best) can neg Jojo and most verses most people here can think of.

Destroying infinitely nested multiverses is cool and all (I will get to that later), but first let's talk about some real hax.

Dlanor A. Knox, Head Inquisitor of Heresy of the Eiserne Jungfrau.


She has a weapon called the Red Key. Well, I'll just let Vs Battles explain it.


The Red Key is a weapon that destroys on the conceptual level and for which defense is an impossibility. It may be considered a weaponised of the Red Truth (which Dlanor can also use):


Dlanor is herself a conceptual being and the manifestation of Knox's 3 Laws.

Well, now for some stats:

Speed, durability, lifting strength, striking strength, etc. most of these stats are not relevant when you're playing in the same league as beings like Dlanor; Umineko witches are beyond such mundane concepts.

I chose Dlanor because she's at best a mid tier in the grand scheme of things in Umineko. Umineko high tiers like Lambdadelta (Witch of Certainty) and Bernkastel (Witch of Miracles) are even more formidable:


This is Lambdadelta's true Voyager form:


In her true form, she exists beyond time, space, cause and effect, fate, existence and non existence. She's a concept that permeates all the infinite possibilities, worlds and realms.

These are some abilities Lamdadelta has (I left out the more mundane ones):

Like of the people on this forum, maybe only @Admiral Lee Hung (The One Above All from Marvel and the Presence from DC Comics), @Midnight Delight (Suggsverse probably has other Outerversal+ beings), and maybe @Sentinel could name a character that can compare to Lambdadelta.


A Umineko top tier like Featherine Augustus Aurora have a strong argument for being the most powerful character in all fiction. I'm not even going to bother listing her stats here.


Anyway, to answer @Dragomir's question Golden Experience Requiem does not even compare to a standard witch ability like the Red Truths (absolute irrefutable truths, a Red Truth that says Giorno is dead just kills him instantly, GER be damned. It's an absolute irrefutable truth), or a mid tier's ability like the Red Key (completely destroys on a conceptual level, transcending causality, rendering evasion, defence, buying time, etc. all impossible).

It has nothing on beings for whom the concepts "striking strength", "lifting strength", "range", etc. are irrelevant.

It has nothing on beings that are casually beyond such mundane concepts like distance, time and space or even more esoteric concepts like fate, cause and effect, existence and non existence.

Nothing on beings that "exist as a purely abstract universal law that permeates and influences all realms".


@Akai2, @Cao Cao, @playa4321, @Owl Ki, @uyuu, @RayanOO.
This is what would qualify as truly OP, characters like these really cannot lose fights, lol.

So in Marvel, you obviously have The One Above All and The One Below All, both of whom are very boring imo but they are essentially unstoppable to everyone else in Marvel in the grand scheme of things. The One Below All in particular was said to have killed Galactus and Franklin Richards in one story, Galactus who’s power varies based on how well fed he is but when he’s fully fed, he is virtually unstoppable to basically everyone in Marvel minus OAA/OBA, the Living Tribunal, and debatably a few others. And Franklin Richards who basically has every power, lol.

In Marvel, characters like Eternity, Death, Lord Chaos, Master Order, the Celestials and Mad Celestials, are all characters who have high multiversal power levels at minimum, meaning they can destroy a large amount of universes and have power over time and space on a multiversal scale, and these are really just the tip of the ice berg.

I’m far less familiar with DC, but they have characters who are just as powerful. The Thought Robot is so powerful that he once perceived that he was a comic book character, that was fun lol. But they have other ridiculous characters like Darkseid, the Monitor and Anti-Monitor and many others.

I mainly read Thor comics so I’m very familiar with them lol. In Thor comics, outright high multiversal characters are very common. Just to give you an example, in the Devourer King storyline in 2019 (fucking amazing story), Thor throws Mjolnir across the Ten Realms as a flex. The Ten Realms are Ten Infinite Universes lol.




In recent Thor stories, Thor has become the All-Father which gives him access to the previous Odinforce, now Thorforce, and Thor is frequently referenced as being stronger than Odin now that he is the All-Father.

