Break Week One Piece - Chapter 970: Oden vs Kaido [BREAK WEEK]
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Well it seems like they have almost the same opinion as the ones which I write above, everyone felt by the chapter underwhelmed, not much what they expect to seen, points which I make before aswell. And we should not forget, yes One piece life up his name by story build/character building but also the half if not even more of the one peice fandom cares about powerlvl/fights/hype aswell, for same reason one piece 957 trend as number one around the world in twitter which was insane. Hype, fighting and other stuffs are very important for a balanced successful great manga as One piece, but recently the manga feels more and more that battles don´t gonna get the same love as in the past and to ignore that would be a big mistake. After all the most successful year of One piece was a arc with a war/great story and fighting scenes. So ignore the feeling of these fans is false, ostracize them from One piece because they love the other genre of the one piece manga(fights/hype) is even more false. I mean if you have the right as someone who love more about the story without caring much about fights, then fans who want more fights has also the same rights.
Here other youtuber who had different feeling about the chapter, rogerbase,joyboy and Sawyer. Only tekking is still left:
Rogersbase:
https://twitter.com/RogersBase/status/1223993168086962178
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVxJ2MeXNaE
Joyboy:
https://twitter.com/JoyBoyTheories/status/1224021772313427968
Sawyer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMmJr_qi6c
Tekking review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRye8ffyAZM&feature=emb_title
He had a similar though.
Here other youtuber who had different feeling about the chapter, rogerbase,joyboy and Sawyer. Only tekking is still left:
Rogersbase:
https://twitter.com/RogersBase/status/1223993168086962178
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVxJ2MeXNaE
Joyboy:
https://twitter.com/JoyBoyTheories/status/1224021772313427968
Sawyer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMmJr_qi6c
Tekking review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRye8ffyAZM&feature=emb_title
He had a similar though.
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Kaido still remains a massive threat, this chapter takes away nothing from his current strength. I don't get why people are downplaying him. Even the Marines recognize how strong both him and BM are
I'm still at a loss for words as to who the traitor is. Shinobu seems like a red herring. Is it one of the Akazaya 9?
We can obviously rule out Kinemon, Kawamatsu, and Ashura Doji. Plus, Inu/Neko/Raizo because they all suffered at the hands of the traitor. That leaves Kiku, Denjiro and Kanjuro. I think Denjiro is clearly Kyoshiro, adopting a fake identity like Ashura/Shutenmaru, because a Samurai subordinate as strong as Kyoshiro doesn't appear out of nowhere without a Top Tier leader. He's the equivalent of a Yonko Commander without a Yonko level leader? Bullshit. Plus he's a money changer which is a dead giveaway. However, he is clearly Oden-allied and on Hiyori's side. When Orochi goes to Onigashima he's in charge of overseeing the Samurai prisoners, and he'll let them all free. It makes no sense as to why he'd be a traitor 20 years ago. Plus Denjiro would have no idea what the time travel crew is doing.
That leaves Kiku and Kanjuro. Both time travellers. I can't rule these two out. I'm afraid they'd both be super fucking random though.
We can obviously rule out Kinemon, Kawamatsu, and Ashura Doji. Plus, Inu/Neko/Raizo because they all suffered at the hands of the traitor. That leaves Kiku, Denjiro and Kanjuro. I think Denjiro is clearly Kyoshiro, adopting a fake identity like Ashura/Shutenmaru, because a Samurai subordinate as strong as Kyoshiro doesn't appear out of nowhere without a Top Tier leader. He's the equivalent of a Yonko Commander without a Yonko level leader? Bullshit. Plus he's a money changer which is a dead giveaway. However, he is clearly Oden-allied and on Hiyori's side. When Orochi goes to Onigashima he's in charge of overseeing the Samurai prisoners, and he'll let them all free. It makes no sense as to why he'd be a traitor 20 years ago. Plus Denjiro would have no idea what the time travel crew is doing.
That leaves Kiku and Kanjuro. Both time travellers. I can't rule these two out. I'm afraid they'd both be super fucking random though.
The last two chapters may be the worst 2 chapters of post timeskip One Piece, will wait for 1 more chapter to see the detailed reason Oden decided to act a clown for 5 years against forces weaker than his.
