General & Others Luffy is LOSING what makes him special with the whole alliance crap

[Sadistic Senpai]

Let me just say that... I'm not a big fan of "Tag Team fights"

and I would rather have the author "Expose" a weakness from enemy (like crocodile fight)... in order to give a chance for a weaker individual to take advantage and win in a solo fight than have TEAM FIGHTS

So, my opinion can surely be biased because I do not enjoy team fights as you guys do... and thus I never was entertained by Luffy/Law vs Doffy.... or Luffy/Nami vs Cracker.... Or SHs vs Oars

And it pains me to admit that this seems like the direction Oda will take with Kaido despite my hatred for it

But this is ALSO not the only reason... Luffy and ODA specifically has established what makes Luffy reign as a captain on the SHs crew against Arlong...

Luffy: I do not know how to use swords you idiot, I don't know how to navigate, I don't know how to cook or lie...etc"

Arlong: what makes you special/ or worthy of a captain?

Luffy: I can kick your ass

As simple as that, Luffy has declared that his specialty is WINNING FIGHTS... doesn't matter stronger opponents like Enel/Crocodile or not... he will have one round, 2 rounds, 3 rounds... 100 rounds... he will come back stronger each round or finding new weaknesses UNTIL defeating the opponent... that's the Luffy I knew from chapter 1

Now, I understand that Luffy's trait is making allies too in order to help him... but it WAS NEVER on the account of the boss fight before... and that's what bothers me... as of now, it seems it's only used for that

I know lots of people will reject this... but I think that Luffy SHOULD win against Kaido by himself for a satisfactory payoff...

Note: Power-scaling obsessed people will never understand my point of view...

 

[Master OF Haki]

Let me just say that... I'm not a big fan of "Tag Team fights"

and I would rather have the author "Expose" a weakness from enemy (like crocodile fight)... in order to give a chance for a weaker individual to take advantage and win in a solo fight than have TEAM FIGHTS

So, my opinion can surely be biased because I do not enjoy team fights as you guys do... and thus I never was entertained by Luffy/Law vs Doffy.... or Luffy/Nami vs Cracker.... Or SHs vs Oars

And it pains me to admit that this seems like the direction Oda will take with Kaido despite my hatred for it

But this is ALSO not the only reason... Luffy and ODA specifically has established what makes Luffy reign as a captain on the SHs crew against Arlong...

Luffy: I do not know how to use swords you idiot, I don't know how to navigate, I don't know how to cook or lie...etc"

Arlong: what makes you special/ or worthy of a captain?

Luffy: I can kick your ass

As simple as that, Luffy has declared that his specialty is WINNING FIGHTS... doesn't matter stronger opponents like Enel/Crocodile or not... he will have one round, 2 rounds, 3 rounds... 100 rounds... he will come back stronger each round or finding new weaknesses UNTIL defeating the opponent... that's the Luffy I knew from chapter 1

Now, I understand that Luffy's trait is making allies too in order to help him... but it WAS NEVER on the account of the boss fight before... and that's what bothers me... as of now, it seems it's only used for that

I know lots of people will reject this... but I think that Luffy SHOULD win against Kaido by himself for a satisfactory payoff...

Note: Power-scaling obsessed people will never understand my point of view...

No matter what people say, using only facts and build up of Wano arc (I'm not going into details here) makes me to believe that Luffy will indeed 1v1 Kaido, and again and again... as I said previously it will be in final round, not now or in near future, but in final round. The way Oda foreshadows Luffy's power ups, the fact that the Ds always do impossible things, the fact that there's also Big Mom that needs to be taken care off, the fact that Oden says that the one who can defeat Kaido will appear in 20 years, the fact that Oda made strong connections between Kid and Big Mom, the fact that Luffy already had a 1v1 with Kaido and was defeated easily, the fact that Luffy vs Kaido was hyped since pank hazard, the fact that even in openings Luffy vs Kaido is portrayed as a 1v1, the fact that in stamped they made team fight effort against Bullet even though movies were never based on power level and They let Zoro fight equally against Fujitora, but Luffy who defeated Shiki in 1v1 needed to defeated Bullet in team fight etc.
All this made me to believe that the fight against Kaido is indeed 1v1, I'm actually sure about that.

 

[uyuu]

Let me just say that... I'm not a big fan of "Tag Team fights"

and I would rather have the author "Expose" a weakness from enemy (like crocodile fight)... in order to give a chance for a weaker individual to take advantage and win in a solo fight than have TEAM FIGHTS

So, my opinion can surely be biased because I do not enjoy team fights as you guys do... and thus I never was entertained by Luffy/Law vs Doffy.... or Luffy/Nami vs Cracker.... Or SHs vs Oars

And it pains me to admit that this seems like the direction Oda will take with Kaido despite my hatred for it

But this is ALSO not the only reason... Luffy and ODA specifically has established what makes Luffy reign as a captain on the SHs crew against Arlong...

