Current Events PSA: Zoro getting CoC was always the plan
- Thread starter Den_Den_Mushi
- Start date
Don't see how it ruins Zoro's character given that this man's goal was always to be the king of swordsmen. His predecessor, Ryuma, was called the king, and spoke of a 'warrior soul' that captures the very essence of Zoro's character.
Furthermore when addressing Zoro, Mihawk states that he will await him at the top, using language that portrays himself as a king on his throne:
この世界最強の座にて貴様を待つ
この世界最強の座に - at the top
座 - seat
Mihawk is the current king of swordsmen. Zoro will defeat him and claim Ryuma's title for himself. That's Zoro's character, that of an ordinary man making himself a king. Cry harder if you don't like it, this is the manga you've been reading for 1000 chapters.
Furthermore when addressing Zoro, Mihawk states that he will await him at the top, using language that portrays himself as a king on his throne:
この世界最強の座にて貴様を待つ
この世界最強の座に - at the top
座 - seat
Mihawk is the current king of swordsmen. Zoro will defeat him and claim Ryuma's title for himself. That's Zoro's character, that of an ordinary man making himself a king. Cry harder if you don't like it, this is the manga you've been reading for 1000 chapters.
There is nothing wrong with that and it doesn't take everything away from Zoro, he worked very hard to reach his current level and so on, but it is something we should consider. Zoro has a chance to "win" and become the WSS for those reasons, the other 99.99% would have failed no matter how much they tried.
Zoro should have been the type of character that keeps prevailing against all odds just because he wants to keep his promise. By sheer will.
If Oda decides to represent this will as CoC and gives to everybody in the world the potential to unlock it, then I'll be fine with Oda's writing and with Zoro's character. Until then, i won't see Zoro in the same way.
If it doesn't bother any of you it's completely fine but it doesn't disappear.
Never thought of this like that. Good perspective. One Piece is becoming a lot like EOS naruto.
I think Oda shouldn't have made COC an inborn thing and should have made it something people with immensely strong ambition and convictions can unlock through difficult life experiences and tough battles.
I think Oda shouldn't have made COC an inborn thing and should have made it something people with immensely strong ambition and convictions can unlock through difficult life experiences and tough battles.
MC jesus is expected to be a thing in a Shounen.
This is likely too late to retcon but I think it would have fit Zoro's character more if he simply unlocked COC by sheer force of will or if COC was simply not an inborn thing. Everyone loves a rags to riches story. Thats why everyone loved part 1 Naruto and hated part 2 because it ruined that hardwork concept.
Also want to add that I give zero fucks about Luffy. He's a Gary Stu and I hate him as a character and I actively root against him and have been since Luffy vs Cracker.
This is likely too late to retcon but I think it would have fit Zoro's character more if he simply unlocked COC by sheer force of will or if COC was simply not an inborn thing. Everyone loves a rags to riches story. Thats why everyone loved part 1 Naruto and hated part 2 because it ruined that hardwork concept.
Also want to add that I give zero fucks about Luffy. He's a Gary Stu and I hate him as a character and I actively root against him and have been since Luffy vs Cracker.
This is stupid. It’s like saying that Luffy will only be PK because he’s a CoC user and the son of Dragon.
Might as well complain about natural talent as well; 99.999% of people don’t even have the potential to become the WSS no matter how hard they try. Despite Kuina overshadowing him, Zoro was still talented enough to defeat grown men as a child and invented a new style of swordplay on his own. Robin is a genius who became a scholar at 8. Nami was the second smartest person in the East Blue and has a natural affinity for the weather. Franky put his own ruined body back together and turned himself into a weapon. Doesn’t take away from any of their characters and doesn’t detract from the effort they’ve put in to mastering their craft.
I… think you’ve missed the point where CoC IS will. Hancock is a former slave and a nobody who clawed her way up to the empress seat. Potential means nothing without the effort to realise it. Shanks was a nobody. Whitebeard was a nobody. Anyone can become a king if they have the will to do so. That’s the entire point of CoC. If you think otherwise, you’ve been reading the wrong manga.
