General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[soupongo]

I asked for evidence that Oda will randomly break one of the most significant dynamics in the series because Loki is special enough to warrant such a thing......

This is all just useless subjective fluff.....why would Oda suddenly stop making Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji the top 3? Especially after he further emphasized that dynamic a few chapters ago infront of Loki?

Idk, aren't the Strawhats coming off something like a loss on Egghead? In arcs prior, we have the SHP getting help from other crews to beat the villains, gaining additional manpower certainly wouldn't hurt. And at this point in the story, assuming Luffy would want to gain an additional crewmate to have 10 crewmates(lets not start an argument about if he's including himself or not, I can agree to disagree on that one), would it make sense for Oda to add another weakling to the crew? A change in the dynamics could help signify that we are in the final saga, and things are serious.

Also, I don't think you can dismiss the crazy amount of focus Loki has gotten in this arc. Luffy, Zoro, Gaban, Gods Knights, everyone on Elbaf, they've all been talking about him for 20ish chapters constantly

 

[Monet]

I am aware of past precedents and especially the case of wano.

Tbh, call me naive but I don't see oda repeating the wano thing again....it created a bit of fuss online and I feel if oda still goes forward with something similar but even on bigger scale due to Loki's portrayal then we will see it happen this time.

Well oda don't give a fuck about his fans opinions .
So thinking he will change something fro sake of the fans nah. Don't think unless he want to surprise the readers.
.....

Oda said during dressrosa that new nakam will join quickly one after another.
So maybe he is building them separately and their joining time is at same time .
Yamato loki etc
....

But aside from that i liked loki character but lol how he gonna fit in the ship or with the crew ?! 😂
Hajruden is ant compared to him

Post automatically merged: Monday at 4:38 AM

I asked for evidence that Oda will randomly break one of the most significant dynamics in the series because Loki is special enough to warrant such a thing......

This is all just useless subjective fluff.....why would Oda suddenly stop making Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji the top 3? Especially after he further emphasized that dynamic a few chapters ago infront of Loki?

Exactly fans at onigashima said the same that jinbe gonna break it
Lol at the end jinbe become the 4 lol.
While sanji was solidified as 3d.

So unless sanji as well get new power up like coc to make even loki behind him.
Or loki not joining

 

[Reborn]

Well oda don't give a fuck about his fans opinions .
So thinking he will change something fro sake of the fans nah. Don't think unless he want to surprise the readers.
.....

Oda said during dressrosa that new nakam will join quickly one after another.
So maybe he is building them separately and their joining time is at same time .
Yamato loki etc
....

But aside from that i liked loki character but lol how he gonna fit in the ship or with the crew ?! 😂
Hajruden is ant compared to him

Loki in the norse mythology has shape shifting abilities - perhaps a mythical zoan df.

 

[soupongo]

I think the fact that even Zoro pointed out that Loki wouldn't fit on the crew implies, Oda has something in mind

I still kind of believe Vivi ends up as the last SH though, but who really knows anymore

 

[Monet]

Idk, aren't the Strawhats coming off something like a loss on Egghead? In arcs prior, we have the SHP getting help from other crews to beat the villains, gaining additional manpower certainly wouldn't hurt. And at this point in the story, assuming Luffy would want to gain an additional crewmate to have 10 crewmates(lets not start an argument about if he's including himself or not, I can agree to disagree on that one), would it make sense for Oda to add another weakling to the crew? A change in the dynamics could help signify that we are in the final saga, and things are serious.

Also, I don't think you can dismiss the crazy amount of focus Loki has gotten in this arc. Luffy, Zoro, Gaban, Gods Knights, everyone on Elbaf, they've all been talking about him for 20ish chapters constantly

I think cuz there's no intersting character in elbaf beside him. Usually normal arcs have multiple characters .

It's gonna be nice twist if loki js the main villain of this arc but this doesn't seems so simce there's imo and gov.

This could fit well with original crew arcs nami zoro sanji ussop
But not the later members .
So it's wired situation.

 

[Uncle Van]

Idk, aren't the Strawhats coming off something like a loss on Egghead? In arcs prior, we have the SHP getting help from other crews to beat the villains, gaining additional manpower certainly wouldn't hurt. And at this point in the story, assuming Luffy would want to gain an additional crewmate to have 10 crewmates(lets not start an argument about if he's including himself or not, I can agree to disagree on that one), would it make sense for Oda to add another weakling to the crew? A change in the dynamics could help signify that we are in the final saga, and things are serious.

Also, I don't think you can dismiss the crazy amount of focus Loki has gotten in this arc. Luffy, Zoro, Gaban, Gods Knights, everyone on Elbaf, they've all been talking about him for 20ish chapters constantly

There's no objective reason to say that there will be a random change in dynamic. Loki's narrative and focus doesn't mean he has to be a SH. We've had plenty of characters with crazy importance or focus that didn't join, even with an invite on their lap.

The narrative still has the SHs escape impossible odds as we've seen with Egghead. Luffy lost his crewmates, his brother died, Luffy himself died, allies have died, and yet the SHs still pull through ok. The SHs always made it out alive no matter how dark things got.

