General & Others Jack should have been Kaido's YC1

[Fujishiro]

Kaido's AoE was blocked by Zoro using 1 sword.
King's AoE sent Zoro flying.
Cmon, it shouldn't be debatable already. King's AoE > Kaido's.

King spams AoE, minks are fucked.
If Kaido can use his weaker AoE to fuck the scabbards including the dukes, that means King's AoE can accidentally fuck the dukes too when he intented to clear the fodders first.


Plus, even in speed form, King still has good endurance.
He wasn't one shotted by advanced CoC Zoro.

When did I debate that Kaido's Wing AoE was better? All I said is that King's AoE took out nobody of note, just fodder. And that is a fact.

Thus I doubt he can take out the Mink nation with them. I fail to see where Im wrong here.

And what if Alber decides he doesn't need it? He used it only once on Zoro before he unlocked advanced CoC.

You think he wont use it against thousands of Minks? With atleast a good part of them being in the vet level area and up?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

You think he wont use it against thousands of Minks? With atleast half of them being in the vet level area and up?

Why would he choose his speed form, which lowers his durability and makes him vulnerable, against an army of angry and empowered minks? If anything, keeping it on is what'll give him an easier time fighting. He won't have to worry about any minks blind siding him and can focus on killing whoever's in front of him.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

I just know Jack was solid during Zou. King felt lackluster until his final fight. Maybe.
But since strength and competence are absolute necessity for YC1s, King is much better who he is than Jack.​

 

[Fujishiro]

I dont really know why this was turned into a powerlevel thread to be honest, the simple fact that it did is a good indication that you guys are having a hard time rebuking @Echizen_Jo_Ndule 's point.
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Why would he choose his speed form, which lowers his durability and makes him vulnerable, against an army of angry and empowered minks? If anything, keeping it on is what'll give him an easier time fighting. He won't have to worry about any minks blind siding him and can focus on killing whoever's in front of him.

He keeps it on and they'll overwhelm him and then if they see that they cant hurt him they might try something else, like drowning or suffocating,etc. There are plenty of ways to down someone without the need of physically hurting them.

 

[Topi Jerami]

When did I debate that Kaido's Wing AoE was better? All I said is that King's AoE took out nobody of note, just fodder. And that is a fact.

Thus I doubt he can take out the Mink nation with them. I fail to see where Im wrong here.

Well, you made it sound as if Kaido's is better because his can take Kiku's arm out while King's only hurt fodders.

You are wrong in: if Kaido can take out all 9 scabbards with his weaker AoE, then how can King not take out the entire minks using his stronger AoE?
9 scabbards > minks in Zou.

All minks combined minus the duke can't even take out Jack backed only with 1 Number and bunch of fodders. How can they win against King?

You think he wont use it against thousands of Minks? With atleast half of them being in the vet level area and up?

Even if they can injure King, their attacks won't defeat King. King ate attacks from advanced CoC Zoro and not going down.

After they injure King a bit, King can do 2 options
1. Regenerating with zoan ability
2. Switch back to defense form

 

[Fujishiro]

I just know Jack was solid during Zou. King felt lackluster until his final fight. Maybe.
But since strength and competence are absolute necessity for YC1s, King is much better who he is than Jack.​

Im pretty sure Ndule when saying that Jack wouldve been a better YC1 included him having Yonko level strength. I also fail to see where Jack has been incompetent to be honest? He tracked down the SHs in Kuri, he gazed the minks to go get Doffy. He also went to the roof to fight for Kaido,etc.

He just lacks strength and thats pretty much it.
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You are wrong in: if Kaido can take out all 9 scabbards with his weaker AoE, then how can King not take out the entire minks using his stronger AoE?
9 scabbards > minks in Zou.

Again, Kaido never took out the scabbards with his AoE, he clubbed them all to death in his human form.

All minks combined minus the duke can't even take out Jack backed only with 1 Number and bunch of fodders. How can they win against King?

That was not all the minks.

 

[Topi Jerami]

Im pretty sure Ndule when saying that Jack wouldve been a better YC1 included him having Yonko level strength. I also fail to see where Jack has been incompetent to be honest? He tracked down the SHs in Kuri, he gazed the minks to go get Doffy. He also went to the roof to fight for Kaido,etc.

