ONE PIECE CHAPTER 1011: RED BEAN CODE OF HONOR

[Peroroncino]

I don't pick sides, if you are saying something consistent, honest and makes sense I am with you. My judgement will be flawed at times but that's what I look for above all else.
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You said that the doriki was without the df i told you df doesn't affect doriki.

it clearly does since zoan's increase physical ability

 

[Taper]

it clearly does since zoan's increase physical ability

did you even read those panels?

 

[Peroroncino]

did you even read those panels?

the one where he mentions that the technique only measures the thing that zoan df fruits increase?

 

[Taper]

the one where he mentions that the technique only measures the thing that zoan df fruits increase?

He says to kaku to not get too cocky because doriki only measures base physical power, then he separates the two by stating that in an actual fight he would have his df ability. It's so obvious man you can't be serious.

 

[Peroroncino]

He says to kaku to not get too cocky because doriki only measure physical power, then he separates the two by stating that in an actual fight he would have his df ability. It's so obvious man you can't be serious.

yeah he said that to kaku because kaku didn't have the increase from his df yet

 

[Taper]

yeah he said that to kaku because kaku didn't have the increase from his df yet

No, he is telling Kaku not to get cocky just because he has a higher doriki, why? because he says in an actual fight he would use his df which when in that form makes him much stronger. There is a separation there to inform us that doriki is separate and doesn't include df ability.

 

[Peroroncino]

No, he is telling Kaku not to get cocky just because he has a higher doriki, why? because he says in an actual fight he would use his df which when in that form makes him much stronger. There is a separation there to inform us that doriki is separate and doesn't include df ability.

oh so now you accept that zoans increase physical ability, so if kaku has higher doriki without the increase when he got it naturally that makes him even higher than jabra

 

[Taper]

oh so now you accept that zoans increase physical ability, so if kaku has higher doriki without the increase when he got it naturally that makes him even higher than jabra

You are not understanding at all.

 

[Peroroncino]

You are not understanding at all.

that's ironic coming from you, apparently DFs aren't power ups at all

 

[Taper]

oh so now you accept that zoans increase physical ability, so if kaku has higher doriki without the increase when he got it naturally that makes him even higher than jabra

I am saying that kaku's doriki will stay the same even when he eats the devil fruit unless he is in his zoan form, because doriki does not include ones devil fruit ability.

 

[NAMELESS]

oh so now you accept that zoans increase physical ability, so if kaku has higher doriki without the increase when he got it naturally that makes him even higher than jabra

As i undestand,Zoans increase your stats when you transform!Jabra was talking about that!So Zoan Kaku>Zoan Jabra,but Zoan Jabra>base Kaku(dfless)!

 

[Raughtale]

I think this Zoan discussion has no clear answer since as far as I can tell there's no way to tell if the physical stat increase applies at all times or only when the Zoan is active, cases with Mythical zoans can't be used to apply to regular zoans since they stand as exceptions and have shown that their abilities can be used even in base.

 

[Peroroncino]

I think this Zoan discussion has no clear answer since as far as I can tell there's no way to tell if the physical stat increase applies at all times or only when the Zoan is active, cases with Mythical zoans can't be used to apply to regular zoans since they stand as exceptions and have shown that their abilities can be used even in base.

when ulti headbutted luffy , he mentioned how strong she was and she headbutted him in base even though the headbutting power comes from her DF which has a hard head made for headbutting.
It's obvious zoan's become stronger and tougher even in base form.

 

[Taper]

As i undestand,Zoans increase your stats when you transform!Jabra was talking about that!So Zoan Kaku>Zoan Jabra,but Zoan Jabra>base Kaku(dfless)!

Exactly so its like this. kaku: 2200 (base) Jabra: 2180(base) then when they actually transform it scales up so hypothetically, Kaku : 6200(zoan form) Jabra: 6180(zoan form), this is not canon just a way to illustrate how it works.
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when ulti headbutted luffy , he mentioned how strong she was and she headbutted him in base even though the headbutting power comes from her DF which has a hard head made for headbutting.
It's obvious zoan's become stronger and tougher even in base form.

The exposition in the panels regarding doriki is what we are discussing. It's clearly stated as 2 separate things.

