Current Events Kuzan Is A Contender For One Piece - Why Oda Doesn’t Care About Swordsmen

[ZenZu]

Garp fought Roger many times with intent to kill with neither being confirmed winner, that is higher than anything Kuzan has going on for him. Roger is top 3 easily with the best conqueror. Primebeard is the worse for Kuzan because Gura will always destroy Ice, then you add Haki ACoC which Kuzan hasnt shown and it's a walk in the park

Akainu beat Kuzan in an extreme diff manner. They are extremely close in power, this is a much better claim than anything Garp has going for him with Roger. What has Garp shown for me to say he doesn't get pushed to extreme diff by either Akainu or Kuzan?



Did you bear witness to any of those fights? How strong were they, what were the circumstances? What I do know is Whitebeard was the only one called Roger's equal.
If you can fight someone with intent to kill countless times then that means they're equal, they were both are equal.

This is circular reasoning, you are already assuming Roger is capable of mid diffing Kuzan, and basing all of your other opinions around this fact. When I'm asking you how that is a fact in the first place?

Regarding Kuzan vs WB, that is a bad matchup for him. So yea WB can potentially mid diff Kuzan.

Regarding Garp being equals with Roger and Whitebeard. I just don't have enough context of what was going on, and how their fights went down. From word of mouth and overall portrayal it suggests RogerBeard were a cut above anyone else, I will go with this until proven otherwise. Though Garp and Roger teaming up against Xebec pirates is a step in the right direction but again we don't know what went down. The old days will always be looked at with rose coloured glasses, this is the case irl as well.

Post automatically merged: Jul 20, 2024

Him taking ACoC punches from an Old Garp means nothing, Kuzan doesn't ACoC, neither does Kizaru, neither will Akainu

It doesn't matter if they don't have ACoC themselves if they can just eat AdCoC like that anyway. AdCoC is just an increase in AP, what matters is how they handle it, not what their stat sheet looks like.

If they handle it through hax, through stats, through AdCoC itself, through their DF, these are all means to an end, the sum of your parts > the parts themselves.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Who exactly, this guy punches holes in giant awakening zoans like its nothing, if he tags anyone its gg

It depends on the character. Some of the Gorosei have particularly fragile bodies, and they don't even bother defending due to their regeneration capabilities.

Spoiler

This hardly means anything in fights against the other characters. So far Luffy can't beat any of the Gorosei, or IM, and likely can't beat BB, Shanks, Mihawk, Dragon, Kuzan, Kizaru, Akainu, etc.

 

[L57]

Kuzan was potrayed to have raw (haki off) punching strenght relative to Prime Garp (or at very least the version of Garp from 12 years ago considering the flaskback timeline). This is not hyperbole, this is literally how the flashback presented it with Kuzan's punch slowly progressing to making the exact same sound as those of Garp's.
Based on that point Garp is clearly not some kind of untouchable god that can't be matched by any other marine for Oda.
Garp obviously has more haki prowess going for him, but Kuzan has a busted logia that is fully mastered.
I still have Prime Garp above Kuzan, but Kuzan being equal or surpassing him would not be surprise me either.
If you believe brawling is Kuzan main fighting style, that Garp implying twice that Kuzan might have went soft against his former mentor didn't mean anything and these were just taunts, and that he absolutely went all out in Hachinosu, then yeah it'd be hard for him to be Prime Garp level

But Kuzan having shown his full arsenal seems unlikely to me, even more after that final spread presenting him as being one of the important players of the final saga. Oda isn't really the type to have characters show everything they have before it's their main/final moment. (We had to wait til Onigashima to learn that Big Mom could use souls on herself to power herself up and heal herself despite spending over 80 chapters with her on WCI)

How do we know its comparable?
Garp was also training with mountains

 

[Dragon777]

But Kizaru... someone who was portrayed on par with Aokiji & Akainu, does not?

I am quite flabbergasted by that, but yes, It seems.

