General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[thedarkdragon11]

Sanji isn't going from YC2 to near Yonko level in one arc. You don't believe this

He can, if Oda permits to...

Also, who said that Loki should join right away in this arc? Yamato will likely to join first...

Even Jinbe took several arcs before joining...

Also both Zoro and Sanji would need their bounties to be almost 3 billion to maintain their place. That just isn't happening before EOS

Why not? Also, when did the bounty matter? Robin's bounty was higher than Zoro for several arcs... Same with Jinbe who still currently has a higher bounty than Sanji...

 

[soupongo]

There is no "surpassing later". Either Sanji is stronger or Loki doesnt join at all. There's no reason to think that Oda will break such a significant dynamic.

How strong is the last Strawhat allowed to be? Elbaf Jimbei? If we know all these characters will end up being strong EOS, I don't think it causes any issues. Plus, hasn't this arc been cementing Zoro and Sanji as a duo more then the m3?

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

I think people just don't have faith anymore. I don't blame them after past actions of oda


However, issue lies with people placing Loki on equal footing with past SHs candidates.

Even yamao doesn't come close....forget about the rest - Rebecca and co who never enjoyed such impactful portrayal like Loki.


-----> Typical SH type backstory

-----> got reference 8 years prior to his arc which didn't happen with any previous candidate

-----> got invited by Luffy and Luffy even declared he will beat anyone who has issue

------> his invitation mirrors Zoro and Brook

------> he seeks freedom which aligns with Luffy's inherent journey. All SHs dream aligns with Luffy's dream.

------> he's massive and zoro rightly called it out...but thing is we also learnt about shipwrights in elbaph. Can't be just a coincidence that oda touched this sub plot in elbaph?

------> his story reflects he wants to sail out.

------> his xebec backstory indicates he wants to be a pirate

------> sees himself as Nika and then Nika himself invited him to join. A simple realization that Luffy is Nika would make Loki be in awe of Luffy or even follow him.

-----> has seen Xebec, shanks, WB, BM, Holy knights and thus ties with them which once again sets him apart from previous candidates.

------> WG is after him and Elbaph doesn't want him - mirros Robin situation ( WG wanted her and no one wanted her ----> nakama void)

-----> wants to destroy the World which could be symbolic reference to the World Government - and, we know Luffy is destined to do so.

I don't know how people can read everything that's unfolding in front of them and then can say - " oh it's like with other past candidates" ignoring the narrative weight of Loki which no other candidate had..... literally no one had.


Loki is special case. Comparing him with previous candidates is like not knowing the nuances of a character development and failing to connect the dots and then resorting to apples and oranges comparison.


Only issue is monster trio and wings of Luffy dynamic. But then, Zoro and Sanji are meant to be the wings of PK Luffy forever. Loki won't replace them... Having Loki means Zoro and Sanji are meant to surpass Loki. A slight deviation for an arc won't dent the wings of the dynamic

Let Sanji surpass Jinbe first

 

[Uncle Van]

Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji were called the monster trio because they were the 3 strongest, and the wings are the 2nd and 3rd strongest. A few chapters ago we learned that Ray and Gaban were Roger's wings and that the 3 of them were the strongest of the crew, with the wings being #2 and 3. You cant just make up a compromise and say Loki will join and break that dynamic until Zoro and Sanji surpass him later.

Captain and his 2 wings=top 3 strongest of the crew.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 5:29 AM

How strong is the last Strawhat allowed to be? Elbaf Jimbei? If we know all these characters will end up being strong EOS, I don't think it causes any issues. Plus, hasn't this arc been cementing Zoro and Sanji as a duo more then the m3?

Weaker than Sanji and stronger than Chopper. No reason to assume Oda will break dynamics just because.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

This is unbelievable... People are still arguing with how someone joining would affect the Wings... Oda proved over and over, it will never be broken whatever happens and whoever joins... Plot will give way in some way or another...

Re: Loki, take note that he's still not at full strength and it will take 6 months for him to fully recover... By then, Zoro and Sanji will probably be able to control their CoCs...

The concept of "Wings of the Pirate King" is all about how they contribute not only as solo fighters, but also with how they do their role as a support to the PK... Not solely on mere being "#2" and "#3" alone...

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Also, who said that Loki should join right away in this arc?

Why would he not join in the literal giant arc where he's getting all his focus?

Yamato will likely to join first...

If you believe in the 10 strawhat theory then no she doesn't. Either Yamato joins or Loki joins, not both.

Why not? Also, when did the bounty matter? Robin's bounty was higher than Zoro for several arcs...