Might as well complain about natural talent as well; 99.999% of people don’t even have the potential to become the WSS no matter how hard they try. Despite Kuina overshadowing him, Zoro was still talented enough to defeat grown men as a child and invented a new style of swordplay on his own. Robin is a genius who became a scholar at 8. Nami was the second smartest person in the East Blue and has a natural affinity for the weather. Franky put his own ruined body back together and turned himself into a weapon. Doesn’t take away from any of their characters and doesn’t detract from the effort they’ve put in to mastering their craft.
I… think you’ve missed the point where CoC IS will. Hancock is a former slave and a nobody who clawed her way up to the empress seat. Potential means nothing without the effort to realise it. Shanks was a nobody. Whitebeard was a nobody. Anyone can become a king if they have the will to do so. That’s the entire point of CoC. If you think otherwise, you’ve been reading the wrong manga.
CoC is the haki of the chosen and only the strongest have it, like you said without CoC anyone else would never reach the WSS stage, but isn't that the same for every other title?
Only those with the highest ambition will ever attain their goal, and if like you wanted Zoro didn't have CoC, he wouldn't have the ambition to reach Mihawk.
So do you also have a problem with Luffy having CoC?
Just accept it, the minute we were told CoC is the haki of the chosen and that only the strongest in the world have it, it should have clicked for you that the WSS and those that might reach him will all have it.
And since it looks like taming blade requires CoC then those without it will never have a blackblade.
Only those with the highest ambition will ever attain their goal, and if like you wanted Zoro didn't have CoC, he wouldn't have the ambition to reach Mihawk.
So do you also have a problem with Luffy having CoC?
Just accept it, the minute we were told CoC is the haki of the chosen and that only the strongest in the world have it, it should have clicked for you that the WSS and those that might reach him will all have it.
And since it looks like taming blade requires CoC then those without it will never have a blackblade.
Imagine claiming spitting the sky isn't the highest CoC clash feat when Oda hyped it over and over
Then go on to talk more about Mihawk then say Zoro having adcoc just when he unlocks coc isn't asspull
For you guys Zoro who doesn't know he has CoC, can unlock adcoc easily isn't Asspull
But Luffy and Yamato having adcoc for you guys is a problem
Lol
Imagine writing many things to justify Zoro asspulling adcoc easily even tho he can even use CoC consciously. In one chapter he went from basic coc to adcoc in the same chapter when he still doesn't know he used CoC.
Then go on to talk more about Mihawk then say Zoro having adcoc just when he unlocks coc isn't asspull
For you guys Zoro who doesn't know he has CoC, can unlock adcoc easily isn't Asspull
But Luffy and Yamato having adcoc for you guys is a problem
Lol
Imagine writing many things to justify Zoro asspulling adcoc easily even tho he can even use CoC consciously. In one chapter he went from basic coc to adcoc in the same chapter when he still doesn't know he used CoC.
You do nothing but post headcannon becauae you can't handle manga facts.
Very nice thread Den Den. I only have issue about the first part which might be misread by some people that every Tom, Dick and Harry can get CoC. They cant. Its only reserved for very special people. Yamato is a complete trash character, but she is the daughter of the WSC. Ace was son of the PK. They are special among the very special in OP verse.
That said, I fully agree that Zoro's CoC is not an accident. Oda teased the readers several times about Zoro's CoC. Anybody who thinks Zoro's CoC is an asspull hasn't been following One Piece properly.
Monet couldn't move when she faced Zoro:
Urashima ran away because of Zoro's aura:
The most direct one was in a very recent chapter:
The anime guys also took the liberty of hinting Zoro's CoC whenever they got the opportunity. For example, this moment at Sabaody:
Or this one at Punk Hazard:
That said, I fully agree that Zoro's CoC is not an accident. Oda teased the readers several times about Zoro's CoC. Anybody who thinks Zoro's CoC is an asspull hasn't been following One Piece properly.
Monet couldn't move when she faced Zoro:
Urashima ran away because of Zoro's aura:
The most direct one was in a very recent chapter:
The anime guys also took the liberty of hinting Zoro's CoC whenever they got the opportunity. For example, this moment at Sabaody:
Or this one at Punk Hazard:
Last edited:
Yes, it was obvious. Especially with Rayleigh having it and the new vice captain surpassing the old one. Being common among those who made a name for themselves (Rayleigh) and the seas being full of Conquerors (Chinjao) and a bunch of high tiers having it, it was clear that someone with such monstrous ambition, which was acknowledged by both Kuma and Mihawk and with the goal of becoming stronger than Mihawk, a high top tier, will definitely have it.
