Questions & Mysteries Is Wano's raid worse than WCI's "wedding cake" so far?
- Thread starter Monkey D. Luffy
- Start date
I'm gonna be honest, the Wano raid isn't any better imo.
A lot of people agree that WCI was worse simply because of Big Mom and the whole wedding Cake fiasco. But the thing about WCI was that it was just half the straw hats, and no matter how much bullshit plot oda introduced into the arc to save the straw hats, at least it had tension imo. Being surrounded on the Roof Top, the relentless chase of the Big Mom after the straw hats, Luffy going off to fight Katakuri 1v1, being unable there to protect his crew, Jinbe, the fishman pirates and germa leaving behind to let the Straw Hats escape. As annoying at Big Mom was, the crew was constantly in danger.
The Wano 'War' to me feels like it has zero tension. The consequence of Luffy attacking Kaido back in Obokre Town was him getting Haki training in prison. Kanjuro's betrayal and Orochi's plotting ended up having zero impact on the raid. Then the Tama plot was introduced to make the Beast Pirates meaningless, removing the tension that the superior numbers a Yonko crew brings. And then we have Kaido not killing Luffy multiple times when he knocked him out unconscious. Once in Obokure Town, and like twice on the Roof Top. Inuarashi and Nekomamushi aren't dead, despite passing out with Sulong Form still active, which was said to be life threatening. Chopper getting free shots on Queen, even though Queen got X Drake bleeding and groveling on the ground.
Probably the one saving grace in this whole thing is the death of some of the Scarrabs, like Kinemon, Kiku and Ashura.
Oda placed all the tension and focus on the Scarrabs who I don't care about, instead of the Straw Hats or members of the Worstgen, so maybe that's the problem.
A lot of people agree that WCI was worse simply because of Big Mom and the whole wedding Cake fiasco. But the thing about WCI was that it was just half the straw hats, and no matter how much bullshit plot oda introduced into the arc to save the straw hats, at least it had tension imo. Being surrounded on the Roof Top, the relentless chase of the Big Mom after the straw hats, Luffy going off to fight Katakuri 1v1, being unable there to protect his crew, Jinbe, the fishman pirates and germa leaving behind to let the Straw Hats escape. As annoying at Big Mom was, the crew was constantly in danger.
The Wano 'War' to me feels like it has zero tension. The consequence of Luffy attacking Kaido back in Obokre Town was him getting Haki training in prison. Kanjuro's betrayal and Orochi's plotting ended up having zero impact on the raid. Then the Tama plot was introduced to make the Beast Pirates meaningless, removing the tension that the superior numbers a Yonko crew brings. And then we have Kaido not killing Luffy multiple times when he knocked him out unconscious. Once in Obokure Town, and like twice on the Roof Top. Inuarashi and Nekomamushi aren't dead, despite passing out with Sulong Form still active, which was said to be life threatening. Chopper getting free shots on Queen, even though Queen got X Drake bleeding and groveling on the ground.
Probably the one saving grace in this whole thing is the death of some of the Scarrabs, like Kinemon, Kiku and Ashura.
Oda placed all the tension and focus on the Scarrabs who I don't care about, instead of the Straw Hats or members of the Worstgen, so maybe that's the problem.
It made me realize we're putting too much stock on veteran-levels. Aside from Vergo, the majority of their defeats have been underwhelming, look at Diamante and Trebol. Even Boa Hancock's sisters, who had advanced COA jobbed to someone with no Haki.
Only Page One and Ulti had terrible defeats. The Tobi Roppo suffered from being introduced way too late and after the Disasters. Oda did the same thing with Big Mom's veterans.
Only Page One and Ulti had terrible defeats. The Tobi Roppo suffered from being introduced way too late and after the Disasters. Oda did the same thing with Big Mom's veterans.
I still prefer the raid over the wedding cake rampage chase.
You should re-read WCI arc again and because it seems like you must have ignored everything you read.
You say Oven was a walking punching bag and yet Oven would always get back up with very little damage, this was to show how durable Oven was and even the vivre card mentioned that Oven has the number one durability out of all the Charlotte sons including Katakuri.
The BMP did felt like a threat during the second half.
Perospero almost killed Brook and Chopper if it wasn't for Pedro.
Oven almost took out an entire supernova crew along with Sanji if it wasn't for Pound.
