General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Devilbat]

And it will be

:cheers:

when your 15 days of this Furryloaded avi are up?

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

:cheers:

when your 15 days of this Furryloaded avi are up?

Yes sir!

 

[Logiko]

How is there a chance for a character to join that isn’t in the story for chapters and chapters and there is no sign of her returning for the foreseeable future

But that's the point, that's the whole point of this new and second theory, there ARE signs that Carrot will be returning as demonstrated here:

You guys need to understand that I'm proceeding with high caution when I theorize, even in front of elements that can prove my theories.

That's the first reason why I keep saying that you guys should take me seriously when I'm theorizing.

The second is that I never bring up elements on a whim lIke 99% of the "theorists" you can see on youtube. The first things I look up for are the elements in the story that can disprove my hypothesis, and if those elements are not strong enough, I resort to repetitive occurence of narrative evidences.

That's why - for me - that picture of Carrot with Luffy means nothing at the present time with the element we have now.

--

Exemple:

The first thing to look up to disprove my hypothesis that Carrot could have an important role related to the dawn in the future is "the coronation" of Carrot as a Ruler. To completely disprove this hypothesis, the coronation would need to be completing the character arc of Carrot without question.

Problem: That's not what happens, the coronation enters in conflict with Carrot's characterization. So we need to resort to other elements. to explore that hypothesis.

--

All the way from the moment I started to talk here to now, I have proceeded that way: The fact that my conclusions were not confirmed with the CarrotForNakama theory doesn't mean that my reasonning was bad, it just means that I didn't have all the observations.

You can compare that to someone who discovers gravity as a force that push things against each others.. but doesn't have all the informations to understand that what really happens is that gravity is "bending" space time, making things appear like they are attracted to more massive others. In that case, the conclusion of the first guy is wrong, but the reasonning is still correct with the element at disposition.

Same thing with my theory of CarrotForNakama. I put the disproving element at the moment of the transition between the Wano arc and the next, because this is how Oda has always proceed. So, let's imagine that Carrot join the strawhats later, my theory would still be wrong, but my reasonning (the repetitive elements / the argumentation / the analysis) would still be relevant.

--

The fun thing here, is that part of my reasonning for the Carrot for Nakama theory can be reused in that second theory:

There are three point to assess and prove to explore that second theory:

- First point is to prove that Carrot despite her lack of appearance is written as a marginalized yet important character that is characterized as the opposite of a sedentary character.

For that, we first bring repetitive element showing Carrot as a potential strawhats (Strawhat elements, interactions with characters, narrative treatment compared to other similar characters, relativity to the thematics of the story, emotional relevancy etc.) then, we show occurence of Carrot not being able to stay in place, the way she look at the world, the way she acts, her age and temper etc.

By doing that we can have a first conclusion: Yes Carrot is created as someone important despite being marginalized and she is constructed as an "anti" sedentary character.

I talked about this briefly here:


- Second point is to prove if Carrot has any deep link with the thematic of the Dawn in the story.

For that, we need to look at her character in a meta way (the way she is written, the potential symbolism of her character, her actual story, her interaction and her position) and look if there is anything that can tell us that she has been repetitively connected in one way or another to the thematic of the dawn.

By doing that we can have a second conclusion: Yes repetitive narrative occurence show that Carrot as been constructed with deep links with the "dawn" thematic, and we could go as far as saying that she as been written as a narrative "representation" of the dawn herself.

I talked about that here:

- Third point is to prove that there is a huge incoming reveal or plotline linking the Mink, Wano, the book of Oden, Zunisha and the "Dawn thematic".

For that we will need to search for unresolve plotpoint, plothole and/or potential setup in the story. We will also need to see if the Dawn wasn't the end of the Wano arc.

By doing that we can have a third conclusion: There is indeed a large quantity of plothole and unresolved plotline leading to a potential narrative plot point or reveal about the Dawn in the future of the story linking the Mink / Zunisha / The book of Oden / Wano and the Dawn.