1033 has truly caused an outpouring of rage and salt within the community since Oda revealed once and for all that Zoro has Conqueror's Haki, with users on this forum finding various ways to cope with the pain. Among some of the more amusing claims include the following:
1. Zoro getting CoC is an asspull
2. Zoro getting CoC turns One Piece into Naruto because... reasons
3. Oda's handling of CoC is suddenly problematic because 'He HaSn'T ExPlAiNeD aNyThInG'
Leaving this thread as a gentle reminder that Zoro was always going to get CoC and that Zoro immediately unlocking advanced CoC makes perfect sense given what we know of his character.
CoC isn't supposed to be terribly uncommon
Chinjao said it here first. It's not that big a deal in the New World, and simply having CoC doesn't necessarily make one a top tier. I can't believe I'm having to point this out given that literal children can unlock Conqueror's, but here we are.
Of course, having a strong will means you can develop stronger haki in general, but the basic level of CoC in and of itself isn't indicative of how strong an individual character is.
Zoro is a Haki genius
Zoro unlocked regular haki much earlier than Luffy. His fight with Daz Bones awakened his Observation and gave him the Breath of All Things ability, also known as Ryuou or advanced armament.
Zoro unlocked COO alongside CoA despite COO not being his specialty. Jury's still out on whether Ashura itself is advanced CoC or is only used in conjunction with advanced CoC, but it makes sense either way. Zoro's near-death experiences have given him extremely accelerated growth in all three forms of haki, which meshes easily with information we've already been given:
Zoro's handicaps make his fights harder
Zoro has continuously been fighting with handicaps. Pre-timeskip, this was the injury he received from Mihawk, which was explicitly stated to require 2 years to heal.
Post-timeskip, Zoro has been holding back for the most part, only truly giving it his all in the rooftop battle and revealing the upgraded version of his ultimate technique. However, 1033 revealed that Enma has been handicapping Zoro all along, requiring him to release immense amounts of haki to properly use the sword. Unusued to the sword's overwhelming temperament, Zoro has not been able to fight freely and at full capacity the way Oden would have:
Enma is constantly stealing the user's Haki. We've seen what Haki depletion does, with Luffy turning into a useless sack and needing to be lugged around and babysat during G4's downtime. Despite Zoro having fought two yonko and now King with Enma, he's still got Haki left for his second round with Kaido's right hand, even declaring that he will not try to reduce or stabilise his Haki output. This goes back to Zoro being a Haki genius, which makes perfect sense given that Zoro's willpower is second to none.
Haki is not a hard magic system
Like it or not, Haki has always been a very nebulous concept, and it's unlikely that Oda has everything planned out for how it is to be used. However, CoC was hinted to have some use in combat when Shanks used it to crack the Moby Dick. Since Kaido revealed that CoC can in fact be used as a coating, it's safe to say that Oda will need to explain how it differs from CoA in more detail. The point remains, however, that Zoro unlocking and using CoC is a logically consistent powerup and if readers had complaints over the offensive use of CoC, they should really have complained when it was used by Luffy and Yamatrash first.
It was never really explained how Whitebeard and Shanks split the sky, or how Big Meme and Kaido replicated that feat many chapters later. However Luffy vs Kaido, and Whitebeard's comments to Shanks about his duels with Mihawk still ringing in his ears imply that CoC greatly enhances the user's destructive capabilities. Now we know that CoC was involved, both on the Moby Dick and almost certainly in the Mihawk/Shanks duels. Thus, advanced CoC is not, in fact, an asspull.
I hope I've sufficiently made my case for why ch. 1033 was perfectly consistent with previous story events and exposition surrounding Haki as a power system.
TLDR; Zoro has CoC. This makes sense. Cope harder.
1. Zoro getting CoC is an asspull
2. Zoro getting CoC turns One Piece into Naruto because... reasons
3. Oda's handling of CoC is suddenly problematic because 'He HaSn'T ExPlAiNeD aNyThInG'
Leaving this thread as a gentle reminder that Zoro was always going to get CoC and that Zoro immediately unlocking advanced CoC makes perfect sense given what we know of his character.
