Powers & Abilities Pre-Wano Luffy CoA vs Zoro CoA
- Thread starter BaboonMihawk
- Start date
- Tags zoro sends the rubber band aid to meet ace
If something becomes better in ways other than just increased hardness, than his application of haki is inherently better than those who only increase hardness
And as for Vergo I wasn’t sure if the coloration on his bamboo was consistent or not
I agree that there’s no use for haki on the golem and we agree that Pica never showed the ability to harmonize haki with df regardless
And as for Vergo I wasn’t sure if the coloration on his bamboo was consistent or not
I agree that there’s no use for haki on the golem and we agree that Pica never showed the ability to harmonize haki with df regardless
Last edited:
I’d have to reread to be sure
Iirc his bamboo was hardened but it also expands
That should be attributed to both the strength required to make bamboo blow up like that as well as the haki proficiency required to make the bamboo withstand that ballooning effect
But no I don’t think Vergo is the only one capable of that
Iirc his bamboo was hardened but it also expands
That should be attributed to both the strength required to make bamboo blow up like that as well as the haki proficiency required to make the bamboo withstand that ballooning effect
But no I don’t think Vergo is the only one capable of that
G4 increases his defence to both blunt as well as cutting attacks. Besides, Doffy's athlete thread is a blunt kick followed by strings, not a piercing attack. Doffy's kick bounces off.
How will Luffy's hardening magically get better just by blowing air in his muscles, please explain? It makes negative amounts of sense, haki comes from the spirit, not from the muscles.
I will prove to you that Luffy's hardening does not get better in G4.
1. Base Luffy, using hardening, clashes with Katakuri's Block Mochi fist and hurts his hand, showing Kata's superiority:
2. Luffy, later on, goes G4 and clashes fists with Kata's block mochi and hurts his hand again:
So you see, Luffy's hardening does not get better by simply blowing air in his muscles. G4's superior defence is due to the combination of his hardening and his rubber properties, as Doffy explains.
We have seen similar examples such as the above where Kata's block mochi combines hardening and his mochi, boosting his hardness.
And also Jinbei's shark skin armament that he used to block Cognac.
How will Luffy's hardening magically get better just by blowing air in his muscles, please explain? It makes negative amounts of sense, haki comes from the spirit, not from the muscles.
I will prove to you that Luffy's hardening does not get better in G4.
1. Base Luffy, using hardening, clashes with Katakuri's Block Mochi fist and hurts his hand, showing Kata's superiority:
2. Luffy, later on, goes G4 and clashes fists with Kata's block mochi and hurts his hand again:
So you see, Luffy's hardening does not get better by simply blowing air in his muscles. G4's superior defence is due to the combination of his hardening and his rubber properties, as Doffy explains.
We have seen similar examples such as the above where Kata's block mochi combines hardening and his mochi, boosting his hardness.
And also Jinbei's shark skin armament that he used to block Cognac.
and no it has been stated that luffy gains his increeased durability in G4 due to his OVERUSE of haki
hence the reason why he cannot use haki for 10 minutes afterward.
if he was simply using the same haki as in base why does g4 have the drawback of SPECIFICALLY depleting his haki? the drawback of g4 makes 0 sense if luffy has the same haki as in base like youre claiming
the overuse of haki increases the potency of it.
i honestly dont know why you brought up these panels. they don't prove your point.
katas haki was stronger than both base luffy and g4 luffys overuse. so why would he not say "ouch" to them in both forms?
i never stated that g4 haki was stronger than katas.
Last edited:
You constantly keep attributing it to Haki while it was DF which got better thanks to Haki.
It is a new gear, not new Haki. Gears come from DF, not from Haki, this one is just possible thanks to Haki.
How comes you mix up the two?
It comes from logic that the guy who clashes against metal all the time and isnt allowed to have nicks on weapons has better Haki than the guy who is facing fists and has naturally good tolerance to blunt damage, the same guy who was bitten through by a weak combatant who has no haki at all. Also, from the fact that in Zoro's hands swords can become Kokutos while in Oden's they couldnt.
It is a new gear, not new Haki. Gears come from DF, not from Haki, this one is just possible thanks to Haki.
How comes you mix up the two?
It comes from logic that the guy who clashes against metal all the time and isnt allowed to have nicks on weapons has better Haki than the guy who is facing fists and has naturally good tolerance to blunt damage, the same guy who was bitten through by a weak combatant who has no haki at all. Also, from the fact that in Zoro's hands swords can become Kokutos while in Oden's they couldnt.
