General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Ravagerblade]

I've been patient with you until now, but if you start being as toxic as the other, I'll treat you with the same lack of respect. We had an open door for now, but it would be really dissapointing to destroy it completely. Don't you think ?


1. All your argument stands on one assertion: that One Piece would be 'not that deep". First. One Piece is not deep, it's crafted perfectly. Those are two different thing. You should know that as I already explained the difference:

2. You are showing again that you missunderstood the technique.

""Akainu wants to kill Whitebeard and Ace wants to save him"
"the detective wants to capture the killer and the killer wants to escape""

Those are conflicting goals only in surface. As Truby explained and as I explained it to you in the case of Ace:


- The Detective and the Killer are fighting ALSO for their own vision of reality (Truby puts it that way : in a detective story, it appears that the hero wants to catch the killer and the opponent wants to get away. But they are really fighting over which version of reality everyone will believe. "
- SAME goes for Akainu VS Ace, it appears that they both have conflicting goal when they are in fact fighting for their OWN vision of piracy.


You are litterally NOT understanding the technique here. When it is in fact pretty simple. So please, don't try to provoque me or to prove me wrong by search to twist the wordings, you can't. Just accept that their is something you missunderstood, I won't taunt you on that. Like I said, I've made it through the same hell.


The paragraph :

"If you look at a number of good stories, it often appears, at first glance, that hero and opponent are not competing for the same goal. But look again. See if you can spot what they are really fighting about. [...] The trick to creating an opponent who wants the same goal as the hero is to find the deepest level of conflict between them. "

Is proving that their must ALWAYS be similar goal//hidden desire put in conflict and that they must be on the DEEPEST level of similarity in order to create a great antagonist/protagonist relationship.

There is nothing difficult nor deep about that, it's very clear. It's not rocket science. I understand that you don't want to accept that you are wrong, but the writing here is going MY way, not yours, in anyway. So accept it.





I have already found the cheese. It was not on the wheel.


Yes, I'm aware of this concept since it's LITERALLY THE ARGUMENT I'VE BEEN MAKING THIS WHOLE TIME. You're the one who thinks that killing someone and saving someone are the same goal, when anyone can tell you they're the opposite (and Truby says it literally in the next sentence).

No, Killing and Saving are not the same goal. The similarity are deeper, as I and Truby said: in the version of reality that is being fought upon.

Once you understand the difference, everything will be clear, you'll see.




During all those month I said only one thing : I'm an analyst. Did I say more ? No. You are you little squad are telling the tale of the expert, not me ;)





Dude.. like I said.. those lines proves YOU wrong.. and you still don't understand why (because you don't understand the important of putting two similar goal deep in a conflict) But it will come.. After many example , you will start to understand it, I'm sure of it, you are not stupid.

Post automatically merged: Jan 15, 2022

The moment when you will all understand what I'm sayin will be delicious

Dude just admit that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

 

[Logiko]

Dude just admit that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

Dude.. i'm sure you can't even understand the method we are debatting with Sigran.. don't enter that discussion lol

 

[Sigran101]

So you DO understand that there has to be a deeper meaning to the goals afterall. Were you just pretending to be this stupid? I asked you what the deeper goals are in one piece several times and you just gave me crap about subtext and said I didn't understand.

At least we're on the same topic now. Your first mistake is starting with the assumption that One Piece is perfectly written. To properly analyze something you need to go in with no assumptions at all.

And after all that, you're also just wrong about Akainu and Ace. Akainu doesn't care about a version of piracy, he wants to end piracy completely. And you're going to have to provide a panel of Ace saying literally anything that implies he cares about how people view pirates. He just wants to protect Whitebeard, that's it. If your answer includes the word "subtext" or "context" then you better have panels to back that up too.

And I'd love to hear what these supposed deeper goals are for the other antagonists, because your entire list of "deeper goals" from before were just the surface level conflicting goals.

I'll leave you with one last quote to consider before you respond.

"Uh... One Piece isn't that deep of a story"- Eichiro Oda

 

[Ravagerblade]

Dude.. i'm sure you can't even understand the method we are debatting with Sigran.. don't enter that discussion lol

I may not have Sig's experience but I still can understand a hell of a lot more than you about storytelling etc.
Your problem is that whatever you say is the facts and truth. You can't admit when you're wrong, and when you get proven wrong you go on a tangent with absolutely no purpose in the actual discussion.
This isn't a debate thread.