Luffy already has a fleet, one of the ships being just for giants. He's got strong connections to Revolutionary Army. He's got all of Wano at feet. He's got all of Fishman Island as a sidepiece. He's got the greatest mind in the world by his side. He's got allies in the Marines. With all of this and the plot, for what reason is it so important for Loki to join the main crew for battle strength? Is the final war going to consist of just the SH crew? Or are they gonna have a ton of allies?

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

This is all just useless subjective fluff.....why would Oda suddenly stop making Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji the top 3? Especially after he further emphasized that dynamic a few chapters ago infront of Loki?

If Oda wanted to kill the monster trio dynamic, Jinbei would have joined after Fishman Island, Yamato would have joined.

People are just desperate after getting baited time and time again, and Loki being the nakama flavor of the week with a cool design, and a sob story, and an invite makes people go crazy and pour all their copium into the basket once again.

It's the same song and dance every arc.

 

[Uncle Van]

If Oda wanted to kill the monster trio dynamic, Jinbei would have joined after Fishman Island, Yamato would have joined.

People are just desperate after getting baited time and time again, and Loki being the nakama flavor of the week with a cool design, and a sob story, and an invite makes people go crazy and pour all their copium into the basket once again.

It's the same song and dance every arc.

The crazy thing is that they can easily argue for Sanji getting a big power up and surpassing Loki, with all the Gaban comparisons and COC hints n' all. They can't even give Sanji that lol. Instead, they argue that the M3 dynamic doesnt matter anymore and Oda will break it because they said so.

 

[soupongo]

There's no objective reason to say that there will be a random change in dynamic. Loki's narrative and focus doesn't mean he has to be a SH. We've had plenty of characters with crazy importance or focus that didn't join, even with an invite on their lap.

The narrative still has the SHs escape impossible odds as we've seen with Egghead. Luffy lost his crewmates, his brother died, Luffy himself died, allies have died, and yet the SHs still pull through ok. The SHs always made it out alive no matter how dark things got.

Luffy already has a fleet, one of the ships being just for giants. He's got strong connections to Revolutionary Army. He's got all of Wano at feet. He's got all of Fishman Island as a sidepiece. He's got the greatest mind in the world by his side. He's got allies in the Marines. With all of this and the plot, for what reason is it so important for Loki to join the main crew for battle strength? Is the final war going to consist of just the SH crew? Or are they gonna have a ton of allies?

They escaped because of an ancient robot they had no idea existed and had no control of. That isn't a good position for the crew to be in, nor is it one they should be in towards the end of the series. Obviously a power boost can be beneficial. And yes, we know Luffy has plenty of connections, the government still has more, and they're immortal. For now, only *two* strawhats can even fight some of the biggest government enemies, which is obviously an issue.

If Oda wanted to kill the monster trio dynamic, Jinbei would have joined after Fishman Island, Yamato would have joined.

People are just desperate after getting baited time and time again, and Loki being the nakama flavor of the week with a cool design, and a sob story, and an invite makes people go crazy and pour all their copium into the basket once again.

It's the same song and dance every arc.

Have you ever considered this is just confirmation bias? Maybe Jimbei joined after WCI, because him being an insider in the BMP is how the SHP could escape? Maybe Yamato just wasn't supposed to join? Luffy certainly didn't spend 20 chapters with an interest in trying to get Yamato to join, nor did he even ask her in specific.

 

[Uncle Van]

They escaped because of an ancient robot they had no idea existed and had no control of. That isn't a good position for the crew to be in, nor is it one they should be in towards the end of the series. Obviously a power boost can be beneficial. And yes, we know Luffy has plenty of connections, the government still has more, and they're immortal. For now, only *two* strawhats can even fight some of the biggest government enemies, which is obviously an issue.

Aka the plot still had the SHs survive. It literally gave them an ally out of nowhere. Seeing how Luffy has a ton of powerful allies, and has a fleet portion dedicated entirely to giants, there's no reason for Loki to join just for strength. The strength that matters for the SHs is Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji being the top 3 as we're since the beginning. And Chopper, Nami, Usopp being the weakest.

In fact, how come the SHs just cant get power ups? That's another thing to consider that makes Loki joining for battle strength even more redundant.

 

[soupongo]

Aka the plot still had the SHs survive. It literally gave them an ally out of nowhere. Seeing how Luffy has a ton of powerful allies, and has a fleet portion dedicated entirely to giants, there's no reason for Loki to join just for strength. The strength that matters for the SHs is Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji being the top 3 as we're since the beginning. And Chopper, Nami, Usopp being the weakest.

In fact, how come the SHs just cant get power ups? That's another thing to consider that makes Loki joining for battle strength even more redundant.

Obviously the Strawhats will survive no matter what because plot, that's not really relevant. What's relevant is they couldn't win.

