General & Others Oda Doesn't Have a Power Scaling
- Thread starter Uncle Van
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I get your point‚ but when we saw Kaido getting injured all these times by the supernovas‚ he wasn't fighting seriously. He was like ' I am glad these people can give me a good fight ' and Big Mom was like ’ You always like to play with your food '.
He got injured and wounded even when not fighting seriously ‚ great feat to the Supernovas‚ but none of these injuries mattered at all to Kaido. Even the Scabbards injured him.
If it is hybrid Kaido who is fighting seriously vs any of the Supernovas one on one...Kaido wins and I would say with no injuries.
He got injured and wounded even when not fighting seriously ‚ great feat to the Supernovas‚ but none of these injuries mattered at all to Kaido. Even the Scabbards injured him.
If it is hybrid Kaido who is fighting seriously vs any of the Supernovas one on one...Kaido wins and I would say with no injuries.
Ace and Jinbe could fight for 5 days.
Jack could fight the minks for 5 days
Akainu and Aokiji fought for 10 days
Oden and Kaido? Fight only lasts less than a day and Kaido almost gets one shotted. That's unlike anything that's ever happened in the series before.
Jack could fight the minks for 5 days
Akainu and Aokiji fought for 10 days
Oden and Kaido? Fight only lasts less than a day and Kaido almost gets one shotted. That's unlike anything that's ever happened in the series before.
That's legit no argument.
While with those days long battles he intends to portray those guys as significantly strong fighters, even though he off paneled them and he also can showcase how damn near equal they are.
Supernova and Kaido
Kaido no soled Boundman, emphasizing his durability
The Scabbard managed to stab Kaido with ACOA, making the latter scream in pain. Oda brought attention to this accomplishment by having fodder say this:
Kaido no soled Boundman, emphasizing his durability
The Scabbard managed to stab Kaido with ACOA, making the latter scream in pain. Oda brought attention to this accomplishment by having fodder say this:
CoA Boundman punch = 100 in actual attack power, but can't hurt Kaido
Kinemon sword strike with CoA on the sword = 30 in actual attack power (or whatever), but can hurt Kaido
Killer simply has one move that in its nature ignores outter durability. That's it.
Simply having the perks for overcoming a specific durability does in no way imply that either combatant is automatically superior to the other. That's the same with the Pacifista, but I'll come to that.
That's what a big chunk of the fanbase failed to actually get. You can't blame Oda for stuff like that, if people simply cannot get basic ability concepts.
Again a big amount of people always argued against that notion and actually did not hype Kinemon or Killer into the heavens, just because of two individual feats.
That rock smash stuff is bullcrap though, not going to argue against it. Similiar to that Kinemon advCoA club tanking feat, but single scenes aren't enough to serve your purpose, when everything's still okay in the grand sheme of things; especially when you got huge willpower themes and such involved into the story.
Coming from an east blue pirate, like Don Krieg being a 15mill (?) pirate in the weakest sea. Him hyping Zeff up is cool at that stage in the story, but you legitimately cannot act as if this was an indicator for endgame stuff or anything, when it clearly wasn't like what the hell "legendary". There are also a lot of "legendary" coaches in local boxing/wrestling gyms that didn't even make it to the national level, but were still the best in their club's history- means jackshit in both cases.
That's not a vaild argument.
Oda wanted to portray his sword's graze at hand of that bullet feat, and he did. He wanted to showcase his power and he did this with stuff that was at this stage and in this situatuon, the biggest you could pull out.
Again that's out of the perspective of east blue guys, while they are in the open water at Baratie. This is the best you can pull out at this moment, that doesn't mean that this is automatically meant to portray end game stuff.
MF was the place for that kinda stuff.
Unexpected =/= demanding. If some no name boy from a unknown village pulls up stuff that you wouldn't expect in those regions, it can catch you off guard. He still proceed to block it with his freakin pocket knife though.
Or this was actually the first time Oda wanted to showcase more serious/more top tier like feats, granted it was themed as the war of the best.
Lets not onto Luffy. Preskip Luffy could be a threat to "high tiers" like BB and Magellan.
The same BB who could do this:
And the same Magellan who had Jinbe and Crocodile not wanting to mess with him.
