Versus Battle Mereoleona Vermillion VS Yami Sukehiro

[Gol D. Roger]

We talking about the same Mereoleona who burned through one of Yami’s signature attacks with a casual punch right? You’re saying this Mereoleona wouldn’t be able to counter Yami?

Rhya had to heal himself after every single attack from Mereo. Really there is no evidence that Mereo wouldn’t just one shot Yami or otherwise severely wound him with each attack she lands on him while easily burning every one of Yami’s spells to ash.

Yami is the one who needs to prove he can counter Mereoleona, she has already proven that she can easily counter Yami because she is at least a tier above him in strength.

Mereoleona burned through a water-downed version of one of Yami's most basic attacks. So to assume she can burn literally everything in his arsenal based on that alone is reaching. Yami has FS now and he has speed to keep up with a guy who can literally bend space to his will. The combination of FS and phenomenal speed is what makes Lord Julius as deadly as he is and Yami is pretty high on the ladder in this regard even if he's not quite on Julius level. Mereoleona has no answer to this combination. Ain't no way you're convincing me or anyone in this thread that she's going to magically outclass him when her best speed feat is her reacting to Raia's light which Yami did somewhere during chapter 50's or 60's. Yami displayed superior reaction speed feats in the same arc in which she reacted to light speed.

Speed isn't the only area where he has her beat. She has no answer to Black Moon which can erase spells or Black Hole that can suck in even light and momentarily immobilize the attacker?(skimmed through these chapters only once so I can't recall exact details). You're not going to tell me she can just burn em all because she burned a lightless slash which wasn't even from Yami, are you? Even if she can burn through all of Yami's spells which doesn't even make any sense in the first place; Yami can still one shot her via dimension slash or death thrust both of which can't be countered with fire.

Yami's arsenal is filled with abilities way too broken and he's too skilled to not to be able to make use of them even against Mereoleona. Even when you look at the opponents they fought, Yami has the clear edge over her because he fought and basically won against someone far stronger than anyone Mereoleona has ever fought. Even now, her best feats are against one of many minions of Dante while Yami defeated the main-boss himself so we have no reason to place her above current Yami.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Mereoleona has no answer to this combination.

Sure she does. Yami’s FS was limited from the moment it was introduced to us. The extent of his ability was that he could fight on par with Patri for a time but would ultimately lose. Not that Mereoleona has shown any handicaps when it comes to fighting Light Magic users in the first place.

Mereoleona had 5 Elven level beings dripping sweat from when they were all ganging up on her, including Elven Rhya, who was as strong as Yami was 2 whole power-ups ago.

Ain't no way you're convincing me or anyone in this thread that she's going to magically outclass him when her best speed feat is her reacting to Raia's light which Yami did somewhere during chapter 50's or 60's. Yami displayed superior reaction speed feats in the same arc in which she reacted to light speed.

Mereoleona is handily beating Yami in this poll, I don’t think it’s me who needs to convince the thread of anything, the thread seems to be leaning quite hard to Mereo which is the correct choice.

Mereoleona’s real best feat is, like I said, holding off 5 Elven level beings at once including Rhya and almost killing them all in the end anyway. Yami’s best feat is openly admitting that he would stand no chance in a fight against Dante without Asta to help him. There is no reason to believe that current Yami is even as strong as pre-timeskip Mereoleona.

She has no answer to Black Moon which can erase spells or Black Hole that can suck in even light and momentarily immobilize the attacker?

She would literally just burn black moon to ash and press on like nothing. Again, just her base firepower is arguably enough to overcome Yami’s Darkness. Rhya’s power was half of Yami’s, but the spell itself was literally identical, meaning Mereolrona’s flames are a tier above Yami’s Darkness before we even discuss her actual attack spells like Calidos Brachium or Pergatory Flame. Let alone Hellflame incarnate which would probably give Yami the same treatment that Dante was giving him before Asta intervened.

You're not going to tell me she can just burn em all because she burned a lightless slash which wasn't even from Yami, are you?

Of course I am, and I explained above why there is no reason to believe anything less. Yami is lucky if Mereo deems him worthy of anything above Mana Zone Calidos Brachium which was destroying 3 Eye Rhya, a stronger combatant than pre-TS Yami.

Yami can still one shot her via dimension slash or death thrust both of which can't be countered with fire.