Seems like Oda is falling back into his bad habit of cheap shock value writing, he wants to shock readers by making Oden dance around naked begging for money, because it's so out of character, but at the expense of logic.
As for the fight, this chapter offered absolutely nothing. No exceptional panels, no choreography, even ignoring the lack of logic, this chapter objectively is an embarrassment to real showdowns, to be called a fight.
Seems like Oda is falling back into his bad habit of cheap shock value writing, he wants to shock readers by making Oden dance around naked begging for money, because it's so out of character, but at the expense of logic.
As for the fight, this chapter offered absolutely nothing. No exceptional panels, no choreography, even ignoring the lack of logic, this chapter objectively is an embarrassment to real showdowns, to be called a fight.
if you're a boomer than OP shouldn't appeal to you. a shounen manga is for kids/teenagers. the fact that the younger demographic doesn't like how things are going means YES it is Oda's fault.
but hey better blame everyone else instead of admitting Oda is changing. remember Enies Lobby? Water 7? the good days where no fight was off paneled and no hype was killed? yea but sure it's just millenials am i right
but hey better blame everyone else instead of admitting Oda is changing. remember Enies Lobby? Water 7? the good days where no fight was off paneled and no hype was killed? yea but sure it's just millenials am i right
So finally got around to reading the chapter and I'm kind of mixed to be honest. There were some good things and some bad stuff. I'll get the bad out of the way first, but I, like most others here, don't think this battle got the fleshing out that it deserved. I was expecting the whole chapter to be the fight with the climax of Oden using Emna to harm Kaido. Then it leading to a cliffhanger for next chapter showing Kaido recovering a getting the upper hand. So none of that happened, lol. The scar felt like just a quick footnote with no build up really. I know Oda probably had a time frame for his work, but this part needed more time spent on it.
The other big problem I had with the chapter is the people of Wano themselves. Man, no wonder Oden wanted to leave so badly. His citizens are a bunch a judgmental paper-weights that have absolutely no foresight in life. Oden might be naive and obviously has a weakness that Orochi exploited, but his people should have known what's up anyway. Orochi didn't treat them with any kindness. Heck he probably killed a lot of people in his factories. Didn't ever occur to the Wano folks that they might need to either flee or rebel? And if they were waiting for Oden to be their savior and he failed them, why didn't they... oh I don't know, FIND SOMEONE ELSE MAYBE??!!! Like hello there were plenty strong samurai in your country; ya should had tried to take on Orochi and Kaido while you had the chance. They even had an opportunity after Moriah attacked, I mean if the whole kingdom revolted Orochi and Kaido would have been at a serious disadvantage at that point.
Frustration aside, I'm really, really hoping Oda is using this as a lesson about how there's a weakness in Asian culture were social conformity leads to problems. And that's why the border must be opened to exchange ideas and lessen those problems. But until then, the people of Wano... are stupid.
Well enough of the rants now the positives. This chapter made Kaido a good villain in my view. There is a common trope were the big bad guy always underestimates the good guy and is ultimately defeated because of it. Kaido on the other hand knew about Oden's strength, had a spy planted, and exploited Oden's weakness to the fullest. And rather then sit back and enjoy Oden's dancing act for those five years, Kaido was getting prepared for what he knew was an inevitable clash. So props to Kaido; he might be a drunken brute, be he's a clever drunken brute.
Shinobu was the other highlight. She really risked her life to help, and it was touching that Oden returned the favor by rescuing her from being his conspirator. It must have really hurt for Shinobu to lose Oden after that. So much so I think she got depress and let herself go in the years since. I'm kind of expecting her to be one of the ones who helps Oden in getting the other scabbards out of prison to rescue Momo and company in the next chapter.