He just lacks strength and thats pretty much it.

Yeah he is very competent compared to Queen's clown ass.
Even if we don't upgrade Jack's powerlevel, I think he can replace Queen as the YC2. His competence makes up for it for the small power gal between him and Queen.
Can't be the YC1 though.

 

[Fujishiro]

Yeah he is very competent compared to Queen's clown ass.
Even if we don't upgrade Jack's powerlevel, I think he can replace Queen as the YC2. His competence makes up for it for the small power gal between him and Queen.
Can't be the YC1 though.

Queen was a liability to be honest.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I dont really know why this was turned into a powerlevel thread to be honest, the simple fact that it did is a good indication that you guys are having a hard time rebuking @Echizen_Jo_Ndule 's point.

His points are either;

a) Factually incorrect or ignores Jack's characterization in Wano.
b) Opinion based and cannot be any more valid than yours or mine.
3) Semi-valid with Jack's introduction having more pomp to it due to his role as a lead antagonist.

So I'm not sure what can be discussed here, it's another thread by Ndule to bash a character he's had a blind hatred for since his inception.

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He keeps it on and they'll overwhelm him and then if they see that they cant hurt him they might try something else, like drowning or suffocating,etc. There are plenty of ways to down someone without the need of physically hurting them.

This is 100% happening at some point in the battle and murdering any mink caught in it. King can then take to his zoan form and use tempura udon at his leisure. Alber's far from defenseless here, his durability makes him invulnerable to their attacks, his zoan form will make 90% of the mob worthless and his fire attacks are gonna clean them out like nobodies business.

 

[Topi Jerami]

Again, Kaido never took out the scabbards with his AoE, he clubbed them all to death in his human form.

Well, I should reread that part.
I only remember the sccabards seemingly gained upper hand and the tides changed after Kaido used the AoE.
His AoE was the game changer.

That was not all the minks.

Only minus few ones. Pedro, who is comparable to Sicillian, yet Sicillian and other 2 musketeers, Blackback and Roddy all got bodied.
Then who? Carrot and Wanda? They are scrubs.

 

[Fujishiro]

His points are either;

a) Factually incorrect or ignores Jack's characterization in Wano.
b) Opinion based and cannot be any more valid than yours or mine.
3) Semi-valid with Jack's introduction having more pomp to it due to his role as a lead antagonist.

So I'm not sure what can be discussed here, it's another thread by Ndule to bash a character he's had a blind hatred for since his inception.

No I disagree, Jack has shown more than King when it comes to being someone loyal to his Captain and that is factual.

This is 100% happening at some point in the battle and murdering any mink caught in it. King can then take to his zoan form and use tempura udon at his leisure. Alber's far from defenseless here, his durability makes him invulnerable to their attacks, his zoan form will make 90% of the mob worthless and his fire attacks are gonna clean them out like nobodies business.

If it didnt murder Zoro I doubt it would murder many Minks lol.

Well, I should reread that part.
I only remember the sccabards seemingly gained upper hand and the tides changed after Kaido used the AoE.
His AoE was the game changer.


Only minus few ones. Pedro, who is comparable to Sicillian, yet Sicillian and other 2 musketeers, Blackback and Roddy all got bodied.
Then who? Carrot and Wanda? They are scrubs.

No man the game changer was Kaido realizing they cant kill him, thus deciding to clean house. The AoE was the begining of him deciding so, but all it did was take out Kiku's arm and thats pretty much it.


Im saying that 200 Minks arent all the Minks.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

He didn't lose pathetically in 10 min 1v1 with trash stamina.

You’re right, he was just offscreen on the rooftop

Love how you ignore that Jack lost to weaklings

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

No I disagree, Jack has shown more than King when it comes to being someone loyal to his Captain and that is factual.

King;

• Attacked the Big Mom Pirates of his own accord as Kaido fretted over them entering Wano
• Outright refused to join Linlin as she offered forgiveness for attacking her.
• Attempted to resolve the Yamato crisis prematurely on Kaido's behalf
• Attempted to execute Momo and later the Scabbards on Kaido's behalf
• Largely organized the defense of Onigashima on Kaido's behalf
• Swore to never lose solely out of respect to Kaido

The only thing that hits me for Jack is that he followed Kaido to the rooftop to fight and later got back up to fight the Dukes again. Whereas a lot of what Alber is doing isn't demanded of him and is solely for the benefit of Kaido.

