General & Others Luffy is LOSING what makes him special with the whole alliance crap

[Sword God Ryuma]

We'll found out who is delusional at the end so let's not turn this thread into a Mihawk power scaling.

It has been multiple times stated that Roger died because of sickness, and you're calling me delusional?

When did i say Roger didn't die because of sickness? I said that Roger could of made friends and alliances during his journey because people were using it to belittle Luffy. You then said that Roger doed of sickness. What does that have anything to do with what i said.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Because Luffy evolves after every Arc, Luffy is YC1+ now, after his 1v1 with a weakened Kaido he would definitely get to another level meaning that on his fight with Big Mom he wouldn't be stronger than her but would most definitely hold his own against her alone and should probably overcome her as he did with her son.
As I said Wano is the Arc that solidifies Luffy as the 5th Emperor, he could very well be the weakest one by that time but he will sure as hell hold his own alone against any of them.

I already said that if Luffy doesn't get another power up in this arc then he will come out of Wano as YC1+ with better endurance, only his endurance will become stronger and that's it. I don't see Luffy defeating Big Mom with that level of strength, regardless of Big Mom's character you're underestimating her too much.
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When did i say Roger didn't die because of sickness? I said that Roger could of made friends and alliances during his journey because people were using it to belittle Luffy. You then said that Roger doed of sickness. What does that have anything to do with what i said.

I can't understand what you mean by that but I don't think that Roger didn't have frends, I'm pretty sure he did but the point of that war was that Shiki trapped Roger cuz he wasn't ready for that. I don't know why we are discussing frends to be honest.

 

[Isaac Netero]

I already said that if Luffy doesn't get another power up in this arc then he will come out of Wano as YC1+ with better endurance, only his endurance will become stronger and that's it. I don't see Luffy defeating Big Mom with that level of strength, regardless of Big Mom's character you're underestimating her too much.

You are the one underestimating Luffy. He will definitely get another Power Up here in Wano and as you said Oda planned to end OP in 5 years and he understands that Luffy needs to be able to deal with them alone after Wano. Also we need to see how Luffy's advanced CoA stands against the Yonko now, grandpa Hyo was pretty sure it would be enough (of course it won't be)... So I guess we will have to wait for now, with the evidence we have now this discussion becomes way too much speculative and nothing solid will come out of this.
My points are:
- Luffy will be able to handle Yonkos alone after Wano
- We do not know how strong Luffy has become with advanced CoA
- Kaido after being weakened or whatever is falling to Luffy in a 1v1
- This is a Arc for the whole crew get to another level powerwise

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

I already said that if Luffy doesn't get another power up in this arc then he will come out of Wano as YC1+ with better endurance, only his endurance will become stronger and that's it. I don't see Luffy defeating Big Mom with that level of strength, regardless of Big Mom's character you're underestimating her too much.
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I can't understand what you mean by that but I don't think that Roger didn't have frends, I'm pretty sure he did the point of that war was that Shiki trapped Roger cuz he wasn't ready for that. I don't know why we are discussing frends to be honest.

Yes he cornered Roger with overwhelming forces. Overwhelming forces matter in this story especially too wear dkwn your opponents.

Luffy is already yc1+ and will be fighting woth Admirals after this arc. The fight with Yonkou and his crew will crew Luffy in many ways, not just endurance.
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You are the one underestimating Luffy. He will definitely get another Power Up here in Wano and as you said Oda planned to end OP in 5 years and he understands that Luffy needs to be able to deal with them alone after Wano. Also we need to see how Luffy's advanced CoA stands against the Yonko now, grandpa Hyo was pretty sure it would be enough (of course it won't be)... So I guess we will have to wait for now, with the evidence we have now this discussion becomes way too much speculative and nothing solid will come out of this.
My points are:
- Luffy will be able to handle Yonkos alone after Wano
- We do not know how strong Luffy has become with advanced CoA
- Kaido after being weakened or whatever is falling to Luffy in a 1v1
- This is a Arc for the whole crew get to another level powerwise

Kaido is getting his head chopped off like Oda is been foreshadowing forever. Most of the times, Oda refers to Kaido head. Not defeating him. Oda loves Dragon getting head cut off and thats the whole reason he even made his firsr Manga "Monsters" He not going to end an Japanese based arc with a Dragon not getting head cut off

 

[Master OF Haki]

You are the one underestimating Luffy. He will definitely get another Power Up here in Wano and as you said Oda planned to end OP in 5 years and he understands that Luffy needs to be able to deal with them alone after Wano. Also we need to see how Luffy's advanced CoA stands against the Yonko now, grandpa Hyo was pretty sure it would be enough (of course it won't be)... So I guess we will have to wait for now, with the evidence we have now this discussion becomes way too much speculative and nothing solid will come out of this.
My points are:
- Luffy will be able to handle Yonkos alone after Wano
- We do not know how strong Luffy has become with advanced CoA
- Kaido after being weakened or whatever is falling to Luffy in a 1v1
- This is a Arc for the whole crew get to another level powerwise

If Luffy will get another power up then he for sure can defeat Kaido in 1v1, we can go back and forth with this forever, but my point still stands... ether way Luffy has 50% of chance defeating Kaido in 1v1 and claiming with 100% certainty that's impossible is doing the same mistake as people who claimed that Luffy will not be able to defeat Katakuri.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

If Luffy will get another power up then he for sure can defeat Kaido in 1v1, we can go back and forth with this forever, but my point still stands... ether way Luffy has 50% of chance defeating Kaido in 1v1 and claiming with 100% certainty that's impossible is doing the same mistake as people who claimed that Luffy will not be able to defeat Katakuri.