 

[Sigran101]

Dude.. i'm sure you can't even understand the method we are debatting with Sigran.. don't enter that discussion lol

It's really not that complicated. Anyone here can join in if they want. We already quoted the relevant parts from the book.

 

[Ravagerblade]

It's really not that complicated. Anyone here can join in if they want. We already quoted the relevant parts from the book.

Guy wants to gatekeep apparently.

 

[Logiko]

So you DO understand that there has to be a deeper meaning to the goals afterall. Were you just pretending to be this stupid? I asked you what the deeper goals are in one piece several times and you just gave me crap about subtext and said I didn't understand.

That's litterally what i've been hammering through those paragraph. But you didn't see it as you start from the principle that One Piece does not use that rule.. when in fact.. Oda does this ALL the TIME. That's why I talked about cognifive Bias, you didn't even read correctly my argumentation..

Like I said on the first or second post about Truby, if you are starting from the base that this technique is "deep" you will BLIND yourself from it. That technique is not that deep, it's not even that difficult to apply.. and Oda is doing that since the beginning of the story. Logically as every good story uses that technique.

And no, I didn't "bs about subtext" This is just what this technique is about:

Creating two goal in conflict (or not, there can also be similar obvious goals between the Antagonist and the Prota. - Like in a race story for exemple) is not enough, the similarity must go even deeper, through the subtext and the layers of characterization. That why Truby uses the sentence: " find the deepest level of conflict between them " Here "Conflict" doesn't mean that the deep similar desire must oppose each others but that those desires must be related to the deepest layer of conflict possible, like a vision of reality.. or a value on life etc. This is the deepest root of conflict between the two characters. (sometimes it's so rooted deep into the characters, that even the most careful reader will not catch it, but the author knows it and therefore will be able to build all his conflict on that base)

At least we're on the same topic now. Your first mistake is starting with the assumption that One Piece is perfectly written. To properly analyze something you need to go in with no assumptions at all.

Well, it's not that perfect, it's just amazingly crafted from the point of view of an author.

And after all that, you're also just wrong about Akainu and Ace. Akainu doesn't care about a version of piracy, he wants to end piracy completely. And you're going to have to provide a panel of Ace saying literally anything that implies he cares about how people view pirates. He just wants to protect Whitebeard, that's it. If your answer includes the word "subtext" or "context" then you better have panels to back that up too.

Of course he does. His whole mindset is that he is right about is vision of Pirates being scumbags. In fact it's build right into his vision of "Absolute Justice".

In short, Ace and Akainu here are fighting to defend their vision of PIracy as one think they must be respected and the other exterminated.

And I'd love to hear what these supposed deeper goals are for the other antagonists, because your entire list of "deeper goals" from before were just the surface level conflicting goals.

Like I said, in most those case, the surface goal is pretty simple: Those are duels so they are first fighting against each other (those are the surface level conflicting goals). It's what's behind them that is important :

Usopp VS Sugar: In reality they are both fighting for memories.
Gin VS Sanji : They are really fighting to accomplish the wishes of their "fathers"
Katakuri Vs Luffy : Are really fighting to protect their family
Zoro VS Helmeppo: (not a duel) are fighting over respect, either to gain it or to reclaim it.
Robin VS Spandam: are fighting over the informations of Ohara
Usopp VS Luffy: Are fighting over Sunny (but you can go deeper in fact and say that they are fighting over their Vision of What a Nakama is or what a captain should be (I'm hesitating here))
Luffy VS Crocodile: Are fighting over Alabasta
Luffy VS Kaido: Are fighting over Wano but i'm sure you can go even deeper and say that from a meta standpoint, Oda created this fight in order to have them fighting over who will be the next Joyboy.
Etc.

I'm sure there are a myriad of other exemples. We are in a shonen, so the primary surface goals will mostly be "defeat the other physically", but there is almost (if not always) a deeper meaning. It can be something obvious like the control over Wano or something a little bit deeper like Gin Vs Sanji.

The point is (to get back to our previous debate) ALL those VS are depicting a protagonist against their main antagonist (for the arc or a specific moment)

So from that.. we can now go back to our main point and your question:

"Where and when will Carrot deal with her personnal antagonist that will make her grow ?"

I say:

She already has and has lost (against Perospero). But I think that Oda is planning to remind her those words of Perospero, later in the story and make her actually grow.. By this act, she will not only have grown/defeated another ennemy, but she will have proven the word of Perospero wrong.

This.. in my mind, can only happen at the end of Wano (with a ressurection of Perospero) or after, during another arc.