No, they dont, even without Haki and Luffy has proven it against Sengoku when he used Gomu Gomu no Fuusen(Baloon).
He bounced off Sengoku, he bounced off Doffy. Doffy's attack dont pierce him because he is bouncing them off.
Haki doesnt have the capability of improving and degrading, that's a fabrication of the fandom.
He bounced off Sengoku, he bounced off Doffy. Doffy's attack dont pierce him because he is bouncing them off.
Haki doesnt have the capability of improving and degrading, that's a fabrication of the fandom.
Zoro being a swordsman and Luffy not being one isnt a excuse to put Zoro's CoA hardening as stronger. Katakuri's hardening is still better than Zoro's.
Why do you guys continue to dick ride the "Hody bit through.." argument when Luffy has tanked more powerful piercing attacks with his hardening afterwards? Stop bringing it up.
Him being able to forge a black blade doesnt make his Haki stronger. At the end of it all, even if he made a black blade in this arc his Haki is still weaker than that of WB and Roger who couldnt do the same to their weapons lmao. And will be still not above Luffy when we see him fuck up Kaido with his bare hands.
Why do you guys continue to dick ride the "Hody bit through.." argument when Luffy has tanked more powerful piercing attacks with his hardening afterwards? Stop bringing it up.
Him being able to forge a black blade doesnt make his Haki stronger. At the end of it all, even if he made a black blade in this arc his Haki is still weaker than that of WB and Roger who couldnt do the same to their weapons lmao. And will be still not above Luffy when we see him fuck up Kaido with his bare hands.
No, Doffy didnt use a cutting/piercing attack in that instance, it was just a kick.
I am not talking about Haki improvement in that way.
I am talking about Haki improving and degrading at will by shifting through gears. Haki is not capable of that.
No, Katakuri's Hardening isnt better than Zoro's. You just pulled that out of nowhere because he had better than Luffy's.
Should we say that Hody Jones had better Haki than Zoro too because he broke Luffy's haki? It is ridiculous.
Because Hody DID bite through it, it is a manga fact which wont disappear.
If he actually had good Hardening he would have stopped Hody like Vergo stopped Tashigi, by taking no damage whatsoever.
Oh really? The 3rd only character in all of history to achieve Kokuto doesnt have better haki than others? Not even you believe that, lol.
Who says that his Haki is weaker than WB and Roger's? Oda or you? lmao.
He will not be above Luffy because he was never under him. We will see who will fuck up who, lol.
I am not talking about Haki improvement in that way.
I am talking about Haki improving and degrading at will by shifting through gears. Haki is not capable of that.
No, Katakuri's Hardening isnt better than Zoro's. You just pulled that out of nowhere because he had better than Luffy's.
Should we say that Hody Jones had better Haki than Zoro too because he broke Luffy's haki? It is ridiculous.
Because Hody DID bite through it, it is a manga fact which wont disappear.
If he actually had good Hardening he would have stopped Hody like Vergo stopped Tashigi, by taking no damage whatsoever.
Oh really? The 3rd only character in all of history to achieve Kokuto doesnt have better haki than others? Not even you believe that, lol.
Who says that his Haki is weaker than WB and Roger's? Oda or you? lmao.
He will not be above Luffy because he was never under him. We will see who will fuck up who, lol.
What hardening feats have Zoro shown that succeeds Katakuri's? He hasnt even got any that puts his above Luffy's in strength.
1. Hody doesnt have Haki. Thats all that's really needed to be said about this part...
2. Hody would have bit through Zoro's as well. Gotta keep this mind, Zoro has not ONCE used his hardening to augament nothing but his swords. Swords of which are already of a strong grade and dont easily break. Not getting any knicks on his blade cutting stone DOES NOT make his Haki stronger than Luffy's or Katakuri's.
You know what else is a manga fact? Every other attack Luffy's hardening minimized the damage of/tanked since then. His actual CoA hardening strength feats. That Zoro does not have? Going by FEATS Luffy's CoA is not weaker than his. Again. what has Zoro's CoA actually demonstrated strength against?
Luffy's hardening was holding up against Doflamingo's awakening spears and Cracker's sword attacks in the biscuit soldier, all coated in hardening... and all stronger than Hody's bite lol. As a matter of fact, Luffy's haki is so strong he can maintain an entire form with it. Compressing his muscles and maintaining a rubbery, hard elasticity body with it for 30 minutes+. Which is literally better than anything Zoro has done.