 

[pg13]

Sanji would fight him differently than zoro did, he would be more elusive and focus on hitting mr1 weak points. Mr.2 was able to land a decent kick on mr1 in their little skirmish, now imagine sanji.

Yea Mr.2 only looked good whenever Mr.1 Wasn't using his abilities. And he didn't do any damage he just sent him flying. I dont think Sanji could defeat Mr.1 until Diable Jambe was introduced.

 

[Raughtale]

when ulti headbutted luffy , he mentioned how strong she was and she headbutted him in base even though the headbutting power comes from her DF which has a hard head made for headbutting.
It's obvious zoan's become stronger and tougher even in base form.

That's a generous use of the word obvious, Ulti being strong and having a predilection for headbutts doesn't necessarily mean it's due to being a zoan, hell using the rare fact that we have someone like Kaku who became a recent user it's odd that he never pointed out that he felt stronger than usual after eating it if Oda actually wanted to make that a significant point.

 

[eexpert]

The lurking legend was remnants of the rocks pirates aka BM & Kaido alliance.
Why are people still waiting for the lurking legend to appear?

Because it will bring more chaos and/or uncertainty:
-Alliance is about to win, LL comes and changes the direction of the wind.
-Marines got involved, things look dire for pirates, LL comes and brings balance.
-LL comes, CP0 & Sword inform their superiors, marines comes 3-4 way battle starts.

In short, if LL is really a legend, he will drag other powerful forces into the Wano battle and increase the size of it.

 

[Peroroncino]

That's a generous use of the word obvious, Ulti being strong and having a predilection for headbutts doesn't necessarily mean it's due to being a zoan, hell using the rare fact that we have someone like Kaku who became a recent user it's odd that he never pointed out that he felt stronger than usual after eating it if Oda actually wanted to make that a significant point.

she is a pachicephalosaurus a dinossaur that headbutts it's enemies, hence why she does it too, are you saying she was already headbutting people when her head was softer and without the strength increase from the zoan?
Besides the doriki thing didn't measure kaku's swords either so increase his power even higher than that in your measurements.

 

[Taper]

Yea Mr.2 only looked good whenever Mr.1 Wasn't using his abilities. And he didn't do any damage he just sent him flying. I dont think Sanji could defeat Mr.1 until Diable Jambe was introduced.

Zoro couldn't cut steel until he just learned it on the spot when fighting mr.1, you don't think if sanji fought mr.1 he could just get a powerup like zoro did? or being as smart as he is just figure out a way to win without needing to break steel. Look at anti manner kick course, sanji can kick with force mr.2 never showed back in alabasta, so if a normal kick like that could send mr.1 back a well placed kick from sanji could do much more.
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she is a pachicephalosaurus a dinossaur that headbutts it's enemies, hence why she does it too, are you saying she was already headbutting people when her head was softer and without the strength increase from the zoan?
Besides the doriki thing didn't measure kaku's swords either so increase his power even higher than that in your measurements.

Well doriki didn't measure the effects a carnivorous zoan has, which is stated to be a more ferocious type in combat, jabra also was the only one capable of moving while using tekkai and you are forgetting that jabra had been using his fruit for longer than kaku had. Besides sanji was beat up badly before engaging with Jabra and still finished his fight faster than zoro. So ya swords are an addition but then its all up to debate as to how much it boosted him, I may say it boosted him 20 percent you may say 50 percent who knows whats important is Oda chose to make them that close.

 

[pg13]

Really don't think it would be a low diff but that's not the point. Point is that the 2 being kept at different levels doesn't say anything about their strength at that point. I personally don't think there was a lot of difference in strength between Zoro and Sanji Pre-TS. Timeskip is when the difference increased a lot, both, due to one being trained by a top tier and Oda trying to separate Luffy and Zoro as the monsters of the crew with Sanji being a link between the 'monsters' and the 'humans' in the crew.

This is another misconception, The difference didn't change post timeskip , Post Timeskip The Strawhats as a unit rarely fight together anymore, and thats only time Sanji gets any combat focus.... when the entire crew is getting it together. Its really just Fishman Island and now Wano when oda fleshed out the crew in terms of combat. Zoro and Luffy get fights regardless, Sanji gets fights when entire crew is getting them.