Speculations Law and Kidd Defeating Big Mom (Why At This Point Its The Most Logical For Them To Win)

[ZenZu]

Kaido and Big Mom will fall at the same time. It won’t be one before or after another

That'd be really cool. That climax alone would make Wano an arc to remember.

But it's Oda, so don't hold your breath, the guy starts having withdrawal symptoms when Luffy isn't being singled out on panel. And this is the biggest moment in Luffy's pirate career, by far.

Oda hasn't budged for over 2 decades, hard to believe he does it now when it matters most (even though the evidence is piling up). The most he does is give minor Ws to side characters before he sends them off to witness and bathe in Luffy's greatness. Defeating Big Mom is far from that.
He would probably be hospitalized if he drew that, coughing up blood and shit, maybe he pulls it off but he's gonna need a lot of willpower. Just imagine a die hard Luffy fan on this forum drawing One Piece, that's more or less Oda, think of it like this and you'll never deal in absolutes.

 

[ReggieZoldyck21]

Oda hasn't budged for over 2 decades, hard to believe he does it now when it matters most (even though the evidence is piling up). The most he does is give minor Ws to side characters before he sends them off to witness and bathe in Luffy's greatness. Defeating Big Mom is far from that.
He would probably be hospitalized if he drew that, coughing up blood and shit, maybe he pulls it off but he's gonna need a lot of willpower. Just imagine a die hard Luffy fan on this forum drawing One Piece, that's more or less Oda, think of it like this and you'll never deal in absolutes.

You ain’t lying lol. Still the set up is definitely here for Big Mom to fall so I’ll stick with my prediction

 

[Ven437]

I have been paying attention to the "flow" of the conversation, and I don't agree with your complaint.

I just find it funny that you state all of these examples, yet are surprised by what you are seeing here.

Even funnier is you saying Luffy beating Doflamingo is bad writing, but then argue because he's the MC and practically God, nobody but Luffy should beat BM.

And no, clearly you haven't read the story, because BM has beef with Kid too. He went to WCI, stole something important and injured one of her commanders. BMs entire focus shifted from Luffy to Kid. Luffy didn't even try and touch BM on the roof, he focused on Kaido.

Just stop the overbearing nonsense, the narrative is fine, you guys just nitpick every miniscule thing so you can bitch and moan on a weekly basis. Luffy does not have to win and be sole victor of everything. Last chapter explained that shit you point blank.

No you have clearly not been following the flow of the convo because you are literally making shit up right now.

Luffy beating Doffy was bad writing because Law had the most history with him, the reason why SHs got involved in Dressrosa was because of Law. Birdcage was bad writing because the tension was stiff and forced. The fuck is this bs about Luffy being God?

I clearly said Kid has little history with BM but you want to compare the whole of WCI arc and Luffy's multiple declarations against BM, from Fishman Island to WCI to even in Wano, to Kidd injuring one of her commanders as payback in one panel that wasnt even relevant to anything narratively speaking


You might as well support ZKK with the mindset you have of pitting Kid against BM and having Kid win.

Post automatically merged: Oct 24, 2021

Allying with kaido is literally the pinnacle of big mom's career, its all downhill after this. I cannot understand why some people care so much about Luffy vs big mom when its abundantly clear that it will be a side battle if it ever happens at all.

Post wano straw hats will already be stronger than the big mom pirates. Luffy will surpass big mom when he defeats kaido this arc. He already handed the Big Mom pirates an L in WCI, he already stole their poneglyph, and by defeating kaido and thereby sinking her alliance, Luffy's handing big mom another L yet again in wano.



It doesn't matter tho. Kaido isn't just another yonko, he's the strongest pirate alive. Kid and Law beating big mom isn't trumping Luffy's feat.

Here's an idea. BM turns weakened Kaido into a homie making her the strongest Yonko and steals the Red Poneglyph along with Nico Robin while SHs chase after her.

That would make more sense and set BM up to be defeated by Luffy per as his promise.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Serious question, did you actually read the chapter? You’re literally talking like Hawkins. Your arguments have the same ending as his character.

I don't base my judgement off a hype moment within a single chapter. I'd rather choose to believe what would narratively make sense, and Big Mom getting defeated as a side character after being built up since Fishman Island, doesn't.

We all know the hidden agenda here. You just want this to happen so you can go on a "Luffy/Law vs Doflamingo and Kidd/Law vs Big Mom" crusade, to elevate Doflamingo.

 

[NAMELESS]

BM needs to fall here.Period.We already had enough of her.Oda still has to set up Shanks and BlackBeard.Kidd and Law will become real rivals to Luffy if BM falls,so Oda will probably do that.Kidd and Law will have a plot in the story moving on,BM won't,her arc is over!Get over it and get hyped for Shanks!

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Just like with Queen and Sanji?
Look how easy he handed him anither power up,qnd is going to deal with him in 2-3 focus chapters .

