Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1104 Spoilers Discussion

[Moegara]

I’m saying Sanjis is the first time odas outright called it invisibility and the power to disappear.

No one else has had it called that outright by the author. Which is the exact point that regardless of how fast any opponent is; sanjis invisible because he has the power to become invisible.

Could they use their observation haki to counter it? Yea. Just like Sanji could against Queens form of invisibility; but to their eyes; sanjis conpletely invisible.

Just like Kuro was completely invisible to their eyes. That's how "moving too fast to see" works.

Haki and physical strength isn't the only thing that grow on our MCs as the story progresses. CoO isn't the only way their reactions and perception improve.

If Sanji's really the first one Oda's said it outright about, he can keep that cool fact, I'm not even dishing Sanji here, but that's all those words from Oda are. Oda was stating the obvious, we all saw Sanji move so fast he disappeared to Queen.

What Sanji did could be equally observed from Kuro vs East Blue Luffy and Nami (but CoO-less Enies Lobby Luffy would murder him mid-movement on the first panel). Or from Lucci as a kid murdering soldiers who couldn't see him move, unlike Gear 2 Luffy later in life. Or even from King vs Zoro (as admitted by himself). There are too many examples. The examples of it happening on panel and affecting characters differently depending on their "level" won't change simply because Oda chose to wrote a sentence describing Sanji's latest powerup.



This doesn't even mean Sanji can't impress Kizaru with his speed, props to him if he does, just that the whole "disappearing" implications are heavily overblown, as are most things Sanji does.

 

[LayerZ]

Huh? Luffy goes instantly too G5 to fight Lucci, him never said him was in his Limit, yet Lucci was fighting him face to face, while Kizaru don't, Lucci received 3 punches to goes to lose coinciousness while Kizaru got one tapped, boths received a named attack.

Boths made Luffy goes to his Drawbacks while boths was better than Luffy afterwards.

This is false . Luffy is way more exausted after kizaru then he is after lucci smiling whne lucci came back . Luffy never said or implied being at his limit vs lucci or never shown any fatigue ro sweats or wathever when he was fighting lucci it was a low diff he was having fun even sleeping while fighting him stop the cap !
Kizaru vs luffy was off screened but way harder for luffy and anyone can see it . If you can't just buy new glasses .

 

[Moegara]

Yep, Saturn is OP ASF, dude got regeneration even crazy than Marco.

Marco can also regenerate limbs and his head, I don't know if it's crazier.

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

Dude fought Gear 5 luffy until luffy hit his limit. And “running away” sounds like you’re making excuses for Luffy not being able to keep up with Kizarus speed since Kizaru wasn’t even focused on Luffy during this fight.

This isn’t an L for either of them. Neither won that fight

Since when I said anyone of them was the winner? When I am against people who said that Kizaru won, when this isn't true. Making Luffy's drawbacks as Kizaru reasons to declare as Kizaru is stronger than Yonko or Luffy.

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2024

Nope, because there you can argue Luffy was messing around but against Kizaru he was pushed to it which is a much better look

Luffy was messing around with Kizaru too, dude eat Kizaru Lasers.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Since when I said any one of them was the winner? When I am against people who said that Kizaru won, when this isn't true. Making Luffy's drawbacks as Kizaru reasons to declare as Kizaru is stronger than Yonko or Luffy.

There is nothing wrong with using Luffy’s drawbacks???

 

[Sentry22]

Imagine setting the bar of victory so low that you see an L as a Win. If I was an Admiral fan I'd be ashamed.

 

[LayerZ]

Their fight played out exactly like Luffy vs Kizaru.
Luffy kept playing and when his limit was almost out he stopped and knocked them out.

There's no reason he couldn't have done this to Doffy from the start. Just like there was no reason he couldn't just use WSG on Kizaru from the start.

Yes there is one finisher are harder to lands. Luffy always wear down his oposition before trying to finish them kaido is the best exemple . Luffy was not jkust fighting him in base for fun he was wearing him down by using the less stamina and haki possible then he tried finished him with gear 4 acoc amp after kaido powered up with alchool because now he had a time limit .
Luffy will never start with a finisher he will always try wear them down well vs strong oposition .

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Just like Kuro was completely invisible to their eyes. That's how "moving too fast to see" works.

Haki and physical strength isn't the only thing that grow on our MCs as the story progresses. CoO isn't the only way their reactions and perception improve.

If Sanji's really the first one Oda's said it outright about, he can keep that cool fact, I'm not even dishing Sanji here, but that's all those words from Oda are. Oda was stating the obvious, we all saw Sanji move so fast he disappeared to Queen.