The same BB who could do this:
Luffy threw something like gigantic sea beast Momo kilometers through the air in Arlong Park. Sanji was kicking around gigantic sea creatures like it was his job already.
Cp9 created the illusion that there was a gigantic power inflation happening, even though the M3 and Franky arguably had higher base stats than their respective opponents and it was solely because of Rokushiki that those turned into very difficult fought battles.
2000 Douriki w/o any special skills <<< 800 Douriki with Rokushiki basically.
Luffy was also able to speedblitz higher ranking Marine officers in MF and knock out giants with G3. He also could punch Garp around like no problem.
He legit had insane punching power already. Post ts CoA was added to that, but at the same time very skilled and great opponents (Doffy,Chinjao,Kuri,Cracker) can also use this ability (CoA) for defensive purposes, thus neutralizing the extra haki on his attacks.
Basically means: Luffy already had high base strength and what he primarily gained through the Timeskip was haki, but if those guys (Magellan/BB) aren't using haki to defend themselves, it doesn't matter that Luffy did not had CoA back then.
If people would seperate themselves from the illusion that they suddenly gained 10x physically stronger over the timeskip, they'd see that this is pretty much a little weaker version of Post ts G2 Luffy without CoA punching Magellan and BB, while catching the latter even somewhat off guard.
Preskip Luffy was also no match for a pacifista and needed his entire crew to barely win, aka Pacifista>Yami Teach and Magellan?
Postskip Luffy became so powerful that he can EASILY one shot a Pacifista.
Zoro and Sanji could do the same
Postskip Luffy became so powerful that he can EASILY one shot a Pacifista.
Zoro and Sanji could do the same
Where your fault lies is to assume that a more efficient attack automatically equates into an overall scale. That's what people also do so hella wrong with Killer and Kinemon.
They simply gained the ability, in a sense, to hurt those unconventional high (steel+) durabilites. Give Zoro CoA on his blade or Sanji CoA on his foot and same stuff happens, that happened post ts.
Like it might even be that a Pacifista would be completely wrecked after a salve of Kuja arrows, even though those Kuja girls are individually <<<<<< to the M3 members.
They simply have the perk to wound that thing.
BTW that's the second scenario, next to the CP9, that creates that faulty illusion of massive power inflations, even though it's just CoA.
Even Luffy's power up wasn't enough
So is Magellan weak by postskip standards? Is Jinbe weak? But Jinbe had an even scuffle with postskip Luffy and Jinbe ran away from Magellan. BB? Preskip Luffy sent him flying but Postskip Luffy(at the start of the timeskip) is still portrayed weaker than Ace who lost to BB....just a power creep and nothing else. Power escalation leads to power creeps
So is Magellan weak by postskip standards? Is Jinbe weak? But Jinbe had an even scuffle with postskip Luffy and Jinbe ran away from Magellan. BB? Preskip Luffy sent him flying but Postskip Luffy(at the start of the timeskip) is still portrayed weaker than Ace who lost to BB....just a power creep and nothing else. Power escalation leads to power creeps
Speaking of Sanji, what about the Vinsmokes? Was it hard to scale them at first? Let's see why.
Sanji's full power was still unknown by the time WCI came around and he dent new character Yonji's face. We are told that its impressive but since we have no idea how strong either character is exactly, we have no idea where they stand on the power hierarchy.
New character Judge then has a circumstantial scuffle with Sanji which leaves Judge a completely unknown factor strength wise just like Yonji.
Remember new character Jack going over the new characters the dukes to show how impressive they are even though we have no clue how strong they are? It continued with Wano with new character Ashura Doji going over Jack. Once again, Jack's full power is unknown and was in base, leaving Ashura Doji as another wild card like many others.
Sanji's full power was still unknown by the time WCI came around and he dent new character Yonji's face. We are told that its impressive but since we have no idea how strong either character is exactly, we have no idea where they stand on the power hierarchy.
New character Judge then has a circumstantial scuffle with Sanji which leaves Judge a completely unknown factor strength wise just like Yonji.
Remember new character Jack going over the new characters the dukes to show how impressive they are even though we have no clue how strong they are? It continued with Wano with new character Ashura Doji going over Jack. Once again, Jack's full power is unknown and was in base, leaving Ashura Doji as another wild card like many others.
