Current Events Is Toei right or is Toei wrong (Sanji vs Drake and P1)

[Chrono]

@nik87 im done with this debate. You seem to want the cake and eat it too.

- So far you've stated Toei contradicted the manga by the idea of Drake and P1 being concious when last seen. Then I said that Sanji was last seen fighting P1 and showing superiority. But you said it works with evidence that Sanji ran away. Yet the evidence you is everything Pre-Sanji vs P1.

You deny Toei gave you the idea, but since theyve confirmed it then....it must be right. Yet Toei is contradicting using your logic as Sanji was last seen fighting P1. So how can you use that as an argument.

I said that what if I believed in Sanji defeating Drake, and I could say Toei confirmed it for me. Them you claim its illogical....cause murrr Worst Gen. Yet you ignore this is my own subjective opinion just like your subjective take on Sanji vs P1. If we were to look at it objectively, Sanji has shown superiorty. This current chapter is adamant proof of that. So then why is it so hard to believe that Sanji defeated P1.

All of this debating started over the illogical belief that the anime contradicted the manga. Even though it literally didnt. All it did was fill in the blanks with their own headcannon. Same way it did for Sanji vs P1. Yet the anime in that regard was legit because it proved what you believed.

Like boi stfu.

Im done with this debate. Your twisting and turning the entire time.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

The Doriki system is flawed this is why is stupid to bring it up not only in 2020 but even in eneis lobby when there are so many factors which isn't incorporated in the said system.

Also the Supernova isn't just about bounty its about who is leading the next generation said in Doffy's speech.

Also stated by hawkins that it would be foolish to take on 2 worst generation/supernova without going all out — so in a sense there is a threat/powerlevel with being a Supernova.

And in that same manner the Supernova system is flawed. It literally requires for you to have a certain bounty when you pass through a certain point or you are disqualified from being one.

Like Cavendish is a Supernova with seniority over Luffy's generation, and pretty much anyone would agree that Sanji kicks his ass.

There's value in the WG, because we can tell that most of the WG members will play a significant role going forward. What the WG does not do is tell us that it disqualifies anyone who is not a WG from being as significant.

That's why to go back to this threads topic Toei has no problem making Sanji flex on a member of the WG

 

[Chrono]

right. Doriki belongs in Enies lobby arc.

However Doffy mentions supernova, Bege mentions the Supernova title when speaking with Sanji, Hawkins mentions supernova title when facing Luffy and Zoro.

The supernova title holds more weight than the doriki system which isn't even a proper power level system.

It doesnr hold shit when Sanji looks better and has higher bounties than a lot of them.

Most of the time....when the word SN comes about, it usually means Pirate Captains that will change the world. Zoro aint no leader, hows he gonna do anything under Luffy'a shadow.

Even if we were to accept the SN title...we need to accept that Sanji has been consistently shown to be in league with them.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

@nik87 im done with this debate. You seem to want the cake and eat it too.

- So far you've stated Toei contradicted the manga by the idea of Drake and P1 being concious when last seen. Then I said that Sanji was last seen fighting P1 and showing superiority. But you said it works with evidence that Sanji ran away. Yet the evidence you is everything Pre-Sanji vs P1.

You deny Toei gave you the idea, but since theyve confirmed it then....it must be right. Yet Toei is contradicting using your logic as Sanji was last seen fighting P1. So how can you use that as an argument.

I said that what if I believed in Sanji defeating Drake, and I could say Toei confirmed it for me. Them you claim its illogical....cause murrr Worst Gen. Yet you ignore this is my own subjective opinion just like your subjective take on Sanji vs P1. If we were to look at it objectively, Sanji has shown superiorty. This current chapter is adamant proof of that. So then why is it so hard to believe that Sanji defeated P1.

All of this debating started over the illogical belief that the anime contradicted the manga. Even though it literally didnt. All it did was fill in the blanks with their own headcannon. Same way it did for Sanji vs P1. Yet the anime in that regard was legit because it proved what you believed.

Like boi stfu.

Im done with this debate. Your twisting and turning the entire time.

Bullshit
Sanji did not defeat Page One
Sanji did not defeat X-Drake
Sanji got his ass whooped by King

These are undeniable realities anime or manga or what ever the fuck. Sanji wank ain't gonna change the fact that he hasn't done shit and it has nothing to do with me hating Sanji. Its reality.

Stop the wank.

 

[duckman]

But the same fans hold onto doriki in 2020 is also laughable.