Luffy: I do not know how to use swords you idiot, I don't know how to navigate, I don't know how to cook or lie...etc"

Arlong: what makes you special/ or worthy of a captain?

Luffy: I can kick your ass

As simple as that, Luffy has declared that his specialty is WINNING FIGHTS... doesn't matter stronger opponents like Enel/Crocodile or not... he will have one round, 2 rounds, 3 rounds... 100 rounds... he will come back stronger each round or finding new weaknesses UNTIL defeating the opponent... that's the Luffy I knew from chapter 1

Now, I understand that Luffy's trait is making allies too in order to help him... but it WAS NEVER on the account of the boss fight before... and that's what bothers me... as of now, it seems it's only used for that

I know lots of people will reject this... but I think that Luffy SHOULD win against Kaido by himself for a satisfactory payoff...

Note: Power-scaling obsessed people will never understand my point of view...

Imo from both story perspective and powerlevel, Luffy gaining enough individual power beating Kaidou 1 vs 1 would be the very best outcome. Luffy needs this worth for himself.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

Imo from both story perspective and powerlevel, Luffy gaining enough individual power beating Kaidou 1 vs 1 would be the very best outcome. Luffy needs this worth for himself.

I just cannot see Kaido vs a big team ending properly in satisfying way... it will be the most cliche cringiest of cringe shit show

Can you imagine reading this?
- Luffy: Gomu Gomu no....
- Kidd: move aside, you're in my way... Punk Rotten
- Law: you both step aside.... Room
the cliche cringe show of three stooges just pickering at each other

Oh, and My worst nightmare.... Law does Room, shambles.... and Luffy and Kidd do a final combo attack from each side

Please kill me LMAO

And then we have both Luffy and Kidd arguing who dealt the most damage in that attack, or Law acts like he doesn't care about taking credit cause he's a "cool guy"

Ugh!

 

[uyuu]

I just cannot see Kaido vs a big team ending properly in satisfying way... it will be the most cliche cringiest of cringe shit show

Can you imagine reading this?
- Luffy: Gomu Gomu no....
- Kidd: move aside, you're in my way... Punk Rotten
- Law: you both step aside.... Room
the cliche cringe show of three stooges just pickering at each other

Oh, and My worst nightmare.... Law does Room, shambles.... and Luffy and Kidd do a final combo attack from each side

Please kill me LMAO

And then we have both Luffy and Kidd arguing who dealt the most damage in that attack, or Law acts like he doesn't care about taking credit cause he's a "cool guy"

Ugh!

I can imagine your reaction to it just by your comments

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

I can imagine your reaction to it just by your comments

I can imagine Kaido's sadness of being defeated in such a cringe way

Dude would be sitting wishing he can go back in time, and be killed by Oden in a battle of warriors

 

[Dark Hound]

What Luffy said to Arlong doesn’t mean he can’t tag team people

Nor is that implied anywhere in the manga

It just means he needs his crew and allies to advance to where he is

Without the alliance and his crw he would have never reached Kaido let alone the New world

 

[Jo_Ndule]

Oda already said he doesn't want Luffy to win coz his punch is too strong.

It's better to see both Kidd and Luffy beta weakened Kaido wiht their best attacks than Kaido losing to Luffy alone...

We have already SEEN Luffy win against base Kata not because he was stronger or had a strong punch but Willpower /ambition.
Same thing here, he will win against Kaido coz he has allies and willpower not because he is stronger or strong as Kaido.

I see Oda making Luffy beats base Kaido 1 v 1... Not Hybrid Kaido.
That will place him Admiral level, leaving room for Akainu BM & Teach to remain threats.

Luffy couldn't beat Awakened Kata, he could only match Base Kata at best, just like Luffy can't beat hybrid Kaido but will match Base Kaido in their finale.

WCI and Wano are similar
Both Kata and Kaido won't lose coz Luffy has strong punch or is stronger than their base forms or best forms.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Luffy is the individual that will do the most damage against Kaido, and will fight him solo for significant parts of the fight.

But he can't do it totally solo. Not while Kaido his "World's Strongest Creature, always bet on him in a fight" hype. There are still too many enemies in the series to defeat. If Luffy is going into the last 20% of the series as "the strongest man in the world, always bet on him in a fight," then it's simply boring. It'd be like Zoro walking out of Wano already the World's Strongest Swordsman.