Odin is well known for having several nutty feats over the decades. Odin has had multiple battles with characters like Surtur and Seth where just the effects of their attacks have shaken the entire universe they’re taking place in. One of my favorite Odin feats, is that he once knocked previously mentioned (well-fed) Galactus out cold for several minutes with a headbut, and Galactus is virtually impossible to actually injure lol. Even characters with outerversal levels of power haven’t been able to actually injure Galactus before. He is a being who is as powerful as characters like Eternity and Death who have like, unlimited levels of power as far as I know.

Anyway, the point being that Thor himself is above Odin, and Thor is very powerful in Marvel but there are certainly characters in the dozens who eclipse him in strength lol.
Post automatically merged:

The Umineko World seems larger than the Marvel World.
I know nothing of Umimeko, but the Marvel verse as a whole is an infinite amount of infinite universes lol. You can’t get any larger.

Which makes characters like the Living Tribunal truly and absolutely infinite in power lol.
 
D

Dragomir

#33
I created this thread genuinely believing that there was nothing more broken than GER. So yeah, I think the question to this thread has been answered more than plenty haha. I appreciate the enlightenment @Cinera @Admiral Lee Hung @uyuu
it is used to deny the existence of concepts.
I mean...just what the hell?
Do we ignore that the Cthulhu Mythos exist?
Yeah, Azatoth and Yog Sothoth are Tier 0 characters.
Please don't tell me there are more of these OP characters lmao.
 
#35
I mainly read Thor comics so I’m very familiar with them lol. In Thor comics, outright high multiversal characters are very common. Just to give you an example, in the Devourer King storyline in 2019 (fucking amazing story), Thor throws Mjolnir across the Ten Realms as a flex. The Ten Realms are Ten Infinite Universes lol.
That's savage as fuck dude!

I know Thor isn't one of the strongest characters in Marvel but damn... That feat is impressive nevertheless.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#36
I know Thor isn't one of the strongest characters in Marvel but damn... That feat is impressive nevertheless.
In his current version he can give any characters short of outerversal ones trouble just scaling him from Odin lol. Knocking Galactus out cold is truly one of the most insane feats in Marvel. The amount of concentrated energy required to do that can probably obliterate hundreds of universes if not more lol.
 

Adam 🍎

Pretty Boy
#37
In his current version he can give any characters short of outerversal ones trouble just scaling him from Odin lol. Knocking Galactus out cold is truly one of the most insane feats in Marvel. The amount of concentrated energy required to do that can probably obliterate hundreds of universes if not more lol.
Yeah sure but Franklin Richards made Galactus his lackey
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
#38
I know nothing of Umimeko, but the Marvel verse as a whole is an infinite amount of infinite universes lol. You can’t get any larger.

Which makes characters like the Living Tribunal truly and absolutely infinite in power lol.
Umineko has a crazy cosmological hierarchy.

Here's an explanation of the power of the verse:
Vs Battles said:
The cosmic hierarchy of the When They Cry series (including Umineko and Higurashi) is based on perspective. The strength of an individual depends on the height of the realm/world/layer that it exists on. Anything (even infinity and violation of logic) within a lower layer is limited when comparing it with a higher layer.

Characters can have multiversal abilities (like Battler's Endless Nine) within their own layer of existence, but in the higher layer they are just characters or chess pieces from stories/books or chessboards. Stories of lower worlds (including all characters, universes, physical and spiritual realities, afterlives, mirror realms, pocket worlds, higher dimensions and all fates in linear time and even timeless events) are visualized as tiny crystals (called Kakeras/Fragments/Pieces). And even ordinary people (such as Rika) within a higher layer can literally move, merge and change these small kakeras with just their hands.

To higher layer beings these lower worlds are simply records of information. Some kakera may contain countless worlds, or endless worlds/kakeras can exists as a limited amount of regular matter of a higher layer (it is not actually physical matter, just visualized concepts, much like everything else in the higher worlds).

However, even higher beings and realms where they exist are just characters and stories to creatures from even higher layers. But these creatures are also limited compared to beings that are even higher.
The cosmic hierarchy of the When They Cry series (including Umineko and Higurashi) is based on perspective. The strength of an individual depends on the height of the realm/world/layer that it exists on. Anything (even infinity and violation of logic) within a lower layer is limited when comparing it with a higher layer.