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

Kuzan was potrayed to have raw (haki off) punching strenght relative to Prime Garp (or at very least the version of Garp from 12 years ago considering the flaskback timeline). This is not hyperbole, this is literally how the flashback presented it with Kuzan's punch slowly progressing to making the exact same sound as those of Garp's.

Tf i'm reading man ,Oda portrayed Aokiji's raw strength on Old Garp level , He matched an Old Weakened Garp's punch in a clash.

 

[ZenZu]

Tf i'm reading man ,Oda portrayed Aokiji's raw strength on Old Garp level , He matched an Old Weakened Garp's punch in a clash.

Even if that's the case, is that not insane to you?

Most people, me included, had Old Garp as the physically strongest character in the verse. He held the best feats alongside Jozu in this regard, Kuzan coming out of left field to even be in this convo is ridiculous.

 

[Nadel]

I mean mihawk doesnt want to change the world,doesnt want op etc + he s stronger than all those characters in the spread aside from imu and maybe dragon

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

Even if that's the case, is that not insane to you?

Most people, me included, had Old Garp as the physically strongest character in the verse. He held the best feats alongside Jozu in this regard, Kuzan coming out of left field to even be in this convo is ridiculous.

Having that raw strength is still good for an admiral like how Kizaru has a top tier swordmanship , each admiral got a thing aside his main DF Power but you all trynna making aokiji like he's Prime Garp + a DF User lol while his raw strength is below Prime Garp and only matched Old Weakened Garp at the end .

 

[ZenZu]

Having that raw strength is still good for an admiral like how Kizaru has a top tier swordmanship , each admiral got a thing aside his main DF Power but you all trynna making aokiji like he's Prime Garp + a DF User lol while his raw strength is below Prime Garp and only matched Old Weakened Garp at the end .

Even Old Garp + Top Tier Logia is good enough to make a case he beats Prime Garp tbh. That's my case for Kuzan.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Him taking ACoC punches from an Old Garp means nothing, Kuzan doesn't ACoC, neither does Kizaru, neither will Akainu

They were nameless punches to begin with and pizarro tanked a stronger attack in galaxy divide. Old garp's AP was not that good to begin with. So it does not hypes Kuzan that much.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Even if that's the case, is that not insane to you?

Most people, me included, had Old Garp as the physically strongest character in the verse. He held the best feats alongside Jozu in this regard, Kuzan coming out of left field to even be in this convo is ridiculous.

Aokiji (or any admiral) vs Old Garp fists only thread would have been considered a spite thread anywhere else prior to Hachinosu lmao.

 

[Wizak08]

This is circular reasoning, you are already assuming Roger is capable of mid diffing Kuzan, and basing all of your other opinions around this fact. When I'm asking you how that is a fact in the first place?

Regarding Kuzan vs WB, that is a bad matchup for him. So yea WB can potentially mid diff Kuzan.

Regarding Garp being equals with Roger and Whitebeard. I just don't have enough context of what was going on, and how their fights went down. From word of mouth and overall portrayal it suggests RogerBeard were a cut above anyone else

If you're cut above someone, then you even fight them several times with intent to kill because one time would suffice seeing as you'll be able to defeat them
I will go with this until proven otherwise. Though Garp and Roger teaming up against Xebec pirates is a step in the right direction but again we don't know what went down. The old days will always be looked at with rose coloured glasses, this is the case irl as well.

Post automatically merged: Jul 20, 2024

It doesn't matter if they don't have ACoC themselves if they can just eat AdCoC like that anyway. AdCoC is just an increase in AP, what matters is how they handle it, not what their stat sheet looks like.

Are we really comparing a old man ACoC to prime Roger? Garp seeing talked about how he got weak several times through the manga. His AP should be nowhere near prime Roger. We saw Kidd take multiple attacks from Big Mom yet a single ACoC sword attack was enough for Shanks. Due to swordsman lethality, they should be a clear difference to how many attacks Kuzan can withstand from Roger.

If they handle it through hax, through stats, through AdCoC itself, through their DF, these are all means to an end, the sum of your parts > the parts themselves.