There's no contradiction, the SHP can get powerups and one more strong member, like how the Roger pirates got Oden towards the end of the journey, but it doesn't mean anyone became irrelevant

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Maybe Jimbei joined after WCI, because him being an insider in the BMP is how the SHP could escape?

If Jimbo was meant to be an insider he did a horrendous job, because they got away through dummy luck lmao

Maybe Yamato just wasn't supposed to join?

50/50
Oda played around with the idea a lot.

Luffy certainly didn't spend 20 chapters with an interest in trying to get Yamato to join, nor did he even ask her in specific.

Loki at best will be a major ally to be a major aid in the final war (mural), that's why he's getting more focus than someone like Carrot or Yamato.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Plot can just make Sanji suddenly get powerful out of nowhere after a few chapters/arc upon someone powerful joining... No need to overthink if someone powerful joins...

Happened with Robin and Jinbe... Why worry if Loki joins?

 

[Uncle Van]

Obviously the Strawhats will survive no matter what because plot, that's not really relevant. What's relevant is they couldn't win.

There's no contradiction, the SHP can get powerups and one more strong member, like how the Roger pirates got Oden towards the end of the journey, but it doesn't mean anyone became irrelevant

But there's no reason to assume that the M3 will get broken after 20+ years, especially when Oda brought it up again a few chapters ago. If they get a strong member, they will be weaker than Sanji

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Wings hierarchy > last minute op RPG party member logic.

 

[soupongo]

If Jimbo was meant to be an insider he did a horrendous job, because they got away through dummy luck lmao

50/50
Oda played around with the idea a lot.

Loki at best will be a major ally to be a major aid in the final war (mural), that's why he's getting more focus than someone like Carrot or Yamato.

He got the SHP out of jail and connected them to Capone,which is something

Post automatically merged: Monday at 5:15 AM

But there's no reason to assume that the M3 will get broken after 20+ years, especially when Oda brought it up again a few chapters ago. If they get a strong member, they will be weaker than Sanji

We don't even know how to compare Loki in strength to Sanji, and Sanji can eventually surpass him EOS anyway. I don't really think this is some big deal

 

[thedarkdragon11]

It's not M3 anymore, it's now PK and the Wings... To segregate the captain with the 2...

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Plot can just make Sanji suddenly get powerful out of nowhere after a few chapters/arc upon someone powerful joining... No need to overthink if someone powerful joins...

Sanji isn't going from YC2 to near Yonko level in one arc. You don't believe this

Also both Zoro and Sanji would need their bounties to be almost 3 billion to maintain their place. That just isn't happening before EOS

 

[Uncle Van]

He got the SHP out of jail and connected them to Capone,which is something

Post automatically merged: Monday at 5:15 AM

We don't even know how to compare Loki in strength to Sanji, and Sanji can eventually surpass him EOS anyway. I don't really think this is some big deal

There is no "surpassing later". Either Sanji is stronger or Loki doesnt join at all. There's no reason to think that Oda will break such a significant dynamic.

 

[Reborn]

I think the fact that even Zoro pointed out that Loki wouldn't fit on the crew implies, Oda has something in mind

I still kind of believe Vivi ends up as the last SH though, but who really knows anymore

I think people just don't have faith anymore. I don't blame them after past actions of oda


However, issue lies with people placing Loki on equal footing with past SHs candidates.

Even yamao doesn't come close....forget about the rest - Rebecca and co who never enjoyed such impactful portrayal like Loki.


-----> Typical SH type backstory

-----> got reference 8 years prior to his arc which didn't happen with any previous candidate

-----> got invited by Luffy and Luffy even declared he will beat anyone who has issue

------> his invitation mirrors Zoro and Brook

------> he seeks freedom which aligns with Luffy's inherent journey. All SHs dream aligns with Luffy's dream.

------> he's massive and zoro rightly called it out...but thing is we also learnt about shipwrights in elbaph. Can't be just a coincidence that oda touched this sub plot in elbaph?

------> his story reflects he wants to sail out.

------> his xebec backstory indicates he wants to be a pirate

------> sees himself as Nika and then Nika himself invited him to join. A simple realization that Luffy is Nika would make Loki be in awe of Luffy or even follow him.

-----> has seen Xebec, shanks, WB, BM, Holy knights and thus ties with them which once again sets him apart from previous candidates.

------> WG is after him and Elbaph doesn't want him - mirros Robin situation ( WG wanted her and no one wanted her ----> nakama void)

-----> wants to destroy the World which could be symbolic reference to the World Government - and, we know Luffy is destined to do so.

I don't know how people can read everything that's unfolding in front of them and then can say - " oh it's like with other past candidates" ignoring the narrative weight of Loki which no other candidate had..... literally no one had.


Loki is special case. Comparing him with previous candidates is like not knowing the nuances of a character development and failing to connect the dots and then resorting to apples and oranges comparison.


Only issue is monster trio and wings of Luffy dynamic. But then, Zoro and Sanji are meant to be the wings of PK Luffy forever. Loki won't replace them... Having Loki means Zoro and Sanji are meant to surpass Loki. A slight deviation for an arc won't dent the wings dynamic