I’m going to make 2 points here:

1. Death Thrust really doesn’t add anything to Yami’s arsenal, his Dimension Slash was already capable of one shotting any opponent before he even came up with Death Thrust. It is a redundant move that does nothing to make Yami stronger, and just gives him an extra tool that he really didn’t need in the first place. Mereoleona literally became Mana last chapter, might I add lol.

2. Mereoleona would one shot Yami 10/10 times before he could dream of one shotting her. Mereoleona isn’t an over-confident power junkie like Dante, she won’t just stare at him while he launches attacks that she considers herself too strong for. She’ll bend Yami over and spank him before his katana even leaves its sheathe.

Yami's arsenal is filled with abilities way too broken and he's too skilled to not to be able to make use of them even against Mereoleona.

Yami has never shown a single move or ability to broken for Mereoleona, while Mereoleona almost one shot 5 Elven combatants simultaneously before she had done her lava training to literally become Mana itself, a technique that the Wizard Kings themselves have shown no hint of being able to pull off. And please no cap about Yami being = to Julius in the Yami fandom’s fanfic.

Yami has the clear edge over her because he fought and basically won against someone far stronger than anyone Mereoleona has ever fought.

Yami openly said that he stood no chance against Dante without Asta. Pre-timeskip Mereoleona obliterated a guy stronger than Yami before she even unlocked her most recent ability that not even the Wizard Kings have unlocked.

Even now, her best feats are against one of many minions of Dante while Yami defeated the main-boss himself so we have no reason to place her above current Yami.

This minion of Dante would squash Yami like an ant, I don’t know why you’re insistent about putting Yami on Dante’s level when Yami himself would bust out laughing if he heard how high you’re ranking him.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Sure she does. Yami’s FS was limited from the moment it was introduced to us. The extent of his ability was that he could fight on par with Patri for a time but would ultimately lose. Not that Mereoleona has shown any handicaps when it comes to fighting Light Magic users in the first place.

Mereoleona had 5 Elven level beings dripping sweat from when they were all ganging up on her, including Elven Rhya, who was as strong as Yami was 2 whole power-ups ago.



Mereoleona is handily beating Yami in this poll, I don’t think it’s me who needs to convince the thread of anything, the thread seems to be leaning quite hard to Mereo which is the correct choice.

Mereoleona’s real best feat is, like I said, holding off 5 Elven level beings at once including Rhya and almost killing them all in the end anyway. Yami’s best feat is openly admitting that he would stand no chance in a fight against Dante without Asta to help him. There is no reason to believe that current Yami is even as strong as pre-timeskip Mereoleona.



She would literally just burn black moon to ash and press on like nothing. Again, just her base firepower is arguably enough to overcome Yami’s Darkness. Rhya’s power was half of Yami’s, but the spell itself was literally identical, meaning Mereolrona’s flames are a tier above Yami’s Darkness before we even discuss her actual attack spells like Calidos Brachium or Pergatory Flame. Let alone Hellflame incarnate which would probably give Yami the same treatment that Dante was giving him before Asta intervened.



Of course I am, and I explained above why there is no reason to believe anything less. Yami is lucky if Mereo deems him worthy of anything above Mana Zone Calidos Brachium which was destroying 3 Eye Rhya, a stronger combatant than pre-TS Yami.



I’m going to make 2 points here:

1. Death Thrust really doesn’t add anything to Yami’s arsenal, his Dimension Slash was already capable of one shotting any opponent before he even came up with Death Thrust. It is a redundant move that does nothing to make Yami stronger, and just gives him an extra tool that he really didn’t need in the first place. Mereoleona literally became Mana last chapter, might I add lol.

2. Mereoleona would one shot Yami 10/10 times before he could dream of one shotting her. Mereoleona isn’t an over-confident power junkie like Dante, she won’t just stare at him while he launches attacks that she considers herself too strong for. She’ll bend Yami over and spank him before his katana even leaves its sheathe.



Yami has never shown a single move or ability to broken for Mereoleona, while Mereoleona almost one shot 5 Elven combatants simultaneously before she had done her lava training to literally become Mana itself, a technique that the Wizard Kings themselves have shown no hint of being able to pull off. And please no cap about Yami being = to Julius in the Yami fandom’s fanfic.



Yami openly said that he stood no chance against Dante without Asta. Pre-timeskip Mereoleona obliterated a guy stronger than Yami before she even unlocked her most recent ability that not even the Wizard Kings have unlocked.



This minion of Dante would squash Yami like an ant, I don’t know why you’re insistent about putting Yami on Dante’s level when Yami himself would bust out laughing if he heard how high you’re ranking him.