Personally the supernova title is held higher than Doriki.

Supernova title is based on bounty, so Sanji > Zoro then

 

[Chrono]

Bullshit
Sanji did not defeat Page One
Sanji did not defeat X-Drake
Sanji got his ass whooped by King

These are undeniable realities anime or manga or what ever the fuck. Sanji wank ain't gonna change the fact that he hasn't done shit and it has nothing to do with me hating Sanji. Its reality.

Stop the wank.

Sanji did not run away from Page One.

Sanji got his ass whooped by King

What does King have to do with this lmao

 

[Zenos7]

His reasoning is that the anime contradicts it because the last time we saw them they were conciouness. In my opinion thats illogical...

Sure he may have a point if the clash was not important for the parties involved. But it was important for them

For Sanji vs P1 - Both of them want to defeat each other. Its illogical to assume Sanji would want to run away since he never expressed it. And believing Sanji ran away contradicts this entire logic that Nik himself is using.....but i'll get in to that.


For Drake vs Sanji - Drake wants revenge against Sanji. Sanji expressed interested in fighting him back...because if he didnt...he wouldve ran away with Toko. Not only that but Drake pissed off Sanji. Sanji is angry with Drake....


Now if I used his own logical reasoning against him. Sanji was never shown running away or expressed that he was gonna run away. Last time we saw Sanji on-panel against P1....he was still fighting him. So why can he accept that Sanji ran away, even though it goes against his logical thinking....that the last thing that happened on-panel is the thing we have to follow the most.

Why is he easily conforming to Toei saying that Sanji ran away. When the last thing Sanji did was fight and land an attack. Doesnt that contradict everything @nik87 is saying.

if the above is the case, then @nik87 is hypocritical about treating these scenes in the same manner, sure.

Sanji running away from p1 -> contradicts what we see on panel
Sanji oneshotting drake -> contradicts what we see on panel.

So the anime is still irrelevant

 

[Rukusho]

And in that same manner the Supernova system is flawed. It literally requires for you to have a certain bounty when you pass through a certain point or you are disqualified from being one.

Like Cavendish is a Supernova with seniority over Luffy's generation, and pretty much anyone would agree that Sanji kicks his ass.

There's value in the WG, because we can tell that most of the WG members will play a significant role going forward. What the WG does not do is tell us that it disqualifies anyone who is not a WG from being as significant.

That's why to go back to this threads topic Toei has no problem making Sanji flex on a member of the WG

STOP.

Sanji hasn't flexed on any WG member not a single one in manga (make a thread about it and a poll)

Cavendish in my opinion is roughly around Sanji level but again there is a thread for that.

Oda decided to introduce the next generation of pirates through the Worst Generation - Sanji is not part of this , the only thing which has given Sanji notiroteity is the Vinsmoke name which even in that sense he doesn't like it — its too soon right now to confirm if Drake is down for the count.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Sanji did not run away from Page One.

Maybe, maybe not.
But Sanji did bullshit about reducing numbers so his word is not reliable
We did not see Page One defeating
No highlight was made about a Toppi Robbo getting defeated when even Sanji kicking some fodders became a high light
No one ever mentioned Page One's defeat.

So Page One getting defeated is out of the question.
Now how it ended, is up to reader's imagination. I think Sanji using invisibility and hauling ass makes sense though.

 

[Rukusho]

It doesnr hold shit when Sanji looks better and has higher bounties than a lot of them.

Most of the time....when the word SN comes about, it usually means Pirate Captains that will change the world. Zoro aint no leader, hows he gonna do anything under Luffy'a shadow.

Even if we were to accept the SN title...we need to accept that Sanji has been consistently shown to be in league with them.

How does he look better ??

Chrono cut it out you and I know Zoro is a leader stop it.

No he hasn't been in any league with any supernova.

 

[Chrono]

if the above is the case, then @nik87 is hypocritical about treating these scenes in the same manner, sure.

Sanji running away from p1 -> contradicts what we see on panel
Sanji oneshotting drake -> contradicts what we see on panel.

So the anime is still irrelevant

I agree. However he supports the notion of Sanji running away from P1, as its what he believes. And when asked wheres the proof of that, he says the anime supports his idea. Lmao.

Like I dont know where to go with this dude. Hes twisting and turning.

 

[Rukusho]

Supernova title is based on bounty, so Sanji > Zoro then

Its not just bounty it's about who's leading the next generation.

Sanji isn't in this group.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

STOP.