It isn't very likely that Oda is going to come out of Wano and say "oh, btw, Kaido is actually weaker than X, Y and Z." That's not his style. He'll give Blackbeard hype by giving him a higher bounty than Kaido, probably Whitebeard's old title and have someone say something like "his power is even greater than Whitebeard's!" or something like that.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Oda already said he doesn't want Luffy to win coz his punch is too strong.

It has nathing to do with team fights, Oda was talking about haki, he doesn't want Luffy to defeat because he has stronger punches but rather samthing different.

Post automatically merged: Jul 12, 2020

But he can't do it totally solo. Not while Kaido his "World's Strongest Creature, always bet on him in a fight" hype. There are still too many enemies in the series to defeat. If Luffy is going into the last 20% of the series as "the strongest man in the world, always bet on him in a fight," then it's simply boring. It'd be like Zoro walking out of Wano already the World's Strongest Swordsman.

First of all, there's no 20%, it's at best 10% Oda wats to get rid off Big Mom and Kaido in one arc as fast as possible hence we have this shit show, don't forget that Oda wants to finish the story in only 5 years.
Second, after Wano there will be only Blackbeard and Marians as antagonists and Blackbeard will be already above Yonko, if Luffy will come out of Wano weaker than Yonko then the gap between Blackbeard and Luffy will too big which will create a lot of plot convinces for Luffy to win the fight against Blackbeard.
Third, Zoro will indeed come out of Wano as strong as Mihawk.

 

[Momoheechulkabe9000]

The fact we have so many powerhouses and characters is making the pace unfocused cause we keep switching scenes and chapters don't have a sense of beginning, middle, and end.

If there is an act 4, I hope Oda takes out most of the rookies to let the straw hats' teamwork shine more

I don't get why people hate FI so much which was the last arc where our main characters shined the most by working as a team which is the essence of the series.

I just love that moment because Luffy has an absolute trust in them much like WB with Marco and Jozu.

 

[Buusatan94]

Luffy is the individual that will do the most damage against Kaido, and will fight him solo for significant parts of the fight.

But he can't do it totally solo. Not while Kaido his "World's Strongest Creature, always bet on him in a fight" hype. There are still too many enemies in the series to defeat. If Luffy is going into the last 20% of the series as "the strongest man in the world, always bet on him in a fight," then it's simply boring. It'd be like Zoro walking out of Wano already the World's Strongest Swordsman.

It isn't very likely that Oda is going to come out of Wano and say "oh, btw, Kaido is actually weaker than X, Y and Z." That's not his style. He'll give Blackbeard hype by giving him a higher bounty than Kaido, probably Whitebeard's old title and have someone say something like "his power is even greater than Whitebeard's!" or something like that.

Yes Kaido is not the usual antagonist and so is Big Mom, it was made clear from the start that the Yonkos were really the big deal compared to Warlords and other antagonists who aren't admirals or Fleet Admiral of the Navy.
Plus when we know how strong a Yonko crew it was obvious during WCI arc and this arc that the Straw Hats alone would have no chance to beat one without many and very strong allies.
Plus there are so many people who have a beef against Kaido such as the Kozuki Family, the Scabbards, the Kid Pirates and other supernovas that it's impossible that Luffy will be alone at fighting him in the climax of Wano arc.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

Oda already said he doesn't want Luffy to win coz his punch is too strong.

It's better to see both Kidd and Luffy beta weakened Kaido wiht their best attacks than Kaido losing to Luffy alone...

We have already SEEN Luffy win against base Kata not because he was stronger or had a strong punch but Willpower /ambition.
Same thing here, he will win against Kaido coz he has allies and willpower not because he is stronger or strong as Kaido.

I see Oda making Luffy beats base Kaido 1 v 1... Not Hybrid Kaido.
That will place him Admiral level, leaving room for Akainu BM & Teach to remain threats.

Luffy couldn't beat Awakened Kata, he could only match Base Kata at best, just like Luffy can't beat hybrid Kaido but will match Base Kaido in their finale.

WCI and Wano are similar
Both Kata and Kaido won't lose coz Luffy has strong punch or is stronger than their base forms or best forms.

You guys use Oda's statement for you own agenda
in the same breathe... oda said "Luffy will have to find a solution for Kaido" and not "Luffy will have to find teammates for Kaido" LMAO

Luffy's punch was strong is surely what oda doesn't want to do... but it can simply mean SO MANY things than just having bunch of allies... it can mean he needs to learn specific techniques that is NOT RAW POWER related....
It can mean he needs to learn to use ELEMENTAL attacks
It can mean Luffy needs to find weakness in kaido's defenses and use it for his advanatge

So, you guys ditched all those fucking possibilities and just assumed, and concluded that Oda just means he needs bunch of allies... when oda himself concluded that "Luffy and I will need to find a solution really soon"

Post automatically merged: Jul 12, 2020

Luffy is the individual that will do the most damage against Kaido, and will fight him solo for significant parts of the fight.