So in closing, ch. 970 would have benefited more if it was split between two chapters. I don't think important sequences like this should be left to the anime to fill in. I'm sure the next chapter will be heart-wrenching, but the build up for it could have been so much better. Anyway that's just my two cents. :coffee:
The other big problem I had with the chapter is the people of Wano themselves. Man, no wonder Oden wanted to leave so badly. His citizens are a bunch a judgmental paper-weights that have absolutely no foresight in life. Oden might be naive and obviously has a weakness that Orochi exploited, but his people should have known what's up anyway. Orochi didn't treat them with any kindness. Heck he probably killed a lot of people in his factories. Didn't ever occur to the Wano folks that they might need to either flee or rebel? And if they were waiting for Oden to be their savior and he failed them, why didn't they... oh I don't know, FIND SOMEONE ELSE MAYBE??!!! Like hello there were plenty strong samurai in your country; ya should had tried to take on Orochi and Kaido while you had the chance. They even had an opportunity after Moriah attacked, I mean if the whole kingdom revolted Orochi and Kaido would have been at a serious disadvantage at that point.
Frustration aside, I'm really, really hoping Oda is using this as a lesson about how there's a weakness in Asian culture were social conformity leads to problems. And that's why the border must be opened to exchange ideas and lessen those problems. But until then, the people of Wano... are stupid.
Well enough of the rants now the positives. This chapter made Kaido a good villain in my view. There is a common trope were the big bad guy always underestimates the good guy and is ultimately defeated because of it. Kaido on the other hand knew about Oden's strength, had a spy planted, and exploited Oden's weakness to the fullest. And rather then sit back and enjoy Oden's dancing act for those five years, Kaido was getting prepared for what he knew was an inevitable clash. So props to Kaido; he might be a drunken brute, be he's a clever drunken brute.
Shinobu was the other highlight. She really risked her life to help, and it was touching that Oden returned the favor by rescuing her from being his conspirator. It must have really hurt for Shinobu to lose Oden after that. So much so I think she got depress and let herself go in the years since. I'm kind of expecting her to be one of the ones who helps Oden in getting the other scabbards out of prison to rescue Momo and company in the next chapter.
So in closing, ch. 970 would have benefited more if it was split between two chapters. I don't think important sequences like this should be left to the anime to fill in. I'm sure the next chapter will be heart-wrenching, but the build up for it could have been so much better. Anyway that's just my two cents. :coffee:
M
I strongly disagree. I started OP in 2006 when I was 13/14. I still think Oda is doing the correct thing.
Oda's biggest problem is shrouding people's power in mystery. But it was bound to happen as we moved towards the end, but not the end itself.
Off-paneling does tend to be difficult to accept. But that is not why people hate this chapter, people hate it because it shattered their expectations of Kaido.
Oda's biggest problem is shrouding people's power in mystery. But it was bound to happen as we moved towards the end, but not the end itself.
Off-paneling does tend to be difficult to accept. But that is not why people hate this chapter, people hate it because it shattered their expectations of Kaido.
But the key fights at least get more panels just then only two and far better choreography, adding the fact that the showdown who was insane hyped in the last chapter wasn´t feel with emotions and other things, no real build up and it feel kinda thrown over the pages without much context. A comment with I totally agree:
The point of all the build up was to show how Oden cut of Kaido with Enma and other sword. Yet the climax about these scenes wasn´t really good. Kaido skin was shown as invincible where even Gear4 Luffy wasn´t enough to even scratch him. But with this chapter we never had the feeling, in his first attack with regular CoA swords Oden just easily cut him out.
The whole build up fail to explain to at least shown how Oden use advanced CoA to hurt Kaido(important for later when Luffy taking on Kaido again to hurt him). It would be far better to show one-two moves of Oden who use casuall swing CoA attacks which doesn´t effect on Kaido incredible skin, then he using advanced CoA in combination of Enma and cut in out, that would be far better then what Oda show in this chapter, Kaido who falling in the ground and Oden who almost taking him down. Then in the next chapter he could continue and let Kaido win in the end, it would build up the whole fight far better.
At this point people saying Oda can´t spend to much on good drawn battles because of his time frame for his work, but should I really remember here the chapters of Whole Cake island or in Udon where fodders get more screentime in battles then overall a major key character as Oden? People using this excuse to protect Oda decision for offscreen battles, yet forget that he throwing his time with showing panels of fodder getting defeated again and again(don´t want even start to talk about the running scenes in dressrosa).