I give up

 

[One of Two]

I give up

You shouldn't have given up, you made some really good points.

@Admiral Lee Hung

Sure she does. Yami’s FS was limited from the moment it was introduced to us. The extent of his ability was that he could fight on par with Patri for a time but would ultimately lose. Not that Mereoleona has shown any handicaps when it comes to fighting Light Magic users in the first place.

Did you really trying to use feats from the begining of the series and pass them of as if Yami has not improved at all over all of those chapters? Since that fight with Patry, Yami has learned how to use Mana Zone in addition to his Ki reading. He now has two techniques that give him precognition, while Mereo only has Mana Zone.

Mereoleona is handily beating Yami in this poll, I don’t think it’s me who needs to convince the thread of anything, the thread seems to be leaning quite hard to Mereo which is the correct choice.

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacious way of debating.

Mereoleona’s real best feat is, like I said, holding off 5 Elven level beings at once including Rhya and almost killing them all in the end anyway.

Mereolena was NOWERE NEAR killing any of the elves, all she managed is make them use some mana to defend themselves, they were mocking her.

It was still a very impressive showing for her, showing her perseverance and unbending spirit, and pre-ts Yami wouldn't have fared better in my opinion, but we aren't arguing for pre-timeskip versions of the characters.

Yami’s best feat is openly admitting that he would stand no chance in a fight against Dante without Asta to help him. There is no reason to believe that current Yami is even as strong as pre-timeskip Mereoleona.

Bruuuh, like Mereo will fair any better against Dante... He would mop the floor with her.

She would literally just burn black moon to ash and press on like nothing. Again, just her base firepower is arguably enough to overcome Yami’s Darkness.

Black Moon EATS UP SPELLS. Dante's gravity can bend space and form Black Holes, yet he was still unable to overpowering Black Moon, you realy think Mereoleona's one feat of burning a copy of Yami's most basic spell that she herself even said is nowhere near the original is somehow enough of a proof? You really think Mereo has more power than Dante? Just a tiny amount of Vanica's Devil mana was capable of doing this and its more impressive than anything Mereo has ever done.

Death Thrust really doesn’t add anything to Yami’s arsenal, his Dimension Slash was already capable of one shotting any opponent before he even came up with Death Thrust. It is a redundant move that does nothing to make Yami stronger, and just gives him an extra tool that he really didn’t need in the first place. Mereoleona literally became Mana last chapter, might I add lol.

That is plain wrong. Death Thrust is way more powerful as it causes a wider area of erasure, but the speed is what makes this technique truly terrifying. Dante had no problems dodging Yami's Dimension Slash, but Death Thrust is so fast that Dante couldn't evade it even a single time throughout the fight. Every time Yami fired one of these puppies, Dante turned into flying limbs. Mereo has no counter to this ability, its too fast to dodge and its impossible for her to take it and live to tell the tale.

This minion of Dante would squash Yami like an ant, I don’t know why you’re insistent about putting Yami on Dante’s level when Yami himself would bust out laughing if he heard how high you’re ranking him.

Nah, A single Equinox would clip that Giant Ass Demon in two.
Yami might not be on Dante's level but he sure gave him the best fight Dante has ever had. Dante was straight up praising Yami.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

@One of Two don't think I didn't read all of your comment, I did, there's just a lot of conjecture and I'll try to respond with my own opinion without saturating everything with quotes.

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacious way of debating.

Argumentum ad populum is using the fact that many people believe a certain thing to be true, as evidence that the thing itself is true.

That's not at all what I was doing.

Roger stated that I would have a hard time convincing the thread of a certain perspective. All I did was point out that the thread was already on my side to begin with and thus there wasn't anything I needed to convince the majority of the thread on.

The fact that most here believe Mereoleona > Yami is not evidence that she is. There is plenty of other evidence that Mereoleona is above Yami.

Bruuuh, like Mereo will fair any better against Dante... He would mop the floor with her.

We are getting into the realm of opinion hardcore here, but I think it's plainly obvious that Yami is not on Mereoleona's current level.