Characters can have multiversal abilities (like Battler's Endless Nine) within their own layer of existence, but in the higher layer they are just characters or chess pieces from stories/books or chessboards. Stories of lower worlds (including all characters, universes, physical and spiritual realities, afterlives, mirror realms, pocket worlds, higher dimensions and all fates in linear time and even timeless events) are visualized as tiny crystals (called Kakeras/Fragments/Pieces). And even ordinary people (such as Rika) within a higher layer can literally move, merge and change these small kakeras with just their hands.

To higher layer beings these lower worlds are simply records of information. Some kakera may contain countless worlds, or endless worlds/kakeras can exists as a limited amount of regular matter of a higher layer (it is not actually physical matter, just visualized concepts, much like everything else in the higher worlds).

However, even higher beings and realms where they exist are just characters and stories to creatures from even higher layers. But these creatures are also limited compared to beings that are even higher. The upper world is an infinite hierarchical ladder. Outside of that ladder is the boundlessness that is the lack of even perspective, the status of the Creator (the identity of a being that reaches this status disappears completely, because it is not limited to even its own life, death, or anything else).

Outside of that ladder is the boundlessness that is the lack of even perspective, the status of the Creator (the identity of a being that reaches this status disappears completely, because it is not limited to even its own life, death, or anything else).
Below are some scans

On how powers interact with the infinite dimensional hierarchy:


Oblivion:


Transdual existence:


Cosmological hierachy:
\

There is an infinite cosmological hierarchy. Outside that hierarchy is the boundlessness that is the Creator.

Those who walk these hierarchy are the Voyagers (like Lambdadelta that I mentioned earlier).

Featherine is beyond them and has touched the boundary of the Creator, she was able to come back from it.

Detailed Umineko Cosmology

Human Domain
The Human Domain, or "Ningen Domain" (ニンゲンの域), is not just the domain of humans, but the domain of those tossed around by fate, the first Pole/Side. This includes humans, Yokai, ghosts, higher-dimensional beings, aliens, etc.

While the Humans don't have the power to create anything, they have the ground under their feet. This means that Humans don't need to actively define their existence (like higher order beings), and can go day to day without the fear of losing one's self. They also don't evolve through the layers of the Human Domain, as their only form of evolution is into a Higher Order being into the Witch Domain. Humans aren't even aware of the layers of their Domain or about the complexity of their reality, they are pretty much watching the shadows on the cave's wall without knowing of the existence of the fire behind them, or of the world outside of the cave.

As already mentioned, the superiority of the Domain of Witches over the Domain of Humans is compared with the superiority of the 3rd Domain over the Domain of Witches. Accordingly, they should have a similar internal structure. Then it is logical that the domain of humans should also be a similar hierarchy.



Higher Dimensions
As I've said previously in the introduction segment, in some cases layers themselves are divided into multiple dimensions, and this is something specific to the layers of the Human Domain. But before getting into that, I'll prove that those dimensions are quantifiably superior to lower ones, as according to the Wiki's standards.

So, not only is something from a higher dimension superior to something from a lower one, but it is to the point that even something infinite in a lower dimension would be non-existent for those in the higher dimension.

Is one of the “guardians (Jedas)” who monitor the immigration situation of their fellow “Ryūn people” who crossed the fifth dimension wall to live in the current world.

Is she a divine existence descended from a far higher dimension than the person world.

So in the Human Domain's layers, we got higher dimensions, and the hierarchy of layers would multiply the complexity of such things.

Complex Quantum Structures
I've mentioned previously the word "Catbox" without ever explaining it, but now it's the time to do that. A Catbox is a complex quantum structure based on the famous concept of Schrodinger's Cat.

By the way, the story I introduced this time introduces the difficult problem "Schroedinger's cat", which is well known in the world of quantum mechanics, with the poor writing skills of Dragon Knight 07.
"Is the cat in the box alive or dead?"
In front of you, there is a "box of cats" with unknown life or death. Inside this box, live and dead cats are sleeping "living and dead at the same time".