If Oden vs Kaido would be half as good as Blackbeard vs Ace, the community would be satisfied with it. A fucking boar even get more screentime then Kaido vs Oden, it is kinda sad at this point. And before coming out with a argument as "Oda want to save Kaido moveset for later", can´t he just show one-three of hundret attacks in the most important key fights in this arc? I mean he can even created more attacks for later, Katakuri show that a villian can have insane amount attacks in a battle, same goes for Doflamingo where we see many moves already against Law before Luffy even could battle him. I don´t see any reason to hold Kaido attacks/power, Oda show that he could handle this far better(Law vs Doflamingo+Fujitora and later 1on1).
People almost take all the offscreen fights as Jack vs Dukes,Sanji vs Pageone and many others for some reason and that is okay, but a fight as Oden vs Kaido who is a major key factor for later of the arc, a fight which THE OWN MANGAKA hype up in a whole lvl, something like this should be better then what we get with the new chapter...
Oda lost the chance to take the fans on his side after hyping up in the last chapter. Now half of the fanbase have bad opinion about the battle and the other doesn´t really care about battles.
The point of all the build up was to show how Oden cut of Kaido with Enma and other sword. Yet the climax about these scenes wasn´t really good. Kaido skin was shown as invincible where even Gear4 Luffy wasn´t enough to even scratch him. But with this chapter we never had the feeling, in his first attack with regular CoA swords Oden just easily cut him out.
The whole build up fail to explain to at least shown how Oden use advanced CoA to hurt Kaido(important for later when Luffy taking on Kaido again to hurt him). It would be far better to show one-two moves of Oden who use casuall swing CoA attacks which doesn´t effect on Kaido incredible skin, then he using advanced CoA in combination of Enma and cut in out, that would be far better then what Oda show in this chapter, Kaido who falling in the ground and Oden who almost taking him down. Then in the next chapter he could continue and let Kaido win in the end, it would build up the whole fight far better.
At this point people saying Oda can´t spend to much on good drawn battles because of his time frame for his work, but should I really remember here the chapters of Whole Cake island or in Udon where fodders get more screentime in battles then overall a major key character as Oden? People using this excuse to protect Oda decision for offscreen battles, yet forget that he throwing his time with showing panels of fodder getting defeated again and again(don´t want even start to talk about the running scenes in dressrosa).
If Oden vs Kaido would be half as good as Blackbeard vs Ace, the community would be satisfied with it. A fucking boar even get more screentime then Kaido vs Oden, it is kinda sad at this point. And before coming out with a argument as "Oda want to save Kaido moveset for later", can´t he just show one-three of hundret attacks in the most important key fights in this arc? I mean he can even created more attacks for later, Katakuri show that a villian can have insane amount attacks in a battle, same goes for Doflamingo where we see many moves already against Law before Luffy even could battle him. I don´t see any reason to hold Kaido attacks/power, Oda show that he could handle this far better(Law vs Doflamingo+Fujitora and later 1on1).
People almost take all the offscreen fights as Jack vs Dukes,Sanji vs Pageone and many others for some reason and that is okay, but a fight as Oden vs Kaido who is a major key factor for later of the arc, a fight which THE OWN MANGAKA hype up in a whole lvl, something like this should be better then what we get with the new chapter...
Oda lost the chance to take the fans on his side after hyping up in the last chapter. Now half of the fanbase have bad opinion about the battle and the other doesn´t really care about battles.
Then it's a flaw of his. To have such an unadaptable approach with flashbacks. He should be more flexible with what is needed from a flashback, on a case by case basis. This flashback revolved around a battle, unlike any other flashback. I get he wants to avoid the full fight in order to save it for the final battle, but to build up an event to this extent, and give what is almost an afterthought of a chapter leaves much to be desired. I could read this "battle" without images on a wiki page and get nearly the same satisfaction out of it.
He wasn't kidding when he said he is going to be speeding past fights. In this case to the detriment of the manga.
He wasn't kidding when he said he is going to be speeding past fights. In this case to the detriment of the manga.
I pretty much agree with you. I think the thing that sticks out for me is how I compare this to other similar moments in One Piece's past. Particularly Zoro verses Mr. 1 comes to mind. Mr. 1 was basically immune to Zoro slashes being made of steel with moss-head overcoming him in the end. Zoro had to become a man who could cut steel or he was going to lose. It was a great fight with a really great payoff. Likewise Kaido presents the same obstacle with his scales, but instead of presenting it like an obstacle, Oden's just like whatever and slashes him. It might not bother some people, but I just find it weird that's all. I guess the anime will probably tweak that scene to make it work better.