 

[Topi Jerami]

Jack acted like fanboy, who tried his best to show his loyalty to Kaido.

King is the partner of Kaido. He already knows Kaido inside and outside, and doing the best for Kaido without trying to show it.
He acknowledges the fanboy though, praising his competence over the clown ass Queen.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I'm one of the few Jack fans on the forum and I did love his monstrous nature in Zou. But I don't think he was ever right hand material. His introduction is Jack receiving 3 L's one after another. Unable to beat the Minks in five days, failing to rescue Doflamingo and being beaten so soundly they pronounced him dead, then getting sunk at sea by Zunisha and needing to be saved.

So even if you excuse what happened to Jack in Wano (for some reason IDK) he'd come off as a pretty underwhelming right hand already. Alber could've been better, Oda should've given him more screen time in the arc. But I'm pretty content with what Oda gave us. No major qualms.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

Im pretty sure Ndule when saying that Jack wouldve been a better YC1 included him having Yonko level strength. I also fail to see where Jack has been incompetent to be honest? He tracked down the SHs in Kuri, he gazed the minks to go get Doffy. He also went to the roof to fight for Kaido,etc.

He just lacks strength and thats pretty much it.

I think Strength and competence go hand in hand. Jack pretty much failed at everything in Wano, got cut by Ashura first, achieved little on roof. Stopped F6 from going down to finish RSs cause they couldn't but ended up failing to finish even one of them himself.

Zou Jack was solid after that he didn't felt like Jack anymore, more like baby Jack.​

 

[DarkWitch]

Even though I like Jack, he was only really interesting and impressive during the Zou arc.

In the Wano arc he became a massive disappointing character, he didn't get that much character focus, his fight on the roof was off screened, and his fight against Inu was also off screened and the only thing we got from the Inu vs Jack fight was the conclusion.

When it comes to Jack as a character, he unfortunately did not become a interesting character unlike King and Queen.

King and Queen are way more interesting that Jack. King has his whole Lunarian race and Queen was part of MADS, meanwhile Jack has nothing other than being a Fish-Men. Even Who's Who ended up being way more interesting than Jack, Jack not being a interesting character is not really his fault but Oda's fault for not giving him that much focus or giving him a interesting backstory.

Oda didn't even bother giving Jack a really cool looking hybrid, Jack imo has one of the worst hybrids.

The only impressive thing Jack did during the Wano arc was defeat a bunch of Sulong Minks on the roof and remember that was off screened.

I like Jack but imo he's not really worthy of being a YC1.

So I'm not sure what can be discussed here, it's another thread by Ndule to bash a character he's had a blind hatred for since his inception.

I think Ndule could have made his points about Jack in this thread without trying to bash on King and Queen.

 

[JoNdule]

I think King won't bother to use the poison gas on Zou.. And against King, the minks wouldn't have the luxury of doing shifts and sleeping.

King has zero solo W btw
His whole purpose wqw to lose
Had no plot in the entire arc

He's an unoriginal character with average feats
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And what if Alber decides he doesn't need it? He used it only once on Zoro before he unlocked advanced CoC.

When will u guys stop talking about characters Stats or who wins

The thread isn't about it

 

[ConquistadoR]

If it didnt murder Zoro I doubt it would murder many Minks lol.

Lol what? How many minks have Zoro level CoA let alone Barrier CoA? How many minks can even use Haki?

Jack literally beat 200 Sulong Minks when he was backed up by an army but King or Queen can't fodderize the nation of Zou entirely?


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"Hakai didn't murder Zoro so I doubt it would murder fodder Minks" is what it sounds like.

I can see why Ndule downplays King so hard but you too Fuji?

 

[Finalbeta]

Downplaying King is flat out foolish and lacking manga domain intelligence.

Not only this man was literally portrayed a God and judging from his feats deserving the title considering how proficiently durable and fast and strong but it took a God Slayer to overcome his grandeur I mean.