I talked about this here:


And here (to disprove the hypothesis that the Dawn was the end of wano)

--

We have potentially proved 3 things:

- Carrot is constructed as important and anti sedentary
- There is a Dawn plot line incoming potentially in relationship with the Mink tribe and Zunisha (and Carrot as she is the leader)
- Carrot has a deep connection to the Dawn

Therefore there are reasons to believe the hypothesis that Carrot could be relevant/important in the future of the story concerning a potential plot line related to the Dawn thematic.

Now, this conclusion could be wrong, as I said, I don't have all the observations as I don't know the end of One Piece, but this theory is once again very solid.

So I suggest that you don't brush it off like its nothing.

THere are a lot of signs pointing toward a return of the mink and therefore Carrot on the frontstage. With a real potential for carrot to shine again.

carrot is fine, it's just a certain user that made people dislike her

The famous fallacious reactance.

Nah more so that Carrot's biggest representatives on the site happen to be...not so great at debating. If you were a mod and could see some of the reports....wow.

You really love antagonizing people do you?

 

[Uncle Van]

You really love antagonizing people do you?

If you have to insult people, try to bait them, edit posts, plot in a PM or rely on political buzzwords for an argument, then you aren't a good debater. Not surprised you think pointing that out is antagonizing.

 

[Horo Horo Musume]

@Mr. Reloaded Oh, I forgot. we need to set the rules so that no one of us is going to suffer damage to their honor: The chosen profile pictures for both sides may not contain demeaning depictions or texts towards/of any person or character and are not allowed to have political implications, violence or sexualized content (e.g., Party X will win the election!; Luffy is “insert insult”; Women are citizen of second class; depiction of a naked people; etc.) – You know – the usual… .

The bet ends when either Lucci joins or when he fades into the background once more for a longer period of time.

That clause is really only just to protect yourself.

 

[ShiShiShi]

But that's the sign, that's the whole point of this nw and second theory, there ARE sign that Carrot will be returning as demonstrated here:



THere are a lot of signs pointing toward a return of the mink and therefore Carrot on the frontstage. With a real potential for carrot to shine again.

The famous fallacie about the reactance.



You really love antagonizing people do you?

You can’t blame people for wanting the book to be closed on the Carrot stuff. This theorizing is getting old.

She wasn’t even that great of a character, if I’m being honest. She was good, but not great. Probably because she peaked at Whole Cake Island, then was thrown to the side during Wano. She didn’t even get to develop much as a character.

Oda writing her off the way he did just sort of ruined it for me.

 

[Uncle Van]

You can’t blame people for wanting the book to be closed on the Carrot stuff. This theorizing is getting old.

She wasn’t even that great of a character, if I’m being honest. She was good, but not great. Probably because she peaked at Whole Cake Island, then was thrown to the side during Wano. She didn’t even get to develop much as a character.

Oda writing her off the way he did just sort of ruined it for me.

Tbh, Carrot was never a bad character. It was just that so many pushed her above her paygrade because they wanted her to be a SH, so she was always compared to main characters with lots of development which made her look bad by comparison.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

That clause is really only just to protect yourself.

Lmao true!

Off to betterhelp.com I go

 

[Peroroncino]

Tbh, Carrot was never a bad character. It was just that so many pushed her above her paygrade because they wanted her to be a SH, so she was always compared to main characters with lots of development which made her look bad by comparison.

nah that's fallacious reactance or some shit, you have to like C4N's fav

 

[Horo Horo Musume]

nah that's fallacious reactance or some shit, you have to like C4N's fav

I'm new to this thread, but I'll be sure to lurk here more often to truly understand and appreciate that comment of yours.

 

[Devilbat]

Tbh, Carrot was never a bad character. It was just that so many pushed her above her paygrade because they wanted her to be a SH, so she was always compared to main characters with lots of development which made her look bad by comparison.