What Sanji did could be equally observed from Kuro vs East Blue Luffy and Nami (but CoO-less Enies Lobby Luffy would murder him mid-movement on the first panel). Or from Lucci as a kid murdering soldiers who couldn't see him move, unlike Gear 2 Luffy later in life. Or even from King vs Zoro (as admitted by himself). There are too many examples. The examples of it happening on panel and affecting characters differently depending on their "level" won't change simply because Oda chose to wrote a sentence describing Sanji's latest powerup.



This doesn't even mean Sanji can't impress Kizaru with his speed, props to him if he does, just that the whole "disappearing" implications are heavily overblown, as are most things Sanji does.

Oda said Sanji gained the ability to disappear. There was no caveat saying it’s because Queens eyes were too slow; it’s just an ability Sanji now has is that he is able to disappear like Shiryu and Queen

 

[Monkey D Theories]

True. Kid > Post Udon Luffy. We have direct portrayal against the same opponent in Apoo good point.

This is such a shit analogy. Luffy didn’t even try to fight Apoo, he was just cheap shot.

We did, however, see Zoro and Drake fight Apoo.

A better analogy would be Zoro>Kid>Drake based off how much difficult they had against Apoo.

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

This is false . Luffy is way more exausted after kizaru then he is after lucci smiling whne lucci came back . Luffy never said or implied being at his limit vs lucci or never shown any fatigue ro sweats or wathever when he was fighting lucci it was a low diff he was having fun even sleeping while fighting him stop the cap !
Kizaru vs luffy was off screened but way harder for luffy and anyone can see it . If you can't just buy new glasses .

Luffy was exhausted because him was fighting since his fight against Lucci, dude fights Lucci, than goes to fight Seraphim.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Ultimately Kuma could land a serious hit on Saturn

Sanji couldn’t

don’t know why there’s so much cope

 

[LayerZ]

Luffy was exhausted because him was fighting since his fight against Lucci, dude fights Lucci, than goes to fight Seraphim.

lucci fight was 1 day ago keep up with the time .

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Their fight played out exactly like Luffy vs Kizaru.
Luffy kept playing and when his limit was almost out he stopped and knocked them out.

There's no reason he couldn't have done this to Doffy from the start. Just like there was no reason he couldn't just use WSG on Kizaru from the start.

If luffy immediately went gear 4 there’s no chance he’d ever do enough damage to Doffy to knock him out in one go. Doesn’t matter if he adds King Kong gun; Doffy took all those attacks plus laws gamma knife and counter shock that even made big mom scream in pain.

Luffy just was too weak to put Doffy down

 

[Indigo]

is Sanji fighting Kizaru? wanna see how he does

 

[Sir Yasheen]

This is such a shit analogy. Luffy didn’t even try to fight Apoo, he was just cheap shot.

We did, however, see Zoro and Drake fight Apoo.

A better analogy would be Zoro>Kid>Drake based off how much difficult they had against Apoo.

Luffy was hit by a random DF hax and had no defense for it cause he didn’t know how it worked. It’s pretty much the perfect analogy seeing how that’s exactly what happened to Sanji lmao

 

[Paperchampion23]

Kizaru is not going down for good .
This vs match will end with a no one winning since Kizaru not getting write out the story .

Why not? 2 Yonko were written out of the story after they lost. If Kizaru officially loses or dies, he can effectively be written out of the story because he served his characters purpose in Egghead, to be an antagonist here. Same idea with Saturn, nobody is safe from this

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

There is nothing wrong with using Luffy’s drawbacks???

For making someone stronger than a Whole group or Luffy, since his got down because of his Transformations drawbacks, not because of Kizaru attacks.

Now I can agree that Kizaru maybe has more Stamina than Luffy, stronger? Nah.

 

[LayerZ]

ANd for the kid vs luffy debate I had Kid stronger then pre acoc luffy . HE did not gain any power up in wano he already was awokened simply was not using it because of stamina cost . SO roof top kid was not kid being serious at all but luffy was giving everything with advanced armement . Kid awakening look stronger then luffy before acoc . Same with law he also look stronger .

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2024

Why not? 2 Yonko were written out of the story after they lost. If Kizaru officially loses or dies, he can effectively be written out of the story because he served his characters purpose in Egghead, to be an antagonist here. Same idea with Saturn, nobody is safe from this

who would replace him tought ? Koby not ready yet . Can't pull a Naruto and jump from captain to amiral .

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2024

is Sanji fighting Kizaru? wanna see how he does

probably look good for a while then get stomped or something happend and save him .

 

[Water1415]

Let me guess the straw hats Lizaru attacks are Usopp Chopper and the ones that fight back are Sanji and Jimbe

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

Sanji vs Kizaru = to Protect SHs, to wait Luffy come back?