You probably know that sides of a die go from 1 to 6.
You can predict what number will come up when you throw a die, but with logic, you can find out that the most likely outcome is 7 when you throw two dice and 14 when you throw four.
Now, if we return to the starting point, the question is what is the average when you throw one die. Coming from what we figured out, several numbers are most likely to come out.
“The number that will most likely come out is 3,5”. There are probably quite a few people who will come up with that conclusion.
However, a die only has numbers from 1 to 6. In other words, it’s not possible to get 3,5. Probably, a die that has a side with 3,5 isn’t sold anywhere.
I guess some people will try to get close to 3,5 by throwing a die multiple times, but it’s “an average you get when you throw several dice”, not “a die”.
The numbers on the sides of dice are from 1 to 6, and the probability of getting each number exists at the “same time” equally.
Like in a game of odd and even, you put die into an opaque cup. What number will die inside a cup show?
I’d like to say it’s 3,5, but that number isn’t carved out on a die. Which means, there are 6 “worlds” inside a cup, each for one side of a die. This hypothesis of 6 worlds existing at the same time is called “Many-worlds theory” or “Everett’s theory” in quantum mechanics.
※This “Many-worlds theory” speaks about “probable worlds” that exist at the same time, not about SF stuff like on more Earth on the other side of the Moon… (In other words, it doesn’t mean that just because you can get any number out of 6, there are 6 different Earths in this world).
„~ Ryukishi07's working diary



The Catbox contains infinite Truths, here "truth" meaning universe. Those Truths take the form of Wave Functions and exist simultaneously at the same time, even if they contradict each other.

The concept of the Catbox is also called "Multi-Layered Worlds", which could hit back at the layered hierarchy of the Kakera contents.

Japanese version:
...You forgetting, miss. Multi-layered World Contraction. The power of an Endless Witch paired with the power of a Finite Witch. Only an Endless Witch can realize it, and it is the most powerful effect on Endless Witches.

Multiple Catboxes exists throughout all of 07th Expansion, like Beatrice's Catbox, Bernkastel's, or Hanyuu's.

A higher narrative dimension
There seems to be a higher dimension above the normal ones where the story of the human world is stopped, and Pieces of Higher Beings can fight using abilities such as Red or Blue Truth. Normal beings aren't aware of the existence of this higher dimension.


The World of the Yokai
Yokai are spiritual beings, and as such, they exist in a different world to that of normal humans called the Spirit World, which is a different dimension to that.


Renoir and the worlds of fiction
Renoir of the Artroom is a Yokai that hunts by taking his victims into the worlds of the paintings in the Artroom. His power, to dive into 2-D (2-D from the normal world's perspective, as we'll see soon) is a power of the Gods, of the Higer-Order Beings, as Humans can't travel those fictional layers.

The main way Renoir uses his powers is through paintings, which, while they appear 2-D, they actually have their own multi-dimensional world based on the painting... like the non-euclidean world of M. C. Escher's Ascending and Descending, where the victim would run endlessly on the stairs without ever reaching the next floor:

But Renoir powers don't only work on a painting, but anything that is fiction. Comics, manga, and books works too:

All of this is in line with what we saw in the section about Kakera. Human fiction from a world have their own worlds on a lower layer from the main one.

Kyou and the boundaries between worlds
Kyou is a Yokai with the ability to travel on the border between Worlds and into said worlds. Is an ability specific to Higher-Order Beings, and him being a Yokai, a being of the Human Domain, makes him quite special.

Anyway, the first time we see Kyou in action is with the Worlds of the Mirrors, like how his pseudonym, Kyou of the Mirror, is. Different worlds reside behind each mirror, worlds where everything in nature/creation - Shinra Bansho (森羅万象), exists in an opposite state. Those worlds have the same structure as the main world, even their own versions of the beings from the main world (Yokai included), but reversed in some way (like personality, for example).

Besides that, something may be reversed. ...... After all, the mirror controls all kinds of things, everything.

Those mirror worlds also have their own mirrors, which also lead to different mirror worlds, and this recursion continues on forever. An infinite number of mirror worlds are obtained from a finite numbers of mirrors.