This^

I like Carrot as a supporting character, she had a lot of her moments, and Wonderland without a white rabbit is a blasphemy anyways.
I just never saw her appeal as a SH, she was missing a lot for me to be one. But as a side character she is great, reminds me of Iceberg and Paulie in terms of plot importance :)

 

[Seatonnes]

Finally you are going to win a bet @Mr. Reloaded

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Finally you are going to win a bet @Mr. Reloaded

 

[Seatonnes]

nevermind im telling oda that lucci should join the crew

 

[Peroroncino]

in the impossible scenario where you somehow lose this, just give up on bets forever

 

[Logiko]

If you have to insult people, try to bait them, edit posts, plot in a PM or rely on political buzzwords for an argument, then you aren't a good debater. Not surprised you think pointing that out is antagonizing.

I do think you are pointing at me because this is what you always do when I'm talking here about Carrot or anywhere else.. (you aim under the belt), so I will reply :

- I only edit my post to make them clearer and to get rid of my bad grammar. I expect people to see my mistakes as this is part of the process of having a debate.
- I never plot in PM but I do raise concerns in PM about the moderation (to the moderators) when I see that Transphobia (for example) is accepted as something normal
- I do rely on political namecall (and not "buzzwords" as this is a way to delegitimize therey usage) as this is the ethical thing to do in front of Confusionnism/racism/sexism/transphobia or toxicity.
- I did bait a person to prove their toxicity and transphobia once (Hi seth). Which was the ethical thing to do btw, even if baiting people is not something very gloryfying. But this was not in the context of a debate, more of a call-out - I got threadban for it 1 week also... strange
&
- I never insulted directly anyone.

I note here, that all you can do is point to the form of my message that is.. sadly for you, 99% of the time cordial.. but not the meaning or content of them which is where you would find evidences for something you don't want to accept.. maybe because you don't want Carrot on the crew, or maybe because you just want me to be wrong.

Because let's be honest here.. you obviously don't like more radical political and social militants like me... they tend to get under your skin.. Especially when they are as stubborn as I am..and tends to control the conversation, right ?


So you hold on to all the tiny bit of mistake I can make and don't let that go..

What a waste of time when you could just be friendly with me (and me in return) and actually read with attention what I'm writing...

You can’t blame people for wanting the book to be closed on the Carrot stuff. This theorizing is getting old

She wasn’t even that great of a character, if I’m being honest. She was good, but not great. Probably because she peaked at Whole Cake Island, then was thrown to the side during Wano. She didn’t even get to develop much as a character.

I only search an answer to narrative mysteries and plotholes. If people are good without answers, good for them, i'm not

The quality of Carrot as a character is subjective.

nah that's fallacious reactance or some shit, you have to like C4N's fav

You don't have to, but saying that you don't like a character because of other people is just a way to escape the fact that you are just searching excuses not to like said character. (which is in this instance, not my fav btw)

------

Again. I dare any of you to reply with clearity and story evidences to those questions:

- Can you explain how Inu and Neko escaped the numbers, the beast's pirates and Wano ?
- Can you explain who saved Oden's log Book, how and why ?
- Can you explain why a page has be torn out ?
- Can you explain why the Minks know about a concept only mentionned in Oden's log book ?
- Can you explain why the Pedro sees Luffy as the Dawn Bringer while Oden/Yamato sees Momo as the Dawn Bringer ?
- Can you explain why (seemingly) Neko asked Pedro to search for the Poneglyphs ?
- Can you explain why Carrot was constructed in opposition to a sedentary character but was assigned the title of Ruler of Zou ?
- Can you explain why there is so much dawn related lore with the Mink and through Carrot ?
- Can you explain why Carrot was so related to the strawhats and the look Out post, something unique in the serie besides her mentor ?
- Can you explain what the Dawn of the world is ?