I'll leave you with one last quote to consider before you respond.

"Uh... One Piece isn't that deep of a story- Eichiro Oda

Well.. That's the words of a modest man

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

I may not have Sig's experience but I still can understand a hell of a lot more than you about storytelling etc.
Your problem is that whatever you say is the facts and truth. You can't admit when you're wrong, and when you get proven wrong you go on a tangent with absolutely no purpose in the actual discussion.
This isn't a debate thread.

I don't have to admit I'm wrong here, I'm not. Look more closely.

Plus I already have admitted more than anyone here in many cases that I was wrong.. (I even got back to my blog to delete some sections, because of some good points here..)

So save the paternalism for someone else, okay ?

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

It's really not that complicated. Anyone here can join in if they want. We already quoted the relevant parts from the book.

Granted

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

Guy wants to gatekeep apparently.

That's all you have been doing from the start lol

 

[Ravagerblade]

That's litterally what i've been hammering through those paragraph. But you didn't see it as you start from the principle that One Piece does not use that rule.. when in fact.. Oda does this ALL the TIME. That's why I talked about cognifive Bias, you didn't even read correctly my argumentation..

Like I said on the first or second post about Truby, if you are starting from the base that this technique is "deep" you will BLIND yourself from it. That technique is not that deep, it's not even that difficult to apply.. and Oda is doing that since the beginning of the story. Logically as every good story uses that technique.

And no, I didn't "bs about subtext" This is just what this technique is about:

Creating two goal in conflict (or not, there can also be similar obvious goals between the Antagonist and the Prota. - Like in a race story for exemple) is not enough, the similarity must go even deeper, through the subtext and the layers of characterization. That why Truby uses the sentence: " find the deepest level of conflict between them " Here "Conflict" doesn't mean that the deep similar desire must oppose each others but that those desires must be related to the deepest layer of conflict possible, like a vision of reality.. or a value on life etc. This is the deepest root of conflict between the two characters. (sometimes it's so rooted deep into the characters, that even the most careful reader will not catch it, but the author knows it and therefore will be able to build all his conflict on that base)




Well, it's not that perfect, it's just amazingly crafted from the point of view of an author.



Of course he does. His whole mindset is that he is right about is vision of Pirates being scumbags. In fact it's build right into his vision of "Absolute Justice".

In short, Ace and Akainu here are fighting to defend their vision of PIracy as one think they must be respected and the other exterminated.



Like I said, in most those case, the surface goal is pretty simple: Those are duels so they are first fighting against each other (those are the surface level conflicting goals). It's what's behind them that is important :

Usopp VS Sugar: In reality they are both fighting for memories.
Gin VS Sanji : They are really fighting to accomplish the wishes of their "fathers"
Katakuri Vs Luffy : Are really fighting to protect their family
Zoro VS Helmeppo: (not a duel) are fighting over respect, either to gain it or to reclaim it.
Robin VS Spandam: are fighting over the informations of Ohara
Usopp VS Luffy: Are fighting over Sunny (but you can go deeper in fact and say that they are fighting over their Vision of What a Nakama is or what a captain should be (I'm hesitating here))
Luffy VS Crocodile: Are fighting over Alabasta
Luffy VS Kaido: Are fighting over Wano but i'm sure you can go even deeper and say that from a meta standpoint, Oda created this fight in order to have them fighting over who will be the next Joyboy.
Etc.

I'm sure there are a myriad of other exemples. We are in a shonen, so the primary surface goals will mostly be "defeat the other physically", but there is almost (if not always) a deeper meaning. It can be something obvious like the control over Wano or something a little bit deeper like Gin Vs Sanji.

The point is (to get back to our previous debate) ALL those VS are depicting a protagonist against their main antagonist (for the arc or a specific moment)

So from that.. we can now go back to our main point and your question:

"Where and when will Carrot deal with her personnal antagonist that will make her grow ?"

I say:

She already has and has lost (against Perospero). But I think that Oda is planning to remind her those words of Perospero, later in the story and make her actually grow.. By this act, she will not only have grown/defeated another ennemy, but she will have proven the word of Perospero wrong.

This.. in my mind, can only happen at the end of Wano (with a ressurection of Perospero) or after, during another arc.




Well.. That's the words of a modest man

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

I don't have to admit I'm wrong here, I'm not. Look more closely.

Plus I already have admitted more than anyone here in many cases that I was wrong.. (I even got back to my blog to delete some sections, because of some good points here..)