 

[MonsterKaido]

In their 3 on panel exchanges , old garp looked better in 2 of them and one of them was a tie. That too with BBPs backing Kuzan. Its pretty clear endurance aside , old garp looked superior that Kuzan. And prime garp is 3x old garp probably.

Current Old garp is also retired.

Kuzan needs to show much better feats or need to have awakening/adv coc etc for things to change.

 

[ZenZu]

@Wizak08
Yes I am factoring in Garp being old. Garp being old is the only reason I will say Prime Garp can be an extreme diff in favour of Kuzan. If that was Garp's full power I would say a full power Kuzan can arguably mid diff him.

Kuzan hesitating and holding back a potential awakening more than makes up for Garp being old. It pretty much cancels out.

 

[Wizak08]

Here's Garp commenting on how those cannonballs don't fly half as fast as they used too, and this is two years before they fought so his physical strength should be even more reduced. It's not crazy to say that Garp's current AP is about 40% of his prime, at least less than 50%.

 

[ConquistadoR]

I am quite flabbergasted by that, but yes, It seems.

Which is the problem here.
For me, all 5 are portrayed the same... an OP DF ability and some specialized combat style (Aokiji's brawling, Kizaru's defense, Fujitora being a Supreme Blade swordsman etc,.).

Unless, Oda goes on to show Aokiji & Akainu as way superior to Kizaru... i dont have reason to believe that those two alone are CoC users and Kizaru isnt.

 

[Dragon777]

Which is the problem here.
For me, all 5 are portrayed the same... an OP DF ability and some specialized combat style (Aokiji's brawling, Kizaru's defense, Fujitora being a Supreme Blade swordsman etc,.).

Unless, Oda goes on to show Aokiji & Akainu as way superior to Kizaru... i dont have reason to believe that those two alone are CoC users and Kizaru isnt.

If you want to find a loophole, there are some who are FA material and some who aren't.

That could be It.

 

[ZenZu]

Which is the problem here.
For me, all 5 are portrayed the same... an OP DF ability and some specialized combat style (Aokiji's brawling, Kizaru's defense, Fujitora being a Supreme Blade swordsman etc,.).

Unless, Oda goes on to show Aokiji & Akainu as way superior to Kizaru... i dont have reason to believe that those two alone are CoC users and Kizaru isnt.

Oda doesn't really care about this stuff.

He found a way for Roger and WB to be equals despite the Gura, he found a way for Garp to be about on par with them with no df and no weapon, when they also have maxed out haki themselves.

Wouldn't even be surprised if only Akainu has AdCoC but still went 10 days extreme diff with Kuzan who doesn't.

 

[ConquistadoR]

If you want to find a loophole, there are some who are FA material and some who aren't.

That could be It.

Maybe, that remains to be seen. As i said, if Oda goes ahead and gives Aokiji and Akainu CoC, that is definitely the case.

Until then, i dont really see a difference between FA level & Admiral level.

Post automatically merged: Jul 20, 2024

Oda doesn't really care about this stuff.

He found a way for Roger and WB to be equals despite the Gura, he found a way for Garp to be about on par with them with no df and no weapon, when they also have maxed out haki themselves.

Wouldn't even be surprised if only Akainu has AdCoC but still went 10 days extreme diff with Kuzan who doesn't.

He only really established that Roger & WB are equals. He never really went out & said a DF-less WB is on par with Roger, Roger can be superior in more ways than one when compared to a DF-less WB. Heck, i'd even bet on Roger being a Fs user like Shanks, but i dont feel confident saying the same for WB.

As i said, when Akainu & Aokiji get their time to shine, we'll know for sure.

 

[JDragon20]

Tf i'm reading man ,Oda portrayed Aokiji's raw strength on Old Garp level , He matched an Old Weakened Garp's punch in a clash.

I have no stakes here but to be fair to Kuzan he punched Garp with his burnt arm and he's been inactive for at least two years.