Katakuri almost defeated and killed Luffy if it wasn't for Brûlée being in the Mirro-World.
If it wasn't for the full moon, then Daifuku and his fleet would have sunk the Sunny. Your comment on Carrot and Daifuku makes it seem like they fought but they didn't, Sulong Carrot never fought Daifuku all she did was avoid him and disable his fleet.
If it wasn't for the Germa then the BMP on Cacao Island would have killed Luffy and Sanji.
If it wasn't for Wadatsumi switching the Sun Pirates ship with the Sunny, then the BMP would have been successful on destroying the Sunny and killing everyone.
The problem is because of plot and help from certain characters.
The raid is obviously way better than the second half of the WCI arc, but you are wrong about the BMP not being seen as a threat during the second half of the WCI arc.
When it comes to the Beasts Pirates during the raid only Kaido, the Calamities, and Ulti actually feel like a threat.
You should re-read WCI arc again and because it seems like you must have ignored everything you read.
You say Oven was a walking punching bag and yet Oven would always get back up with very little damage, this was to show how durable Oven was and even the vivre card mentioned that Oven has the number one durability out of all the Charlotte sons including Katakuri.
The BMP did felt like a threat during the second half.
Perospero almost killed Brook and Chopper if it wasn't for Pedro.
Oven almost took out an entire supernova crew along with Sanji if it wasn't for Pound.
Katakuri almost defeated and killed Luffy if it wasn't for Brûlée being in the Mirro-World.
If it wasn't for the full moon, then Daifuku and his fleet would have sunk the Sunny. Your comment on Carrot and Daifuku makes it seem like they fought but they didn't, Sulong Carrot never fought Daifuku all she did was avoid him and disable his fleet.
If it wasn't for the Germa then the BMP on Cacao Island would have killed Luffy and Sanji.
If it wasn't for Wadatsumi switching the Sun Pirates ship with the Sunny, then the BMP would have been successful on destroying the Sunny and killing everyone.
The problem is because of plot and help from certain characters.
The raid is obviously way better than the second half of the WCI arc, but you are wrong about the BMP not being seen as a threat during the second half of the WCI arc.
When it comes to the Beasts Pirates during the raid only Kaido, the Calamities, and Ulti actually feel like a threat.
Big Mom wasn't even a problem during the first of the WCI arc, the problem with her comes in the second half when Oda decided to make her go on a food rampage and have her constantly scream wedding cake all the time.
If Oda didn't have Big Mom constantly scream wedding cake then I wouldn't have mind Big Mom's food rampage during the second half of the WCI arc, her being silent during the chase scenes would have been way better but unfortunately Oda didn't want to do that.
If Oda didn't have Big Mom constantly scream wedding cake then I wouldn't have mind Big Mom's food rampage during the second half of the WCI arc, her being silent during the chase scenes would have been way better but unfortunately Oda didn't want to do that.
The F5 are around Vergo level. However, they seem underwhelming for two reasons. First, their fights were way too short because Oda, for some odd reason, feels obliged to make sure that no non-M3 SH fight lasts for more than two chapters worth of pages. Second, Oda handled the SHs (or at least Franky and Robin) reaching Vet level very poorly. I was literally the first person on here to advocate for lesser SHs vs F5 ever since their reveal, but I always said that they would only beat the F5 with powerups. This was true for Nami, but Oda messed up with Franky and Robin by not actually giving them powerups. Robin actually had her “new” techniques ever since the TS, so this makes the fight odd since it technically means that Robin has been Vet level since the TS, which is rather jarring. With Franky, it’s more defensible since he did high diff one of Doffy’s strongest non-Seat executives without even using any cola in his base form, so Base Franky was likely at Diamante/Trebol level. The Shogun probably makes Franky at least twice as strong, so Shogun being Vet level makes sense. However, most of us assumed Shogun Franky couldn’t be Vet level, despite it making sense in hindsight, because of how Vergo performed against Sanji, who should be comfortably above Franky. The truth is that Sanji probably looked much weaker than he was against Vergo because Oda has a tendency to make the SHs look weaker than they really are in order to hype up villains. For examples, look at Lucci negging Luffy and Zoro at the same time, Luffy jobbing to Apoo, and Brook and Chopper getting low diffed by Perospero, even though mid trio members would proceed to defeat people on Pero’s level just one arc later. Oda doesn’t care enough about powerscaling to be consistent with it