So save the paternalism for someone else, okay ?

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

Granted

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

That's all you have been doing from the start lol

No I've called out the dumb bullshit you spew out.

 

[Sigran101]

That's litterally what i've been hammering through those paragraph. But you didn't see it as you start from the principle that One Piece does not use that rule.. when in fact.. Oda does this ALL the TIME. That's why I talked about cognifive Bias, you didn't even read correctly my argumentation..

Like I said on the first or second post about Truby, if you are starting from the base that this technique is "deep" you will BLIND yourself from it. That technique is not that deep, it's not even that difficult to apply.. and Oda is doing that since the beginning of the story. Logically as every good story uses that technique.

And no, I didn't "bs about subtext" This is just what this technique is about:

Creating two goal in conflict (or not, there can also be similar obvious goals between the Antagonist and the Prota. - Like in a race story for exemple) is not enough, the similarity must go even deeper, through the subtext and the layers of characterization. That why Truby uses the sentence: " find the deepest level of conflict between them " Here "Conflict" doesn't mean that the deep similar desire must oppose each others but that those desires must be related to the deepest layer of conflict possible, like a vision of reality.. or a value on life etc. This is the deepest root of conflict between the two characters. (sometimes it's so rooted deep into the characters, that even the most careful reader will not catch it, but the author knows it and therefore will be able to build all his conflict on that base)




Well, it's not that perfect, it's just amazingly crafted from the point of view of an author.



Of course he does. His whole mindset is that he is right about is vision of Pirates being scumbags. In fact it's build right into his vision of "Absolute Justice".

In short, Ace and Akainu here are fighting to defend their vision of PIracy as one think they must be respected and the other exterminated.



Like I said, in most those case, the surface goal is pretty simple: Those are duels so they are first fighting against each other (those are the surface level conflicting goals). It's what's behind them that is important :

Usopp VS Sugar: In reality they are both fighting for memories.
Gin VS Sanji : They are really fighting to accomplish the wishes of their "fathers"
Katakuri Vs Luffy : Are really fighting to protect their family
Zoro VS Helmeppo: (not a duel) are fighting over respect, either to gain it or to reclaim it.
Robin VS Spandam: are fighting over the informations of Ohara
Usopp VS Luffy: Are fighting over Sunny (but you can go deeper in fact and say that they are fighting over their Vision of What a Nakama is or what a captain should be (I'm hesitating here))
Luffy VS Crocodile: Are fighting over Alabasta
Luffy VS Kaido: Are fighting over Wano but i'm sure you can go even deeper and say that from a meta standpoint, Oda created this fight in order to have them fighting over who will be the next Joyboy.
Etc.

I'm sure there are a myriad of other exemples. We are in a shonen, so the primary surface goals will mostly be "defeat the other physically", but there is almost (if not always) a deeper meaning. It can be something obvious like the control over Wano or something a little bit deeper like Gin Vs Sanji.

The point is (to get back to our previous debate) ALL those VS are depicting a protagonist against their main antagonist (for the arc or a specific moment)

So from that.. we can now go back to our main point and your question:

"Where and when will Carrot deal with her personnal antagonist that will make her grow ?"

I say:

She already has and has lost (against Perospero). But I think that Oda is planning to remind her those words of Perospero, later in the story and make her actually grow.. By this act, she will not only have grown/defeated another ennemy, but she will have proven the word of Perospero wrong.

This.. in my mind, can only happen at the end of Wano (with a ressurection of Perospero) or after, during another arc.




Well.. That's the words of a modest man

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

I don't have to admit I'm wrong here, I'm not. Look more closely.

Plus I already have admitted more than anyone here in many cases that I was wrong.. (I even got back to my blog to delete some sections, because of some good points here..)

So save the paternalism for someone else, okay ?

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

Granted

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

That's all you have been doing from the start lol

And here I thought you were about to turn yourself around. When you finally admitted that they have to have the same goal underneath the conflicting ones, I thought you were going to give me real examples of it in One Piece. But your list of surface level goals is actually what you see as the deeper level, despite the fact that every conflict you listed is conflicting goals, (Aside from Zoro and Helmeppo which is simply wrong since Zoro's dream has nothing to do with his conflict with Helmeppo), just like the shallow part of the detective example.

And what, then, do you see as the surface level conflicting goals?

"Beating each other"

Spoiler

I know I said One Piece isn't deep, but you're clearly not ready for it. I recommend you start with "The Hungry Hungry Caterpillar" and come back when you've mastered that

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Would it have to be specifically Zoro or would any Straw Hat tag team do?