But that's not the only border between worlds that Kyou can access, he can access also the border between Reality and Dreams, the world of Daydreams. World, because even dreams and daydreams are their own world, with their own versions of the real world (Yokai included).

This is a bit of a more weird world from reality, where even ghosts can interact with living humans.

And as I've said, the world of Daydreams has its own versions of the Yokai, including Renoir, who can transport beings into fictional worlds, meaning that even the fictions of the Daydream are their own worlds on a lower layer.

This opens the possibilities for an endless recursion of lower worlds, as fictions and dreams of one world exist as their own on a lower level, and so on. The recursion from the mirror worlds would also greatly increase this chain too, as this principle of dreams, daydreams, and fictions should apply to those mirrored worlds too because they have the same structures as the main world.

The World of Gaap aka the Underside of the Gameboard
The Underside of the Gameboard is a void without the concepts of time and space, beyond all the time and space of the Human Domain. It is the boundary between the Domain of Humans and the Domain of Witches, and it's impossible for humans to access it.

Recap
  • So, as we had seen, the Human Domain is its own hierarchy of layers
  • Those layers are the fictions made by the beings of this Domain, anything from paintings, to books, video games, and even dreams or daydreams
  • The fictions that make up those layers have their own complexity, with quantum structures such as Schrodinger's Catbox, or higher dimensions
  • All of this is caped up by a void without the concepts of time and space, that exists above all time and space of the Human Domain.

Witch Domain
The Witch Domain (魔女たちの領域), or the World of the Gods, is the 2nd domain in the cosmology and the first one of the higher pole, or the side that creates fate. This domain is purely abstract in nature and the concepts of the lower domain can be visualized as Kakera.

Before getting into the complexity of this higher domain, we should first understand the qualitative difference between it and the Human Domain, and what it takes to reach the Witch Domain.

The Witch Domain is completely superior to the Human Domain, in a similar way to how the 3rd Domain is superior to the Witch Domain. Accordingly, no extensions of the Human Domain would be able to reach here physically, only being represented as a concept in the form of Kakera, and all of its expansion is nothing but a game board (fiction) to the beings in the Witch Domain.

The Human Domain is nothing but a chessboard to beings in this domain, with there being no difference to them between the normal human worlds and the supernatural or higher dimensional world, as all of those are just cells on the gameboard.

The concept of time also gets increasingly vague as one closes to the Witch Domain, to the point that it stop existing there alltogether.

The words and languages of the Human Domain are limited compared to those in the higher domain, and they can’t express the concepts of the Witch Domain or understand them. So the fictions/stories created by Humans that make up the Human Domain would never be able to reach into this higher domain because of this limitation of expression.

But those limitations aren’t only to language, but to one’s own spirit/being too. The only known ways of reaching into the Witch Domain is by either being led there by a higher being, becoming their Piece or Miko, in this way the higher being guaranteeing your existence in the Witch Domain; or by an internal evolution of the spirit.

The former requires a lot of time, as was the case for Rika and Bernkastel. Only after hundreds of years of traveling the Sea of Fragments in Hanyuu’s protection was Rika starting to delimitate from her human self and internally evolve into a higher being, the Witch Bernkastel.

ADD A PHOTO TO THIS GALLERY
‘’……より上位の世界の存在に生まれ変わりつつある。’’

‘’.... it is being reborn into a higher world being.’’

But most of the time, those humans would mostly be part of their Higher Being’s Territory, similar to how the Ushiromiya family was in the case of Beatrice’s Territory, where once Beatrice would disappear, they would also disappear. So unless the transition towards a complete higher being is done, one would alway be part of a higher being’s control.

It’s also good to note that if the higher being doesn’t want to give its protection to the human it brings into the Witch Domain, said human would cease to exist, as he didn’t achieve the internal evolution to be able to survive the pressure of the higher domain.

In the case of one getting into the Witch Domain through an independent internal evolution, this road is even more rare. The only known case till now is the one of Beatrice, where she achieved the evolution into a higher being on her own. But Beatrice is a special case, as her Endless Magic grants her endless evolution.