Snack for example as an ex Sweet commander probably is the next best thing right after YC3. You got the Veteran guys, that are, as a collective similiar to the F6, the next best thing after the respective Top3 commander group.
You make it sound like we got absolutely nothing at hand for powerscaling even though it's completely not true.
Oda even gives guys special perks within SBSs and databooks, just like Oven having the toughest body.
If you see someone then manhandling those guys you can aniticipate where that someone stands in the grand sheme of things. And granted that most of the time the story is highly Strawhat focused you got completely legit scales for most guys via connectings links like Sanji (Daifuku/Oven <-> Vergo/Smoker) or Luffy (G3 vs Cracker, vs Fuji, vs Yamato).
Same way you can do it, if guys (3 top Scabbards) have a go at Jack, who's the third top commander out of Kaido's crew.
For the most part everything is totally scaleable. People simply did not want to rescale guys like Vergo, Smoker, Doffy and Sanji, cause of likeability and recency bias towards other characters.
What's additionally super special if it's about those guys I listed above is, that that people cannot and couldn't scale martial arts skill/agility/evasiveness, as if those aren't actual stats/real.
Already happened to Sanji, during Enies Lobby, where he simply danced around Jabra most of the time and a big chunk of the fandom still does not get that this Sanji's skills and agility/speed is what troubled Jabra so much.
Basically: What made base Doffy beat Law on the bridge and what made Smoker pressure Law this much, was skill and agility (Doffy)/evasiveness (Smoker). If one recognized that already on PH you could have seen Law pimping different commanders coming, even if Jack or X commander overall > base Doffy, cause they are super weak match ups for him. [Not saying that you didn't or anything, just writing stuff down].
You see those guys are not only YC4 or low high tier or mid high tier in physical strength or whatever is someone's personal scale/ranking, they are actually super skilled, versatiled and agile characters with mid high tier/low high tier stats.
When we see a guy like Oven getting decked by a freakin cannonball, you can actually imagine how well he would fare against stuff like Smoker's A+ evasiveness. Or when none of them shows any haki game, you can imagine how much fun they would have with Vergo's supreme CoA game.
And that's what makes the big difference now. That's why people are now in denial about Law's feats, Sanji's performance and Doffy's ranking.
I remember how you for example also argued that Jack "cannot be damaged" by Doffy, just because Soru using, super fast and agile Luffy could dodge stuff like Doffy's "break white", the move, where he crushes someone with bulding thick strings. As if, just because Jack is overall stronger than base/G2 Luffy he automatically can perform any feat that version of Luffy can. Which is clearly false.
The problem is that out of such constructions completely faulty scales arise.
That's why it also still makes sense, that Katakuri never had so much trouble hitting anyone else with Mogura, cause Luffy is freakin fast, a super small target and has his rubber malleability, where he actively can manipulate the location of his head and limbs and stuff. All stuff that overall stronger characters might not have.
And all those things further trigger that "Anti Powerscale" agenda/illusion, if you don't get behind those.
The major problems:
1. Not recognizing how insanely strong the M3 was since east blue + not realizing that the SHs got stronger via single, very distinctive power ups
2. Postulating a big power inflation, because they transfer Rokushiki techs onto base stats.
3. Again postulating a big power inflation, because they transfer the quirks that the ability "CoA" brings with it onto base stats: Pacifista/Kaido durability or how Zoro went from 108 pc to a 1080pc and how he can bump out very powerful attacks, even without much physical strength (air slash under Fuji's gravity) -> infusing advCoA haki blasts into attacks, NOT becomiing 10000x more phyiscally stronger.
4. 1+2+3 leading to the belief in massive Zenkai boosts. As if two weeks chilling on the ship really outscales real power ups (asinine).
5. The unability to scale or recognize skill/agility/evasiveness as very important stats (Sanji, Smoker, Vergo, base Doffy, Luffy, Kuri).
6. Believing that everyone who's superior overall has to be superior in everything the inferior one can do (Standardized top tier stats was a bad, bad thing for years until Fujitora happened for example) -> Especially "Point 5" hits most Y2/3 Commanders -point 6- hard.
7. Not accepting that certain relatively weak guys can have tiers surpassing special quirks: E.g. Chopper's guard point blocking Big Mom's slap.