The best I'm willing to give Yami based on his portrayal, is that he is overall about equal to Vangeance, who I would say is probably the strongest captain overall atm, probably followed closely by Nozel and Fuegoleon given that they got some pretty major powerups during the Zagred war. There really is nothing in the entire manga that evidences Yami being stronger than any other Clover Captain. In fact, the extent of the arguments I've seen online for people who argue that Yami is above the other captains are as follows:

1. Tabata draws Yami more often than any other captain
2. Yami is the most popular captain
3. Yami can surpass his limits

1&2 aren't even real arguments so I won't bother responding to them. 3 isn't really an argument for Yami's strength at any given moment, it's more an argument on the fact that Yami has a very high power ceiling which means he may wind up at Wizard King level eventually (I think he will, sure, why not lol.)

But other than this, there is literally 0 evidence within the Manga that Yami is above any of the other captains in strength, and hint hint, he isn't.

Mereoleona, is demonstrably much stronger than any current Clover Captain. She demolished 3rd Eye Opened Rhya while the other captains overall are roughly on par with base Rhya and the other base members of the 3rd Eye. This was pre-timeskip before Mereoleona had unlocked arguably the most advanced powerup in the entire series (girl literally became Mana last chapter, tf).

In my opinion, current Mereoleona is low-Wizard King level, which means she pushes Dante much harder than Yami did and may even win. I can't really substantiate this with anything other than what I've already posted here previously, but I think the argument is more sound than anything posted in favor of Yami in this thread and almost all other Yami threads.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

You shouldn't have given up, you made some really good points.

@Admiral Lee Hung

This happens every time I argue with Lee. I don't wanna fight that persistent bastard and his lengthy ass arguments.

Roger stated that I would have a hard time convincing the thread of a certain perspective. All I did was point out that the thread was already on my side to begin with and thus there wasn't anything I needed to convince the majority of the thread on.

I must say I went overboard when I said you can't convince everyone else even when I know everyone but me is on your side. I was being a dumbass there lmao

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

Mereoleona really put hee up high again after the last chapter but I still hold my hype down until I see her against a top Dark Triade member like Dante or Zeno. We need a directly battle with can help us to assume Mereoleona and Yami powerlvl. For now I have both one of the strongest after Julius.

 

[One of Two]

Well, it seems the latest episode of the Anime had the same question as us. We got a fight between Yami and Mereoleona.

EP 156

Its pre-time skip, so Yami doesn't really know how to fully utilize Mana Zone and Mereo doesn't have her Hellfire yet. Its also a training so both held back on their strongest moves, but it kinda shows they were roughly equal, with Mereoleona holding an advantage troughout most of the fight unil the very end when Yami starts to take over.

Oh, this whole shabang is non-cannon, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Oh, this whole shabang is non-cannon fan-service, so ignore it entirely.

I fixed this for you
:cheers:

 

[One of Two]

I fixed this for you
:cheers:

ROFL, come on now, we shouldn't completely disreggard the opinions of the people who work closely with Tabata on adapting his manga into motion picture.

 

[Bullet]

After this chapter it's kinda obvious Mereoleona is stronger but i think they are close
Yami pushes her hard maybe close to extreme diff.

 

[PerfectHie]

Whether or not who's stronger between the 2, they are heads and shoulders above the rest.

 

[PerfectHie]

True.

Although I think Hellfire puts Mereo above Yami in terms of speed, versatility, and raw power.

Yami might have more ap but he needs to do Iai or Equinox which I doubt Mereoleona would allow him to do.

She would need to watch out for Death Trust only while getting into close combat.

To be fair, I've always said Mereleona was above Yami whether it was here or MH. I know the last fight was non-canon but that's how it would go if you ask me.

 

[PerfectHie]

I know it's not how the shonen works but I always wondered how badly fucked would Yami be if Mereo yeets his katana from his hand.

Yami probably has some skill in CQC that he hasn't shown. It wouldn't be close to the Lion Empress though.

 

[kade17]

I may have to side with Yami on this one.

I think the frequency of use and assortment of deadly techniques he has access to (namely.. Death Thrust) combined with his Black Moon (and slight advantage in anticipating his opponents move) makes it far more likely and a bit more easier for him to gain victory in comparison to Mereoleona.

Tho tbh...Yami also can’t afford any slip up or it will cost him the match Severely.

 

[Fujishiro]

To be fair, I've always said Mereleona was above Yami whether it was here or MH. I know the last fight was non-canon but that's how it would go if you ask me.

What’s MH?

 

[Gol D. Roger]

What’s MH?

Mangahelpers

 

[Fujishiro]

Mangahelpers

Thank you!

 

[PerfectHie]

What’s MH?

Mangahelpers

 

[Americanspeeddemon]

Leaning Mereo though Yami gives her a challenge and both have a fair chance to win.