Oda wants to finish this shit. 7 years ago you might be right,but not now.

I also believed that BM would go to elbaf and Luffy would be the one to get another win against her ,but not beat her phsyically just so he can fullfill the words he said when they first talked. (I am going to beat you all over the new world)
WCI,Wano,Elbaf would be his 3 victories over her and would be all over the new world.


Yet here Oda pulls the narrator to signify great change.
Look how suprised Hawkins is after he pulls Tower.

And how he ends the chapter

Oda doing all that and then trying to one up the readers is what would be bad wiriting and not having Kid and Law beat BM here .

Pulling a card that signifies the "collapse of the old" doesn't mean that Kidd and Law are going to be solely responsible for Big Mom losing. If she does lose, could they play a huge role in it? Of course, but it doesn't mean there won't be outside factors involved. But narratively speaking from what we've seen, it makes no sense for them to pull off a 2 v 1 against Big Mom, even if they are given powerups. At least not losing in the sense that most people think, like straight up KOing her. How anyone could even find this acceptable if it happens, is beyond me.

 

[Ven437]

I don't base my judgement off a hype moment within a single chapter. I'd rather choose to believe what would narratively make sense, and Big Mom getting defeated as a side character after being built up since Fishman Island, doesn't.

We all know the hidden agenda here. You just want this to happen so you can go on a "Luffy/Law vs Doflamingo and Kidd/Law vs Big Mom" crusade, to elevate Doflamingo.

These Doffy fans are on some real shit. Law has already left Doffy in the dust both in terms of greater importance to the story and in terms of power.

 

[Tai long]

These Doffy fans are on some real shit. Law has already left Doffy in the dust both in terms of greater importance to the story and in terms of power.

How does law have more importance than doffy
Law is a D, doffy is a celestial dragon
Law wants to know the secret of the world, doffy know the secret of marijoa

 

[vikas]

Guy making threads about how LOGICAL it is that BM getting defeated by those two is. Well leavinng all that, I don3even think BM will be defeated by anyone let alone Luffy. That is the most probable outcome.

 

[sanjikun]

I don't base my judgement off a hype moment within a single chapter. I'd rather choose to believe what would narratively make sense, and Big Mom getting defeated as a side character after being built up since Fishman Island, doesn't.

We all know the hidden agenda here. You just want this to happen so you can go on a "Luffy/Law vs Doflamingo and Kidd/Law vs Big Mom" crusade, to elevate Doflamingo.

I don't need to elevate anyone. It's quite clear Big Mom took Doffy's "Joker" role in Wano according to Oda's SBS. Law probably would have taken him down either with help from Luffy or Kid in Wano, and Oda is just subbing BM here.

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Rox thing was made up as recently as WCI, and Oda originally intended for BM to go down in WCI. Usually Oda foreshadows shit from like 700 chapters back if he's planned it out.

 

[123456]

I don't need to elevate anyone. It's quite clear Big Mom took Doffy's "Joker" role in Wano according to Oda's SBS. Law probably would have taken him down either with help from Luffy or Kid in Wano, and Oda is just subbing BM here.

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Rox thing was made up as recently as WCI, and Oda originally intended for BM to go down in WCI. Usually Oda foreshadows shit from like 700 chapters back if he's planned it out.

Now Big Mom ~ Doffy

 

[sanjikun]

Now Big Mom ~ Doffy

When did I say that you tool? If he showed up in Wano as Oda originally planned, then obviously Law would not be fighting Big Mom, but Doffy. Law's story has always been tied to the DD family.

 

[123456]

When did I say that you tool? If he showed up in Wano as Oda originally planned, then obviously Law would not be fighting Big Mom, but Doffy. Law's story has always been tied to the DD family.

You were implying that
You are a guy who thinks clown mingo is Admiral level and downplay every damn character,I don't wanna waste my time on you

 

[Finalbeta]

Now Big Mom ~ Doffy

He once claimed that Doffy stood on low admiral tier.

 

[Metal Gear Blackbeard]

Kidd is about to get some good feats in. But I'm not sure if Big Mom is going to fall here.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Kidd is about to get some good feats in. But I'm not sure if Big Mom is going to fall here.

It's the safest assumption, Even if Oda wants to give Kid his moment I'm doubtful Oda would take the risk of Luffy getting overshadowed , which will happen if Kid and Law knock a fresh emperor out. Getting some good feats and stalling Mama till the battle is done is more likely.

 

[Herrera95]

Dude, Oda doesn't work with logic.

Raid will fail, Yonkos will not go down here at Wano. Robin will be taken again.

Oda is setting up even bigger disasters for final war. Strawhats will not go to Laugh Tale all good and then fight the whole world. They will be push it to it in order to protect Robin and Sabo(maybe Shanks).

 

[Kai. Do]

Depends on your definition of defeat. I'm 50/50 on big mom being defeated by Law and Kidd this arc. Even if Big Mom takes the L, there is the chance she could escape and leave Wano to fight another day.