I'm not saying that there aren't any mistakes (Croco boy too early introduced) or inconsistencies (Kinemon tanking that club is super weird for example), but overall Oda is doing a damn fine job. A big chunk of the fandom simply transfers a lot of wishful thinking and biases and faulty believes into it.
Like so many whine about "ugh fucked up powerscales", but Oda would never let Ussop knock out P1 with a super willpowered up punch or stuff like that. Same way Chopper did jackshit against Queen. Y'all act if stuff like this is happening on a daily basis. I call bull on that.
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Before I start im not arguing that one piece has bad or good power scaling, I just disagree with some of your points.
because he didnt low diff Vista, his a very strong just because Mihawk is strongest swordsman doesnt mean he will low or mid diff other strong swordsman.
so luffy didnt have the right CoA to get pass his defence and also theres high theres at least 4 and maybe 6 of them are commder level, so I dont see the problem .
wait zoro was conscious there was nothing that was shown he was still conscious after the attack.
the sweat meant nothing he destroyed zoro staight after that, i like how some fans put so much stok you put into sweat BS but when oda explains how Scabbards cut kaido but still say how the hell are they cutting him but sweat thats shows the powerlevel of someone.
Its showed how casual he can do these feats that is so impreaseve in the east blue(the weakest sea) to show what the charaters at the top can casualy do to show how much the crew needs to grow.
shows what he can do when he puts some effort while in a war with other top tier charaters and not fodders like in the east blue.
so i cant direct reply to this.
Postskip, we have guys destroying mountains and splitting continents, lifting islands etc. which only serves to once again, make Mihawk look unimpressive by comparison.
This only showed other characters have simaler feats to mihawk but we havnt seen him go full ot so it doesnt make mihawk look unimpressive by comparison.
Seriously BB took multiple eathquake blast to the face, luffy was not a threat its wouldnt matter how many attacks luffy lands on BB he take the hits and get up because thats what BB does in fights.
luffy didny fight magellan at strongest a the first time.
wow luffy surprise punch BB, so when did luffy block a giant wall of BB darkness.
maybe they are scared of this.
luffy didnt fight Magellan at his best the first time.
Nope he wasnt a threat to them.
You mean general franky, what the poblem.
because he didnt low diff Vista, his a very strong just because Mihawk is strongest swordsman doesnt mean he will low or mid diff other strong swordsman.
so luffy didnt have the right CoA to get pass his defence and also theres high theres at least 4 and maybe 6 of them are commder level, so I dont see the problem .
wait zoro was conscious there was nothing that was shown he was still conscious after the attack.
the sweat meant nothing he destroyed zoro staight after that, i like how some fans put so much stok you put into sweat BS but when oda explains how Scabbards cut kaido but still say how the hell are they cutting him but sweat thats shows the powerlevel of someone.
Its showed how casual he can do these feats that is so impreaseve in the east blue(the weakest sea) to show what the charaters at the top can casualy do to show how much the crew needs to grow.
shows what he can do when he puts some effort while in a war with other top tier charaters and not fodders like in the east blue.
so i cant direct reply to this.
Postskip, we have guys destroying mountains and splitting continents, lifting islands etc. which only serves to once again, make Mihawk look unimpressive by comparison.
This only showed other characters have simaler feats to mihawk but we havnt seen him go full ot so it doesnt make mihawk look unimpressive by comparison.
Seriously BB took multiple eathquake blast to the face, luffy was not a threat its wouldnt matter how many attacks luffy lands on BB he take the hits and get up because thats what BB does in fights.
luffy didny fight magellan at strongest a the first time.
wow luffy surprise punch BB, so when did luffy block a giant wall of BB darkness.
maybe they are scared of this.
luffy didnt fight Magellan at his best the first time.
Nope he wasnt a threat to them.
You mean general franky, what the poblem.
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What a cope thread. Just because you don't understand the One piece power structure doesn't mean that Oda doesn't have a power scaling.
There's been multiple people who have called character powerlevels accurately because they actually read the manga based on Oda's hints about powerlevel not blind hype.
If Oda didn't have a power scale, Nami and Ussop would've soloed Ulti and Page One
There's been multiple people who have called character powerlevels accurately because they actually read the manga based on Oda's hints about powerlevel not blind hype.
If Oda didn't have a power scale, Nami and Ussop would've soloed Ulti and Page One