It has to be Zoro because Jinbe tagged with Sanji... Yamato should tag with one of the Wings... Nobody else in the crew can evenly tag with her...

Yamato has a tag battle with the captain himself in this beautiful double spread

That's another condition which was already met... Jinbe also tagged with Luffy even way back in ID...

:cheers:

 

[Logiko]

And here I thought you were about to turn yourself around. When you finally admitted that they have to have the same goal underneath the conflicting ones, I thought you were going to give me real examples of it in One Piece. But your list of surface level goals is actually what you see as the deeper level, despite the fact that every conflict you listed is conflicting goals, (Aside from Zoro and Helmeppo which is simply wrong since Zoro's dream has nothing to do with his conflict with Helmeppo), just like the shallow part of the detective example.

And what, then, do you see as the surface level conflicting goals?

"Beating each other"

Spoiler

I know I said One Piece isn't deep, but you're clearly not ready for it. I recommend you start with "The Hungry Hungry Caterpillar" and come back when you've mastered that

There I thought we were finally coming on a consensus with each other just to see that you still don't understand the technique used in One Piece..


1. This list was not surface levels goals. In all of those instance the surface goal of each characters is to either defeat the other or to kill someone else. Those goal are not "surfaces goal" they are everything but obvious.. For us, they might be clear, because we are used to understand how stories are crafted, but for casual readers those needs multiple readings.

2. The goal of this technique is not to find deep goal in conflictbut (again) to fin the moon similar reason for conflict between the two protagonist and make they battle for it.

But I think I undestand now..

Do you actually think that Truby's exemple of "the detective vs the murderer "was made describe a "shallow" exemple of story???????

 

[Sigran101]

There I thought we were finally coming on a consensus with each other just to see that you still don't understand the technique used in One Piece..


1. This list was not surface levels goals. In all of those instance the goal of each characters is to either defeat the other or to kill someone else. Those goal are not "surfaces goal" they are everything but obvious.. For us, they might be clear, because we are used to understand how stories are crafted, but for casual readers those needs multiple readings.

2. The goal of this technique is not to find deep goal in conflictbut (again) to fin the moon similar reason for conflict between the two protagonist and make they battle for it.

But I think I undestand now..

Do you actually think that Truby's exemple of "the detective vs the murderer "was made describe a "shallow" exemple of story???????

No, it was an example of a shallow antagonist and an example of a deep one in the same example. Without the deeper level of "fighting over who controls what people believe", it's an example of a shallow antagonist. Once that's added in it becomes deep.

I'm not going to take the time to go through your whole list, but for one example, let's take Ussop vs Sugar. You said they are fighting over memories. I agree. But that's a surface level conflicting goal. Ussop is fighting to PROTECT memories, while Sugar is fighting to DESTROY them.

Just because they both involve memories doesn't make them the same goal. This is kindergarten level logic. It's also exactly the same as the surface level goals in the detective example, and does not have the deeper connected goal.

You claim people aren't thinking deeply enough, but you're the one who's not going past the surface. You spent 15 years analyzing One Piece based on Anatomy of a story, and your conclusion is that "beating each other" is the surface level goal? Come on now. If I spent 15 years focusing on One Piece and came to that childish of a conclusion I'd be having a serious exestential crisis. Go sit at the kids table where you belong.

 

[Ravagerblade]

I like Carrot and I was originally on team Carrot4Nakama but not anymore.

The best thing about Carrot is her Sulong form, and even then she can't always have it. Everything else is worse. I didn't like thr smile she had either. Was weird.

 

[Sigran101]

I like Carrot and I was originally on team Carrot4Nakama but not anymore.

Believe it or not, I like Carrot too. Imo her su long design is Oda's best character design by far, and her powers could be really interesting. She makes me laugh consistently when she's on the Sunny too. I wish she had a chance to join. I only argue against her because I just legitimately think she doesn't.

 

[Logiko]

No, it was an example of a shallow antagonist and an example of a deep one in the same example. Without the deeper level of "fighting over who controls what people believe", it's an example of a shallow antagonist. Once that's added in it becomes deep.

But. but.. NYYYooooooo xD

"For example, in a detective story, it appears that the hero wants to catch the killer and the opponent wants to get away. But they are really fighting over which version of reality everyone will believe."