But even in the case of this internal evolution, one must get recognition from a higher order being for their evolution to be completed.

One would only become a Witch once this internal evolution was completed and in the process advanced from the Human Domain over the Threshold, the boundary that limits the evolutions of Humans, into the Witch Domain, transcending all limitations of the previous domain in the proccess.

Now that we understand the difference between the Witch Domain and Human Domain, and how one can only reach the higher domain through an internal evolution of the spirit, is time to get into the complexity of this higher domain.

The Witch Domain is composed out of an infinite number of layers like a ladder, referred to as “endeavours” as metaphor for will or ambition. From a higher layer, the lower layer is considered fiction and appears in the form of Kakera. Those layers are indeed infinite, as they aren’t limited by any short of numbers.

This ladder is also one of loss of restrictions and gain of power. The higher one goes and evolves through the layers, the less restrictions he/she would have, and, proportionally, more power he/she would gain.

Sea of Fragments
One of the most important structures in the Witch Domain is the Sea of Fragments/Kakera, which is the background on which all the layers of the domain exist. It is called as such because this place is filled with Fragments/Kakera which represent either worlds of the Human Domain in the form of Catboxes, or worlds from a lower layer of the Witch Domain.


The Sea of Fragments is also a dangerous place, as one could easily lose his sense of purpose and end up falling into the Depths of Oblivion.

I’ve mentioned Catboxes in the Human Domain section, and now I need to say that they aren’t just part of the Human Domain. A Catbox, in the broad sense, it’s a structure of the Witch Domain that contains part of the Human Domain inside it.

A Catbox itself can contain layers of the Witch Domain above the Human Domain, and because we don’t have a clear “layer 1” for the Witch Domain, I’ll use Beatrice’s Catbox as the base for the ascension of layers.

The Local Sea of Fragments
The 1st layer in this evolution is the Sea of Fragments localised in a Catbox (in this case that being Beatrice’s Catbox). From this layer, all of the Human Domain worlds appear in the form of Kakera. This is just a small part of the true Sea of Fragment.

The same principle about loss of self that applied for the true Sea also applies to this piece of the Sea.

As said previously, because of the lack of a definite baseline for the Witch Domain, I’ll consider this layer as being the baseline.

The Meta-World/Purgatory
The Meta-World, also named as Purgatory or the Meta-Room, is a higher layer above the Local Sea of Fragments, from where the worlds of the Human Domain appear as a gameboard. This is the primary reality that higher beings use when playing their games.

The Cathedral exists on a this layer, and acts like a courtroom for the Witches and Pieces.

There’s also a higher layer superimposed over the normal layer. This secondary layer could likely apply to all the other layers of the Catbox.

Golden Land
The highest plane of existence on Beatrice's gameboard is the Golden Land, a nigh impenetrable reality where Beatrice reigns. When almost the entire Cat box was consumed it alone existed in a Tale in which it was regarded to exist "on a higher floor".

The Game Master’s existence
While not technically a true layer, the Game Master exists above all layers of its Territory/Catbox.

The Cathedral of Bernkastel’s Catbox and the Witch’s Theater
This higher layer is part of Bernkastel’s Catbox which she created by merging multiple Kakera together. This Catbox is much larger than Beatrice’s, to the point that the Games that took place there appear as just Kakera in here.

The Witch’s Theater is a higher layer above the Cathedral, from where all the events and places of Bernkastel’s Catbox, including the Cathedral, are just a play.

Heaven and Hell
Not much is known about those realities, but they are on a much higher level than the Catboxes of Beatrice and Bernkastel, from where the beings residing there can travel freely into the Sea of Fragments.


Featherine Aurora’s Study
This study is a higher reality from which all of Umineko is merely just a story, including Bernkastel’s Catbox.


The City of Books
The City of Books is the highest shown reality of the Witch Domain. It’s an enormous library holding endless books, but each of those books is a world from a lower layer or from the Human Domain. The height of the layer it exists on is unknown, but it’s likely very high as the City is restricted to only Great Witches and Witches of the Senate.


There exists a higher layer here too, only referred to as Spectator’s Rows.