Luffy has 0% chance of defeating Kaido with no help.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Yes he cornered Roger with overwhelming forces. Overwhelming forces matter in this story especially too wear dkwn your opponents.

Luffy is already yc1+ and will be fighting woth Admirals after this arc. The fight with Yonkou and his crew will crew Luffy in many ways, not just endurance.
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Kaido is getting his head chopped off like Oda is been foreshadowing forever. Most of the times, Oda refers to Kaido head. Not defeating him. Oda loves Dragon getting head cut off and thats the whole reason he even made his firsr Manga "Monsters" He not going to end an Japanese based arc with a Dragon not getting head cut off

Ok, I agree

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Luffy has 0% chance of defeating Kaido with no help.

Oh. This going to bite you so hard.

 

[Momoheechulkabe9000]

If Luffy will get another power up then he for sure can defeat Kaido in 1v1, we can go back and forth with this forever, but my point still stands... ether way Luffy has 50% of chance defeating Kaido in 1v1 and claiming with 100% certainty that's impossible is doing the same mistake as people who claimed that Luffy will not be able to defeat Katakuri.

Luffy still has not unlocked awakening :smithnie:

 

[Master OF Haki]

Luffy still has not unlocked awakening :smithnie:

Agree.

 

[Isaac Netero]

If Luffy will get another power up then he for sure can defeat Kaido in 1v1, we can go back and forth with this forever, but my point still stands... ether way Luffy has 50% of chance defeating Kaido in 1v1 and claiming with 100% certainty that's impossible is doing the same mistake as people who claimed that Luffy will not be able to defeat Katakuri.

I could only see that happening if this raid actually fails which I don't think it will, in my personal opinion Luffy will get awakening during his late 1v1 with a weakened Kaido and that is what gives Luffy the edge to beat him... And yeah I'm not claiming that it is 100% sure he won't 1v1 but I don't think that's possible if the raid doesn't fail at all.

 

[Master OF Haki]

I could only see that happening if this raid actually fails which I don't think it will, in my personal opinion Luffy will get awakening during his late 1v1 with a weakened Kaido and that is what gives Luffy the edge to beat him... And yeah I'm not claiming that it is 100% sure he won't 1v1 but I don't think that's possible if the raid doesn't fail at all.

I could only see that happening if this raid actually fails which I don't think it will, in my personal opinion Luffy will get awakening during his late 1v1 with a weakened Kaido and that is what gives Luffy the edge to beat him... And yeah I'm not claiming that it is 100% sure he won't 1v1 but I don't think that's possible if the raid doesn't fail at all.

Btw, I do think that act 3 will end with failure since Luffy, Kid, Law are too weak to defeat Kaido right now, they can push Kaido to high diff which is rather optimistic but eventually Kaido will win, especially since there's no one who can take care of Big Mom right now.

 

[WesMidnight]

Luffy has 0% chance of defeating Kaido with no help.

What do you classify as help?
Would you not consider Apoo knocking Luffy out and draining some of his stamina as help?
Unless someone literally cuts off one of Kaido's limbs, and helps with the final attacks that isn't help.
BASIC dragon zoans have super regen,let alone the real mythical dragon, I wouldn't consider even Gamma knife that much of help against Kaido considering it didn't seem to nerf Doflamingo's durability very much at all (redhawk success vs. noselling gear 2 after stitching)

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

What do you classify as help?
Would you not consider Apoo knocking Luffy out and draining some of his stamina as help?
Unless someone literally cuts off one of Kaido's limbs, and helps with the final attacks that isn't help.
BASIC dragon zoans have super regen,let alone the real mythical dragon, I wouldn't consider even Gamma knife that much of help against Kaido considering it didn't seem to nerf Doflamingo's durability very much at all (redhawk success vs. noselling gear 2 after stitching)

Gamma knife was helped and literally got brought up in the middle of the fight. Stop talking BS. Law also stabbed him in the stomach and electrocuted him.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

Because Luffy evolves after every Arc, Luffy is YC1+ now, after his 1v1 with a weakened Kaido he would definitely get to another level meaning that on his fight with Big Mom he wouldn't be stronger than her but would most definitely hold his own against her alone and should probably overcome her as he did with her son.
As I said Wano is the Arc that solidifies Luffy as the 5th Emperor, he could very well be the weakest one by that time but he will sure as hell hold his own alone against any of them.