 

[Uncle Van]

This^

I like Carrot as a supporting character, she had a lot of her moments, and Wonderland without a white rabbit is a blasphemy anyways.
I just never saw her appeal as a SH, she was missing a lot for me to be one. But as a side character she is great, reminds me of Iceberg and Paulie in terms of plot importance :)

And she wasn't even the worst candidate we got. It's not like she was child murderer like Caesar and Monet but hey it didn't stop the SH argument lol

 

[Peroroncino]

I do think you are pointing at me because this is what you always do when I'm talking here about Carrot or anywhere else.. (you aim under the belt), so I will reply :

- I only edit my post to make them clearer and to get rid of my bad grammar. I expect people to see my mistakes as this is part of the process of having a debate.
- I never plot in PM but I do raise concerns in PM about the moderation (to the moderators) when I see that Transphobia (for example) is accepted as something normal
- I do rely on political namecall (and not "buzzwords" as this is a way to delegitimize therey usage) as this is the ethical thing to do in front of Confusionnism/racism/sexism/transphobia or toxicity.
- I did bait a person to prove their toxicity and transphobia once (Hi seth). Which was the ethical thing to do btw, even if baiting people is not something very gloryfying. But this was not in the context of a debate, more of a call-out - I got threadban for it 1 week also... strange
&
- I never insulted directly anyone.

I note here, that all you can do is point to the form of my message that is.. sadly for you, 99% of the time cordial.. but not the meaning or content of them which is where you would find evidences for something you don't want to accept.. maybe because you don't want Carrot on the crew, or maybe because you just want me to be wrong.

Because let's be honest here.. you obviously don't like more radical political and social militants like me... they tend to get under your skin.. Especially when they are as stubborn as I am..and tends to control the conversation, right ?


So you hold on to all the tiny bit of mistake I can make and don't let that go..

What a waste of time when you could just be friendly with (and me in return)me and actually read with attention what I'm writting...


I only search an answer to narrative mysteries and plotholes. If people are good without answers, good for them, i'm not

The quality of Carrot as a character is subjective.


You don't have to, but saying that you don't like a character because of other people is just a way to escape the fact that you are just searching excuses not to like said character. (which is in this instance, not my fav btw)

------

Again. I dare any of you to reply with clearity and story evidences to those questions:

i can not like a character for any reason i want

 

[Uncle Van]

I do think you are pointing at me because this is what you always do when I'm talking here about Carrot or anywhere else.. (you aim under the belt), so I will reply :

- I only edit my post to make them clearer and to get rid of my bad grammar. I expect people to see my mistakes as this is part of the process of having a debate.
- I never plot in PM but I do raise concerns in PM about the moderation (to the moderators) when I see that Transphobia (for example) is accepted as something normal
- I do rely on political namecall (and not "buzzwords" as this is a way to delegitimize therey usage) as this is the ethical thing to do in front of Confusionnism/racism/sexism/transphobia or toxicity.
- I did bait a person to prove their toxicity and transphobia once (Hi seth). Which was the ethical thing to do btw, even if baiting people is not something very gloryfying. But this was not in the context of a debate, more of a call-out - I got threadban for it 1 week also... strange
&
- I never insulted directly anyone.

I note here, that all you can do is point to the form of my message that is.. sadly for you, 99% of the time cordial.. but not the meaning or content of them which is where you would find evidences for something you don't want to accept.. maybe because you don't want Carrot on the crew, or maybe because you just want me to be wrong.

Because let's be honest here.. you obviously don't like more radical political and social militants like me... they tend to get under your skin.. Especially when they are as stubborn as I am..and tends to control the conversation, right ?


So you hold on to all the tiny bit of mistake I can make and don't let that go..

What a waste of time when you could just be friendly with (and me in return)me and actually read with attention what I'm writting...


I only search an answer to narrative mysteries and plotholes. If people are good without answers, good for them, i'm not

The quality of Carrot as a character is subjective.


You don't have to, but saying that you don't like a character because of other people is just a way to escape the fact that you are just searching excuses not to like said character. (which is in this instance, not my fav btw)

------

Again. I dare any of you to reply with clearity and story evidences to those questions:

I said representatives. Plural

 

[Logiko]

I said representatives. Plural

oh that must be okay then..