Can see where you guys are coming from. Don't disagree with a lot of it. I think particularly this:
Would have been stronger than what we got this chapter. Would only have taken a page or two- could easily substitute the page of Oden tossing around cannon fodder for example, and would have the big hit be more cathartic. We didn't need another chapter of attacks bouncing off Kaido- we got that in Luffy vs Kaido. But one reminder wouldn't have done any harm.
Also, this
Maybe the biggest flaw Oda has as an author. He very rarely deviates from his formula.
-arrive on island
-meet weird and varied new cast
-a sad tale in the past of this cast, alluded to throughout the arc
-a great setback for Luffy and the Strawhats
-the flashback, where the reader discovers the heart of the conflict of the arc, usually surrounding a deceased character
-the fights, against a background of imminent destruction
-Luffy wins the day
It's a formula that very often works, mind you (W7/EL being his best execution of it), but it can be too predictable and, after this long, now really needs to succeed because we've seen it too many times before. It's also where arcs like Impel Down and Marineford stand out because it's a big deviation.
One place I do disagree with you guys is the assertion that this flashback revolved around the fight with Kaido. That isn't so. You might have felt going into it that it would, but it clearly hasn't been the case. This flashback has been about the life of Oden- the rise of Orochi being the subplot. And in that life, Oden wounding Kaido is less important than him becoming daimyo of Kuri with the Scabbards, him going rogue and becoming a pirate with Whitebeard and Roger, and the upcoming circumstances of his death.
Would have been stronger than what we got this chapter. Would only have taken a page or two- could easily substitute the page of Oden tossing around cannon fodder for example, and would have the big hit be more cathartic. We didn't need another chapter of attacks bouncing off Kaido- we got that in Luffy vs Kaido. But one reminder wouldn't have done any harm.
Also, this
Maybe the biggest flaw Oda has as an author. He very rarely deviates from his formula.
-arrive on island
-meet weird and varied new cast
-a sad tale in the past of this cast, alluded to throughout the arc
-a great setback for Luffy and the Strawhats
-the flashback, where the reader discovers the heart of the conflict of the arc, usually surrounding a deceased character
-the fights, against a background of imminent destruction
-Luffy wins the day
It's a formula that very often works, mind you (W7/EL being his best execution of it), but it can be too predictable and, after this long, now really needs to succeed because we've seen it too many times before. It's also where arcs like Impel Down and Marineford stand out because it's a big deviation.
One place I do disagree with you guys is the assertion that this flashback revolved around the fight with Kaido. That isn't so. You might have felt going into it that it would, but it clearly hasn't been the case. This flashback has been about the life of Oden- the rise of Orochi being the subplot. And in that life, Oden wounding Kaido is less important than him becoming daimyo of Kuri with the Scabbards, him going rogue and becoming a pirate with Whitebeard and Roger, and the upcoming circumstances of his death.
Wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said but it's possible that in this instance, Oda is trying to suggest that Oden never had to use advanced COA to cut Kaidou. He just used overwhelming cutting power + haki. Perhaps using a Two-Sword style 'X' slash multiplies the damage output at the impact of the 'X' more than just one sword slash even.
Maybe Oden and later, Zoro don't necessarily need the advanced COA to bypass a defence. Zoro is learning to be able to cut anything ( 'there is nothing I cannot cut'). Luffy on the other hand is learning to bypass Kaidou's scales to hurt him internally. Oden hurt Kaidou from the outside in, Luffy will do it from the inside out. That's my take on it. Two different approaches to achieve a similar outcome.
But yeah, Oda missed a trick here nonetheless
Maybe Oden and later, Zoro don't necessarily need the advanced COA to bypass a defence. Zoro is learning to be able to cut anything ( 'there is nothing I cannot cut'). Luffy on the other hand is learning to bypass Kaidou's scales to hurt him internally. Oden hurt Kaidou from the outside in, Luffy will do it from the inside out. That's my take on it. Two different approaches to achieve a similar outcome.
But yeah, Oda missed a trick here nonetheless
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