CoC isn't supposed to be terribly uncommon
Of course, having a strong will means you can develop stronger haki in general, but the basic level of CoC in and of itself isn't indicative of how strong an individual character is.
Zoro is a Haki genius
Zoro unlocked regular haki much earlier than Luffy. His fight with Daz Bones awakened his Observation and gave him the Breath of All Things ability, also known as Ryuou or advanced armament.
Zoro's handicaps make his fights harder
Zoro has continuously been fighting with handicaps. Pre-timeskip, this was the injury he received from Mihawk, which was explicitly stated to require 2 years to heal.
Post-timeskip, Zoro has been holding back for the most part, only truly giving it his all in the rooftop battle and revealing the upgraded version of his ultimate technique. However, 1033 revealed that Enma has been handicapping Zoro all along, requiring him to release immense amounts of haki to properly use the sword. Unusued to the sword's overwhelming temperament, Zoro has not been able to fight freely and at full capacity the way Oden would have:
Enma is constantly stealing the user's Haki. We've seen what Haki depletion does, with Luffy turning into a useless sack and needing to be lugged around and babysat during G4's downtime. Despite Zoro having fought two yonko and now King with Enma, he's still got Haki left for his second round with Kaido's right hand, even declaring that he will not try to reduce or stabilise his Haki output. This goes back to Zoro being a Haki genius, which makes perfect sense given that Zoro's willpower is second to none.
Haki is not a hard magic system
Like it or not, Haki has always been a very nebulous concept, and it's unlikely that Oda has everything planned out for how it is to be used. However, CoC was hinted to have some use in combat when Shanks used it to crack the Moby Dick. Since Kaido revealed that CoC can in fact be used as a coating, it's safe to say that Oda will need to explain how it differs from CoA in more detail. The point remains, however, that Zoro unlocking and using CoC is a logically consistent powerup and if readers had complaints over the offensive use of CoC, they should really have complained when it was used by Luffy and Yamatrash first.
It was never really explained how Whitebeard and Shanks split the sky, or how Big Meme and Kaido replicated that feat many chapters later. However Luffy vs Kaido, and Whitebeard's comments to Shanks about his duels with Mihawk still ringing in his ears imply that CoC greatly enhances the user's destructive capabilities. Now we know that CoC was involved, both on the Moby Dick and almost certainly in the Mihawk/Shanks duels. Thus, advanced CoC is not, in fact, an asspull.
I hope I've sufficiently made my case for why ch. 1033 was perfectly consistent with previous story events and exposition surrounding Haki as a power system.
TLDR; Zoro has CoC. This makes sense. Cope harder.
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https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/advanced-coc-discussion.11907/
An old post from the thread:
See the votes and you can see Lolo fans voting CoC is useless in top tier battles.
B
Tell that to Lolo and mihawk fans, they think Lolo won't have CoC which is why they were lowballing CoC and saying things like CoC is useless, Chinjao has it etc, and it's useless for getting stronger lmao.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/advanced-coc-discussion.11907/
See the votes and you can see Lolo fans voting CoC is useless in top tier battles.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/advanced-coc-discussion.11907/
See the votes and you can see Lolo fans voting CoC is useless in top tier battles.
@Rosella.Fiamingo @Jackteo and @Echizen_Jo_Ndule can fill the pacific ocean with just the salt they produced on this thread.
Its too much copium it must really hurt that they were incapable of seeing the hints oda left since sabaody archipelago but the zorotards did
Its too much copium it must really hurt that they were incapable of seeing the hints oda left since sabaody archipelago but the zorotards did
There is no such a thing ''Ad.CoC'' in the manga, it's just a fan made term that I used for my thread. It's still CoC.
CoC was never fodder control otherwise the Larines wouldn't shit themselves when Luffy used it, as well as WB wouldn't trust Pre-TS Luffy to lead the battle after seeing Luffy used CoC.
CoC was never fodder control otherwise the Larines wouldn't shit themselves when Luffy used it, as well as WB wouldn't trust Pre-TS Luffy to lead the battle after seeing Luffy used CoC.