Sanji hasn't flexed on any WG member not a single one in manga (make a thread about it and a poll)

Cavendish in my opinion is roughly around Sanji level but again there is a thread for that.

Oda decided to introduce the next generation of pirates through the Worst Generation - Sanji is not part of this , the only thing which has given Sanji notiroteity is the Vinsmoke name which even in that sense he doesn't like it — its too soon right now to confirm if Drake is down for the count.

You quote a post saying Toei in a thread where we discuss what Toei did, i'm clearly not talking about the manga.

The Toei staff feels comfortable in making Sanji do this against a member of the WG. You'd think Oda would tell them how precious the WG is and how whatever they do, they must make sure that they don't make the WG look worse than other characters of their generation

The heck does saying that he's not part of it do, is it that not what we are discussing ? That's not an argument

Nothing says that everyone who is not part of the WG is by default excluded from being as good or better than a member of the WG in certain aspects, one of them being strength, since the WG is not only about strength but mainly about bounty, which once again is not only about strength. And even in the bounty aspect Sanji was now allowed to surpass WG members, so why not also strength ? No good reason.

The WG is mostly a hype tool. Sanji being now more notorious/stronger than certain members of the WG hypes him up in return

 

[Chrono]

Maybe, maybe not.
But Sanji did bullshit about reducing numbers so his word is not reliable
We did not see Page One defeating
No highlight was made about a Toppi Robbo getting defeated when even Sanji kicking some fodders became a high light
No one ever mentioned Page One's defeat.

So Page One getting defeated is out of the question.
Now how it ended, is up to reader's imagination. I think Sanji using invisibility and hauling ass makes sense though.

How is outta the question:

- P1 lost his relevance and disaapered for 2 week
- P1 disappeared for 50 manga chapters
- Drake is pissed at Sanji
- Sanji doesnt seem to care about the village anymore.

You are seeking confirmation in such weird ways. Waiting for confirmation from Orochi abd his goons....when Oda himself off-panelled the event. Oda doesnt seem to care about showing what really happened.

All we need to know is Sanji beat him up into irrelevancy. To the point he never was able to do shit anymore, and to point that Sanji thinks Usopp and Nami can handle themselves against him

Post automatically merged: Sep 28, 2020

@ShishioIsBack technically weve never seen Zoro defeat those specific Gifters. So im just gonna assume Zoro ran away....ok. Have fun.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

How is outta the question:

- P1 lost his relevance and disaapered for 2 week
- P1 disappeared for 50 manga chapters
- Drake is pissed at Sanji
- Sanji doesnt seem to care about the village anymore.

You are seeking confirmation in such weird ways. Waiting for confirmation from Orochi abd his goons....when Oda himself off-panelled the event. Oda doesnt seem to care about showing what really happened.

All we need to know is Sanji beat him up into irrelevancy. To the point he never was able to do shit anymore, and to point that Sanji thinks Usopp and Nami can handle themselves against him

What do you mean his relevance disappeared for 2 weeks?
Kyoshiro's relevance also disappeared for a while after Yasui's death.

Give me any confirmaiton
-Any statement
-Any highlight
-Page One's unconscious body
-Page One's own comment
-Ulti's comment
-Kaido's comment
-Any GOD DAMN indication at all


Drake was hardly pissed at Sanji lmao, he was just putting up a front. And why would Drake be pissed at Sanji about P1 when he isn't even really part of Kaido's crew?

 

[Kuro Ashi]

Doesn't X Drake saying that he's not as weak as Page One to Sanji, imply that Sanji had an easy time dealing with Page One but according to X Drake he'd have a harder time dealing with him because he is not as weak ?

 

[nik87]

Again your belief in Sanji's irrelevancy is irrelevant to this argument. Were not talking about your opinion on Sanji vs Drake. Were talking about the fact that if someone believed Sanji beat Drake off-panalled, and the anime confirmed it. They would be no different from your stupid belief of Sanji running away from P1.

Why would anyone believe that Sanji defeated Drake? Literally the contrary has been shown, Drake smacked him into the ground with his tail and kept trying to bite him. That's all. How does an overzealous Sanji fan get to the conclusion that he has beaten Drake?
As I told you, it is different from my belief that Sanji didnt defeat PageOne.