3rd Domain
Not much is known of this domain, not even the name is known, but it’s the domain to which Featherine returned to after touching the Kingdom of God, and also the domain where Beatrice’s internally evolved to.


Unknown to herself, Beatrice begane to internally evolve and transcends the Witches Domain, taking steps into the 3rd Domain. From this we know that this domain is also a hierarchy of layers, but how large is this hierarchy? Well, it is infinite, because one’s journey to the Creator has no endpoint by definition.


So this 3rd Domain is its own infinite hierarchy of layers, and being residing here transcends the Witch Domain to the point that its entire infinite hierarchy is all but just a game board (fiction) to the beings of this much higher domain.

The Depths of Oblivion
The Sea of Oblivion is the void where beings of the higher domains go when their existence gets erased, destroyed, or conceptually denied. It lies at the bottom of the Sea of Fragments, beyond the infinite layers of the Witch Domain and of the 3rd Domain. Concepts such as life and death have no meaning here.


This is the “Hell” where Voyager that “misses a step” on the ladder, or beings that lose their purpose and self to the Sea of Fragments, also go.

Powerful enough beings, like Bernkastel, can send others here or take them out from here.



However, even weak Meta Beings can regenerate from here and reform as long as they can regain their will/sense of self.

The Kingdom of God and The Creator
Beyond the expansions of the 3 domains lies the Kingdom of God, the last boundary that Featherine reached before the Creator.


At this point, the number of restrictions is almost non-existent, with the only ones being related to one’s meaning and self.


This is the place where Featherine’s true form exists, and, to her, there’s no difference between her human avatar and her Witch avatar, similar to how to an actor there’s no difference between the roles he plays, as they are all just roles in the end.

The Creator
Beyond this boundary lies The Creator. Boundless, omnipotent, and freed from all restrictions. Beings who reach here lose their self and meaning and become one with The Creator.

About the Creator

The Creator is a sacred being who can create 1 in the sea of nothingness.

It produces 1 from 0, infinity, and return to 0 in the blink of an eye.

Free from all restrictions, the voyagers in particular call him God.

In that sense, the Witch of Origins Maria may be the chosen girl who was promised to be the Creator.

The voyagers fear that the end of their own journey is to become the Creator.

Why they fear evolving into a higher being is incomprehensible to anyone other than those involved.

Summary
  • Human Domain:
    • Infinite Hierarchy
    • Capped by a void beyond time and space
  • Witch's Domain:
    • An infinite hierarchy
    • The Human Domain is just a chessboard to them
    • The World of Gods, the side that controls fate
  • 3rd Domain
    • The Domain Featherine returned to after touching the Kingdom of God
    • Beyond even the Witch's Domain
    • An infinite hierarchy
  • Depths of Oblivion
    • Beyond the former domains
    • Life and death have no meaning
    • Where Voyagers who miss their step climbing the infinite hierarchy go to
    • Powerful Voyagers can send or remove others from there
    • In this state beyond life and death, if one regains their sense of self they can recover
  • Kingdom of God and the Creator
    • The Last domain where Featherine reached
    • Where Featherine's true form resides
  • The Creator
    • The final stage
    • True omnipotent
    • Voyagers that reach here lose even their identity and meaning
    • Complete transduality
    • The Voyagers call it God
    • Free from all restrictions including sense of identity and meaning

Most Multiversal entities would just be the peak of the Human Domain, below the infinitely nested Witches Domain, in turn below the infinite 3rd Domain, in turn below the Kingdom of God and the Creator that Featherine reached. Above even that is The Creator.

The Umineko cosmology is pretty crazy. Thor would not even register to Umineko Witches.

No matter how powerful an entity is, they are but a chess piece that can be manipulated at will by those of higher domains.
 
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Adam 🍎

Pretty Boy
#40
Doesn’t matter, this isn’t One Piece lol. And besides, Franklin Richards is one of the most OP characters in Marvel anyway, especially the version of him that pulled off that feat.

Also, Herald =/= lackey...lol
Well he made him his bitch lmao
Franklin is mega OP and could give a good run to most fictional characters.

I mean then there is council of Reeds and just as well could he council of Franklins. Behold infinite Franklins
 
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