Fishmen bite force is not something to fuck with regardless and would have probably bit through Vergo's too lol. Unless you got feats from Vergo that would suggest otherwise?
No i dont believe that. Because of feats. Mihawk has a Black Blade, Ryuma had one and Zoro is about to get one. All lack feats showing Haki strength on the level that Roger and WB displayed. Not even sure if they ever will lol.
The Black Blade = "Strongest haki above all" or whatever nonesense you boys cook up is all speculation. Its possible? Could be. Cant actually prove none of that with the manga though.
Um feats lmao?
He was never above either. Which was the entire point.
1. Hody doesnt have Haki. Thats all that's really needed to be said about this part...
2. Hody would have bit through Zoro's as well. Gotta keep this mind, Zoro has not ONCE used his hardening to augament nothing but his swords. Swords of which are already of a strong grade and dont easily break. Not getting any knicks on his blade cutting stone DOES NOT make his Haki stronger than Luffy's or Katakuri's.
You know what else is a manga fact? Every other attack Luffy's hardening minimized the damage of/tanked since then. His actual CoA hardening strength feats. That Zoro does not have? Going by FEATS Luffy's CoA is not weaker than his. Again. what has Zoro's CoA actually demonstrated strength against?
Luffy's hardening was holding up against Doflamingo's awakening spears and Cracker's sword attacks in the biscuit soldier, all coated in hardening... and all stronger than Hody's bite lol. As a matter of fact, Luffy's haki is so strong he can maintain an entire form with it. Compressing his muscles and maintaining a rubbery, hard elasticity body with it for 30 minutes+. Which is literally better than anything Zoro has done.
Fishmen bite force is not something to fuck with regardless and would have probably bit through Vergo's too lol. Unless you got feats from Vergo that would suggest otherwise?
No i dont believe that. Because of feats. Mihawk has a Black Blade, Ryuma had one and Zoro is about to get one. All lack feats showing Haki strength on the level that Roger and WB displayed. Not even sure if they ever will lol.
The Black Blade = "Strongest haki above all" or whatever nonesense you boys cook up is all speculation. Its possible? Could be. Cant actually prove none of that with the manga though.
Um feats lmao?
He was never above either. Which was the entire point.
How is that an argument that isn’t applicable to Luffy? Luffy was able to use CoA in a way that Zoro wasn’t as well.
It’s not that hard to compare it, especially when the one without the devil fruit uses it in an extremely simply way. Coat the blade. That’s it.
Luffy’s integration of CoA in order to actually create and maintain Gear 4 far surpasses Zoro in any CoA technical/skill achievement. It’s not close. Luffy’s CoA is, has, and always will be stronger than Zoro’s, in every conceivable way, first and foremost because it absolutely has to be.
It’s not that hard to compare it, especially when the one without the devil fruit uses it in an extremely simply way. Coat the blade. That’s it.
Luffy’s integration of CoA in order to actually create and maintain Gear 4 far surpasses Zoro in any CoA technical/skill achievement. It’s not close. Luffy’s CoA is, has, and always will be stronger than Zoro’s, in every conceivable way, first and foremost because it absolutely has to be.
no athletes "THREAD" is a kicking technique that also uses his strings to cut.
and it is a fact that people can control the amount of haki they use at a given time. i already showed the panel but LAW even states that a person (luffy in this case) can overuse thier haki.
it's honestly laughable that you think that zoro's arnament haki is better than katakuri's when he has shown NOTHING on katakuris haki level.
and no, zoro does not have a black blade yet...thats something he may get in the future but right now he doesn't have it.
we are talking about luffy and zoros CURRENT power. enma is not a black blade.
youre the one whos pulling stuff outa nowhere.
yea and hody bit through luffy because hes weak to piercing attacks unlike other character. which is why him deflecting every single one of doffys cutting attacks no problem shows luffys mastery of haki way greater than zoro.
and it is a fact that people can control the amount of haki they use at a given time. i already showed the panel but LAW even states that a person (luffy in this case) can overuse thier haki.
it's honestly laughable that you think that zoro's arnament haki is better than katakuri's when he has shown NOTHING on katakuris haki level.
and no, zoro does not have a black blade yet...thats something he may get in the future but right now he doesn't have it.
we are talking about luffy and zoros CURRENT power. enma is not a black blade.
youre the one whos pulling stuff outa nowhere.
yea and hody bit through luffy because hes weak to piercing attacks unlike other character. which is why him deflecting every single one of doffys cutting attacks no problem shows luffys mastery of haki way greater than zoro.