Where do you see here that he is first showing an exemple of a shallow antagonist and then a deep one ????
This whole exemple IS an exemple of a good antagonism, Truby is simply putting a microscope on the example to tell you "here, you think this is shallow ? But look DEEPER, actually it's NOT"

And that's exactly what i'm doing with you with One Piece ! Again, you can't have a good story without that technique

I'm not going to take the time to go through your whole list, but for one example, let's take Ussop vs Sugar. You said they are fighting over memories. I agree. But that's a surface level conflicting goal. Ussop is fighting to PROTECT memories, while Sugar is fighting to DESTROY them.

Just because they both involve memories doesn't make them the same goal. This is kindergarten level logic. It's also exactly the same as the surface level goals in the detective example, and does not have the deeper connected goal.

But no.. that's NOT a surface goal. The goal of Usopp is to destroy Sugar while the goal of Sugar is to trap Luffy. THAT is the surface goal, a pretty simple a clear goal in fact!

The fact that both Usopp and Sugar are fighting for memories IS the deeper (and similar) goal, that's what Truby is trying to make us create in this paragraph!

And yes, it IS the same goal: The control over Memories. This might be kindergarten level logic, but you better understanding that quick if you want to write, because this is EXACTLY what Truby is describing here. Damn.. how can this be so hard to understand..?

You claim people aren't thinking deeply enough, but you're the one who's not going past the surface. You spent 15 years analyzing One Piece based on Anatomy of a story, and your conclusion is that "beating each other" is the surface level goal? Come on now. If I spent 15 years focusing on One Piece and came to that childish of a conclusion I'd be having a serious exestential crisis. Go sit at the kids table where you belong.

Oh no, I didn't spent 15 ears analysing One Piece on that bases, I used first others ressources. Aos is kind of a late addition for me.

Here, I think the problem is not thinking.. I think you understand in your own way that principle, but the logic of it.. you can't accept it.. it happened a lot for me with others Truby concepts like the transformation or desire/needs.. I thought I was understanding them.. but for some reason i kept missing the point, I had to try to decript a lot of stories to really understand those point and where I was a bit flabbergasted.

The problem is that I don't know if I can give you exemple of One Piece as you will always find a way to deny what Oda is writing. I think it will come in time so.. have fun, and good luck with your writing, you're gonna need it..

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

I like Carrot and I was originally on team Carrot4Nakama but not anymore.

it will change ;)

 

[DarkWitch]

Believe it or not, I like Carrot too. Imo her su long design is Oda's best character design by far, and her powers could be really interesting. She makes me laugh consistently when she's on the Sunny too. I wish she had a chance to join. I only argue against her because I just legitimately think she doesn't.

The way Carrot was treated during the Wano arc is the reason why my opinion of her joining the SHs changed.

She barely got any focus, her fight against Perospero was off screened, and instead of Carrot defeating Perospero it ended up being Neko.

At this point, the character I think that will join the SHs by the end of Wano is Yamato.

 

[Logiko]

The best thing about Carrot is her Sulong form, and even then she can't always have it. Everything else is worse. I didn't like thr smile she had either. Was weird.

you're weird

 

[Ravagerblade]

you're weird

That's not much coming from you.

 

[Pot Goblin]

Believe it or not, I like Carrot too. Imo her su long design is Oda's best character design by far, and her powers could be really interesting. She makes me laugh consistently when she's on the Sunny too. I wish she had a chance to join. I only argue against her because I just legitimately think she doesn't.

I'm a ride or die so I'm sticking with Carrot until the bitter end. But, I would be lying if I said this forum didn't shift my perspective about her as a potential Straw Hat.

I personally think she still has a chance to join if the cards play right. But the general vibe around her character right now is not looking too good in terms of her joining.

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2022

The way Carrot was treated during the Wano arc is the reason why my opinion of her joining the SHs changed.

She barely got any focus, her fight against Perospero was off screened, and instead of Carrot defeating Perospero it ended up being Neko.

At this point, the character I think that will join the SHs by the end of Wano is Yamato.

Now do you think Carrot is too far gone at this point or would a big hype redeeming moment involving the Straw Hats shift your view a little? Where Carrot joins alongside Yamato at the end of Wano instead of just Yamato.

 

[Staticshadic]

The way Carrot was treated during the Wano arc is the reason why my opinion of her joining the SHs changed.

She barely got any focus, her fight against Perospero was off screened, and instead of Carrot defeating Perospero it ended up being Neko.

At this point, the character I think that will join the SHs by the end of Wano is Yamato.

@Sigran101 was same boat as you