For plot purposes i don't think this will be the last time we see of big mom. I know there is the argument that Wano is the height of Big Mom's career, but a big theme alluded in this arc is betrayal. With Apoo betraying his alliance with Kidd and Hawkins. Kanjuro betrayed Kinemon, Kaido betraying Orochi and Denjiro also betraying Kaido. There was also that conversation that occurred between Big Mom and Perospero and his dissatisfaction with her alliance with Kaido, and Big Mom saying she knows what she's doing.

Big Mom is also not honest about the alliance either, as she tries to prod kaido to tell him about his Road Ponegliff while they waited on the roof top before their fight against the Worst Gen happened.

All of these facts are leading me to think that Big Mom will betray Kaido to escape and live to fight another day, if not- then i think that all of this would have been a big waste of time and i'd have to ask Oda what was the point of all this unnecessary setup.

In the WCI arc, Big Mom wanted Luffy to bring his entire crew so they could have a full on showdown and Luffy left WCI with only Cracker and Katakuri defeated. Kaido's crew on the other hand is never coming back after this arc with both the Topi Roppo and Calamites going down this arc, deserters and people who have switched sides like X Drake. The Beast Pirates are ranked by meritocracy, ruled through fear and the Topi Roppo also had some former pirate captains. This pirate crew never had cohesion to begin with and was prone to dissolution from the beginning.

With Big Mom its different. Only Perospero has been defeated so far. The rest of the Big Mom Pirates who accompanied Big Mom to Wano still haven't even entered the war I believe. Charlotte Smoothie and Daifuku are also still on standby i believe. Cracker and Katakuri are also still guarding WCI. Marine's and CP0 are in Wano, while Teach is in a race to get something from the Revos before the marines, so he most likely isn't gonna attack WCI anytime soon.

It would be hard for me to believe Big Mom going down when Smoothie and Katakuri at the minimum are still standing and fine. Some people may say that Katakuri would like to see Big mom defeated, but if anything, i don't think its confirmed to be happening here in the Wano Arc, especially with how Katakuri asked Luffy if he will come back to take down Big Mom and also Big Mom herself told Luffy back in the WCI to have a showdown between their crews when Luffy bought his full crew. Luffy didn't bring his full crew to WCI, and similarly Big Mom didn't bring her full crew to Wano. Neither one properly fulfilled their declaration to each other. This is why I think Big Mom's last stand will be in Elbaf with the full Big Mom Pirates vs the full Straw Hat Crew. Cause even if Luffy and the crew take down Kaido and the Beast Pirates now, it will still be seen as a team effort with the other supernovas and the samurai pirate mink alliance. After Big Mom and Kaido, Teach and the Blackbeard Pirates will be the only Yonko crew left if we don't count Shanks. I think Luffy and the Straw Hat crew would look better going into that fight with a full clean victory against another yonko that doesn't make the mistake of underestimating them under their belt first before facing off Teach and his crew for their final showdown, and Big Mom's last stand in Elbaf with the full Big Mom Pirates vs the full Straw Hat Crew could serve this purpose.

I also don't put much stock in the WorstGen. Teach and Luffy are the only ones that really matter.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Big Mom is falling, but the question of whether Olin rises up still comes. The question with Yonko falling is “then what?” because they’re too big a presence to continue after it, just locked in Impel Down or something. Kaido has all his Whitebeard-like death flags flying around him, but Big Mom’s way out of the story looks to revolve around her fucked up memories and how she has a genuinely nice child form.

So I can see Oda allowing Kid to punch Big Mom so hard that she goes perma-Olin, which effectively defeats her as an Emperor while not being as impressive as what Luffy will do to Kaido

I can also see the same happening via Kid and Law using some tricks to throw her off the island.

Another option is that they just do well against her and that weakens her enough for someone like CP0 to step in or this longrunning “pirates will betray each other” story to have a payoff.

If it’s to be a straight up victory over her in a fight (which I think is far and away the least likely option) Kid and Law will need to do it in a combo while Luffy is doing it solo. And probably other characters should help out.

There’s a lot of reasons to believe that Big Mom as a Yonko is over and done with this arc, but unlike Kaido, she’s still got a role to play in the future with Elbaf and Pudding. Olin‘s the way for that to happen.

 

[sanjikun]

You were implying that
You are a guy who thinks clown mingo is Admiral level and downplay every damn character,I don't wanna waste my time on you

Thanks for telling me what I implied mind reader.

There’s a lot of reasons to believe that Big Mom as a Yonko is over and done with this arc, but unlike Kaido, she’s still got a role to play in the future with Elbaf and Pudding. Olin‘s the way for that to happen.

She has 0 role, otherwise her defeat is meaningless. Katakuri has long been implied as the new leader of the BMPs.

Luffy already got a "win" over her. This time it's the real thing.