Assuming the big bitch will become a main villain for a third arc Lmao

If that shit happened, I can already see One Piece in ranking of shonen jump to be the lowest for 2 years during her 3rd arc

Where no one gives a fuck about reading the story hahaha

I will applaud Oda if he even manages to get 3rd of his views currently which is already shrinking Lol

If Oda cares about entertainment

Big Meme, should never be a main arc villain after Wano

That's if he cares about maintaining some fanbase watching the series Lol

 

[WesMidnight]

Gamma knife was helped and literally got brought up in the middle of the fight. Stop talking BS. Law also stabbed him in the stomach and electrocuted him.

It was essentially an Enel heart busting moment, used to hype the antagonist's durability.
It really didn't effect Doflamingo's combat ability for the vast majority of the fight.
I didn't say it wasn't any help in the fight with Doffy, just that it wouldn't be any help against the much tougher Kaido with an insane regeneration rate.

 

[Sanji D Cook]

First of all, Kaido is NOT getting solo'ed by anyone in the Luffy alliance. None of the characters have the hype behind them to defeat Kaido by themselves. Luffy took him on and failed miserably. Kidd also failed. Hoping that Luffy gets another power up is folly. If he does, who to say it will be enough to take down a man who commits suicide as a hobby. Law suggested an alliance because Kaido is an emperor. The WG does not even mess with this man because of his strength. A team up is what is needed to take down someone of Kaido's caliber.

If Luffy takes down Kaido by himself, then it will be expected of him to defeat the rest of his enemies easily going forward. There will be no shame in getting help from the other supernovas. It also helps build up their reputation too. Now there are some characters I like to have a solo fight. Zoro and Sanji need them badly. They need that rub Luffy got when he defeated Doflamingo and Katakuri. Otherwise we end up with a Bleach scenario. The main character receiving all the growth while the rest gets forgotten.

 

[Momoheechulkabe9000]

Btw, I do think that act 3 will end with failure since Luffy, Kid, Law are too weak to defeat Kaido right now, they can push Kaido to high diff which is rather optimistic but eventually Kaido will win, especially since there's no one who can take care of Big Mom right now.

I also wish act 3 to end in a failure cause there are so many loose ends that need to be resolved.

You never know with long running series because asspulls and last minute changes always happen. For instance, there was a subplot to retrieve the keys to open Sanji's handcuffs much like EL but lo and behold Reiju already had one so Oda did not have to draw one vs one fights...

I can already envision Perospero ruining the Kaidu and BM alliance JR Smith style

 

[LolonoisZolo]

Let me just say that... I'm not a big fan of "Tag Team fights"

and I would rather have the author "Expose" a weakness from enemy (like crocodile fight)... in order to give a chance for a weaker individual to take advantage and win in a solo fight than have TEAM FIGHTS

So, my opinion can surely be biased because I do not enjoy team fights as you guys do... and thus I never was entertained by Luffy/Law vs Doffy.... or Luffy/Nami vs Cracker.... Or SHs vs Oars

And it pains me to admit that this seems like the direction Oda will take with Kaido despite my hatred for it

But this is ALSO not the only reason... Luffy and ODA specifically has established what makes Luffy reign as a captain on the SHs crew against Arlong...

Luffy: I do not know how to use swords you idiot, I don't know how to navigate, I don't know how to cook or lie...etc"

Arlong: what makes you special/ or worthy of a captain?

Luffy: I can kick your ass

As simple as that, Luffy has declared that his specialty is WINNING FIGHTS... doesn't matter stronger opponents like Enel/Crocodile or not... he will have one round, 2 rounds, 3 rounds... 100 rounds... he will come back stronger each round or finding new weaknesses UNTIL defeating the opponent... that's the Luffy I knew from chapter 1

Now, I understand that Luffy's trait is making allies too in order to help him... but it WAS NEVER on the account of the boss fight before... and that's what bothers me... as of now, it seems it's only used for that

I know lots of people will reject this... but I think that Luffy SHOULD win against Kaido by himself for a satisfactory payoff...

Note: Power-scaling obsessed people will never understand my point of view...

I totally agree, the problem though is that Luffy has to either ''discover'' a huuuge weakness in Kaido which would be BS; or gets 100times stronger instantly with some kind of BS lol
BS either way thanks to Oda overhyping every single character he introduces...

 

[Formerly Seth]

When did i say Roger didn't die because of sickness? I said that Roger could of made friends and alliances during his journey because people were using it to belittle Luffy. You then said that Roger doed of sickness. What does that have anything to do with what i said.

Sickness > PK/Yonko

 

[Master OF Haki]

I totally agree, the problem though is that Luffy has to either ''discover'' a huuuge weakness in Kaido which would be BS; or gets 100times stronger instantly with some kind of BS lol
BS either way thanks to Oda overhyping every single character he introduces...

Don't worry, Oda already dehyped Kaido by making him a coward and allowing Oden to mid diff him.
:cheers: