Chapter Discussion One Piece Chapter 1168: ELBAF'S SNOW

[Paperchampion23]

Hmm, now I am questioning the 8+5 count for the 13 (or honestly have no idea lol)

Went back and looked through Garling's 5(!!!) different intro boxes (wtf lol) and 4 of the 5 times he has a different position in the WG

- 38-40 years ago, Knight of God (in Kuma and Rocks' flashbacks)

** Note that you can see 4 of the 5 Known Gorosei here and we know Saturn has been around for hundreds of years. Keep this thought for later***


- 24 years ago, Commander/Captain of Knights of God (called Dancho in Japanese). Shamrock currently has this position.

- Present Day, Supreme Commander (called Saiko Shireikan in Japanese) of the Knights of God

- Present day, Gorosei

So when you frame it like this, the count starts to get weird.

- We know at least 40 years ago, the current Gorosei exist. So thats 5, right?
- Well, 38 years ago, Garling still neither has the Commander nor Supreme Commander titles. There are 7 revealed Knights in God Valley. But if these positions exist, then it would imply at least 9 God Knights exist.
- 24 years ago, he's promoted as commander and his son becomes a Knight presumably (or at least is one by 15 years ago). This would assume the Commander or Supreme Commander were removed and he went up the ladder. His open Knight position then was taken by Shamrock.
- 14 years ago, Shanks, then Harald are offered a knight position. To this point I would assume Garling was promoted again to Supreme Commander and his son Commander, however we dont have any confirmation on this. Harald obviously dies, leaving a vacant position.
- Now to present day, both Gunko and Killingham are Knights. Saturn was killed, and Garling is promoted a 3rd time, but we arent sure if he left his commander seat vacant. Worse yet, they offer a Knight Position to Loki lol.


So now just looking at this, unless Oda is killing off character designs he hasn't introduced, the count doesnt work?

- 5 Gorosei (including Garling)
- Shamrock
- Sommers
- Killingham
- Gunko
- Plus the 5 other Knight designs in God Valley.

Thats 14 total....with Loki being offered a position.

Now yes, 1 of the 5 could be dead. Maffey oddly enough looks like she could be Killingham's mother or something, even though their family names are different. But weirder is her the random power she shows. Does she have Kizaru's DF at this time lol?

She shoots a beam at Dragon and the only other things that can do this are Pacifista which literally copy Kizaru's logia powers

Then we have the fact that Loki is offered another open position.

So essentially we have 2 options:

- The 13 include the Gorosei, Maffey died and either the Commander or Supreme Commander didnt exist before Garling. But it makes it weird that Shamrock offered Loki a vacant position then. Yes, Saturn dies, but then this would mean at least 2 of the 5 Knight designs in GV are dead.

- The 13 dont include the Gorosei because every God Knight is still alive and the count goes to at least 14. This makes it easier but sort of contradicts the 13 statements because the Gorosei seem to just have elevated powers to Knights.


Now I dont know anymore lol

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Hmm, now I am questioning the 8+5 count for the 13 (or honestly have no idea lol)

Went back and looked through Garling's 5(!!!) different intro boxes (wtf lol) and 4 of the 5 times he has a different position in the WG

- 38-40 years ago, Knight of God (in Kuma and Rocks' flashbacks)

** Note that you can see 4 of the 5 Known Gorosei here and we know Saturn has been around for hundreds of years. Keep this thought for later***


- 24 years ago, Commander/Captain of Knights of God (called Dancho in Japanese). Shamrock currently has this position.

- Present Day, Supreme Commander (called Saiko Shireikan in Japanese) of the Knights of God

- Present day, Gorosei

So when you frame it like this, the count starts to get weird.

- We know at least 40 years ago, the current Gorosei exist. So thats 5, right?
- Well, 38 years ago, Garling still neither has the Commander nor Supreme Commander titles. There are 7 revealed Knights in God Valley. But if these positions exist, then it would imply at least 9 God Knights exist.
- 24 years ago, he's promoted as commander and his son becomes a Knight presumably (or at least is one by 15 years ago). This would assume the Commander or Supreme Commander were removed and he went up the ladder. His open Knight position then was taken by Shamrock.
- 14 years ago, Shanks, then Harald are offered a knight position. To this point I would assume Garling was promoted again to Supreme Commander and his son Commander, however we dont have any confirmation on this. Harald obviously dies, leaving a vacant position.
- Now to present day, both Gunko and Killingham are Knights. Saturn was killed, and Garling is promoted a 3rd time, but we arent sure if he left his commander seat vacant.


So now just looking at this, unless Oda is killing off character designs he hasn't introduced, the count doesnt work?

- 5 Gorosei (including Garling)
- Shamrock
- Sommers
- Killingham
- Gunko
- Plus the 5 other Knight designs in God Valley.

Thats 14 total....

Now yes, 1 of the 5 could be dead. Maffey oddly enough looks like she could be Killingham's mother or something, even though their family names are different. But weirder is her the random power she shows. Does she have Kizaru's DF at this time lol?

She shoots a beam at Dragon and the only other things that can do this are Pacifista which literally copy Kizaru's logia powers

So essentially we have 2 options:

- The 13 include the Gorosei, Maffey died and either the Commander or Supreme Commander didnt exist before Garling.
- The 13 dont include the Gorosei because every God Knight is still alive and the count goes to at least 14


Now I dont know anymore lol

i feel like commander and supreme commander were roles created for Garling because of god valley and revealing the hidden Davy family.

 

[Paperchampion23]

i feel like commander and supreme commander were roles created for Garling because of god valley and revealing the hidden Davy family.

Yeah then in that way the count works

- 38 years ago had 5 Gorosei + 7 Knights. Maybe an 8th existed but it doesnt matter, Oda just doesnt give us a 13th member at that point.
- 24 years ago he has the first Commander title and Shamrock joins the Knights. That would make 13 right there without any of the 7 on GV dying
- 14 years ago, Harald becomes a knight, which DOES imply someone dies or is removed from the GV group. Then Harald dies, leaving Gunko or Killingham to join
- Present day, Saturn dies, Garling moves from Commander to Supreme Commander to Gorosei, but thats only 1 position left for Killingham or Gunko


If we assume they were lying to Loki, then maybe only Maffey died since it seems like she had the Pika Pika no Mi. If they werent, then a 2nd Knight died by that point lol.

Either way, Oda will have to show us all designs eventually, somethings gotta give

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Yeah then in that way the count works

- 38 years ago had 5 Gorosei + 7 Knights. Maybe an 8th existed but it doesnt matter, Oda just doesnt give us a 13th member at that point.
- 24 years ago he has the first Commander title and Shamrock joins the Knights. That would make 13 right there without any of the 7 on GV dying
- 14 years ago, Harald becomes a knight, which DOES imply someone dies or is removed from the GV group. Then Harald dies, leaving Gunko or Killingham to join
- Present day, Saturn dies, Garling moves from Commander to Supreme Commander to Gorosei, but thats only 1 position left for Killingham or Gunko


If we assume they were lying to Loki, then maybe only Maffey died since it seems like she had the Pika Pika no Mi. If they werent, then a 2nd Knight died by that point lol.

Either way, Oda will have to show us all designs eventually, somethings gotta give

My guess:
7 Holy Knights + 5 Gorosei + 1 Vessel for Mu
Killingham takes over for Maffey who is executed for letting Shanks be kidnapped
Imu switches his vessel to Gunko some time in the past 38 years, stopping her aging and promoting her

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Mid

 

[OPKnK]

Imu is insane .
Harald like i don't mind if other giants want to join the marines they free to do that .
Imu like nope i want your whole nation , come Imu you don't need the whole country lmao .

 

[sanjikun]

I'm done with this flashback tbh. I hope we're back to present time after next chapter.

 

[OPKnK]

Also forget to mention his best buddy rocks was still keeping aspect close to his chest if the man not even tell harald about Imu.
That would have really help harald out rocks lol .

 

[Urouge D. Rouge]

harald is a fool with a heart of gold, i feel bad for him but Woki will fix it

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Also forget to mention his best buddy rocks was still keeping aspect close to his chest if the man not even tell harald about Imu.
That would have really help harald out rocks lol .

One Piece characters don't communicate

 

[Kizaruber Eats]

Harald this chapter:

Great chapter though, glad we're finally getting an answer for Harald's death and the abyss circle in the castle.

The art was stunning this chapter, silence can speak much more loudly than words too. Those panels of Ida's death scene and Imu threatening Harald really stood out to be especially but the chapter was drawn amazingly as a whole.

Ida dying when it was snowing, her and Harald wishing to travel again, him wanting to marry her for years but cockblocked by the asshole, purist elders, Ida always seeing Loki as her son, Lokis immense tragedies, burdens and so on, tears man.

The sad thing is too, I think lola and Loki would have gotten along under different circumstances and had a beauty and the beast type romance. Or if he met chiffon instead.
But he has Mosa now, whether they are Shirahoshi or not too. She is the perfect match for him personality wise to befriend him and such.

 

[GeneralP123]

Hopefully eternal loser Harald dies a painful death next chapter.

 

[OykotsTreasure]

On the cover page, we see Hatchan get some gloves from some little sheep. It's cute!

So, there's some confusion about whether it's supposed to be "Elbaph" or "Elbaf". I guess I'm going back to "Elbaf" for now, but seriously, someone needs to pick a lane, here.

15 years ago, Elbaf is getting popular all over the world. We might all think that Harald's actions are stupid, but they DO seem to be effective. This is why countries choose to work with the World Government. Say what you will about them...but it does work (up to a point). Of note, we see "Elbaf Cedar" wood being popular. I'm not sure if that's the same as wood from the Treasure Tree Adam. If so...I guess the Treasure Tree Adam is confirmed as a variety of Cedar tree?

The Walrus school has been built. "Better Sharp Kids than Sharp Blades" is actually a pretty poetic line.

Everything seems to be going great for the Giants! So...I guess we're going to be in for a pretty bad turn of fortune soon, huh?

Oh no...Ida's dead. Ugh...no. I liked her. Stupid literal poisonous relatives.

"In my heart, I've always thought of him like that" You mean how you ignore him and don't really have much to do with him? And you haven't even ever checked his eyes, even out of curiosity? Then again, Harald's pretty "hands off" with Hajruden, too, so I guess he's still treating them equally.

Harald just wanted to go travelling with Ida again....*SOBS* Stupid Flashback-Mother-Death-Syndrome!

Ugh...Loki didn't even get to say goodbye, because he's in prison. Supposedly for killing the people who poisoned her. Ugh. Way to twist the knife, Oda. Loki did nothing wrong.

14 years ago, Shanks goes missing while on a mission, it seems. This is a bit before Shanks stole the Gum-Gum Fruit, supposedly. Shanks stole the Gum-Gum Fruit from Who's Who's ship 13 years ago. So, we still have 1 year to go before Shanks actually gets his hands on the Gum-Gum Fruit. So...hmm...what could the mission that Shanks went AWOL on be?

Harald jumps at the chance to become a full God's Knight. And meets Imu. And gets a upgrade to his Contract. He's in the Depths, now! The Gorosei say some interesting things here. How the power is "chilling" and how he's beyond the power of any "wild monster". I have to wonder what the original Japanese says here, because I feel like Oda's got a little wordplay going on here.

With this, we've now seen 2 out of the 3 Contract Marks. We still haven't seen the highest Abyssal Contract Mark that the Gorosei supposedly have. I never thought I'd say this but...we gotta see the Gorosei shirtless, soon! And I'm not sure what Sommers' tattoo is, or if it's even related to all this.

We find out where that Abyss Mark in the castle came from. Turns out it's just carved in there. So, that's probably not the same thing as the Gorosei's Abyssal Mark.

But, Imu orders Harald to turn the Giants into a massive army for the Government. But, Harald is still trying to fight back, at least a bit. This seems to imply that Imu can only possess people who have formed either Depths or Abyssal Contracts with them. Not Shallows. So, I guess Gunko got a upgrade, at some point, even though she hasn't aged for DECADES. So...I have to wonder if Gunko got the Immortality Surgery, instead. Or something else is going on with Gunko.

Next time...Harald DIES! Lot of that going around in this flashback, lately. *SIGH* I'll miss you, Rocks and Ida!

 

[vikas]

Why did ida die

 

[NikaInParis]

One Piece good guys really operate on a level of brainlessness we can hardly fathom.

 

[moreha9685]

One Piece good guys really operate on a level of brainlessness we can hardly fathom.

It makes even the MCU look smart by comparison.

 

[D. Plant]

The translation seems to say the deep seal power up is just immortality, no indication of power boost like the spoiler stated.

 

[Ricassian]

Hmm, now I am questioning the 8+5 count for the 13 (or honestly have no idea lol)

Went back and looked through Garling's 5(!!!) different intro boxes (wtf lol) and 4 of the 5 times he has a different position in the WG

- 38-40 years ago, Knight of God (in Kuma and Rocks' flashbacks)

** Note that you can see 4 of the 5 Known Gorosei here and we know Saturn has been around for hundreds of years. Keep this thought for later***


- 24 years ago, Commander/Captain of Knights of God (called Dancho in Japanese). Shamrock currently has this position.

- Present Day, Supreme Commander (called Saiko Shireikan in Japanese) of the Knights of God

- Present day, Gorosei

So when you frame it like this, the count starts to get weird.

- We know at least 40 years ago, the current Gorosei exist. So thats 5, right?
- Well, 38 years ago, Garling still neither has the Commander nor Supreme Commander titles. There are 7 revealed Knights in God Valley. But if these positions exist, then it would imply at least 9 God Knights exist.
- 24 years ago, he's promoted as commander and his son becomes a Knight presumably (or at least is one by 15 years ago). This would assume the Commander or Supreme Commander were removed and he went up the ladder. His open Knight position then was taken by Shamrock.
- 14 years ago, Shanks, then Harald are offered a knight position. To this point I would assume Garling was promoted again to Supreme Commander and his son Commander, however we dont have any confirmation on this. Harald obviously dies, leaving a vacant position.
- Now to present day, both Gunko and Killingham are Knights. Saturn was killed, and Garling is promoted a 3rd time, but we arent sure if he left his commander seat vacant. Worse yet, they offer a Knight Position to Loki lol.


So now just looking at this, unless Oda is killing off character designs he hasn't introduced, the count doesnt work?

- 5 Gorosei (including Garling)
- Shamrock
- Sommers
- Killingham
- Gunko
- Plus the 5 other Knight designs in God Valley.

Thats 14 total....with Loki being offered a position.

Now yes, 1 of the 5 could be dead. Maffey oddly enough looks like she could be Killingham's mother or something, even though their family names are different. But weirder is her the random power she shows. Does she have Kizaru's DF at this time lol?

She shoots a beam at Dragon and the only other things that can do this are Pacifista which literally copy Kizaru's logia powers

Then we have the fact that Loki is offered another open position.

So essentially we have 2 options:

- The 13 include the Gorosei, Maffey died and either the Commander or Supreme Commander didnt exist before Garling. But it makes it weird that Shamrock offered Loki a vacant position then. Yes, Saturn dies, but then this would mean at least 2 of the 5 Knight designs in GV are dead.

- The 13 dont include the Gorosei because every God Knight is still alive and the count goes to at least 14. This makes it easier but sort of contradicts the 13 statements because the Gorosei seem to just have elevated powers to Knights.


Now I dont know anymore lol

Yeah then in that way the count works

- 38 years ago had 5 Gorosei + 7 Knights. Maybe an 8th existed but it doesnt matter, Oda just doesnt give us a 13th member at that point.
- 24 years ago he has the first Commander title and Shamrock joins the Knights. That would make 13 right there without any of the 7 on GV dying
- 14 years ago, Harald becomes a knight, which DOES imply someone dies or is removed from the GV group. Then Harald dies, leaving Gunko or Killingham to join
- Present day, Saturn dies, Garling moves from Commander to Supreme Commander to Gorosei, but thats only 1 position left for Killingham or Gunko


If we assume they were lying to Loki, then maybe only Maffey died since it seems like she had the Pika Pika no Mi. If they werent, then a 2nd Knight died by that point lol.

Either way, Oda will have to show us all designs eventually, somethings gotta give

Man that's something I'm trying to wrap my mind around without success. Overall, you made the same exact reasoning I made.

The numerical ratio of 5 Officers (Elder Stars) and only 7/8 Operatives (Knights of God) is very atypical for One Piece standards. Usually the Operative are at least twice the number of Officers. For example the Donquixote Family had 4 Elite Officers (comparable to Elder Stars) and 11 Officers (comparable to Knights of God), the Beast Pirates had 3 Calamities (comparable to Elder Stars) and the Flying 6 (comparable to Knights of God). A similar pattern is present in Big Mom's crew...
A ratio of 5 Elder Stars, 13/14 Knights of God would make more sense imo than 5 Elder Stars and 7/8 Knights of God.

Another thing is that the military role of Supreme Commander makes more sense in a larger structure, for example:
• 1 Supreme Commander
• 1 Commander
• 11/12 Knights
or even better:
• 1 Supreme Commander
• 3 Commanders
• 9 Knights (3 for each Commander to control)

What's the purpose of a Supreme Commander in a hierarchy of 7/8 individuals included the Supreme Commander himself?
I get that it could be more of a honorific role made just for Garling's incredible career, since 1 Elder Star had to go before he could make more career advancements, but still I find that title more fitting in a setting of 13 Knights instead of 8...

 

[Sbinotto]

Good setup chapter, Loki greatness next chapter


Ida

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

Beautiful chapter. As I mentioned in the spoiler thread (which I can’t quote now since it’s closed), I figured the summary wouldn’t be very helpful this week, the chapter relies heavily on its artwork to convey emotion. Ida is best mom.

Also, peak next chapter including young Shanks feats (which means automatic Mihawk upscale, which means Buggy upscale )

R.I.P Estrid

Ida had it coming