But he can't do it totally solo. Not while Kaido his "World's Strongest Creature, always bet on him in a fight" hype. There are still too many enemies in the series to defeat. If Luffy is going into the last 20% of the series as "the strongest man in the world, always bet on him in a fight," then it's simply boring. It'd be like Zoro walking out of Wano already the World's Strongest Swordsman.

It isn't very likely that Oda is going to come out of Wano and say "oh, btw, Kaido is actually weaker than X, Y and Z." That's not his style. He'll give Blackbeard hype by giving him a higher bounty than Kaido, probably Whitebeard's old title and have someone say something like "his power is even greater than Whitebeard's!" or something like that.

Always bet on Kaido does not mean 100% victorious
a bet is a gamble
Kaido simply has HIGHER chance of winning, but he can LOSE in solo too... even while being stronger... thus the 7 losses...and thus why Oden was beating his ass

You guys say "Luffy defeating him would make no sense cause it would negate the 1 vs 1 bet on Kaido" when IT IS NOT... specially since Oden was gonna win 1 vs 1 against him before... and specially since BETS ARE GAMBLES... it's not a FACTUAL statement that he nevr loses 1 vs 1

It's simply again, a GAMBLE of betting.. possibility of lesser percentage winning is probable

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I'm all in for a 1v1 fight too. My issue is not that luffy is losing his "thing", I'm more under the impression that it is his crew.
When you look at what they did in Alabasta or Enies Lobby, I had the feeling that they were the only crew capable of accomplishing what they did, and the people around the world considered them special and dangerous.

Now with so many allies, I see luffy ahead of the others and his crewmates drowned among all his allies.

That's why I think the other supernova and minks should get crushed or get minor fights while the straw hats shine the most in relevant 1v1.

They have to become relevant as a crew again.

 

[Master OF Haki]

People do really think that Oda is going give a screen time to all character and I strongly disagree, just like in mareanford most of the characters will fight off screene and the only ones that will get screene time will be Marco, Supernovas and the strowhats.

 

[Natalija]

No. I don't really agree with this opening post at all.

It's called character development. Luffy finally learned that even in battles he cannot carry the burden alone, EVEN THOUGH he'd like to.

Did you miss the whole of Impel Down and Marineford where he had absolute faith that he'll save Ace to just fail miserably even though he had considerable help he didn't ask for? Or that even his whole crew understood that it meant they had to step up as individuals and as a team?

These are some of the valuable lessons he learned. Why you want Luffy to be the one dimensional "I'll beat all my opponents" character is beyond me.

 

[Esc]

I'm okay with Luffy having help against Kaido, simply because the manga wouldn't have a sense of threat left if the MC is able to 1 vs 1 the world's strongest in fair fight. Luffy is doing fine overall.
He gonna do most of the work anyway but I do agree with @Luffy is the mc about the crew not giving the cool feel they used to give. I used to have the impression that I was following the crew of a pirate king in making yet despite the 2 years training they are less impressive as a group now than 2 years ago lol. I've been following the series and the crew growth and it doesn't feel rewarding at all.

 

[WesMidnight]

Luffy will finish Kaido off in a 1vs1 in one way or another, whatever the people here think.

 

[Bil02]

I just cannot see Kaido vs a big team ending properly in satisfying way... it will be the most cliche cringiest of cringe shit show

Can you imagine reading this?
- Luffy: Gomu Gomu no....
- Kidd: move aside, you're in my way... Punk Rotten
- Law: you both step aside.... Room
the cliche cringe show of three stooges just pickering at each other

Oh, and My worst nightmare.... Law does Room, shambles.... and Luffy and Kidd do a final combo attack from each side

Please kill me LMAO

And then we have both Luffy and Kidd arguing who dealt the most damage in that attack, or Law acts like he doesn't care about taking credit cause he's a "cool guy"

Ugh!

Lol your scenario is actually funny as hell though.
I will personallly like something like that.

 

[Xione]

You say power-scaling people will never understand your point of view, but it's usually the powerscaling obsessed people who wants the 1v1s lol.


What made Luffy special has never been his way of winning 1v1s, if we're speaking within the context of the story since the start. Rather his ability to get people to ally with him, as pointed out by Dracule at MF, and Ivankov. It has also simply been about overcoming odds and finishing off a person even with help, something established pre-TS and early on in the manga.

Against Enel: He needed Nami's help to even have a chance at fighting the dude.
Against Lucci: He needed Franky's help to turn the tables around, otherwise would've been killed off by Lucci
Against Moria: Had shit ton of help
Against Magellan : help help
Marineford: help help


The pure 1v1 thing hasn't really existed for him since Alabasta?