Robin's bounty wasn't over double Zoro's.

same with Jinbe who still currently has a higher bounty than Sanji...

For a gag

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Also can we stop treating canidates like they have the luxury of time like Jinbei to just join at a later point? We are literally at the home stretch now and even Jimbo barely got away it. He hardly feels like a Strawhat because of it.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

Will Gunko die at the end of this arc?

 

[Reborn]

Let Sanji surpass Jinbe first

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

How strong is the last Strawhat allowed to be?

Vivi level is fine because Vivi isn't fucking with the status quo. Like Loki who's doing 5 year old Big Mom feats as a baby lmao

If you want the agenda answer, you give Sanji AdvCoC and make him above Yamato and that would be fair.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Why would he not join in the literal giant arc where he's getting all his focus?

Same reason why Jinbe joined in a samurai arc, not in the fishman arc...

If you believe in the 10 strawhat theory then no she doesn't. Either Yamato joins or Loki joins, not both.

Not anymore... I'm more of a MFMM per region believer... Yamato being the female and Loki being the local delinquent fits well...

Robin's bounty wasn't over double Zoro's.

Yeah, but still higher... And it didn't really matter... For bounties are about WG's POV on someone's threat to their organization... Exactly the reason why Robin's bounty is currently higher than Cracker's...

For a gag

Doesn't matter if it's a gag or not...

 

[Etzel Andergast]

Vivi is already a strawhat

And yes, she will travel with the others mugiwaras to laugh tale

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Just, have faith with Oda...

 

[Etzel Andergast]

@Mr. Reloaded Yamato will join... in the epilogue of the story, after the end of the main events

 

[Reborn]

Just, have faith with Oda...

Only faith I have on oda is he's good at messing the plots he builds lol

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Only faith I have on oda is he's good at messing the plots he builds lol

But definitely not gonna happen with the Wings dynamic...

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Same reason why Jinbe joined in a samurai arc, not in the fishman arc...

He didn't join because powerlevels lol. And Jinbei had at least half a timeskip of time to piss about. Loki definitely won't.

Not anymore... I'm more of a MFMM per region believer... Yamato being the female and Loki being the local delinquent fits well...

I love giving Oda shit, but if nothing else this would be the one thing he'd consistent on. He can't even handle the cast he has now, we're not getting more than 10. So yeah it's Yamato or Loki or Vivi, gotta pick one.

Yeah, but still higher... And it didn't really matter... For bounties are about WG's POV on someone's threat to their organization... Exactly the reason why Robin's bounty is currently higher than Cracker's...

That might have been the case for most characters back in the day, but for the wings, Loki, Kid and Law bounties are just power levels on scouters. Robin is a major anomaly in the mix.

 

[Reborn]

But definitely not gonna happen with the Wings dynamic...

Well he never really broke that dynamic before. Even when jinbei joined, there was an air of ambiguity but nothing else but with Loki - the dynamic will definitely vanish for time being.


So, I do understand the argument of M3 dynamics.

However, for me, the narrative context which oda is laying down matters more than wings dynamic which can be restored with M3s growth.

For others, that dynamic hold more weight than the narrative context of Loki.

Its all about how differently we perceive things.

 

[Rootbeer]

But definitely not gonna happen with the Wings dynamic...

Loki can get a permanent nerf until the final War..

 

[Welkin]

The 2 main factors working against Loki will always be

1. He’s about 1000x bigger than any Strawhat and way too big for the Sunny. Road is a regular sized giant and he could cradle the Sunny like a baby

I know people have been talking about the Adam Tree and Franky having a ton of material to expand the Sunny but he would have to build an ancient giant sized ship that the other Strawhats would look like specks of dust on. I just can’t see Oda having Luffy go from a nice compact ship to something bigger than every other ship in OP besides maybe Pluton or the Noah

This really only works if Loki has a shapeshifting ability which is highly possible given his name

2. He’s clearly set to be stronger than Zoro/Sanji currently. Like there’s really no argument for a fully healthy Loki even being in the same tier as either of them

I maybe would’ve agreed with people saying “it doesn’t matter” a few arcs ago but Oda solidified the Wings/M3 in Wano and then doubled down on it in Elbaf. I have a very hard time believing Oda would put all that work into further establishing the dynamic just to trash it in the same arc


So until the very last chapter of Elbaf I’ll be on the “he’s going to be an ally and the representative of Elbaf” train. I usually wouldn’t wait that long but after the Yamato/Carrot fiasco you never know with Oda