And did Sanji not say that he will defeat him quickly ? Why is it so hard to believe Sanji's words but everyone's elses words is completely true.
My god you've shown your complete hypocrisy and biasedness....abd this all due to Toei filler. Atleast this expos

Yes and is Sanji famous for defeating strong people quickly? Is Pageone's defeat ever mentioned, shown or hinted at?
Because Sanji's words dont mean anything. He said he would reduce enemy numbers and he didnt do it. Literally empty words.
Forget about Toei, they cant help you. Manga is all that matters and Sanji defeating either of the Zoans is not what has been shown.

 

[Chrono]

What do you mean his relevance disappeared for 2 weeks?
Kyoshiro's relevance also disappeared for a while after Yasui's death.

Give me any confirmaiton
-Any statement
-Any highlight
-Page One's unconscious body
-Page One's own comment
-Ulti's comment
-Kaido's comment
-Any GOD DAMN indication at all


Drake was hardly pissed at Sanji lmao, he was just putting up a front. And why would Drake be pissed at Sanji about P1 when he isn't even really part of Kaido's crew?

Kyoushiro disappeared when he wasnt relevant to the story. However P1 disappered in scnes he would logically be in if he was in full health.

Such as:
- The Bath scene with Drake, Hawkins and Sanji
- Yasui's death
- Or any other scene with Drake and Hawkins.

Why was he gone ? If hes in full health. Why didnt destroy everything. If he was full health why didnt he chase after and look Sanji.

Drake was acting pissed. If he had no reason to act piss then Sanji didnt do anything. But Drake had to put up a front and act pissed...since logically Sanji did something to P1.

Like all the evidence points to it. But you guys are so desperate to not accept that Sanji defeated a stronger opponent than Zoro in the manga and in the anime.

Does it hurt knowing that both Oda and Toei believe Sanji > Zoro ? I feel like the next few chapters wont be healthy for you...just take a break.

 

[Rukusho]

You quote a post saying Toei in a thread where we discuss what Toei did, i'm clearly not talking about the manga.

The Toei staff feels comfortable in making Sanji do this against a member of the WG. You'd think Oda would tell them how precious the WG is and how whatever they do, they must make sure that they don't make the WG look worse than other characters of their generation

The heck does saying that he's not part of it do, is it that not what we are discussing ? That's not an argument

Nothing says that everyone who is not part of the WG is by default excluded from being as good or better than a member of the WG in certain aspects, one of them being strength, since the WG is not only about strength but mainly about bounty, which once again is not only about strength. And even in the bounty aspect Sanji was now allowed to surpass WG members, so why not also strength ? No good reason.

The WG is mostly a hype tool. Sanji being now more notorious/stronger than certain members of the WG hypes him up in return

Didn't I say its too soon to consider Drake is down for the count ?

What I'm stating is that WG isn't something that should be ignored or simply placed as its a bounty measurement for pre-ts or "hype-tool".

The WG have a presence in the manga I agree though not to say characters outside the WG don't have a place but one thing is if Oda wanted to place Sanji within the realm he could have done so, but he didn't.

Sanji hasn't done anything to warrant him stronger or more notorious than the Supernova.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Kyoushiro disappeared when he wasnt relevant to the story. However P1 disappered in scnes he would logically be in if he was in full health.

Such as:
- The Bath scene with Drake, Hawkins and Sanji
- Yasui's death
- Or any other scene with Drake and Hawkins.

Why was he gone ? If hes in full health. Why didnt destroy everything. If he was full health why didnt he chase after and look Sanji.

Drake was acting pissed. If he had no reason to act piss then Sanji didnt do anything. But Drake had to put up a front and act pissed...since logically Sanji did something to P1.

Like all the evidence points to it. But you guys are so desperate to not accept that Sanji defeated a stronger opponent than Zoro in the manga and in the anime.

Does it hurt knowing that both Oda and Toei believe Sanji > Zoro ? I feel like the next few chapters wont be healthy for you...just take a break.

What?
Page One not being at bath house is not a sufficient evidence that he was knocked out lmao, that is bad detective skills. How do you know he didn't just leave?
Why would Page One be at bath house scene? Why wasn't Who's Who there?
Why wasn't Sasaki at Yasui's death
Why wasn't Ulti at any other scene?

Why didn't he destroy everything? Idk maybe Drake stopped him some how?

Why would Drake be pissed off for a comrade he gives too shit about? Maybe X-Drake was putting up the front because Sanji did technically succeed in escaping and hence X-Drake failed his mission to capture him?

Look I don't need to be answering you all these questions.
Literally all the burden of proof falls on you if you gonna make a claim as outrageous as Sanji has defeated Page One, something which has no concrete evidence of.